416 réponses à ce sujet

[InfamousResult]

IIIMystIII wrote...

Maybe you should practice what you preach instead of being a walking definition for the term "Hypocrite". Pretty much the only reason people were screaming for nerfs in the first place was due to bruised egos on the scoreboard.

Except not at all?

A lot of the people who were saying that Tactical Cloak was unbalanced were some of the best players recognized on this board. And in fact, a lot of them played Infiltrators themselves, which is what lead them to realize that the class, and the power in-turn, were overpowered. If you actually paid attention to what people said, you'd realize that, instead of making brash generalizations.

But hey, I can play the presumptuous card, too! Here: "Pretty much the only reason people were screaming for nerf topics to shut up in the first place was due to the fact that they KNEW they sucked at the game and that they wouldn't be able to play on Gold any more if their Cruise Control class was taken down by any amount."

It sure is fun to assume things about people.

[Snoopy1955]

Kick In The Door wrote...

Snoopy1955 wrote...

 so, now instead of having 12 seconds to save a downed teammate who is across the map, I only have 10.

Yes, I can see how that is going to make me "more of a team player".

I will commit this to memory for the next time someone is on the boards howling about how they hate infiltrators because they aren't reviving as often as they are apparently supposed to.

The two second difference might not seem like much, but as I was already having to hope the person I just revived would be kind enough to revive me half of the time, as my cloak ran out just shy of getting them back up and I got shanked by a hunter, two seconds does make a difference. I'm going to have to cut back on rushing in to save peope who ran in or fell behind, and if I know these boards, those people will waste no time in coming over here and complaining that no one is playing the infiltrator properly.

I look forward to seeing just what the fallout of this turns out to be.

I agree. No more going out of my way for the pro nerfers, they die? Not my problem, I'm lookin' out for #1 from now on. 

I'm not even saying that I won't save people. Honestly, I have always specced my TC for durration instead of damage because having someone up who won't shatter if the enemy looks at them funny seemed like a better idea than my infiltrator trying to fill a damage role. I have always specced my infiltrator to do objectives and revive people, because early on, I discovered that bleeding out and being in spectator mode is not fun.

What upset me before was coming onto the boards to hear "infiltrators suck because they aren't reviving people and doing objectives", and now that infiltrators face the choice of reviving and doing objectives or going the damage route which is what they have always done before, I don't see an end to the "all the infiltrators that I play with suck because they aren't doing their jobs so all infiltrators suck" conversation.

Now when I see that kind of whining, I can say something witty, like "if only TC lasted an extra twoseconds, eh?"

[xtorma]

InfamousResult wrote...

IIIMystIII wrote...

Maybe you should practice what you preach instead of being a walking definition for the term "Hypocrite". Pretty much the only reason people were screaming for nerfs in the first place was due to bruised egos on the scoreboard.

Except not at all?

A lot of the people who were saying that Tactical Cloak was unbalanced were some of the best players recognized on this board. And in fact, a lot of them played Infiltrators themselves, which is what lead them to realize that the class, and the power in-turn, were overpowered. If you actually paid attention to what people said, you'd realize that, instead of making brash generalizations.

But hey, I can play the presumptuous card, too! Here: "Pretty much the only reason people were screaming for nerf topics to shut up in the first place was due to the fact that they KNEW they sucked at the game and that they wouldn't be able to play on Gold any more if their Cruise Control class was taken down by any amount."

It sure is fun to assume things about people.

funny how people never complained about the infils until the band wagon started. I wonder what we would find if we searched back on your posts and saw for ourselves when you first started bawling your eyes out.

[Snoopy1955]

IIIMystIII wrote...

Snoopy1955 wrote...

 so, now instead of having 12 seconds to save a downed teammate who is across the map, I only have 10.

Actually 5.20 seconds unless you are insane and take the duration upgrade.

I was already taking the durration upgrade, because it allowed me to run across rhe map, save someone and sometimes still be headed back to safety before it ran out. It obviously won't let me do that anymore, but at least this whole thing might deal with those players who would do risky things for points because they knew an infiltrator could save them.

[Ashen One]

Kick In The Door wrote...

IsilZhaSB wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

SneakyDuc wrote...

Nickle wrote...

Glad to see the people whining and having a tantrum have gotten their way. Gj bioware.

It wasn't a whining thing fact of the matter is Infiltrators were OP. I'm not for grey, but nothing should be able to quickly kill bosses on gold. And the duration shouldn't be a problem because most don't even bother to help regardless. Now you have to make a choice versatility or damage.

Yup. deffinitely NOT reviving YOU, nor am i going to risk MY neck to cap an objective YOU can do just the same!

And why should i bother trying to save you from the heavy? i'll just kill all the individual mobs enemies for you.

Happy now? You just pissed off the wrong sniper.

lol, bad teammate is bad.

Also whines about not being able to have high utility and massive damage at the same time anymore.

Yes, I play infiltrators and find this change quite reasonable.

I can see it now! Everyone running around trying to melee mobs to death because their abilities and weapons are no good.

Funny story, I respecced my GI back into a melee build because my Javelin X setup triggers a ridiculously high cooldown on cloak, thanks to the new duration and a Javelin now cannot OHK anything that a Widow can't.

There really is no reason to use a sniper rifle on an infiltrator other than the SI anymore.

[InfamousResult]

xtorma wrote...

funny how people never complained about the infils until the band wagon started. I wonder what we would find if we searched back on your posts and saw for ourselves when you first started bawling your eyes out.

You would see that I first started "bawling my eyes out" long before the focus on Tactical Cloak started. I did not "jump some band wagon"- I have always argued that TC was overpowered. If you want to scour all of my posts and prove me right, then please, feel free.

As for the general "band wagon", there WERE people who knew that TC was overpowered before this. But when the Krysae came out ( which was, itself, overpowered, and I believed both it AND the cloak should be balanced ), it made the difference between Tactical Cloak and other powers / classes in the game that much more obvious to people. It highlighted what was already an absolute fact. And that's what prompted people to take notice, and bring Bioware's attention to it.

[cuzIMgood]

Infiltrators are no where near dead. Hopefully there will be a little more diversity in classes though.

[Crusader75]

That's fine... I'll just NOT be the first one to run in to do objectives and revive, the rest can use their own medi-gel to revive themselves.

[xtorma]

InfamousResult wrote...

xtorma wrote...

funny how people never complained about the infils until the band wagon started. I wonder what we would find if we searched back on your posts and saw for ourselves when you first started bawling your eyes out.

You would see that I first started "bawling my eyes out" long before the focus on Tactical Cloak started. I did not "jump some band wagon"- I have always argued that TC was overpowered. If you want to scour all of my posts and prove me right, then please, feel free.

As for the general "band wagon", there WERE people who knew that TC was overpowered before this. But when the Krysae came out ( which was, itself, overpowered, and I believed both it AND the cloak should be balanced ), it made the difference between Tactical Cloak and other powers / classes in the game that much more obvious to people. It highlighted what was already an absolute fact. And that's what prompted people to take notice, and bring Bioware's attention to it.

 well i have a tissue for you. You can use it on your next crusade.

[InfamousResult]

Crusader75 wrote...

That's fine... I'll just NOT be the first one to run in to do objectives and revive, the rest can use their own medi-gel to revive themselves.

As long as you aren't just REFUSING to do objectives and revive people just because of this change, then fine.

It's not as if Infiltrators with Tactical Cloak turned on were the only ones who could use the "revive" or "hack" prompts. I only expect as much from you as I expect from the rest of my team.

[jaydubs67]

My MQI with grenade capacity III still bombs spawns like a champ. Barely noticed the TC changes at all.

I'll get back to you all on the sniper and duration specs, haven't played them yet.

[InfamousResult]

xtorma wrote...

 well i have a tissue for you. You can use it on your next crusade.

What a surprise. You offer absolutely no addition to any discussion, and every single post you're making is completely drenched in either brash generalizations or in spiteful assumptions. Any counter-argument you're faced with is brushed off because you don't have any real response, you simply take from the responses of people around you, even after you just accused other people of hopping a bandwagon.



..Wait, no. Not a surprise.

More like.. The opposite of surprise? Something that is not surprising at all..?

PREDICTABLE.

That's the word I was looking for. Predictable. You are actually being very predictable, thank you.

[Scudman_Alpha]

 actually this helps me now that i can make use of my utility human infiltrator without being ashamed of not getting any damage boost during it


if i want a cool damage boost i'll play human soldier with that adrenaline rush giving me 70% damage boost for 6 seconds with the evolution and being able to auto reload my gun..double claymore blast kills a phanton easily >

[IIIMystIII]

InfamousResult wrote...

Except not at all?

A lot of the people who were saying that Tactical Cloak was unbalanced were some of the best players recognized on this board. And in fact, a lot of them played Infiltrators themselves, which is what lead them to realize that the class, and the power in-turn, were overpowered. If you actually paid attention to what people said, you'd realize that, instead of making brash generalizations.

But hey, I can play the presumptuous card, too! Here: "Pretty much the only reason people were screaming for nerf topics to shut up in the first place was due to the fact that they KNEW they sucked at the game and that they wouldn't be able to play on Gold any more if their Cruise Control class was taken down by any amount."

It sure is fun to assume things about people.

Oh really? The BEST players? Well hell why didn't you say so! I must of forgot I care about what a few random loudmouths with a Youtube channel (because hell, not like they just give those out to anyone, right...?) think!

Seriously though, THAT's your argument? Heh. Well so be it I guess but the irony is the joke is on you; all the nerf did was destroy our ability to support other people. The actual ability to kill stuff that you lot were crying about in the first place is mostly unchanged, especially on gold where thanks to shield-gating, the changes end up mostly unnoticeable. If anything my score has gone up thanks to not feeling obliged to do objectives or risky revives anymore.

As an Infiltrator that actually liked supporting my team instead of gluing myself on a ledge and sniping all game, all the nerf did was turn me and any others like me in to yet another aloof, self-absorbed sniper. It bothers me but I suspect it is going to bother non-infiltrators a hell of a lot more when they have an outbreak of common sense and notice what that will mean.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

I'll just NOT be the first one to run in to do objectives and revive, the rest can use their own medi-gel to revive themselves.

"I got nerfed, so I'll take my rage out on other players."

Clearly, your logic is peerless. I'm not a fan of the nerfs myself, but even I'm not this much of a rage-ass.

[Danisthewalrus]

IIIMystIII wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

Except not at all?

A lot of the people who were saying that Tactical Cloak was unbalanced were some of the best players recognized on this board. And in fact, a lot of them played Infiltrators themselves, which is what lead them to realize that the class, and the power in-turn, were overpowered. If you actually paid attention to what people said, you'd realize that, instead of making brash generalizations.

But hey, I can play the presumptuous card, too! Here: "Pretty much the only reason people were screaming for nerf topics to shut up in the first place was due to the fact that they KNEW they sucked at the game and that they wouldn't be able to play on Gold any more if their Cruise Control class was taken down by any amount."

It sure is fun to assume things about people.

Oh really? The BEST players? Well hell why didn't you say so! I must of forgot I care about what a few random loudmouths with a Youtube channel (because hell, not like they just give those out to anyone, right...?) think!

Seriously though, THAT's your argument? Heh. Well so be it I guess but the irony is the joke is on you; all the nerf did was destroy our ability to support other people. The actual ability to kill stuff that you lot were crying about in the first place is mostly unchanged, especially on gold where thanks to shield-gating, the changes end up mostly unnoticeable. If anything my score has gone up thanks to not feeling obliged to do objectives or risky revives anymore.

As an Infiltrator that actually liked supporting my team instead of gluing myself on a ledge and sniping all game, all the nerf did was turn me and any others like me in to yet another aloof, self-absorbed sniper. It bothers me but I suspect it is going to bother non-infiltrators a hell of a lot more when they have an outbreak of common sense and notice what that will mean.

This x10.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Danisthewalrus wrote...

IIIMystIII wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

Except not at all?

A lot of the people who were saying that Tactical Cloak was unbalanced were some of the best players recognized on this board. And in fact, a lot of them played Infiltrators themselves, which is what lead them to realize that the class, and the power in-turn, were overpowered. If you actually paid attention to what people said, you'd realize that, instead of making brash generalizations.

But hey, I can play the presumptuous card, too! Here: "Pretty much the only reason people were screaming for nerf topics to shut up in the first place was due to the fact that they KNEW they sucked at the game and that they wouldn't be able to play on Gold any more if their Cruise Control class was taken down by any amount."

It sure is fun to assume things about people.

Oh really? The BEST players? Well hell why didn't you say so! I must of forgot I care about what a few random loudmouths with a Youtube channel (because hell, not like they just give those out to anyone, right...?) think!

Seriously though, THAT's your argument? Heh. Well so be it I guess but the irony is the joke is on you; all the nerf did was destroy our ability to support other people. The actual ability to kill stuff that you lot were crying about in the first place is mostly unchanged, especially on gold where thanks to shield-gating, the changes end up mostly unnoticeable. If anything my score has gone up thanks to not feeling obliged to do objectives or risky revives anymore.

As an Infiltrator that actually liked supporting my team instead of gluing myself on a ledge and sniping all game, all the nerf did was turn me and any others like me in to yet another aloof, self-absorbed sniper. It bothers me but I suspect it is going to bother non-infiltrators a hell of a lot more when they have an outbreak of common sense and notice what that will mean.

This x10.

x20. The duration nerf for people already specced for duration was a kick in the scrote.

[xtorma]

InfamousResult wrote...

xtorma wrote...

 well i have a tissue for you. You can use it on your next crusade.

What a surprise. You offer absolutely no addition to any discussion, and every single post you're making is completely drenched in either brash generalizations or in spiteful assumptions. Any counter-argument you're faced with is brushed off because you don't have any real response, you simply take from the responses of people around you, even after you just accused other people of hopping a bandwagon.



..Wait, no. Not a surprise.

More like.. The opposite of surprise? Something that is not surprising at all..?

PREDICTABLE.

That's the word I was looking for. Predictable. You are actually being very predictable, thank you.

Because you won , your crying has bared fruit. I'll discuss with you when you jump on the next bandwagon. the concert is over on this one.

[InfamousResult]

IIIMystIII wrote...

Seriously though, THAT's your argument?

Your argument was "I assume other players only cared about score".

But no, I am sure that has WAY more credibility to it than all the actual facts and statistics that have been brought up and debated over, and the accumulative data on Bioware's side that lead them to look into, and inevitably decide, that those same people you're bashing on ( me, included ) were, in fact, right. You are obviously raising some very compelling points as to why Tactical Cloak wasn't overpowered. That point being, again, because you "assume other players only cared about score".

Mm.

Very compelling.

And I reiterate: The nerf did exactly what it was intended to do. It stopped Infiltrators from being the "end-all, be-all" class. You can either choose to spec for duration and handle objectives and revives more easily, or spec for damage so you can kill enemies faster. This, of course, still allows you a longer amount of time than ANY other class to revive teammates / cap objectives relatively unharmed, even without speccing for duration, and you have just as much opportunity to do so as anybody else. Infiltrators have never been a requirement for a succesful Gold run.

But if you want to refuse to revive and capture objectives and actually make the game harder, not just for your team, but for yourself, be my guest. We will see how you feel about that in a week of reduced credit intake, when your objective timer runs out, or you're left alone during gold waves and are overwhelmed.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you can solo Gold all by yourself, and you never needed a team to begin with! Major pats on the back for you, if that's right.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

It also negated the utility of the Infiltrators that weren't total dorks. The duration nerf on top of everything else severely cuts objective-capping/medic viability. For players who were team-focused, like me, this is no big deal. For others, who were largely selfish in the first place, this not only has little real effect, but actually punished the fair users far more than the worst of the lot. Shotgun Spam and the like remain rampant, and - news flash - players like me are an unfortunate minority.

Hope you like selfish camp-happy infiltrators and assault infiltrators, because that's what this lopsided nerf just brought to the table.

[Cundu_Ertur]

Sweet, first wipe on wave 6 in ages. Four objectives. I'm the infiltrator, but guess what I die. 5.2 seconds is too short of a time to do objectives or revive. Hell, it's 3 seconds shorter than the original base duration.
The choice is between +40% damage, or being a team player. Name one other class that has to make that choice. ONE. Oh, you can't 'cause there isn't one.
This was too much of a nerf, and it was the wrong things. Two damage nerfs (total weapon buff +80 now not +90, and sniper rifle bonus 15% lower), and a duration nerf that makes the power useless for helping the team UNLESS you volunteer for a THIRD damage nerf with the duration increase.
Tell you what, give me a 5% bonus to credits earned and I'll take one in the shorts for the team and take the duration buff. Cause if I'm getting screwed, I'm d**n well getting paid for it. Otherwise, my interest in continuing with further expansions has dropped to nearly zero.
If this was a fix, it would have addressed the problem that weight means nothing.
This isn't a fix, it's a break.

[NucularPikinic]

There is more choice now, great. Hey, don't expect to see infiltrators cutting a swath of destruction as much anymore while also completing those darn NODE objectives.

Everyone contribute. NOW!

[InfamousResult]

Cundu_Ertur wrote...

The choice is between +40% damage, or being a team player. Name one other class that has to make that choice. ONE. Oh, you can't 'cause there isn't one.

Geth Engineer's Turret.

Asari Justicar's Biotic Sphere.

Any Biotic that can't self-detonate when choosing the Detonation ranks in their skill trees.

[bondiboy]

Cundu_Ertur wrote...

Sweet, first wipe on wave 6 in ages. Four objectives. I'm the infiltrator, but guess what I die. 5.2 seconds is too short of a time to do objectives or revive. Hell, it's 3 seconds shorter than the original base duration.
The choice is between +40% damage, or being a team player. Name one other class that has to make that choice. ONE. Oh, you can't 'cause there isn't one.
This was too much of a nerf, and it was the wrong things. Two damage nerfs (total weapon buff +80 now not +90, and sniper rifle bonus 15% lower), and a duration nerf that makes the power useless for helping the team UNLESS you volunteer for a THIRD damage nerf with the duration increase.
Tell you what, give me a 5% bonus to credits earned and I'll take one in the shorts for the team and take the duration buff. Cause if I'm getting screwed, I'm d**n well getting paid for it. Otherwise, my interest in continuing with further expansions has dropped to nearly zero.
If this was a fix, it would have addressed the problem that weight means nothing.
This isn't a fix, it's a break.

Lol You have to choose to be a team player ?

[IIIMystIII]

InfamousResult wrote...

Your argument was "I assume other players only cared about score".

But no, I am sure that has WAY more credibility to it than all the actual facts and statistics that have been brought up and debated over, and the accumulative data on Bioware's side that lead them to look into, and inevitably decide, that those same people you're bashing on ( me, included ) were, in fact, right. You are obviously raising some very compelling points as to why Tactical Cloak wasn't overpowered. That point being, again, because you "assume other players only cared about score".

Mm.

Very compelling.

And I reiterate: The nerf did exactly what it was intended to do. It stopped Infiltrators from being the "end-all, be-all" class. You can either choose to spec for duration and handle objectives and revives more easily, or spec for damage so you can kill enemies faster. This, of course, still allows you a longer amount of time than ANY other class to revive teammates / cap objectives relatively unharmed, even without speccing for duration, and you have just as much opportunity to do so as anybody else. Infiltrators have never been a requirement for a succesful Gold run.

But if you want to refuse to revive and capture objectives and actually make the game harder, not just for your team, but for yourself, be my guest. We will see how you feel about that in a week of reduced credit intake, when your objective timer runs out, or you're left alone during gold waves and are overwhelmed.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe you can solo Gold all by yourself, and you never needed a team to begin with! Major pats on the back for you, if that's right.

Whatever you got to tell yourself, buddy. You are not fooling anyone though.

No one was like "Damn the ability of Infiltrators to revive me in dangerous situations is so OP!" or "Nerf the ability for Infiltrators to capture things easier. It is making things too convenient for me!". The only thing people were sore about was the Infiltrator's ability to get a higher score then they could. Guess what? That hasn't changed in any significant way. The only time I even notice the damage nerf is killing bigger enemies but again, that is more of a teamwork thing. I can still cloak and bail from a dangerous enemy far easier then anyone else so even that is more of a problem for other classes then it is for me.

You can call people that just happen to agree with you "the best" or call anecdotes that go along with your way of thinking as "facts" all you want but what confuses me is that for someone that has a pretty large axe to grind with Infiltrators you are actually championing this nerf. You can try the "I don't care about score" bit all you want but again, no one is going to buy it. People don't cry for nerfs because they dislike other classes supporting them. You and every other nerf-cryer didn't like the ability for us to get higher scores then you. Well we still can. All that really changed was our ability to help our team.

If you cannot comprehend why that is a pretty big deal in a co-op game then I really don't know what to tell you.

Modifié par IIIMystIII, 27 juin 2012 - 03:57 .