248 réponses à ce sujet

[NKKKK]

Xellith wrote...

NKKKK wrote...

tybbiesniffer wrote...

I didn't choose synthesis before the EC because I found it horrifying. After discussing it a little more with the catalyst in the EC, it seems even worse. I've never been a big fan of the idea that uniformity is good.

I didn't realize they were all dressed in red and marching down Earth? I saw all the species still being their respective selves.

And that is one of the main points as to why synthesis fails.  People will always be people.  They will always find a reason to kill each other.  But the whole "organics need protecting" thing kinda goes out the window since there would be no more organics either.  Would the catalyst then start caring about the survival of the Synergised?  He was originally designed to keep a balance between organics and synthetics. 

With Organics gone and synthetics being able to be rebuilt - his solution was fixed by allowing synthetics to survive and removing the organic component.

There would still be wars and whatnot. 

Regardless of what a cutscene shows - to me its just something they never sat down and actually thought about for more than 30 seconds.

Exactly wars can still happen, The Yahg can still become a threat and what not.

[dgcatanisiri]

BrookerT wrote...

Would be bad if not for EDIs voice-over, its effectively become my Cannon ending because of this.
"I am alive" . . . excuse me, man tears ;_;

Yeah, synthesis was unsettling for a couple of things (the husk gaining awareness, the krogan will glowing green eyes...), but EDI's voiceover was not one of them.

I still prefer destroy simply because I understand what I'm doing in that case, and I think that EDI and the geth would willingly sacrifice themselves if it meant that the Reapers were destroyed, but EDI's voiceover and the memorial scene where she hugs the LI at least make synthesis heartwarming for me.

[chaos_Shadow15]

Tekkez wrote...
Destory is fine by me. All the races can keep their uniqueness and keep going on with life as if it was pre-Reaper once everything is fixed.

By performing genocide on two races.

The fact is, none of the endings can be objectively qualified as morally correct. Each ending results in you either comitting genocide, controlling others' wills, or abruptly altering their biological makeup. There is no right ending.

I still maintain that Synthesis is the better evil, however. If you outright distrust the Catalyst, then you can't be sure of anything, sure. But if you believe what the Catalyst says, then Synthesis is truly the only way to create understanding and avoid any future war between organics and synthetics.

And really, if you've seen the ending, I don't know how you can write it off. Society ends up ascending into this zen-like status where understanding is second nature and war and other petty quarrels are transcended into a true peace paradigm.

Modifié par chaos_Shadow15, 27 juin 2012 - 12:34 .

[anonymous137]

Is it possible the Husks are not only aware now, but also the people they were are aware of themselves once again? I have trouble thinking of something more horrific than "waking up" to discover that not only am I not me anymore but I've been put into some corpse-like shell. Even worse if they retain any memory of what they did while controlled by the reapers. Even more reason not to choose synthesis.

[Youmu]

chaos_Shadow15 wrote...

And really, if you've seen the ending, I don't know how you can write it off. Society ends up ascending into this zen-like status where understanding is second nature and war and other petty quarrels are transcended into a true peace society.

But everyone gets creepy-glowy eyes and circuitboard skin :<

[GenericUserName9]

I wonder how the Husks feel.

[Sylvianus]

Eeer no. You just choose to destroy the reapers, no matter what is the cost. It was your job since the beginning, this is what was asked to your shep. There's no genocide, you don't do a genocide just because you choose to kill something that wants to kill you and you don't have much choice for the lives at stake.

The other choices  aren't at all just about destroying the reapers, it is also about to rewrite the people because you thought so lol, or to control the universe, which is absolutely wrong and not at all morally equal.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 27 juin 2012 - 12:36 .

[chaos_Shadow15]

Sylvianus wrote...

Eeer no. You just choose to destroy the reapers, no matter what is the cost. It was your job since the beginning, this is what was asked to your shep. There's no genocide, you don't do a genocide just because you choose to kill something that wants to kill you and you don't have much choice for the lives at stake.

No, it's genocide. Have you played the Mass Effect series at all? Throughout the trilogy we come to learn that synthetic life like the Reapers and the Geth are almost no different from organic life in that they can feel and they can be self aware. If you chose to keep the Geth in ME3 and if you have ever had a conversation with EDI.... ever, you'll see the solidification of that ideal.

The fact is, the Reapers and the Geth are sentient and self aware species. You wipe that out completely by choosing the Destroy option. I'm sorry, but it can't be justified as morally "correct". None of the endings can completely be justified as correct.

Modifié par chaos_Shadow15, 27 juin 2012 - 12:51 .

[Halo Quea]

Synthesis will ALWAYS be the immoral choice.

What the Catalyst is literally saying to Shepard is that once everyone is the same, we'll finally have peace. That diversity of life, even diversity of intelligence or understanding is intolerable. That we must all share the same dna, the same ideals, perhaps even the same thought process to be able to understand and respect each other.

What Shepard fails (yet again) to explain to the Catalyst is that his solution robs the ENTIRE galaxy of what it does naturally. And this is the OTHER reason why Synthesis is a flawed solution. The galaxy WILL NOT stop creating new life forms, because the galaxy doesn't care about synthesis, or control or destruction. The galaxy doesn't care about chaos OR solutions.

So what happens when NEW non-synthesized life forms begin to spring up? Will synthesized beings go to war with them? Will they offer synthesis to them when they reach a certain point in their civilizations' development? Will they even have a choice? And if not................how would that make the synthesized beings any different from the Reapers?

[Strelsky]

It will end in overpopulation. The strengths of both, the weaknesses of neither. Synthetics are immortal (the will not die of "natural causes") both synthetics and organics need energy in the form of food or fuel, reproduction will likely continue and they will eventually run out of resources. "It is inevitable"

Modifié par Strelsky, 27 juin 2012 - 01:07 .

[OutlawTorn6806]

Funny how some people love Synthesis and some people hate it. It almost as if some of these choices were not meant for all?! How shocking! A game gives you options that you can hate!? Must totally be a sign of poor writing. /sarcasm.

[Sylvianus]

chaos_Shadow15 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Eeer no. You just choose to destroy the reapers, no matter what is the cost. It was your job since the beginning, this is what was asked to your shep. There's no genocide, you don't do a genocide just because you choose to kill something that wants to kill you and you don't have much choice for the lives at stake.

No, it's genocide. Have you played the Mass Effect series at all? Throughout the trilogy we come to learn that synthetic life like the Reapers and the Geth are almost no different from organic life in that they can feel and they can be self aware. If you chose to keep the Geth in ME3 and if you have ever had a conversation with EDI.... ever, you'll see the solidification of that ideal.

The fact is, the Reapers and the Geth are sentient and self aware species. You wipe that out completely by choosing the Destroy option. I'm sorry, but it can't be justified as morally "correct". None of the endings can completely be justified as correct.

It's a genocide, yes,  and it's sad and infortunate, I don't disagree here, but no you don't decide to do a genocide if you want to destroy the reapers....That's just a consequence. You have just no choice othen then to destroy the reapers ( other choices are morally wrong and disgusting, you can only blame yourself ). So, the only thing I can blame myself was the consequences but i didn't do exactly something wrong. My mission was to destroy the reapers and to save the organics, the galaxy. This a war, there must be victims.  This is what I did.

But with the control and synthesis option, you don't even destroy the reapers, but even you choose to rewrite every species, ( and you do exactly the same as the reapers, species don't have their choice, you choose for them what they will become, what they must be because you want " no more chaos " . And yet, Shep has sworn to protect these organics. Yes I saw the synthesis ending but it didn't make any sense anyways, space magic ) or to control universe with the same reapers which were killing billions people a while before.

All choices were bad, but not morally equal.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 27 juin 2012 - 01:24 .

[shakey123]

The reason why everyone is smiling in synthesis is that the green flowing around their bodies is actually very potent sensi.

[Poritolka]

Synthesis is still filled with unethical Space Magic. They really needed to re-tool that option, but instead, they made it the ending that yields the best results.

[Lennyoh]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who found Synthesis wrong. I knew it was wrong from the start but seeing the extended version, it still feels wrong. You're changing EVERYONE in the galaxy to be exactly the same. Everyone is now on the exact same path of progression instead of their own. You're essentially killing the diversity of the galaxy. And who the heck does star child think he is to say that we're ready for this? He says synthesis will eventually happen. If it will happen then let it happen naturally, not force it through the crucible. Who knows the consequences of forcing such a change in everyone. Really I think Control is just about the only good ending there is now since you've left everyone and everything alone as it was, only now the Reapers are under Shepard's control and leaving everyone be, heck even helping them. Heck with Synthesis

[OutlawTorn6806]

Poritolka wrote...

Synthesis is still filled with unethical Space Magic. They really needed to re-tool that option, but instead, they made it the ending that yields the best results.

I disagree, red IMO had the best results. See how we can disagree?

[Drumsmasher]

I would use it, imagine what you could do with it! You would basically be yourself, but you would have much more capability.

You would basically have a computer in your head, and you wouldn't need tools. Everyone's complaining, but you could be who you would want to be.

Why does everybody have such a problem with it? It's just a tool, it's not like we all become terminators or something.


Also, I did pick destroy, because it felt the best.

Modifié par Drumsmasher, 27 juin 2012 - 01:29 .

[Balek-Vriege]

Halo Quea wrote...

Synthesis will ALWAYS be the immoral choice.

What the Catalyst is literally saying to Shepard is that once everyone is the same, we'll finally have peace. That diversity of life, even diversity of intelligence or understanding is intolerable. That we must all share the same dna, the same ideals, perhaps even the same thought process to be able to understand and respect each other.

What Shepard fails (yet again) to explain to the Catalyst is that his solution robs the ENTIRE galaxy of what it does naturally. And this is the OTHER reason why Synthesis is a flawed solution. The galaxy WILL NOT stop creating new life forms, because the galaxy doesn't care about synthesis, or control or destruction. The galaxy doesn't care about chaos OR solutions.

So what happens when NEW non-synthesized life forms begin to spring up? Will synthesized beings go to war with them? Will they offer synthesis to them when they reach a certain point in their civilizations' development? Will they even have a choice? And if not................how would that make the synthesized beings any different from the Reapers?

This was harder to debate before the EC, but none of the slides show any evidence of this total lack of diversity.  Krogans, Quarians are shown rebuilding their civilizations based on their own cultures, Krogan kids are still Krogan kids.  Individualism still exists and with that comes diversity of thought and ideals.  That means there's most likely going to be conflict, but not genocidal Organic vs. Synthetic conflict.  It's not that diversity was elminated, but everyone was given unifying understanding and ability.

So much so and as hinted by EDI's words, that true technological singularity and possibly ascendance, is possible.  Good luck "ascending" in any other ending.


The non synthesized life is a good question.  The fact is all life from AIs, Organics and the primordial goo they came from had been Synthesized.  Meaning it will be millions, if not billions of years before any new intelligent life doesn't have Synthesis.  By that point those pockets of life will probably be "infected" with synthesis or synthesis life will be long gone because of technological or evolutionary advancement/ascendance.

None of this removes the fact that the choice in itself is immoral for Shepard to make.  With the EC the Catalyst hints this was a problem before.  Organics refused any form of Synthesis when the Catalyst was still a peacemaker of sorts.

Edit:

For the record, I would make this choice if I was in Shepard's shoes.  If I felt it was too immoral actually being in those shoes during decision time, I could see myself going for Control.  Destroy isn't really an option for me.

Edit2:  Fixed some typos

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 27 juin 2012 - 01:57 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

I am Shepard of Borg. You will be... assimilated.

But seriously, I liked Synthesis. To me, Destroy was the weakest of the three, and Control was the strongest... though that may be because that was my full-Renegade playthrough and hearing Shepard's last VO and imagining it in his full Renegade badass voice.... yeah. Don't. ****. With. Shepard.

[Gill Kaiser]

Olaf_de_IJsbeer wrote...

If you thought Synthesis was horrifying, just wait until you see what Control has in store for you.

It will invade my nightmares for the rest of my life.

What do you mean? I thought Control was very satisfying. There's nothing nightmarish in it at all...

[Tyrzun]

Sythesis is horrifying and will be forever flawed. The premise is organics kill synthetics because they are different. Humans kill humans and they are the same. So, making the same does not stop war. Unless you removed their emotions and free will. At that point they are machines without individual personalities. Case closed.

[Gill Kaiser]

Lennyoh wrote...

I'm glad I'm not the only one who found Synthesis wrong. I knew it was wrong from the start but seeing the extended version, it still feels wrong. You're changing EVERYONE in the galaxy to be exactly the same. Everyone is now on the exact same path of progression instead of their own. You're essentially killing the diversity of the galaxy. And who the heck does star child think he is to say that we're ready for this? He says synthesis will eventually happen. If it will happen then let it happen naturally, not force it through the crucible. Who knows the consequences of forcing such a change in everyone.

At least Shepard can now actually say that he refuses to make that decision.

And it doesn't matter what Star Child thinks, because the new information establishes him as a Rogue AI that turned genocidal through lack of understanding and blind adherence to its directive.

[Sylvianus]

Lennyoh wrote...
 He says synthesis will eventually happen. If it will happen then let it happen naturally, not force it through the crucible.

Agreed.

Yes, what we saw with the Geth and the new relationship with Quarians showed that organics were also able to get along with synthetics in a natural way, over time, without forcing destiny. Without doing weird things with unknown effects and that can be harmful, without forced assimilation.

[Gill Kaiser]

Tyrzun wrote...

Sythesis is horrifying and will be forever flawed. The premise is organics kill synthetics because they are different. Humans kill humans and they are the same. So, making the same does not stop war. Unless you removed their emotions and free will. At that point they are machines without individual personalities. Case closed.

I think the idea is that synthesis gives everyone some degree of connection and shared understanding, meaning war would be less likely because conflict is borne of disconnection and lack of understanding.

[camcon2100]

I could do without the glowing skin part. But the rest of Synthesis is sufficient to satisfy me