252 réponses à ce sujet

[Lord Rosario]

Psycho Pisces wrote...

Bolo Xia wrote...

Psycho Pisces wrote...

*SNIP* for length... Insert men flinching here.

so since i dont play infiltrator often should i stop reviving and doing objectives too?
based on how i dont have TC at all, by what your argument is i shouldnt revive or do objectives at all.

basically when i run into goofy teammates taking your advice i will just suicide everytime.
why should i team play when someone is being butthurt over a nerf?

oh and btw i dont run into many infiltrators that actually do the disable objectives anyways so it wont be really anything new.

I was being sarcastic,  Everyone demanding the Infiltrator fulfill all roles... Since they had tactical cloak, logically that meant they had medic duty...

Since they had tactical cloak, logically that meant that while running across the ENTIRE MAP to pick up some n00b going rambo in gold.. They obviously had time to cap all 4 objectives at the same time... an if they didn't they failed as infiltrator.  

This constant whining and demanding made a LOT of us do a few things that made people still complain.   On top of rezing people, capping objectives, and crowd control (Krysae)... We found ways to excell at our jobs and that made everying cry more. 

[1] IF this were PVP I could UNDERSTAND the pitiful crying about how OP Infiltrator was, but no this is co-op.. We're all suppose to work as a team.   Now Infiltrators are expected to give up their damage bonus, spec for longer duration for less damange and STILL fill all those roles expected of us. 

I can top the score board with ease on bronze, silver, and sometimes gold..  Even after the nerf.   [2] However IF I'm going to be a team player, I have to sacrifice MY fun becuase someone cried I was enjoying a game.  

I get to make that choice now, do I spec for damage an take down the tough enemies... Or do I spec for duration and snipe the trash Enemies for points while tagging ops..   It was less than 6 hours before people started crying the nerf didn't go far enough... Those [3] people are NEVER happy so long as someone else higher on the scoreboard, even if that scoreboard is truly meaningless.  

[1] Oh look, this arguement again.. Look, there has been balance in single player, co-op, and pvp games since table top D&D. Stop the "It's co-op, it shouldnt matter if something is op" arguement.

[2] So have fun and stop worrying what others think. You baught the game to have fun, not to please others, right? If that's what you like, play the damage dealing guy instead of the sneeky objective guy. Also, other classes don't have Tactical Cloak but somehow, they get allong fine helping out team mates and being team players, so that shouldn't sto you. You seem really bright, I'm sure you can figure out ways to be helpful.

[3] Bold says it all. No matter what, there will be some people who aren't happy. That's their issue.

[Edit] Sorry it looks like I picked appart your post and only chose certain parts to reply to, but if you know me, then you know I can go on and on on a post and write a novel in reply. Didn't want to do that. No one reads the whole novel.

Modifié par Lord Rosario, 27 juin 2012 - 06:48 .

[Psycho Pisces]

Lord Rosario wrote...

[1] Oh look, this arguement again.. Look, there has been balance in single player, co-op, and pvp games since table top D&D. Stop the "It's co-op, it shouldnt matter if something is op" arguement.

[2] So have fun and stop worrying what others think. You baught the game to have fun, not to please others, right? If that's what you like, play the damage dealing guy instead of the sneeky objective guy. Also, other classes don't have Tactical Cloak but somehow, they get allong fine helping out team mates and being team players, so that shouldn't sto you. You seem really bright, I'm sure you can figure out ways to be helpful.

[3] Bold says it all. No matter what, there will be some people who aren't happy. That's their issue.

We wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place, if people hadn't cried to the devs that the mean mean infiltrators beat them.. Now would we? 

[Voorhees88]

amen

[Sovereign24]

Considering that a majority of people used TC primarily for the damage boost, nerfing duration (unless you take duration evolution) made sense.

[Lord Rosario]

Psycho Pisces wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

[1] Oh look, this arguement again.. Look, there has been balance in single player, co-op, and pvp games since table top D&D. Stop the "It's co-op, it shouldnt matter if something is op" arguement.

[2] So have fun and stop worrying what others think. You baught the game to have fun, not to please others, right? If that's what you like, play the damage dealing guy instead of the sneeky objective guy. Also, other classes don't have Tactical Cloak but somehow, they get allong fine helping out team mates and being team players, so that shouldn't sto you. You seem really bright, I'm sure you can figure out ways to be helpful.

[3] Bold says it all. No matter what, there will be some people who aren't happy. That's their issue.

We wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place, if people hadn't cried to the devs that the mean mean infiltrators beat them.. Now would we? 

Lets be honest with ourselves, the infiltrator class needed some tweaking. High score means nothing, but better tech than engineers, better firepower than a sodier, better survivability than a sentinal, more in your face than a vanguard, and fast recharge speed with any weapon is just a tad too much.. It outshines all the classes in their best areas.

I play infiltrator, and I am proud to play it for duration and support, as I always have. Don't need to do everything to make myself feel warm and fuzzy. I get that feeling when everyone in my team is thanking me for saving their virtual lives at the end of the match.

[Psycho Pisces]

Sovereign24 wrote...

Considering that a majority of people used TC primarily for the damage boost, nerfing duration (unless you take duration evolution) made sense.

I think gradually toning it down through some field testing would have been better, and more accepted in the community.. Like they are gradually decreasing the "weight" setting on certain weapons.   Half the current adjustment would have been a very good stepping stone to see how well it affected the dynamic with the teams during missions.  

A big change is hard for players to accept readily, small changes are easier to accept and adjust to.  

In a week or two, people will have moved on.. We'll have a new weapon to cry about, and then we can start ranting an raving about a new class or something... in the meantime, the team balance is unbalanced and players aren't really feeling like working together. 

Thats the bigger problem in this game, people thinking they can just zerg by themselves and   everyone else just serves to get in their way.  That is what creates these big blowups on the forums and generates these adjustments.    Other peoples "Fun" getting in the way of these other players.   

It'll work itself out, the people who originally complained will find something new to complain about.. an those affected by these changes will adapt and do better than before.  Heck My score hasn't changed much since the change.. All its added is a level of frustration about duration when I'm not firing a krysae.    If anything it encourages me to use the Krysae more.. 

An I just don't like that weapon, I like the feel of a lining up a nice shot and popping heads off of cerberus... An the "Right shot" can take longer than "4 seconds" because of movement.  

[Psycho Pisces]

Lord Rosario wrote...

Psycho Pisces wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

[1] Oh look, this arguement again.. Look, there has been balance in single player, co-op, and pvp games since table top D&D. Stop the "It's co-op, it shouldnt matter if something is op" arguement.

[2] So have fun and stop worrying what others think. You baught the game to have fun, not to please others, right? If that's what you like, play the damage dealing guy instead of the sneeky objective guy. Also, other classes don't have Tactical Cloak but somehow, they get allong fine helping out team mates and being team players, so that shouldn't sto you. You seem really bright, I'm sure you can figure out ways to be helpful.

[3] Bold says it all. No matter what, there will be some people who aren't happy. That's their issue.

We wouldn't be having this discussion in the first place, if people hadn't cried to the devs that the mean mean infiltrators beat them.. Now would we? 

Lets be honest with ourselves, the infiltrator class needed some tweaking. High score means nothing, but better tech than engineers, better firepower than a sodier, better survivability than a sentinal, more in your face than a vanguard, and fast recharge speed with any weapon is just a tad too much.. It outshines all the classes in their best areas.

I play infiltrator, and I am proud to play it for duration and support, as I always have. Don't need to do everything to make myself feel warm and fuzzy. I get that feeling when everyone in my team is thanking me for saving their virtual lives at the end of the match.

Oh I agree, the infiltrator needed adjustments to be sure.. But MY  prefered approach to change is incremental.. That is my biggest beef.. I can get over everything else.    My timing is screwed up, and I feel more rushed in game... Thats the biggest challenge to me.  I liked to line up the shots, it just felt ... FUN that way. 

[Princess Rolf]

Finnegone wrote...

The nerf was unwarranted. No one complained about TC until the Krysae hit the scene. You either failed to identify or failed to admit that the root cause of the problem remains a single weapon, and not this particular power. When inflitrators were limited to single targets, you managed to keep score with them well enough

And don't be fooled, pro-nerfers, by the predominance of your self-congratulatory threads. You're as well organized (not to mention passionate - or single minded, depending on your perspective) as the Tea Party; that's it. Most players (many of whom do not, nor will ever, post here) are not on your side

/So damn signed it hurts!

[heybigmoney]

The most overpowered classes in the game are now slightly less yet still overpowered.

Chill out...

[BjornDaDwarf]

Psycho Pisces wrote...


Oh I agree, the infiltrator needed adjustments to be sure.. But MY  prefered approach to change is incremental.

But what if this change is incremental and there's more to come .

[Psycho Pisces]

BjornDaDwarf wrote...

Psycho Pisces wrote...


Oh I agree, the infiltrator needed adjustments to be sure.. But MY  prefered approach to change is incremental.

But what if this change is incremental and there's more to come .

Well then,  Bioware better replace the insertion shuttle with a short yellow school bus then.   

BIG adjustments are a quick way to drive off the community, and this commmunity is more fickle than any I've been a part of so far.  

[L.ast L.ife]

heybigmoney wrote...

The most overpowered classes in the game are now slightly less yet still overpowered.

Chill out...

Small world lulz.

I'm the QFE you were playing with earlier tonight.  I appreciated you speeding things up AND helping out with objectives.  Rather shocking considering the pugs I usually run into out in the wild.  It was fun watching someone else do all the work for a change.  After all I knew you were testing out the nerf so I had no qualm watching you destroy everything.

[BjornDaDwarf]

Psycho Pisces wrote...

Well then,  Bioware better replace the insertion shuttle with a short yellow school bus then.   

BIG adjustments are a quick way to drive off the community, and this commmunity is more fickle than any I've been a part of so far.  

I was really just making a funny.

Seriously, I think you can also make an arguement that with something as contentious as this, making the right cut once hurts less.  Imagine if they dribbled out three nerfs over the course of three weeks.  The drama and fighting over it would never quit.  An entire month of nothing but Infil threads. 

[CmdrPwn]

I just reset my salarian infiltrator with duration instead of damage and I didn't notice much difference. But with my male quarian infiltrator I use a claymore and only have rank 4 damage in tactical cloak and it doesn't work so well anymore.

[lpconfig]

Other skills that classes spec for choose between one form of functionality or the other when you do the 4th, 5th, and 6th evolutions. They make them work in a fundamentally different manner.

Now, TC can be specced to do good damage, OR as a more of a utility oriented thing. Optional evolutions make the power work in a fundamentally different manner. Duration evolution used to be next to useless, now its actually a choice worthy of some consideration.

[rcolol]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

landylan wrote...

yajuu, they didnt destroy it. 4 seconds is a very long time to aim

But NOT time to revive someone, cap an objective, escape from enemies or ANYTHING else.
they made it so TC is only useful for cloak -> shoot. players.

That's the point of the nerf. To make players choose between having increased utility and survivability (when the cloak actually decides to work) or the freshly nerfed damage bonuses.

So basically, use a shotgun and ignore the objectives/dying squad mates. amirite?

This.

The nerf is a complete balance. It pretty much backs the saying, you can't have your cake and eat it too.

If Duration is having the cake, and damage is eating it, you have to pick one. Its balance.

[COLZ7R]

Unfortunatlly around 90% of people who play infs will have no idea what just happened as they dont come near these forums, some of them will just say "screw it" and the player base will shrink even more, personally i couldnt give a ****, i will just play how i want, and screw everyone else, thats the nerfer mentality and i will happily adopt it

[Hexi-decimal]

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

Olaf_de_IJsbeer wrote...

Yajuu Omoi wrote...

landylan wrote...

yajuu, they didnt destroy it. 4 seconds is a very long time to aim

But NOT time to revive someone, cap an objective, escape from enemies or ANYTHING else.
they made it so TC is only useful for cloak -> shoot. players.

It still is useful for reviving players or doing objectives if you pick duration over damage.

No longer shall Infiltrators be the master race.

We never WERE the "master class" we were a support class! We took down heavies wuickly so you didn't have to worry as you destroyed the mobs, and we revived you when you fell, heck, we cap'd those ranfomly placed activation objective for you so you didn't need to expose yourself from cover.

INFILTRATORS DID THEIR JOBS.

And now we can't even do one of those things. The duration keeps us from caping the objective undetected, and the dmg redux stops us from saving you from the heavies.

You're seriously happy about that??

ehhh, with the advent of the Krysae an infiltrator could literally do EVERYTHING any class could (most times better) and few things it took multiple players to accomplish.  

AoE damage?  Check
Single Target Spike Dmg?  Check
Capping objectives?  Check
Rezzing folks in hot spots or across the map?  Check
CC?  Check
Range damage?  Check
Melee Damage?  Check


About the only thing they couldn't do is tank well, of course there is no point to tanking  if everything is dead. 
Did they deserve a nerf?  I think so, and I think this one was just about right.

You may not get ridiculous burst off of speccing for utility, but you are far far from without being able to do burst damage.  SI still have prox mine which is amazing for team synergy, as do GI.  QMI have Arc Grenade and Tac scan.  QFI have Sabatoge still.  You still can dish out damage and a lot of it.  You may not get as MUCH from TC but you still get a significant damage boost.  That combined with these other things and you can still hurt stuff plenty.

Sorry, you precieved idea of a Infiltrators job incorrectly.  It Was never to be able to annihilate all the little guys better than anyone else, annihilate all the bigs guys better than anyone else, cap every objective and revive everyone better than everyone else all at the same time.

You were not supposed to be the lynch pin in every group.  You are still effective.  You can still do everything you could before, you just have to be careful and smart about it now.

Modifié par Hexi-decimal, 27 juin 2012 - 07:33 .

[Princess Rolf]

Creighton72 wrote...

Ha nerfed, buffed, if you can play you can play. Look don't forget about gear, people complained about the Infiltraitor pre gear, now you can add an op package or a Sniper Amp rail 5 or whatever level gear you have. Infiltraitor speced for damage with a Level 4 sniper Amp rail, level 4 ammo, level 4 power amp, and level 5 Sniper amp rail gear is going to be insane. If you have all that stuff. Between all the new level 4 stuff and the gear is he really losing anything? Deck him out right and he is still a killing machine. Now if I could just get more freakin gear, new Valiant today so, I am happy. 8 more should only take my like a year or two, to get it to 10.

Because only the Infils benefit from gear, riiiight....

[DHKany]

yeah dealing out 2 1500 dmg+ proxy mines on my GI in one cloak cycle didn't seem quite fair. glad for the change. Now you get the choice between burst damage that is still higher than AR, or be the objective infiltrator. Great changes from what I see.

[heybigmoney]

L.ast L.ife wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

The most overpowered classes in the game are now slightly less yet still overpowered.

Chill out...

Small world lulz.

I'm the QFE you were playing with earlier tonight.  I appreciated you speeding things up AND helping out with objectives.  Rather shocking considering the pugs I usually run into out in the wild.  It was fun watching someone else do all the work for a change.  After all I knew you were testing out the nerf so I had no qualm watching you destroy everything.

Nice playing with you dude!

And lol sorry for the kill whoring.  I usually don't play infiltrators several games in a row but as you said i was testing out builds/weps and whatnot.  Wanted to see how far i could push his offense and the nerfs haven't really slowed him down much at all.  

Sick QFE skills by the way.  I can't make her work half as well as you can.  What's your build?

[L.ast L.ife]

heybigmoney wrote...

L.ast L.ife wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

The most overpowered classes in the game are now slightly less yet still overpowered.

Chill out...

Small world lulz.

I'm the QFE you were playing with earlier tonight.  I appreciated you speeding things up AND helping out with objectives.  Rather shocking considering the pugs I usually run into out in the wild.  It was fun watching someone else do all the work for a change.  After all I knew you were testing out the nerf so I had no qualm watching you destroy everything.

Nice playing with you dude!

And lol sorry for the kill whoring.  I usually don't play infiltrators several games in a row but as you said i was testing out builds/weps and whatnot.  Wanted to see how far i could push his offense and the nerfs haven't really slowed him down much at all.  

Sick QFE skills by the way.  I can't make her work half as well as you can.  What's your build?

Agreed.  Anyone who's spent a bit of time with the class would realize on paper the damage nerf did very little to hurt its offensive capabilities.  Snipers might be the only exception though I doubt it's god awful.  It's the duration hit combined with the overwhelmingly selfish pugs I run into that disappoints me.  I waste enough of medi-gel and cobras ensuring games continue/complete in those situations as it is.

My QFE build in those games was the traditional 6/6/6/5/3 workhorse build for casters. 

Turret: Damage & Shields, Armor-Piercing, Rocket.
Incinerate: Radius, DoT, Armor
Cryo: Duration, Slow, Armor
Passives: Both Power Damage
Fitness: Gettin' rid of the loose change

It was my first time testing out the buffs, but man were they DELICIOUS.  Rocket Turret is ridiculously good now, but I really miss the CQC and stagger capabilities of the Flamethrower.  I spam mine like crazy so the lack of durability isn't an issue for me.  I got sick of Phantoms eating rockets for breakfast REAL quick.  The only reason I was rolling with a Phaeston is because I WANT MY GOD DAMN HARRIER. D;

Modifié par L.ast L.ife, 27 juin 2012 - 08:02 .

[IanLai]

they nerfed the infiltrator but they can't make other class usable on gold
especially many class broken after the patch. projectile power like asari adept warp throw can't hit enemy while enemy don't need dodge vanguard charge bug, it is meaningless to nerf infiltrator when half of the class still unplayable

[heybigmoney]

L.ast L.ife wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

L.ast L.ife wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

The most overpowered classes in the game are now slightly less yet still overpowered.

Chill out...

Small world lulz.

I'm the QFE you were playing with earlier tonight.  I appreciated you speeding things up AND helping out with objectives.  Rather shocking considering the pugs I usually run into out in the wild.  It was fun watching someone else do all the work for a change.  After all I knew you were testing out the nerf so I had no qualm watching you destroy everything.

Nice playing with you dude!

And lol sorry for the kill whoring.  I usually don't play infiltrators several games in a row but as you said i was testing out builds/weps and whatnot.  Wanted to see how far i could push his offense and the nerfs haven't really slowed him down much at all.  

Sick QFE skills by the way.  I can't make her work half as well as you can.  What's your build?

Agreed.  Anyone who's spent a bit of time with the class would realize on paper the damage nerf did very little to hurt its offensive capabilities.  Snipers might be the only exception though I doubt it's god awful.  It's the duration hit combined with the overwhelmingly selfish pugs I run into that disappoints me.  I waste enough of medi-gel and cobras ensuring games continue/complete in those situations as it is.

My QFE build in those games was the traditional 6/6/6/5/3 workhorse build for casters. 

Turret: Damage & Shields, Armor-Piercing, Rocket.
Incinerate: Radius, DoT, Armor
Cryo: Duration, Slow, Armor
Passives: Both Power Damage
Fitness: Gettin' rid of the loose change

It was my first time testing out the buffs, but man were they DELICIOUS.  Rocket Turret is ridiculously good now, but I really miss the CQC and stagger capabilities of the Flamethrower.  I spam mine like crazy so the lack of durability isn't an issue for me.  I got sick of Phantoms eating rockets for breakfast REAL quick.  The only reason I was rolling with a Phaeston is because I WANT MY GOD DAMN HARRIER. D;

Well the changes were mostly influenced by the BALANCE ALL THE THINGS thread on here so its very likely that snipers will get buffed in the next few weeks.  Sniper bonuses were cut down a little so they could buff rifle dmg and make them more viable on non infiltrators.  

Thanks for the build.  I'll have to give that a try with my harrier 2...

[L.ast L.ife]

heybigmoney wrote...

L.ast L.ife wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

L.ast L.ife wrote...

heybigmoney wrote...

The most overpowered classes in the game are now slightly less yet still overpowered.

Chill out...

Small world lulz.

I'm the QFE you were playing with earlier tonight.  I appreciated you speeding things up AND helping out with objectives.  Rather shocking considering the pugs I usually run into out in the wild.  It was fun watching someone else do all the work for a change.  After all I knew you were testing out the nerf so I had no qualm watching you destroy everything.

Nice playing with you dude!

And lol sorry for the kill whoring.  I usually don't play infiltrators several games in a row but as you said i was testing out builds/weps and whatnot.  Wanted to see how far i could push his offense and the nerfs haven't really slowed him down much at all.  

Sick QFE skills by the way.  I can't make her work half as well as you can.  What's your build?

Agreed.  Anyone who's spent a bit of time with the class would realize on paper the damage nerf did very little to hurt its offensive capabilities.  Snipers might be the only exception though I doubt it's god awful.  It's the duration hit combined with the overwhelmingly selfish pugs I run into that disappoints me.  I waste enough of medi-gel and cobras ensuring games continue/complete in those situations as it is.

My QFE build in those games was the traditional 6/6/6/5/3 workhorse build for casters. 

Turret: Damage & Shields, Armor-Piercing, Rocket.
Incinerate: Radius, DoT, Armor
Cryo: Duration, Slow, Armor
Passives: Both Power Damage
Fitness: Gettin' rid of the loose change

It was my first time testing out the buffs, but man were they DELICIOUS.  Rocket Turret is ridiculously good now, but I really miss the CQC and stagger capabilities of the Flamethrower.  I spam mine like crazy so the lack of durability isn't an issue for me.  I got sick of Phantoms eating rockets for breakfast REAL quick.  The only reason I was rolling with a Phaeston is because I WANT MY GOD DAMN HARRIER. D;

Well the changes were mostly influenced by the BALANCE ALL THE THINGS thread on here so its very likely that snipers will get buffed in the next few weeks.  Sniper bonuses were cut down a little so they could buff rifle dmg and make them more viable on non infiltrators.  

Thanks for the build.  I'll have to give that a try with my harrier 2...

Lucky bastard. 

My only gripe with the build is it's a little too defensive/campy for my taste (I got tired of babysitting the turret which is essential as it is prone to magically run of out rockets), but probably ideal for trolling spawns with a Striker/Falcon/Scorpion.  I'm thinking of dropping my current line up for Cryo in favor of Radius, DMG and the combo freeze.  See if that suits my needs a little better without having to resort to equipping something else to entirely.  I prefer my cooldown above 150% so I can spam Incindy with impunity.  I'm sick to death of heavy pistols at the moment.

As for the nerf, well, we'll see how it pans out.  For now I can't say I'm a fan of the changes or current direction in general.  Regardless I hope our paths cross again in the future.  It was a pleasure playing with you. ;D

Modifié par L.ast L.ife, 27 juin 2012 - 08:34 .