214 réponses à ce sujet

[MattFini]

Rikketik wrote...

But only with the mindset they had before the synthesis. If there is mutual understanding after it, then the psychological damage would not be as severe.

I can see your point, though I don't agree with it.

Understanding and forgetting are two different things.  Post-synthesis, people may understand, but they're not going to forget.  Those who were forced into repaer interment camps, who saw loved ones transformed into husks ... yes, we see reapers helping rebuild, but it's not enough to simply flip a switch and forget all about the trauma.

[Xamufam]

if you like synthesis, in that case you have to take away conflict, conflict starts war & competition
War leads to innovation funding to medical & scientific research.
(internet is a product of war & most thing you use everyday)
everything would become stagnant & boring
conflict is a very important part of life

Modifié par Troxa, 27 juin 2012 - 06:46 .

[zambingo]

So many characters, so many things in all the games lay the ground work for "Synthesis Is Bad, Mmmkay." Sure the actual Synthesis ending says different... but that's the hook. You've been had. It was like that prior to EC and it is still that now. Synthesis isn't life, it's death.

[wook77]

Synthesis is the perfect ending for people who think immortal Krogan is a good idea, especially with the way that they breed now that the Genophage has been cured.

I like the synthesis ending as long as I picture me getting to live next to Marauder Shields and how he yells at the kids to get off his lawn cause harmony is one thing but a Reaper's lawn is another thing entirely. His buddy, Husk #34987135715-81345-89, worked really hard to rebuild that house and lawn, after all. And his destroyer reaper friend took over a week to place his roof just right. Kids better respect that. He'll tell you all about the previous cycle where kids respected a man's lawn because he has perfect understanding of it and we all want to learn everything from previous cycles.

I can't help it. The cut scenes from the new Synthesis ending made me laugh until I had tears streaming down my face.

[Jamie9]

Simply using a life-death ratio, synthesis is the best ending.

Reject - Galactic extinction. Reapers presumed dead.

Destroy - Geth, some Quarians, some Volus. Reapers dead.

Control - Reapers the same as before.

Synthesis - Previous civilizations resurface in Reapers. Life gained.

If compared in this way, synthesis is the best option.

[NoUserNameHere]

The Synthesis crowd wanted a utopian ending that ignores the obvious ethical implications/brainwashing required to produce such a society.

The Synthesis crowd got an ending sequence that was tailored to their headcanon of what Synthesis would do to the world. In a way, we all got the ending we wanted; still didn't see any dead Geth in the Destroy ending.

[The Night Mammoth]

I don't like it because the Catalyst essentially contradicts itself within in the same sentence.

"It wont work if it's forced, but here, have it as an option for the Crucible even though you've never explored anything like this concept in the entire game".

I also don't like the fact it makes everyone immortal.

I also don't like the fact that something akin to synthesis will be achieved anyway, so there's no need to choose it.

Synthesis is just..... irrelevant. There's no reason to pick it.

[Jamie9]

The Night Mammoth wrote...

I don't like it because the Catalyst essentially contradicts itself within in the same sentence.

"It wont work if it's forced, but here, have it as an option for the Crucible even though you've never explored anything like this concept in the entire game".

I also don't like the fact it makes everyone immortal.

I also don't like the fact that something akin to synthesis will be achieved anyway, so there's no need to choose it.

Synthesis is just..... irrelevant. There's no reason to pick it.

The past civilizations in the Reapers! I feel like I'm the only one that cares about those trillions of beings. 

[frylock23]

Some people don't understand that there are indeed things that are much worse than death.

[Reorte]

Nothing has been said in the ending that rules out all my fears about synthesis - what it'll do to undeveloped planets and so on, and frankly ignoring the fact that such a change will have a massive psychological impact on most people is either very ignorant or very disturbing. And the very idea of it being possible remains so unbelievably absurd. The EC Synthesis scenes look so much like propaganda. I'm happy for EDI but that just makes it look even more like emotional manipulation.

[Raikas]

NoUserNameHere wrote...

The Synthesis crowd wanted a utopian ending that ignores the obvious ethical implications/brainwashing required to produce such a society.

The Synthesis crowd got an ending sequence that was tailored to their headcanon of what Synthesis would do to the world.

I don't know about that - I think Synthesis is a morally questionable choice (and it was absolutely my least favourite originally so I certainly wasn't part of the group who wanted more of it), but I thought the EC Synthesis ending was really well-done in terms of tone.   I like the idea of it the least, but in terms of just watching it and being entertained I thought it was the most moving.

[KainD]

frylock23 wrote...

Some people don't understand that there are indeed things that are much worse than death.

Synthesis is not one of those. Besides you can always kill yourself. 


Other than that silly people morals aren't really going anywhere. What synthesis did was made it possible for everyone to be equal more or less. I am sure there will still be many conflicts between people that have different opinions. 

[Reorte]

NoUserNameHere wrote...

The Synthesis crowd wanted a utopian ending that ignores the obvious ethical implications/brainwashing required to produce such a society.

The Synthesis crowd got an ending sequence that was tailored to their headcanon of what Synthesis would do to the world. In a way, we all got the ending we wanted; still didn't see any dead Geth in the Destroy ending.

We saw EDI in the remember those scenes - we got negatives. Control got the downright creepy, whether paragon or renegade, Shepard. They got negatives. Synthesis, the most dubious choice in every possible way, got shown nothing negative. Perhaps no more Shepard at all was supposed to be it.

[Rikketik]

MattFini wrote...

Rikketik wrote...

But only with the mindset they had before the synthesis. If there is mutual understanding after it, then the psychological damage would not be as severe.

I can see your point, though I don't agree with it.

Understanding and forgetting are two different things.  Post-synthesis, people may understand, but they're not going to forget.  Those who were forced into repaer interment camps, who saw loved ones transformed into husks ... yes, we see reapers helping rebuild, but it's not enough to simply flip a switch and forget all about the trauma.

I agree with you on that. Then again, isn't mental trauma inevatible? Destroying the Reapers in the Destroy ending (duh) doesn't make the horrors of war magically go away either. People will be traumatized, no matter which ending is chosen. The only difference is the way they are forced to deal with it.

And this is just an assumption from my part, but you can see the Reapers take off directly after the synthesis and EDI seems to imply in her narration that the Reapers began to help rebuild in time, so not immediately from day one. People act like everybody, including the Reapers, are friends from the get-go, but I think that's an exaggeration. I think it makes a big difference, also for the survivors, if the Reapers immediately help rebuild or if everyone can slowly get used to the idea that they're not enemies anymore.

Modifié par Rikketik, 27 juin 2012 - 07:14 .

[thisisme8]

And still nobody sees the irony of the title. I wonder if I'm alone here.

[Jamie9]

KainD wrote...

frylock23 wrote...

Some people don't understand that there are indeed things that are much worse than death.

Synthesis is not one of those. Besides you can always kill yourself. 


Other than that silly people morals aren't really going anywhere. What synthesis did was made it possible for everyone to be equal more or less. I am sure there will still be many conflicts between people that have different opinions. 

This. Personality and morals remain the same. Gives the option to trillions upon trillions of past species to live if they want to.

We can download Husks and put them into cybernetic bodies, allowing them to live a normal life again.

Morally questionable? Yes. But by no means is it a terrible option.

Saying that, all 4 options are morally questionable.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Reorte wrote...

Nothing has been said in the ending that rules out all my fears about synthesis - what it'll do to undeveloped planets and so on, and frankly ignoring the fact that such a change will have a massive psychological impact on most people is either very ignorant or very disturbing. And the very idea of it being possible remains so unbelievably absurd. The EC Synthesis scenes look so much like propaganda. I'm happy for EDI but that just makes it look even more like emotional manipulation.

^^^ This is just one.

It is emotional manipulation. It is about how to market fascism. It is Eugenics packaged as something beautiful. This is the Brave New World of Aldous Huxley. Maybe people should read it or re-read it. This ending is ethically vile.

[Jamie9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

^^^ This is just one.

It is emotional manipulation. It is about how to market fascism. It is Eugenics packaged as something beautiful. This is the Brave New World of Aldous Huxley. Maybe people should read it or re-read it. This ending is ethically vile.

Ignoring the philosophical debate, and just going on what we were physically shown, synthesis is a good choice.

I judge people on their character. This means that synthesis doesn't actually really change anything. We just look a bit more green and have all those stims and stuff built in instead of implanted.

It also revives the trillions of people once trapped inside the Reapers. Trillions of people. Think they deserve a chance to live after going through extinctions beyond counting.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

You cannot ignore the philosophical debate.

**** can be repackaged to make it look better but it is still the same ****. That's what propaganda is about. You take a complex message and reduce it to the lowest common denominator. You make it look good to the person with the least education in the target group. That way it becomes more effective and more people buy into it.

That's why I'm seeing more people buying into the "utopian" Synthesis post EC than I did before. It's the same **** in a prettier box.

You may think I'm a knuckledragger. There is a big difference between transhumanism and this.Transhumanism is voluntary. Synthesis as described is not. Synthesis as described is ethically vile. It is cellular level rape.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 27 juin 2012 - 07:28 .

[mrcanada]

It is the one ending that truly gives the Reapers victory.  The fact that people like it shows that they failed in their final battle and this was their result

[Jamie9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

You cannot ignore the philosophical debate.

**** can be repackaged to make it look better but it is still the same ****. That's what propaganda is about. You take a complex message and reduce it to the lowest common denominator. You make it look good to the person with the least education in the target group. That way it becomes more effective and more people buy into it.

That's why I'm seeing more people buying into the "utopian" Synthesis post EC than I did before. It's the same **** in a prettier box.

You may think I'm a knuckledragger. There is a big difference between transhumanism and this.Transhumanism is voluntary. Synthesis as described is not. Synthesis as described is ethically vile. It is cellular level rape.

Transhumanism in "real life" isn't the same as synthesis in Mass Effect. The author is allowed to take liberties and create a story with it.

Many of the philosophies on transhumanism simply don't apply. That, and synthesis is impossible in reality. It's completely fictional.

I don't think you're stupid at all. I don't know you well enough to judge you.

Simply put, I like EC synthesis because it saves the most lives of the 4 choices, is the "happiest" ending, and thus the most enjoyable for me to experience.

Controlling the Reapers dooms trillions of lives to servitude.

Destroying the Reapers kills trillions of lives, and the Geth, and some Volus and Quarians.

Reject kills this cycle, and presumabling the trillions of lives within the Reapers too.

Modifié par Jamie9, 27 juin 2012 - 07:34 .

[Taboo]

It does apply. It's art. It's marketed fascism. That's what it is.

It reminds me of propaganda films to be honest. It's repulsive.

[MaleQuariansFTW]

Am I missing something? People are saying nothing changes with Control and it dooms everyone. Did we watch the same cutscenes? Shep controls what the Reapers do. He has them help and rebuild the galaxy, while remembering who he is. He's a guardian now. I don't see how nothing changes and everyone is doomed.

[LogicGunn]

The knowledge gained by reaper synthesis renders the whole galaxy virtually indestructible for when the next threat from out of town comes knocking on the door.

The combined knowledge of uncountable species of uncountable cycles? Priceless. (For everything else there's Omega Expressssssssss....oh wait...)

That and the EDI/Joker thing, who could deny Joker his one true love?

[Jamie9]

Taboo-XX wrote...

It does apply. It's art. It's marketed fascism. That's what it is.

It reminds me of propaganda films to be honest. It's repulsive.

It's fictional Taboo. Synthesis in Mass Effect does not carry the same conotations as it would in our society.

But seriously, am I the ONLY one who cares about the trillions of lives trapped within the Reapers??? Synthesis frees them.

Modifié par Jamie9, 27 juin 2012 - 07:41 .