248 réponses à ce sujet

[Ketten]

I couldn't take Synthesis seriously. Especially when they started explaining how Reapers were "helping in reconstruction." What?

Suddenly we're all okay with Husks walking around because they're now "alive" again? No no no. That's just gross, k.

[Drumsmasher]

Gill Kaiser wrote...

Olaf_de_IJsbeer wrote...

If you thought Synthesis was horrifying, just wait until you see what Control has in store for you.

It will invade my nightmares for the rest of my life.

What do you mean? I thought Control was very satisfying. There's nothing nightmarish in it at all...

It matters how you look at it. If Shepard the person was controlling the reapers, he would eventually go mad from lack of communication with others and socialization. Wouldn't you? 

Catalyst Shepard is the catalyst, but with the memories of Shepard. He wouldn't go mad from this, because he is in a Synthetic form, but he realises the values and needs of the Organics because he used to be one.

This is good, because it shows that the Reapers are, in this situation, basically a police force for the galaxy.

[Balek-Vriege]

Tyrzun wrote...

Sythesis is horrifying and will be forever flawed. The premise is organics kill synthetics because they are different. Humans kill humans and they are the same. So, making the same does not stop war. Unless you removed their emotions and free will. At that point they are machines without individual personalities. Case closed.

It's not about conventional war.  It's about one side (Synthetics) outright destroying the other (Organics) forever, because of a lack of understanding and/or over hate, resources, greed etc etc..  Just think what a Reaper-like race would be capable of if they actually focused on making organic life truly non-existent.  I'm pretty sure they could pull it off.

Plus the premise in of itself doesn't have to be real in our world (although I could definitely see it happening... think Matrix, Terminator etc.).  The fact is if the Catalyst is telling the truth, it's creators, organics and synthetics really tried to get along only to always fail for who knows how long.  In the Mass Effect universe the "created will always rebel against the creators" theory is fact, even when it comes to the Catalyst ("My creators didn't aprove, but it had to be done").

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 27 juin 2012 - 01:38 .

[Jjacobclark]

Sylvianus wrote...

chaos_Shadow15 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Eeer no. You just choose to destroy the reapers, no matter what is the cost. It was your job since the beginning, this is what was asked to your shep. There's no genocide, you don't do a genocide just because you choose to kill something that wants to kill you and you don't have much choice for the lives at stake.

No, it's genocide. Have you played the Mass Effect series at all? Throughout the trilogy we come to learn that synthetic life like the Reapers and the Geth are almost no different from organic life in that they can feel and they can be self aware. If you chose to keep the Geth in ME3 and if you have ever had a conversation with EDI.... ever,

I don't think destroying a bunch of toasters is genocide. 

Also there really isnt any right or wrong or implicit good or bad in the mass effect universe so all topic about morality is a bit silly














you'll see the solidification of that ideal.

The fact is, the Reapers and the Geth are sentient and self aware species. You wipe that out completely by choosing the Destroy option. I'm sorry, but it can't be justified as morally "correct". None of the endings can completely be justified as correct.

It's a genocide, yes,  and it's sad and infortunate, I don't disagree here, but no you don't decide to do a genocide if you want to destroy the reapers....That's just a consequence. You have just no choice othen then to destroy the reapers ( other choices are morally wrong and disgusting, you can only blame yourself ). So, the only thing I can blame myself was the consequences but i didn't do exactly something wrong. My mission was to destroy the reapers and to save the organics, the galaxy. This a war, there must be victims.  This is what I did.

But with the control and synthesis option, you don't even destroy the reapers, but even you choose to rewrite every species, ( and you do exactly the same as the reapers, species don't have their choice, you choose for them what they will become, what they must be because you want " no more chaos " . And yet, Shep has sworn to protect these organics. Yes I saw the synthesis ending but it didn't make any sense anyways, space magic ) or to control universe with the same reapers which were killing billions people a while before.

All choices were bad, but not morally equal.

[frylock23]

chaos_Shadow15 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Eeer no. You just choose to destroy the reapers, no matter what is the cost. It was your job since the beginning, this is what was asked to your shep. There's no genocide, you don't do a genocide just because you choose to kill something that wants to kill you and you don't have much choice for the lives at stake.

No, it's genocide. Have you played the Mass Effect series at all? Throughout the trilogy we come to learn that synthetic life like the Reapers and the Geth are almost no different from organic life in that they can feel and they can be self aware. If you chose to keep the Geth in ME3 and if you have ever had a conversation with EDI.... ever, you'll see the solidification of that ideal.

The fact is, the Reapers and the Geth are sentient and self aware species. You wipe that out completely by choosing the Destroy option. I'm sorry, but it can't be justified as morally "correct". None of the endings can completely be justified as correct.

Synthesis is genocide too. On a massive, galactic scale. Buh-bye to all organic life. Whatever it was before, it is now entirely other. That which made it what it was has been eradicated, destroyed, in favor of the Catalyst's so-called perfection.

One individual and one species as opposed to all of them because EDI and the Geth are still remade in sythesis.

[Drumsmasher]

www.youtube.com/watch 

Basically synthesis works this way in how people can communicate mind to mind, but without "Helios"

There's still personal values and beliefs, but people can more easily understand eachother.

[Brownfinger]

Yeah, synthesis is pretty horrifying, I dunno how it could be seen as anything but in the process of being written. And visually, it's nightmare fuel. The choices still suck, but I find "control" to be somewhat easiest to stomach now.

I'm sure that people taken into the Borg Collective (I hope I got that right), forcibly turned into the Flood, annexed into the Technarchy using the Transmode Virus, (insert your flavor of "ONE OF US, IT'S BLISS" sci-fi reference here), were all very happy at the time of their enslavement. Probably because free will, and choice, were removed in the process.

Truth told, I don't think the nature of life is defined in some paradise, knowing all the answers. Part of the point is the struggle and toil it takes to get life's questions answered and challenges met. To have it simply given, forcibly even, seems completely senseless.

[chaos_Shadow15]

frylock23 wrote...

chaos_Shadow15 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Eeer no. You just choose to destroy the reapers, no matter what is the cost. It was your job since the beginning, this is what was asked to your shep. There's no genocide, you don't do a genocide just because you choose to kill something that wants to kill you and you don't have much choice for the lives at stake.

No, it's genocide. Have you played the Mass Effect series at all? Throughout the trilogy we come to learn that synthetic life like the Reapers and the Geth are almost no different from organic life in that they can feel and they can be self aware. If you chose to keep the Geth in ME3 and if you have ever had a conversation with EDI.... ever, you'll see the solidification of that ideal.

The fact is, the Reapers and the Geth are sentient and self aware species. You wipe that out completely by choosing the Destroy option. I'm sorry, but it can't be justified as morally "correct". None of the endings can completely be justified as correct.

Synthesis is genocide too. On a massive, galactic scale. Buh-bye to all organic life. Whatever it was before, it is now entirely other. That which made it what it was has been eradicated, destroyed, in favor of the Catalyst's so-called perfection.

One individual and one species as opposed to all of them because EDI and the Geth are still remade in sythesis.

No, I don't believe its genocide. To quote someone from earlier on in this thread:

"This [Synthesis ending] was harder to debate before the EC, but none of the slides show any evidencce of this total lack of diversity [or Genocide, as you call it].  Krogans, Quarians are shown rebuilding their civilizations based on their own cultures, Krogan still Krogan kids.  Individualism still exists and with that comes diversity of thought and ideals.  That means there's most likely going to be conflict, but not genocidal Organic vs. Synthesis conflict.  It's not that diversity was elminated, but everyone was given unifying understanding and ability"

Modifié par chaos_Shadow15, 27 juin 2012 - 01:46 .

[Col.Aurion]

Would rather turn into kool aid or tang

[Slayer299]

So other than the creepy factor of the Synthesis ending (did like Tricia Helfor's VO work).

What is supposed to be happening to the Husks, Banshees, Ravagers, Brutes, etc, now? We're all just one 1/2 Synthetic happy family now? "Hey Fred! Come see my new neighber, Morinth, she's a Banshee from across the bridge, seems to be a really nice person too!"

[Mr. C]

Synthesis is disgusting. The Reapers got off scot-free and everyone else has personal choice ripped from their grasp. Remember that soldier? The one who was defending his friend from a husk mob? Yeah, he gets to become one of them. Why didn't he pick his gun back up and put a clip into the damned abominations? How about the rest of the soldiers/fleets fighting? I'm sure they would want to finish the job. And the Reapers helping rebuild? WHO WOULD ACCEPT THEIR ASSISTANCE!? Congratulations; Shepard turned everyone into the Borg. Despicable.

[Balek-Vriege]

Mr. C wrote...

Synthesis is disgusting. The Reapers got off scot-free and everyone else has personal choice ripped from their grasp. Remember that soldier? The one who was defending his friend from a husk mob? Yeah, he gets to become one of them. Why didn't he pick his gun back up and put a clip into the damned abominations? How about the rest of the soldiers/fleets fighting? I'm sure they would want to finish the job. And the Reapers helping rebuild? WHO WOULD ACCEPT THEIR ASSISTANCE!? Congratulations; Shepard turned everyone into the Borg. Despicable.

Your wrong.  The Reapers do not get off "scot-free" as you put it!

...Instead they get a community service sentence for eternity.


On a more serious note my perspective is that the future of the Galaxy is more important than some type of physical justice against anything Reaper.  People accept their assistance because they understand and are "smarter and wiser" now.  Again there's no evidence of Borg like civilization in this ending.  If anything Synthetics and Organics seem even more empathetic, espeically the Krogan from the slides.  I feel more sorry for the husk in that situation with it possibly becoming aware and being their former self in a husk body.  Or it could be a new individual entirely.

[AlphaDormante]

Synthesis creeps me the hell out on so many levels. It just looks like this perfect world where everyone is always smiling and happy about the fact that someone just stuck badfingers into their DNA and rewrote everything they are. It reminds me of that "beautiful utopia with a dark, twisted elephant in the room" trope. Especially when EDI started going on about immortality. Erk.

[SP2219]

 I agree with you completely.  Very well said.

[Mr. C]

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Mr. C wrote...

Synthesis is disgusting. The Reapers got off scot-free and everyone else has personal choice ripped from their grasp. Remember that soldier? The one who was defending his friend from a husk mob? Yeah, he gets to become one of them. Why didn't he pick his gun back up and put a clip into the damned abominations? How about the rest of the soldiers/fleets fighting? I'm sure they would want to finish the job. And the Reapers helping rebuild? WHO WOULD ACCEPT THEIR ASSISTANCE!? Congratulations; Shepard turned everyone into the Borg. Despicable.

Your wrong.  The Reapers do not get off "scot-free" as you put it!

...Instead they get a community service sentence for eternity.


On a more serious note my perspective is that the future of the Galaxy is more important than some type of physical justice against anything Reaper.  People accept their assistance because they understand and are "smarter and wiser" now.  Again there's no evidence of Borg like civilization in this ending.  If anything Synthetics and Organics seem even more empathetic, espeically the Krogan from the slides.  I feel more sorry for the husk in that situation with it possibly becoming aware and being their former self in a husk body.  Or it could be a new individual entirely.

>_> No, the Reapers are helping out because everyone is like them now. No need to exterminate one of our own, right? I'm asking why everyone is just blindly letting them walk freely. Millions of people would want blood!  
"Smarter and wiser" is one thing, but I would want the CHOICE to attain it. Not have it forced on me. 
Control is community service; Synthesis is just....abhorrant.

[Balek-Vriege]

Mr. C wrote...

Balek-Vriege wrote...

Mr. C wrote...

Synthesis is disgusting. The Reapers got off scot-free and everyone else has personal choice ripped from their grasp. Remember that soldier? The one who was defending his friend from a husk mob? Yeah, he gets to become one of them. Why didn't he pick his gun back up and put a clip into the damned abominations? How about the rest of the soldiers/fleets fighting? I'm sure they would want to finish the job. And the Reapers helping rebuild? WHO WOULD ACCEPT THEIR ASSISTANCE!? Congratulations; Shepard turned everyone into the Borg. Despicable.

Your wrong.  The Reapers do not get off "scot-free" as you put it!

...Instead they get a community service sentence for eternity.


On a more serious note my perspective is that the future of the Galaxy is more important than some type of physical justice against anything Reaper.  People accept their assistance because they understand and are "smarter and wiser" now.  Again there's no evidence of Borg like civilization in this ending.  If anything Synthetics and Organics seem even more empathetic, espeically the Krogan from the slides.  I feel more sorry for the husk in that situation with it possibly becoming aware and being their former self in a husk body.  Or it could be a new individual entirely.

>_> No, the Reapers are helping out because everyone is like them now. No need to exterminate one of our own, right? I'm asking why everyone is just blindly letting them walk freely. Millions of people would want blood!  
"Smarter and wiser" is one thing, but I would want the CHOICE to attain it. Not have it forced on me. 
Control is community service; Synthesis is just....abhorrant.

Only your opinion, but I can see that Organics with heightened logic and intelligence would see:

-The Reapers were controlled by the Catalyst and were performing a function.  They were not evil.
-Even if we wanted justice, the fact is we would be finishing the genocide of countless races by destroying their Reaper existence and the knowledge and culture contained within (untapped because they were mere tools under the Catalyst).

They may not be able to forget what happened, but "justice" after the events of synthesis seems empty.  It would be exorcising a demon from someone in a horror flick only to execute them after for the crimes they commited while possessed.

Modifié par Balek-Vriege, 27 juin 2012 - 02:57 .

[Slayer299]

Balek-Vriege wrote...
On a more serious note my perspective is that the future of the Galaxy is more important than some type of physical justice against anything Reaper.  People accept their assistance because they understand and are "smarter and wiser" now.  Again there's no evidence of Borg like civilization in this ending.  If anything Synthetics and Organics seem even more empathetic, espeically the Krogan from the slides.  I feel more sorry for the husk in that situation with it possibly becoming aware and being their former self in a husk body.  Or it could be a new individual entirely.

The problem with your use of "smarter and wiser" is that smarter does not equal wiser. You gain wisdom from experience, not just because you have a computer brain with tons of knowledge in it.

As for the Husk, my post earlier said it all about that - "Hey Fred! Come see my new neighber, Morinth, she's a Banshee from across the bridge, seems to be a really nice person too!" Yay! Former Reapers for LI's! Because that is what it comes down to them being now; friends, aunts, uncles, lovers, the whole petunia

[Ridwan]

Synthesis will always be the most horrible choice, I'm surprised that the writers actually consider it the best ending.

[tardis_type_40]

I think the synthesis option is pretty horrific as well, and I've never even chosen that. It seems morally wrong-footed to want to merge organics and synthetics without so much as asking the galactic community whether or not it's what they want first. The outcome of the decision is irrelevant. It's the decision itself that I find so off-putting.

Having said that, I'm finding it difficult to understand why some people seem to be so bitterly opposed to the Control option as well. Of all the choices on offer, it seems to be the one with the least amount of fallout: Shepard's consciousness replaces the Catalyst AI and calls off the Reaper attack, even using the Reapers to help rebuild the mass relays in the wake of their being damaged, and then utilizes these machines to protect the galaxy from further threat. You don't have to sacrifice the Geth or EDI, and order is restored to the galaxy.

Wherein lies the issue?

Maybe I have a misunderstanding of the way the Reapers function, but I was under the impression that they were simply tools of the Catalyst; machine's built with the purpose of fullfilling a function? I do not recall any information that suggests they've developed to become sentient like the Geth.

Modifié par tardis_type_40, 27 juin 2012 - 02:49 .

[o Ventus]

So when those free-willed husks, banshees, brutes, etc all see how monstrous they've become, I predict mass suicide in the streets. Yeah, no real psychological ramifications here.

[JaKaSa]

Synthesis really creeped me out. Green glowing eyes with smiling faces, reapers helping with rebuilding.. It kinda confirmed for me what I thought about orginal synthesis ending: That's not an option. Also.. small plot hole? starchild says that synthesis is "perfect solution", but it can't be forced so A. with what right does Shepard choose for every being in universe and B. How is Shepard's choice = choice of every being of galaxy.

Well atleast I liked other endings and more or less got what I wanted from EC.

[Denethar]

I really disliked Synthesis in the original ending. This time I managed until the krogan baby and his green eyes before I started laughing my ass off.

Synthesis goes against everything what free will stands for, so I'll never like it. However, having EDI make the speech did make it slightly better. Control just feeled....creepy. I guess every single Shepard I have will have to make the Destroy ending choice. At least I can head canon that one now to make it at least okay.

[Velocithon]

Synthesis just looks stupid. Forget about the idea and what it actually is (which is also bad), but the green glory stuff everywhere looks hilariously retarded.

[spirosz]

Javik: "So I'm a synthetic now?"
ED: "No, only partially."
Javik: "I must throw myself out the airlock."

[nitefyre410]

M25105 wrote...

Synthesis will always be the most horrible choice, I'm surprised that the writers actually consider it the best ending.

 

Synthesis will always be my  MEH choice... because it just why to many unfortunate implications.   Honestly I  like control the most...its more self contain synthesis but instead of the Shepard forcing everyone to evolve... Shepard forces the Reapers and Catalyst to evolve in the reasoning.  His merging with the Catalyst creates and new catalyst  with new directive  depending on if one is Paragon or Renegade. 

Essentail Its "I can't make the choice for eveyrone but I can make it for myself."  



^ This with space lemonade and all...

Modifié par nitefyre410, 27 juin 2012 - 03:06 .