214 réponses à ce sujet

[BWchief117]

Edi is the only real reason I think this ending is valid. The Geth are cool, but I can get over them not being there. Legion was awesome, but that's really it. the rest are just Autobots to me. The fact that Edi grows soooo much by Shepard sacrificing himself this way makes me really feel bad when I choose something else. She almost conveys this sense of innocence presenting itself now that it has the (knowledge) to do so. It's a really good Sci-fi ending. The big problem is what synthesis actually does. From the cut-scene, it still seemed to me like every species was still unique and were themselves, except "synthetic," meaning that the only thing that changes was the replacement of all organic matter with EQUIVALENT synthetic matter. But, then Edi says they even transcend mortality, I had to step back from my interpretation. That line makes me think that it did just turn everything into sort of a mono-culture in a way. That really makes me not like the synthesis option... and then Control would actually be the paragon option. But, I also wanted the possibility of Shepard reuniting with Tali on Rannoch, so I had to choose Destroy... and I can live with that final renegade choice (because it is an expressly selfish act) just so that I can know my Shepard went back to Tali.

[thisisme8]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

You cannot ignore the philosophical debate.

**** can be repackaged to make it look better but it is still the same ****. That's what propaganda is about. You take a complex message and reduce it to the lowest common denominator. You make it look good to the person with the least education in the target group. That way it becomes more effective and more people buy into it.

That's why I'm seeing more people buying into the "utopian" Synthesis post EC than I did before. It's the same **** in a prettier box.

You may think I'm a knuckledragger. There is a big difference between transhumanism and this.Transhumanism is voluntary. Synthesis as described is not. Synthesis as described is ethically vile. It is cellular level rape.

Honestly, I think you are over-analyzing the original intent of the endings, but remember, this is just my opinion.  Kind of like a literal approach to a figurative scene.

Figuratively, and I believe this was their original intent - hence the vagueness of it all, you had two extremes and a middle ground:

Blue:  You control the badguy, thus becoming the badguy
Red:  You destroy the badguy, thus never learning your lesson and remaining unchanged
Green:  You attempt to understand each other

Literally, yes - rape at a molecular level.

Probably why they had to sugarcoat some of the endings because they figured people just weren't going to stop over-analyzing them ad-naseum.

[Taboo]

Jamie9 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

It does apply. It's art. It's marketed fascism. That's what it is.

It reminds me of propaganda films to be honest. It's repulsive.

It's fictional Taboo. Synthesis in Mass Effect does not carry the same conotations as it would in our society.

But seriously, am I the ONLY one who cares about the trillions of lives trapped within the Reapers??? Synthesis frees them.

It is facism when analyzed as such.

Yes, you've freed billions of souls...inside of a Reaper.

[Sylvianus]

Vexille wrote...
seriously, Synthesis is the dumbest ending ive ever seen in a video game

[Jamie9]

Taboo-XX wrote...

It is facism when analyzed as such.

Yes, you've freed billions of souls...inside of a Reaper.

It's Mass Effect. I presume the people trapped inside of a Reaper can live lives virtually, with the whole of their civilization. Like the Consensus of the Geth.

[thisisme8]

Taboo-XX wrote...

It is facism when analyzed as such.

Yes, you've freed billions of souls...inside of a Reaper.

Science fiction.  Souls.  Science fiction.  Souls.  I'm missing something here.

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Jamie9 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

It does apply. It's art. It's marketed fascism. That's what it is.

It reminds me of propaganda films to be honest. It's repulsive.

It's fictional Taboo. Synthesis in Mass Effect does not carry the same conotations as it would in our society.

But seriously, am I the ONLY one who cares about the trillions of lives trapped within the Reapers??? Synthesis frees them.

It is facism when analyzed as such.

Yes, you've freed billions of souls...inside of a Reaper.

And use it loosely, they're still souls trapped inside a Reaper. There are things worse than death.

[Taboo]

Jamie9 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

It is facism when analyzed as such.

Yes, you've freed billions of souls...inside of a Reaper.

It's Mass Effect. I presume the people trapped inside of a Reaper can live lives virtually, with the whole of their civilization. Like the Consensus of the Geth.

They do not take precedence over the other billions of souls who will be affected as well. They have been dead for a long, long time.

It's facism. When analyzed it recalls back to an idealized utopia in which the people are viewed through a populist eye glass. It's nothing more than a silly idea that no one did research on.

It is an idealist fantasy. It is crude. Unethical and monstrous.

[Jamie9]

Taboo-XX wrote...

They do not take precedence over the other billions of souls who will be affected as well. They have been dead for a long, long time.

It's facism. When analyzed it recalls back to an idealized utopia in which the people are viewed through a populist eye glass. It's nothing more than a silly idea that no one did research on.

It is an idealist fantasy. It is crude. Unethical and monstrous.

They don't take precedence over our cycle's inhabitants, but are equal (in my eyes, at least). There will still be arguments in synthesis. People still have differing opinions, as it should be.

I'm willing to choose an arguable moral choice if it can save trillions of lives. That's why I blew up the Relay in Arrival.

[Taboo]

Such beings were melted down, turned into a paste. They are a gestalt consciousness. What you have are living memories being used, there is no physical being attached to them.

Whatever they were, is long dead. This is even mentioned by the Catalyst. You use the knowledge from them. You do not resurrect dead beings.

[Jamie9]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Such beings were melted down, turned into a paste. They are a gestalt consciousness. What you have are living memories being used, there is no physical being attached to them.

Whatever they were, is long dead. This is even mentioned by the Catalyst. You use the knowledge from them. You do not resurrect dead beings.

But... but... the Lazarus Project. Dead people and their personalities can come back!

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

And the gestalt consciousness contains only pain like the memory shard of Javik's. They contain the memories of their being made into paste. They contain the memories of fear seeing those in front of them being turned into paste knowing that they are next. Yes. Touch those memories and scream. There are things worse than death. Let the dead rest.

[Taboo]

Jamie9 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Such beings were melted down, turned into a paste. They are a gestalt consciousness. What you have are living memories being used, there is no physical being attached to them.

Whatever they were, is long dead. This is even mentioned by the Catalyst. You use the knowledge from them. You do not resurrect dead beings.

But... but... the Lazarus Project. Dead people and their personalities can come back!

You have essentially allowed a library to espouse ramblings on past events. It's nothing more than a tape recorder using the memories of millions of dead beings.

They are not "alive" and they haven't been for thousands of years.

[Jamie9]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

And the gestalt consciousness contains only pain like the memory shard of Javik's. They contain the memories of their being made into paste. They contain the memories of fear seeing those in front of them being turned into paste knowing that they are next. Yes. Touch those memories and scream. There are things worse than death. Let the dead rest.

I agree with you. Presuming that there are sentient consciousness' (is that a thing?) in there, then I would give them the chance to live. They could easily "deactivate" themselves.

It's important I give them the option, however, which ironically completely contradicts synthesis.

[donosaur]

 A few things:

• From a narrative standpoint it is probably the weakest. That is some space magic of a magnitude we have never even SEEN before. If you want to hate on it for being a very hokey, feel-good ending, fair enough, it is that.
• I feel like people who claim it involves brainwashing and stagnation are really reaching.
• And what really disturbs me everytime I see it pop up every so many posts, the whole "without conflict there is no innovation thing" is really a weak and frightening argument. It ignores every advancement that has been made during times of peace and abundance and it validates a doctrine of constant war, which doesn't do anyone any good. Synthesis frees the galaxy from millions and millions of years of being bound to the reaper cycle. For the first time in who knows how long, it can progress to 50k years+, with the added boost of the lost millenia trapped up in the reapers' collective memory plus the evolutionary jumpstart from techno-organic integration.
• To me, the downsides to Synthesis are that Shepard dies (ala Legion) and that you have to be the representative of all organics, willing to say, "yeah sure, we're ready". The end-result of synthesis looks pretty damned sunny to me.

[Reorte]

Jamie9 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Such beings were melted down, turned into a paste. They are a gestalt consciousness. What you have are living memories being used, there is no physical being attached to them.

Whatever they were, is long dead. This is even mentioned by the Catalyst. You use the knowledge from them. You do not resurrect dead beings.

But... but... the Lazarus Project. Dead people and their personalities can come back!

Shepard was intact enough (with a rather large stretch of imagination). Turning someone into goo will destroy the brain and hence any personal memories. The most a Reaper can possibly be is a good represenation of a species' genetic spread and an encyclopaedia about the species. You could possibly clone or recreate the species from a Reaper but the individuals are dead and gone.

[Suspire]

Jamie9 wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

It does apply. It's art. It's marketed fascism. That's what it is.

It reminds me of propaganda films to be honest. It's repulsive.

It's fictional Taboo. Synthesis in Mass Effect does not carry the same conotations as it would in our society.

But seriously, am I the ONLY one who cares about the trillions of lives trapped within the Reapers??? Synthesis frees them.

I just think they'd rather finally be able to die, instead of living as the very things that harvested and destroyed their lives. IMO death is natural and part of life. There are many things worse than death.
Edit: ok didn't see people gave the same reply as me XD Sorry about that

Modifié par Suspire, 27 juin 2012 - 08:16 .

[Heeden]

Jamie9 wrote...

It's Mass Effect. I presume the people trapped inside of a Reaper can live lives virtually, with the whole of their civilization. Like the Consensus of the Geth.

It really saddens me that most people don't consider this, dismissing them as collateral damage is one thing but denying they are even worthy of consideration is awful.

[Suspire]

thisisme8 wrote...
Probably why they had to sugarcoat some of the endings because they figured people just weren't going to stop over-analyzing them ad-naseum.

I think this is exactly what they wanted people to do

[Heeden]

donosaur wrote...

• And what really disturbs me everytime I see it pop up every so many posts, the whole "without conflict there is no innovation thing" is really a weak and frightening argument. It ignores every advancement that has been made during times of peace and abundance and it validates a doctrine of constant war, which doesn't do anyone any good. Synthesis frees the galaxy from millions and millions of years of being bound to the reaper cycle. For the first time in who knows how long, it can progress to 50k years+, with the added boost of the lost millenia trapped up in the reapers' collective memory plus the evolutionary jumpstart from techno-organic integration.

Actually this is a pretty good consideration from within the ME lore. Mordin describes how often the need to struggle against something to innovate prepares a species to responsibly use the power they gain. The Krogan are a good example of what can go wrong with "uplift".

You have to consider of your galactic community is mature enough to handle this power and avoid either destruction or stagnation. It could be argued that the way everyone came together, accepted synthetics as allies against the Reapers and managed to build the Crucible is enough of a struggle to justify the uplift. I'm not entirely certain.

[Taboo]

Beings will never be ready for this. Ever.

It is not something that should even be touched.

[thisisme8]

Suspire wrote...

thisisme8 wrote...
Probably why they had to sugarcoat some of the endings because they figured people just weren't going to stop over-analyzing them ad-naseum.

I think this is exactly what they wanted people to do

I wonder if people gloss over my figurative vs. literal approach because it makes no sense, or because it makes too much sense. . .

Modifié par thisisme8, 27 juin 2012 - 08:22 .

[Heeden]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Beings will never be ready for this. Ever.

It is not something that should even be touched.

Yes they will, it would be awesome.

[Taboo]

Heeden wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Beings will never be ready for this. Ever.

It is not something that should even be touched.

Yes they will, it would be awesome.

That is not my decision to make. Said beings must choose to do it voluntarily.

The Catalyst suggests this, and that's okay with me. It MUST be done with a consensus.

[thisisme8]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Heeden wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Beings will never be ready for this. Ever.

It is not something that should even be touched.

Yes they will, it would be awesome.

That is not my decision to make. Said beings must choose to do it voluntarily.

The Catalyst suggests this, and that's okay with me. It MUST be done with a consensus.

So you're saying we should all be like the Geth and be machines and have consensus?