766 réponses à ce sujet

[Sousabird]

While I already argued your points earlier (too which you began whining that I "dfidn't read". which infact I did) I would like to say, Thane had probably one of the bigger non-squaddie ME2 character cameos, if anything people who romanced, Jack, Jacob, Samara, Morinth or Kelly got royally screwed. Now Thane's wasn't great but you sound really self entitled if you act like he's one of the worst LI's that gets continued. One thing I forgot to add in my last post, the reason Thane might not be afraid of dying again is because he saved the galaxy from the collectors and helped his lover make it out alive, now he's finally able to die and after reflecting on it in the time between the two games, he is less afraid because as he says he has lived 6 months of borrowed time and he loves it.

[BeanieBat]

For those who were happy with Thane's death (and I have nothing against those who think this), I would just like to say that for those of us who romanced Thane, it was very disappointing to only get one conversation with him before the Citadel coup. Especially because the conversation focused on his disease (that sounded like a different one from that described in ME2) and Thane acted almost indifferent towards Shepard (romanced). And while I don't think that having more content with Thane to fix this is enough for DLC itself (and would never expect such a thing anyway), I think it could be included in a larger DLC, along with content for the other ME2 LI's and integrated into a story that would be enjoyable for those who are not interested in romance/were happy with the romance already. (I say that, but I am not a writer and have no idea of the process involved, so forgive me if I have over simplified, however I believe BioWare could do such a thing based on what they accomplished in ME2). Anyway, my point is, it's not all about the fact that he died, there is more to it and it would be nice for people to consider that aspect too.

[English Cooper]

@Sousabird:

Samara turns you down in ME 2 - there was no real reason to expect her to change her mind.

Morinth - Kills you if you initiate an 'encounter'

Kelly Chambers - was never a full fledged LI to begin with, she had no real conversations about a relationship (Just flirting... a not seen dinner date) and she just came up and did a strip tease (more of an easter egg if anything.)

Jacob - no arguement that one was the worst.

Jack - Well again not great but she has a mission involving her, where you can discuss the relationship, just after the mission you do so again.. then on the Citidel you do so yet again.. and just before you enter the final stage of the game you speak to her again.

Thane - you speak to once (if romanced you kiss) then he dies (The Relationship version of his death-bed scene is almost exactly the same as if he was just a friend).. I'm not saying it was the worst but for a character that was designed to be a (Sexy Alien Love Interest) for a FemShep his Relationship Arc is... thin

[Sousabird]

English Cooper wrote...

@Sousabird:

Samara turns you down in ME 2 - there was no real reason to expect her to change her mind.

Morinth - Kills you if you initiate an 'encounter'

Kelly Chambers - was never a full fledged LI to begin with, she had no real conversations about a relationship (Just flirting... a not seen dinner date) and she just came up and did a strip tease (more of an easter egg if anything.)

Jacob - no arguement that one was the worst.

Jack - Well again not great but she has a mission involving her, where you can discuss the relationship, just after the mission you do so again.. then on the Citidel you do so yet again.. and just before you enter the final stage of the game you speak to her again.

Thane - you speak to once (if romanced you kiss) then he dies (The Relationship version of his death-bed scene is almost exactly the same as if he was just a friend).. I'm not saying it was the worst but for a character that was designed to be a (Sexy Alien Love Interest) for a FemShep his Relationship Arc is... thin

It's Thin yes, however my point was that he wasn't the worst.
Honestly I'm playing devil's advocate on this thread,
I wish there was more of everyone however,
I think Thane is one who has more then the rest so he
probably won't be most likely to get extra dlc

[LoonySpectre]

OK, I'm going to do a table of sorts. Shepard's decisions influencing the fate of his/her squadmates.
Liara
Can be romanced.
Lives throughout the entire series no matter what Shepard does.


Ashley/Kaidan
Can be romanced.
One of them inevitably dies in ME1 on Virmire. Shepard gets to choose who.
Can die in ME3 if Shepard can't talk them down during the Cerberus coup.

Tali
Can be romanced.
Can die in ME2 during the Suicide Mission.
Can die in ME3 if Shepard sides with the geth (her stand-in dies as well).

Garrus
Can be romanced in ME2 if recruited in ME1.
Can die in ME2 during the Suicide Mission. If alive, survives ME3 no matter what.

Wrex
Can die in ME1 if Shepard can't talk him down on Virmire.
Dies somewhere between ME1 and ME2 if not recruited in ME1.
Can die in ME3 if Shepard sabotages the genophage cure.

Miranda
Can be romanced. Dies in ME3 inevitably if Shepard breaks up with her.
Can die in ME2 during the Suicide Mission.
Can die in ME3 if Shepard doesn't warn her against Kai Leng and give her the requested resources.

Jacob
Can be romanced. Breaks up with Shepard in ME3 no matter what.

Can die in ME2 during the Suicide Mission. If alive, survives ME3 no matter what.


Mordin
Can die in ME2 during the Suicide Mission.
Can die in ME3. Doesn't die only if Wrex and Eve both dead and Shepard sabotaging the genophage cure. The same is true for his stand-in Padok Wiks.

Jack
Can be romanced.
Can die in ME2 during the Suicide Mission.
Can die in ME3 if Shepard doesn't come to the Grissom Academy in time.

Grunt
Can be left in the tank in ME2.
Can die in ME2 during the Suicide Mission.
Can die in ME3 if his loyalty mission is not done. His stand-in dies no matter what.

Zaeed
Can die in ME2 during the Suicide Mission.
Can be left for dead in ME2 if his loyalty mission done after the Suicide Mission.
Can die in ME3 if his loyalty mission is not done.

Kasumi
Can die in ME2 during the Suicide Mission.
Can die in ME3 if her loyalty mission is not done.

Samara
Can die in ME2 if betrayed for Morinth.
Can die in ME2 during the Suicide Mission.
Can die in ME3 if allowed to shoot herself.

Morinth
Can die in ME2 (the Paragon outcome of Samara's loyalty mission).
Dies in ME3 (indoctrinated, made into Banshee and killed by Shepard in London).

Thane
Can be romanced.
Can die in ME2 during the Suicide Mission. If alive, dies in ME3 (either complications after being stabbed by Kai Leng or completely offscreen).

Legion
Can die in ME2 during the Suicide Mission.
Dies in ME3 (either by disseminating himself into the geth collective, stabbed by Tali, shot by Shala'Raan or shot by Shepard at the Cerberus base)

James and Javik survive ME3 anyway.

So, doesn't Thane kinda stand out?

[Julia_xo]

English Cooper wrote...

@Sousabird:

Samara turns you down in ME 2 - there was no real reason to expect her to change her mind.

Morinth - Kills you if you initiate an 'encounter'

Kelly Chambers - was never a full fledged LI to begin with, she had no real conversations about a relationship (Just flirting... a not seen dinner date) and she just came up and did a strip tease (more of an easter egg if anything.)

Jacob - no arguement that one was the worst.

Jack - Well again not great but she has a mission involving her, where you can discuss the relationship, just after the mission you do so again.. then on the Citidel you do so yet again.. and just before you enter the final stage of the game you speak to her again.

Thane - you speak to once (if romanced you kiss) then he dies (The Relationship version of his death-bed scene is almost exactly the same as if he was just a friend).. I'm not saying it was the worst but for a character that was designed to be a (Sexy Alien Love Interest) for a FemShep his Relationship Arc is... thin

Well said. Also neither Thane or Jacob even merit an achievement. At least Jack is acknowledged as a real romance (she nets the achievement) and the relationship can be continued if Shepard survives. The possibility exists, at any rate.

With Thane and Jacob there's no hope at all. One just dumps you and gets someone else pregant and the other dies without closure for the relationship. My Shepard couldn't even tell Thane she loved him and after he died it seemed like she just forgot about him. It's like you said, Bioware claimed Thane was created to appeal to women and be a LI but then they turned around and neglected his romance arc in the final game? Doesn't make much sense at all.

[Dendio1]

@loony

Morinth and Jacob stand out to me.

Jacob is the only one who breaks up with shep
Morinth is the only one doomed to a terrible death

Modifié par Dendio1, 30 juin 2012 - 09:32 .

[Sousabird]

Julia_xo wrote...

English Cooper wrote...

@Sousabird:

Samara turns you down in ME 2 - there was no real reason to expect her to change her mind.

Morinth - Kills you if you initiate an 'encounter'

Kelly Chambers - was never a full fledged LI to begin with, she had no real conversations about a relationship (Just flirting... a not seen dinner date) and she just came up and did a strip tease (more of an easter egg if anything.)

Jacob - no arguement that one was the worst.

Jack - Well again not great but she has a mission involving her, where you can discuss the relationship, just after the mission you do so again.. then on the Citidel you do so yet again.. and just before you enter the final stage of the game you speak to her again.

Thane - you speak to once (if romanced you kiss) then he dies (The Relationship version of his death-bed scene is almost exactly the same as if he was just a friend).. I'm not saying it was the worst but for a character that was designed to be a (Sexy Alien Love Interest) for a FemShep his Relationship Arc is... thin

Well said. Also neither Thane or Jacob even merit an achievement. At least Jack is acknowledged as a real romance (she nets the achievement) and the relationship can be continued if Shepard survives. The possibility exists, at any rate.

With Thane and Jacob there's no hope at all. One just dumps you and gets someone else pregant and the other dies without closure for the relationship. My Shepard couldn't even tell Thane she loved him and after he died it seemed like she just forgot about him. It's like you said, Bioware claimed Thane was created to appeal to women and be a LI but then they turned around and neglected his romance arc in the final game? Doesn't make much sense at all.

To be fair according to Thane himself he should have been dead 6 months ago so he probably wouldn't have had anymore of a reunion or such

[Sousabird]

Dendio1 wrote...

@loony

Morinth and Jacob stand out to me.

Jacob is the only one who breaks up with shep
Morinth is the only one doomed to a terrible death

The terrible death being Shep shooting her

[shodiswe]

The only thing that could possibly have saved Thane from a slow painful death would have been synthesis and the massive science and knowledge increas that brings.

[English Cooper]

I agree with you I wish there was more of them all, this thread however has remained generaly civil which is why I decided to post here.. Rather than any special love I hold for Thane.. My favourite character of ME 2 was Samara -but she wasn't a LI (and people seemed to not like her much if I recall) so I never actually held out much hope she would be in it for any substantial ammount.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

I think what people are really saying is they'd want some bonus scenes for jack, miranda, and thane during the romance opportunity before the attack on cerberus base.

thatd be totally sweet for a thane rememberence but I dont know how it'd work for jack and miranda unless they joined the crew.


I think it'd have been awesome if your dead friends started showing up in shepard's dreams and at the catalyst scene at the end but memory restrictions would probably make that difficult (especially when you consider its possible to have 18 people who have joined your squad be dead by the time you reach that part of ME3) with how hard it was for bioware to fit 6 characters into memory with animations at the end of ME3 I can see it being difficult to put them in the ghost kid bits, especially if they'd have to start picking who does and doesnt get a scene to save on memory

[Dendio1]

Sousabird wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

@loony

Morinth and Jacob stand out to me.

Jacob is the only one who breaks up with shep
Morinth is the only one doomed to a terrible death

The terrible death being Shep shooting her

Death by shepard is something only a few squadmates endure and its optional for everyone but morinth
To make things worse poor morinth undergoes the insanity of indoctrination, then has her body altered irrevocably

Top it off with zero screen time, and I wonder if there was a failure to reach her voice actor or if they just forgot about her until the final hours.

Modifié par Dendio1, 30 juin 2012 - 09:41 .

[BeanieBat]

Sousabird wrote...

To be fair according to Thane himself he should have been dead 6 months ago so he probably wouldn't have had anymore of a reunion or such

If you go by what he tells you in ME3, which is different from what he tells you in ME2.  If you take what he says in ME2 to be true (which I personally do, as that is when BioWare put more effort into his character) then he is still expected to live for months.

[Sousabird]

BeanieBat wrote...

Sousabird wrote...

To be fair according to Thane himself he should have been dead 6 months ago so he probably wouldn't have had anymore of a reunion or such

If you go by what he tells you in ME3, which is different from what he tells you in ME2.  If you take what he says in ME2 to be true (which I personally do, as that is when BioWare put more effort into his character) then he is still expected to live for months.

Mass Effect 2 didn't lead directly into ME3 there was a time lag, and it was his own estimate not a doctors, also if he were still on the citadel... I would feel sorry for him

[Sousabird]

Dendio1 wrote...

Sousabird wrote...

Dendio1 wrote...

@loony

Morinth and Jacob stand out to me.

Jacob is the only one who breaks up with shep
Morinth is the only one doomed to a terrible death

The terrible death being Shep shooting her

Death by shepard is something only a few squadmates endure and its optional for everyone but morinth
To make things worse poor morinth undergoes the insanity of indoctrination, then has her body altered irrevocably

Top it off with zero screen time, and I wonder if there was a failure to reach her voice actor or if they just forgot about her until the final hours.

To be fair, why were you keeping the mass murderer alive for ME3? (I did once but honestly I regret it)

[Julia_xo]

BeanieBat wrote...

Sousabird wrote...

To be fair according to Thane himself he should have been dead 6 months ago so he probably wouldn't have had anymore of a reunion or such

If you go by what he tells you in ME3, which is different from what he tells you in ME2.  If you take what he says in ME2 to be true (which I personally do, as that is when BioWare put more effort into his character) then he is still expected to live for months.

Yeah, plus you can even discuss the possibility of going on a vacation with Thane after the SM, if romanced (he wanted to visit a desert) . Doesn't seem like he was expecting to drop dead right after, if he survived the SM.

That 3 months to live 9 months ago line he says in ME3 was a surprise to me. It felt like the writers were worsening his condition to accomodate their desire to force his death as early as possible in-game. 9 months ago he was on the Normandy helping Shep fight the Collectors. I'd also like to know when he found time to visit all those doctors while he was on the Normandy helping Shepard fight or why it never came up in ME2.

[Sousabird]

Julia_xo wrote...

BeanieBat wrote...

Sousabird wrote...

To be fair according to Thane himself he should have been dead 6 months ago so he probably wouldn't have had anymore of a reunion or such

If you go by what he tells you in ME3, which is different from what he tells you in ME2.  If you take what he says in ME2 to be true (which I personally do, as that is when BioWare put more effort into his character) then he is still expected to live for months.

Yeah, plus you can even discuss the possibility of going on a vacation with Thane after the SM, if romanced (he wanted to visit a desert) . Doesn't seem like he was expecting to drop dead right after, if he survived the SM.

That 3 months to live 9 months ago line he says in ME3 was a surprise to me. It felt like the writers were worsening his condition to accomodate their desire to force his death as early as possible in-game. 9 months ago he was on the Normandy helping Shep fight the Collectors. I'd also like to know when he found time to visit all those doctors while he was on the Normandy helping Shepard fight or why it never came up in ME2.

He said less then a year in the Normandy (I believe) and the vacation probably got cut short by Shepard being arrested, ya know... flight risk

[BeanieBat]

Sousabird wrote...

BeanieBat wrote...

Sousabird wrote...

To be fair according to Thane himself he should have been dead 6 months ago so he probably wouldn't have had anymore of a reunion or such

If you go by what he tells you in ME3, which is different from what he tells you in ME2.  If you take what he says in ME2 to be true (which I personally do, as that is when BioWare put more effort into his character) then he is still expected to live for months.

Mass Effect 2 didn't lead directly into ME3 there was a time lag, and it was his own estimate not a doctors, also if he were still on the citadel... I would feel sorry for him

You don't know that it was his own estimate and not a doctors,  he didn't say either way.  It is my understanding that the time between ME2 and ME3 was only 6 months.  Other people have looked into this more than I have though (I have just picked up bits here and there), so I shall leave it to them to discuss it more with you if they wish as I'm afraid I can't have a proper discussion with you on this matter.

Edit: Just to add, he said 8-12 months when you recruit him in ME2.

Modifié par BeanieBat, 30 juin 2012 - 10:05 .

[LoonySpectre]

And he said it's 8-12 months until he's "incapacitated" (that is, presumably, unable to fight well enough to be of any help).

[RShara]

For those of you new to this thread, I've bulletpointed the reasons Thanemancers are upset here:
[url=http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/355/index/12868447]


Bullet point list:

1. There was no cure, despite CDN mention of Medigel for the lungs, the hanar cure, and Thane's transplant candidacy, mentioned in ME2 and Lair of the Shadow Broker.
2. Thane was not at peace with his death. He was not prepared to die. He was never destined to die.
3. He did not go out with "a bang," the heroic death that he wanted (if not romanced). A cure would not trivialize his death.
4. There's barely any difference between a friendShep's dialogue and a romanceShep's. THANE DOES NOT EVEN UNLOCK THE PARAMOUR ACHIEVEMENT!
5. There's no shared mission with Thane. The side mission that really should have been his went to... Kasumi??
6. The death scene was impersonal, the same for both friendShep and a romanceShep's.
7. After he died, no one save Kai-Leng mentioned Thane's name again. No chance for Shepard to mourn or talk about him with others, romanced or not.

[Laser-Eyes]

I would be very happy if there was a Thane DLC. I didn't like that he died, but I would probably hate ME3 less if he at least died later in the game or at least had any amount of significant presence in the game. Straight femsheps got screwed horribly. They totally butchered Thane and Jacob.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

the thane death scene I feel like they wrote FOR the romance and it was the neutral response that got the cop out. I felt it was really emotional for someone whome I had no strong feelings for.


I think people should chikkity-check themselves before they wriggity-wreck themselves. :-/!

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

RShara wrote...
3. He did not go out with "a bang," the heroic death that he wanted (if not romanced). A cure would not trivialize his death.
4. There's barely any difference between a friendShep's dialogue and a romanceShep's. THANE DOES NOT EVEN UNLOCK THE PARAMOUR ACHIEVEMENT!
5. There's no shared mission with Thane. The side mission that really should have been his went to... Kasumi??
6. The death scene was impersonal, the same for both friendShep and a romanceShep's.
7. After he died, no one save Kai-Leng mentioned Thane's name again. No chance for Shepard to mourn or talk about him with others, romanced or not.
[/b]

Dieing to save the life of one of the most important people IN THE GALAXY is PRETTY heroic.  thats the defenition of heroism.  If you died to save the president you'd probably get a ****ing statue or something in your honor.


The hanar mission totally shoulda been thane's though now that you mention it.  jesus christ.  Not as a replacement for his awesome scene with kai leng, but as a modifier to how his Priority: Citadel II inclusion and wrap up would work.  Lamenting the fall of the Hanar homeworld or reveling in his success protecting them while apologizing for leaving shepard now during tryng times...but then again the hanar diplomat mission kinda sucked and was SUPER SILLY.  It almost felt like something out of south park.  (In the way that south park throws big things arround all willy nilly and kills fifty in each episode, not in terms of quality of writing)

The death scene was MORE personal, the only thing was that it wasnt made less personal for friendshep.  It was WRITTEN for romance shep and then they didnt do a lesser alternative.  People are probably mad that it wasnt a special thing, but i'm glad that its in there for everyone, reguardless.  You shouldnt look at the numbers too much or you stop appreciating the story and characters.  The first time you saw thane's death it hit you really hard.  being upset that it wasnt wholly unique to you is petty and demanding.

Also I dont really see who shepard would have talked to.  The point of the suicide mission was bringing together all these people that mostly didnt care about eachother or like eachother.  Its wierd enough when Samara calls garrus by name if you bring him to the monestary.  I think it would be cool if you got to meet up with his son in a DLC and talk to him deeply about it if you play it after Citadel II.  That'd be pretty sweet and probably the only way to address this without comprimising the act or the character himself.  (thane)



Even if we dont get big tributes for thane, jack, and miranda that we would like to see in DLC for contract and ligistics reasons, it'd be cool to get to know them more from other characters and scenarios that have to do with characters that didnt make it in (ME2 characters, me1 characters that werent in 3...)  I think its super weird that jacob is the big survivor of the me2 group.  Other than zaeed he's the only one that hangs out on the citadel forever, and he's one of the few that cant die in this game.  I think when they were looking at the numbers of who survived the SM the most they thought that Jacob was a big hit (he had a leadin with that iphone game) and might have been on the table for returning squadmates but when they saw people didnt really care about him that much they kinda went "oh".


If they didnt put so much emphasis on tech expert and stealth alot of people probably would have sent him into the vents (he gets that leadin) and then been "Oh well at least the boring guy is the one who died" when he got shot.

oops forgot to talk about thane.
thanes super cool and i wanna kiss him.

Modifié par Doctor_Jackstraw, 01 juillet 2012 - 12:22 .

[TrveOmegaSlayer]

Thane cured than dying would have been even greater storywise.
All the efforts to keep him alive wasted...