201 réponses à ce sujet

[capn233]

Permafrost27 wrote...

Good point capn, a true statement needs no embelleshment.

I don't understand the purpose of your comments, nor the motivation.

First you make a claim about people using the crutch of cloak.  Since this thread is specifically about taking damage over duration (since invisibility duration is useless for anyone that can actually play any of the other classes) you must be implying you think that taking damage bonuses is a crutch.

This is interesting.  Do you generalize this to the other classes, like Human Soldier who is probably best spec'd for maximum damage in passive and Adrenaline Rush.  Or do you apply it to the Asari Adept that spec's Warp and Throw for maximum biotic explosion damage?

[capn233]

Fox-snipe wrote...

Is it any wonder people are throwing their hands up and saying to go do it yourself?

Personally I have never made a claim that I would stop trying to do objectives or revive teammates.  I have been pretty vocal about taking extra invisibility time as a poor choice relative to damage in practically every single discussion about it though.

I have had to cap objectives or revive as a visible class countless times so I do not feel like invisibility is a prerequisite to fulfilling those goals.

Modifié par capn233, 27 juin 2012 - 04:47 .

[Apl_Juice]

Fox-snipe wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

Funny how it went from "Why nerf a CO-OP game" to "Screw CO-OP, I'll kill everything".

Sure sounds like a nerf to a co-op game to me.

Erm, it IS a nerf; a well warranted one.

My point was that before, these people where saying nerfs were unneeded due to the fact that it was a co-op game and every was helping. Now, they seem to be abandoning that original notion purely out spite and greed, judging from some of the flat-out childish replies in this thread.

[G. P. Burdell]

I'm pretty sure most of this "Only infiltrators can cap objectives" thing comes from FBWGG where every team has at least one infiltrator who is the only one who doesn't camp the whole time. Most forum goers despise FBWGG though because it supports poor team play.

Oh and like I've said on most of these threads 5.2 seconds of cloak is still better than 0 seconds and infiltrators are still the better option to cap/revive most of the time. doesn't mean they are the only ones who do it but if there is a choice, well your still the best bet.

[SkreeMalicious]

My TC was only really needed to last long enough for me to pull the trigger... Business as usual
It only takes a few seconds to run to revive someone anyways, been doing that all night no issues.

If Johnny Kroguard is on the other side of the level headbutting things, he does so at his own peril, while the rest of the group facepalms and watches his purple outline fall turn into a (+) symbol, then a skull. That kind gets no revives from me. Im not a Kroguard personal medic....

besides i outdps them 10-1 anyways, good luck headbutting the ravioli i leave behind

[Permafrost27]

capn233 wrote...

Permafrost27 wrote...

Good point capn, a true statement needs no embelleshment.

I don't understand the purpose of your comments, nor the motivation.

First you make a claim about people using the crutch of cloak.  Since this thread is specifically about taking damage over duration (since invisibility duration is useless for anyone that can actually play any of the other classes) you must be implying you think that taking damage bonuses is a crutch.

This is interesting.  Do you generalize this to the other classes, like Human Soldier who is probably best spec'd for maximum damage in passive and Adrenaline Rush.  Or do you apply it to the Asari Adept that spec's Warp and Throw for maximum biotic explosion damage?

I can't fault your objectivity and politeness so I will pay respects by also devoting some time to this instead of being flippant.

My comment was primarily directed at the stereotypical selfish point-hungry epeeny Infil.

Those people (tempted to use quotations there but possibly too self-effacing) are, for the most part, reliant on invisibility as a defensive tool and also the massive damage bonus to achieve success in the game. Typically they tend to play selfishly. It is unlikely they would be getting 140k+ scores at the end of the game with other classes on a regular basis.

This was reinforced by some of the other posters in your thread, as they would specify they wouldn't revive non-infil teammates or cap objectives etc. 

I have no problem with you specifically if you don't meet these criteria, and will readily admit that sometimes I get my drink on and don't always act my age

Modifié par Permafrost27, 27 juin 2012 - 05:07 .

[L.ast L.ife]

So where can I hang my coat?

[Drummernate]

I am spec'ing out of the power entirely.

Maybe then Bioware's "Playtest monitor" stuff will see that we are not using it at all anymore and they will buff it back.

[Immortal Strife]

I plan to spec two of the infiltrators into duration, probabily the Salarian because he can get around shield gate, and the other one is up in the air, but, definitely one sniper infilitrator and one shotty infiltrator.

Modifié par Immortal Strife, 27 juin 2012 - 05:37 .

[ol MISAKA lo]

Meatiershower wrote...

Fox-snipe wrote...

Meatiershower wrote...

ericjdev wrote...

Cap
your own goals and heal yourselves and while your doing it make sure
you don't complain because this is what you asked for.

So
your teammates asked to be abandoned by butthurt power players? When an
infiltrator goes down, and I'm not playing mine, I revive him, with far
less (as in zero) cloak time. Same with capping objectives. Wow. Just
wow.

It might at least cause an uproar on the forums and get the change reversed.  I mean the whining did in fact get this whole shindig started in the first place. "Reap what you sow"?

As
an Infiltrator most of the times I went down were away from mobs
(trying to reposition and an errant grenade or shot downed my while
already being weak) or while trying to revive someone in a bad position.
(In which case just leave me.  Or at least control the crowd first,
something I couldn't do.)  But then I'm the sniping variety, and tried
not to put myself into those dangerous revive spots so my team wouldn't
(1) get killed trying to help me, and (2) easily revive me and I can
continue to help them.

Bioware publicly posted that their
own data prompted the change. It just amazes me that, regardless of
knowing if your teammates begged to nerf TC, that players would toss
them under the bus out of spite. The same people who keep asking, "It's a
CO-OP team game, why ask for nerfs?!?"

Co-op.

Apl_J wrote...

Fox-snipe wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

Funny how it went from "Why nerf a CO-OP game" to "Screw CO-OP, I'll kill everything".

Sure sounds like a nerf to a co-op game to me.

Erm, it IS a nerf; a well warranted one.

My point was that before, these people where saying nerfs were unneeded due to the fact that it was a co-op game and every was helping. Now, they seem to be abandoning that original notion purely out spite and greed, judging from some of the flat-out childish replies in this thread.

So let me get this straight: by your guy definition, we should just take it, be straight support for all of you who wanted this duration nerf because we made you feel inferior during games?  You wanted us to have to choose a character build more carefully.  We did.




Now excuse me while I go be a slayer and kill things, and revive the people on my friendsw list that are in the lobby.

Fox-snipe wrote...
You must be speaking of the three
non-infiltrators that never did a damn thing besides killing.  So don't
be surprised when Infiltrators get fed up trying to bend their playstyle
to the whim of all the whiners. 
"DO THE OBJECTIVES! REVIVE ME! STOP BEING AWESOME! WTF WHY AREN'T YOU BEING A
TEAM PLAYER?!"

Is it any wonder people are throwing their hands up and saying to go do it yourself?

[ol MISAKA lo]

Drummernate wrote...

I am spec'ing out of the power entirely.

Maybe then Bioware's "Playtest monitor" stuff will see that we are not using it at all anymore and they will buff it back.

No, what they will see will probably cause them to nerf damage again, and further push Geth Infiltrators into everyones face until they hit hunter mode again and just make even more people mad than just INF users.

[chcknwng]

I am thinking which infiltrator I will play on gold. I will spec that ones for duration. On silver you can easily get away with 5 sec of cloak when capping but on gold it is suicidal.

[Pete Zahut]

I'm definitely not gonna spec for duration and I hope no one else does. And I hope all the nerfers complain that infiltrators are selfish for not doing so.

[Pete Zahut]

wngmv wrote...

I am thinking which infiltrator I will play on gold. I will spec that ones for duration. On silver you can easily get away with 5 sec of cloak when capping but on gold it is suicidal.

5 seconds is plenty of time on gold if someone has your back

[maztor1225]

YEAH! I absolutely hate support roles! Who does that benefit anyways? I will always only cloak to deal more damage. Capping objectives easily is stupid. So is being "medic" and reviving those who need it in the heat of combat.

Seriously, when theres soldiers, adepts, vanguards, and sentinels all in a lobby we don't exactly need another damage dealer.
My squadmate uses TC to complete arm/disarm objectives while I as a vorcha use my increased movement speed and regen to do collection objectives. Who is the first one there to revive me using TC to help him safely? My GI squadmate.

Support builds are far more effective than you think. We do not need more damage dealers, contrary to seemingly popular belief. I guess you just don't like seeing "Assist" rather than "Kill".

[ol MISAKA lo]

maztor1225 wrote...
Seriously, when theres soldiers, adepts, vanguards, and sentinels all in a lobby we don't exactly need another damage dealer.
My squadmate uses TC to complete arm/disarm objectives while I as a vorcha use my increased movement speed and regen to do collection objectives. Who is the first one there to revive me using TC to help him safely? My GI squadmate.

Support builds are far more effective than you think. We do not need more damage dealers, contrary to seemingly popular belief. I guess you just don't like seeing "Assist" rather than "Kill".

So you want all of us to conform to your happy christmas land where we are more than willing to play the objective slave? Yeah....good luck with that.  We play what we want to play.

And if those classes were "sooooo good" at being damage dealers, then why'd we need to get nerfed to the point where we actually had to make this obvious choice?

[TehMerc]

maztor1225 wrote...
Support builds are far more effective than you think. We do not need more damage dealers, contrary to seemingly popular belief. I guess you just don't like seeing "Assist" rather than "Kill".

I'd wait till the tantrums die down before trying logic Maz.

[oblong74]

Speccing TC for duration to me says, "I expect all matches to go sour and I'll have to rez a lot and objective won't be capped unless I'm invisible."

Myself, I prefer a more postive attitude going into battle that's why my infiltrators will be specced for damage. Let's go, team!

[maztor1225]

ol MISAKA lo wrote...

maztor1225 wrote...
Seriously, when theres soldiers, adepts, vanguards, and sentinels all in a lobby we don't exactly need another damage dealer.
My squadmate uses TC to complete arm/disarm objectives while I as a vorcha use my increased movement speed and regen to do collection objectives. Who is the first one there to revive me using TC to help him safely? My GI squadmate.

Support builds are far more effective than you think. We do not need more damage dealers, contrary to seemingly popular belief. I guess you just don't like seeing "Assist" rather than "Kill".

So you want all of us to conform to your happy christmas land where we are more than willing to play the objective slave? Yeah....good luck with that.  We play what we want to play.

And if those classes were "sooooo good" at being damage dealers, then why'd we need to get nerfed to the point where we actually had to make this obvious choice?

No, you can play how you want. I'm saying if you wanna deal damage, be a soldier. Snipers should be kept as support, not 1SKing everything and soloing complete matches.

As for the 2nd part, you got nerfed because infils using widow or black widow running around like soldiers were so common. If we had to be better killers, WE would have gotten a BUFF.
Infils were one man teams..

[Canavar404]

I will make two Infiltrators:
1. QMI with Krysae & damage skill for randoms
2. SI with Valiant & duration skill for friends
So I still make Infiltrator haters to cry, but my friends will still count on me for objectives and revives.

p.s. anyway I play all classes except the vanguards (use them for solos only)

[Nl55]

capn233 wrote...

This is of course refering to Tactical Cloak.

Who wants in?

Me. Damage enough for playing not only supporting role. 
They(BW) can do better but they don't do this now. 

[Mizzie466]

The way I see it ... you decloak immediately after rezzing someone anyway so duration doesn't help that much. As for objective capping ... the original duration didn't last long enough either if you didn't spec for duration in the first place. Also cloak is pretty useless in all other objectives. (kill/hack/pizza)

I'm not sure why people associate teamwork with cloak duration when it actually doesn't help that much.

I see this as more about survivability issue. When infiltrators had 10s without duration evo, you could pretty much run from one end of the map to the other thus infiltrators had excellent survivability yet also have excellent damage bonus, while other classes have to make the tradeoff between damage and protection.

Now at 5s if you don't run in a smarter way, you could end up decloaking at a bad spot and die. However, this doesn't become an issue until you're down to 2 or 1 survivor.

[lpconfig]

I call it the .... oh wait I don't really play infiltrators anyway.

[Psycho Pisces]

Mizzie466 wrote...

The way I see it ... you decloak immediately after rezzing someone anyway so duration doesn't help that much. As for objective capping ... the original duration didn't last long enough either if you didn't spec for duration in the first place. Also cloak is pretty useless in all other objectives. (kill/hack/pizza)

I'm not sure why people associate teamwork with cloak duration when it actually doesn't help that much.

I see this as more about survivability issue. When infiltrators had 10s without duration evo, you could pretty much run from one end of the map to the other thus infiltrators had excellent survivability yet also have excellent damage bonus, while other classes have to make the tradeoff between damage and protection.

Now at 5s if you don't run in a smarter way, you could end up decloaking at a bad spot and die. However, this doesn't become an issue until you're down to 2 or 1 survivor.

The cloak duration just allowed us a little more leeway to reposition... Or a security blanket to hack points for most of the duration..

My motto now is, Unless it involves intimate time with a woman.. I'm not Specing for duration.  

[ol MISAKA lo]

maztor1225 wrote...

ol MISAKA lo wrote...

maztor1225 wrote...
Seriously, when theres soldiers, adepts, vanguards, and sentinels all in a lobby we don't exactly need another damage dealer.
My squadmate uses TC to complete arm/disarm objectives while I as a vorcha use my increased movement speed and regen to do collection objectives. Who is the first one there to revive me using TC to help him safely? My GI squadmate.

Support builds are far more effective than you think. We do not need more damage dealers, contrary to seemingly popular belief. I guess you just don't like seeing "Assist" rather than "Kill".

So you want all of us to conform to your happy christmas land where we are more than willing to play the objective slave? Yeah....good luck with that.  We play what we want to play.

And if those classes were "sooooo good" at being damage dealers, then why'd we need to get nerfed to the point where we actually had to make this obvious choice?

No, you can play how you want. I'm saying if you wanna deal damage, be a soldier. Snipers should be kept as support, not 1SKing everything and soloing complete matches.

As for the 2nd part, you got nerfed because infils using widow or black widow running around like soldiers were so common. If we had to be better killers, WE would have gotten a BUFF.
Infils were one man teams..

Well I am a slayer first and foremost.  I love My Quarian Huntress and My Geth Blast sniper.  I suspect that I am not alone in this when I say that I refuse to be railroaded into playing another class just because before I came into X lobby, the other 3 people decided that they were going to be slayers.

In reality Eric has effectively killed about 90% of PuGs.  It was bad enough that communication to randoms was near impossible.  Now we have to pray for support-lovers in every game?  All I see is more headaches than it's worth, more lobby kicks, as well as more useless threads about how the "selfish" infiltrators are still OP.

And here I thought this game's MP had more than 3 months left in it.  I'm not saying this as an extreme, but if the playerbase really rifts a few more times, like what happened this balance change, then that may be true.