766 réponses à ce sujet

[jumpingkaede]

RShara wrote...

jumpingkaede wrote...

Perhaps it would've been better if Bioware just said Thane was afflicted with Uncureabalitis.  

Isn't that what they did?

Then what  exactly is your complaint?   It's uncureable.  That means there is no cure.  So it doesn't matter if there is a cure today outside of Mass Effect.

"But... it's preposterous that there's no cure!!"

Then it's preposterous but all the same there is no cure.  But what I meant was perhaps Bioware should've left it unclear exactly how Uncurabalitis worked.  Then we wouldn't have this discussion of how a fictional problem in a fictional universe should be fictionally curable.

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 05 juillet 2012 - 08:39 .

[RShara]

Okay, how can I explain this?

Thane has incurablitis.
1. This is a bad plot device.
2. A CURE IS BEING WORKED ON--Thane only "doubts" it will be ready in time to save him. This doubt is no greater or less than the genophage maybe needing YEARS to cure.
3. Thane is eligible for a LUNG TRANSPLANT-Stated repeatedly. This would VERY EASILY extend his life long enough for a cure to be completed.
4. Thane being cured or life-extended is NO MORE implausible than Tali, genophage, Keiji, and is MUCH MORE plausible than those mentioned above.

[M. Hanky]

plot device or no, it's how it happened in the game, and Bioware most likely won't change it. may as well move on, try a different romance, etc. they kinda ruined my favorite romance too, so I had to try something new too, and I'm actually pretty happy with the different choices, personally.

Modifié par M. Hanky, 05 juillet 2012 - 08:44 .

[RShara]

No, we won't give up, because it's something we feel strongly about. We'll continue our campaign until Bioware LISTENS to what we're saying.

No, we're not demanding anything. But we will be heard and our message is that we protest the treatment that Thane received and we HOPE for equal and respectful treatment.

I don't know who you romanced, but I would fight equally for your right to equal treatment.  The way the ME2 romances went down was ridiculous, and I think that they all need reworking, but ESPECIALY Jacob and Thane.

Modifié par RShara, 05 juillet 2012 - 08:48 .

[BeanieBat]

With regards to Thane's disease - I would just like to point out again that it seemed to be a completely different disease from what was described in ME2, which to me just emphasizes how much his character was neglected in ME3 - they couldn't even remember what his disease was.

Now, personally, I probably would have been ok with Thane dying, provided that we got to have some meaningful discussions with him beforehand, rather than just focusing on his disease. And if he had died fighting like a hero. However, while the fight with KL might appear to be heroic on the surface, there are several issues I've noticed with the scene that actually make Thane look incompetent beyond what would be caused by his poor health (in my opinion). And that to me, diminishes his character as a master assassin (again, I am taking his poor health into consideration with my analysis and this is only my opinion).

Basically, I would love for his character inconsistencies between ME2 and ME3 to be fixed and I am really disappointed that they were there to begin with.

[M. Hanky]

RShara wrote...

No, we won't give up, because it's something we feel strongly about. We'll continue our campaign until Bioware LISTENS to what we're saying.

No, we're not demanding anything. But we will be heard and our message is that we protest the treatment that Thane received and we HOPE for equal and respectful treatment.

I don't know who you romanced, but I would fight equally for your right to equal treatment.  The way the ME2 romances went down was ridiculous, and I think that they all need reworking, but ESPECIALY Jacob and Thane.

but isn't that demanding by definition?

[RShara]

If there had been the opportunity to discuss with Thane life-extension treatments, or even spoken to Chakwas/Michel/Mordin about assistance in curing it, and Thane's reasons why he had returned to his resigned state, then it wouldn't have been a character reversal, and we wouldn't be so pissed about it (although we'd probably still be pissed, we wouldn't be AS pissed)

[M. Hanky]

BeanieBat wrote...

With regards to Thane's disease - I would just like to point out again that it seemed to be a completely different disease from what was described in ME2, which to me just emphasizes how much his character was neglected in ME3 - they couldn't even remember what his disease was.

Now, personally, I probably would have been ok with Thane dying, provided that we got to have some meaningful discussions with him beforehand, rather than just focusing on his disease. And if he had died fighting like a hero. However, while the fight with KL might appear to be heroic on the surface, there are several issues I've noticed with the scene that actually make Thane look incompetent beyond what would be caused by his poor health (in my opinion). And that to me, diminishes his character as a master assassin (again, I am taking his poor health into consideration with my analysis and this is only my opinion).

Basically, I would love for his character inconsistencies between ME2 and ME3 to be fixed and I am really disappointed that they were there to begin with.

but I thought that fight was epic!!!! the rest, I can agree with you on. they should have put more meaningful dialogue in there, especially for thanemancers.

[RShara]

M. Hanky wrote...

RShara wrote...

No, we won't give up, because it's something we feel strongly about. We'll continue our campaign until Bioware LISTENS to what we're saying.

No, we're not demanding anything. But we will be heard and our message is that we protest the treatment that Thane received and we HOPE for equal and respectful treatment.

I don't know who you romanced, but I would fight equally for your right to equal treatment.  The way the ME2 romances went down was ridiculous, and I think that they all need reworking, but ESPECIALY Jacob and Thane.

but isn't that demanding by definition?

Protesting and politely asking, with reasons and arguments and alternatives is not DEMANDING.

Here's the difference:

Demand:
You will cure Thane or I will <favorite threat here>

Fight/Request:
We would really like to have Thane cured, or his life extended.  Here are our reasons, here are suggestions on how it could go, here are signatures and books and images and posters showing how much we support this idea.

[Renmiri1]

jumpingkaede wrote...
Perhaps it would've been better if Bioware just said Thane was afflicted with Uncureabalitis.  

M. Hanky wrote...

plot device or no, it's how it happened in the game, and Bioware most likely won't change it. may as well move on, try a different romance, etc. they kinda ruined my favorite romance too, so I had to try something new too, and I'm actually pretty happy with the different choices, personally.

 

So basically...

Thane can't be cured because.. Shut Up, that's why!

This game is mine and bioware and I like it. You are stoopid and should have chose another character. (And should have guessed how bioware would treat him in ME3)


I have news for you two and all the other drive by posters that don't bother to know the character or read about him from people who took the time to know him.

You are not changing my mind by telling me HOW to play me game, WHO to befriend or LI and  HOW to feel about the way the story and female fans have been treated in ME3. What you doing is showing your selfishness and unwillingness to empathyse with anyone else.

You are not stopping me from posting here, no matter how many times you post that drivel. If you can't make an effort to inform yourself and try to put yourself in someone elses's shoes, you are not changing my mind. You are wasting your time. And making the post count grow which is good for the thread, so keep at it. 

Modifié par Renmiri1, 05 juillet 2012 - 08:57 .

[RShara]

Thane can't be cured because he wasn't cured. That's basically the argument I'm seeing over and over.

Just like synthetics will destroy organics because organics will create synthetics that will destroy organics.

[M. Hanky]

but refusing to "give up" until you get what you want is demanding. have you tried a different romance? you should, it can be quite refreshing. me, I always went for Ashley before. I never tried anything else. I was rather dissapointed with how the ashley-mance was treated in ME3 (quite horribly, btw, almost as little substance as the Thane-mance), but I moved on, tried Liara, and Tali, and I actually quite like the both of them.

[M. Hanky]

Renmiri1 wrote...

jumpingkaede wrote...
Perhaps it would've been better if Bioware just said Thane was afflicted with Uncureabalitis.  

M. Hanky wrote...

plot device or no, it's how it happened in the game, and Bioware most likely won't change it. may as well move on, try a different romance, etc. they kinda ruined my favorite romance too, so I had to try something new too, and I'm actually pretty happy with the different choices, personally.

 

So basically...

Thane can't be cured because.. Shut Up, that's why!

This game is mine and bioware and I like it. You are stoopid and should have chose another character. (And should have guessed how bioware would treat him in ME3)


I have news for you two and all the other drive by posters that don't bother to know the character or read about him from people who took the time to know him.

You are not changing my mind by telling me HOW to play me game, WHO to befriend or LI and  HOW to feel about the way the story and female fans have been treated in ME3. What you doing is showing your selfishness and unwillingness to empathyse with anyone else.

You are not stopping me from posting here, no matter how many times you post that drivel. If you can't make an effort to inform yourself and try to put yourself in someone elses's shoes, you are not changing my mind. You are wasting your time. And making the post count grow which is good for the thread, so keep at it. 

calm down, no one's attacking you by posting their opinions. it's possible to have a civil discussion here.

[RShara]

I romanced Kaidan my first ME1 and 2 playthroughs. I played my Thane pt first, and just didn't even care enough to try Kaidans.

Also....hey look YOU HAVE OPTIONS FOR OTHER ROMANCES!

We get...Kaidan (if he's alive) and Garrus (if you romanced him in ME2).

....yeah

[jumpingkaede]

Renmiri1 wrote...

So basically...

Thane can't be cured because.. Shut Up, that's why!

That's basically how things work.  Now, if you want to point me to, say, where somewhere in the Mass Effect universe they cured a similar afflictiono founded on similar principles, then maybe we'd have something to work with?

This game is mine and bioware and I like it. You are stoopid and should have chose another character. (And should have guessed how bioware would treat him in ME3)

Bioware (and Thane by extension) made it clear that his life was short-lived?  That was the driving motivation behind Thane's character in all of ME2: joining the Suicide Mission, reconnecting with his son, making peace with his life as a weapon for assassinations.

I agree that Thane "forgetting" about Shepard makes no sense (it makes no sense with any of the ME2 love-interests for that matter).  

But as for the rest, by all accounts Thane should have been dead already by the events of ME3.  

Would it be better if, say, you had an option to talk Thane into the lung transplant and he agrees so he has extra time to spend with you... and then he gets killed during the fight?  (Serious question).

You are not changing my mind by HOW to play me game, WHO to befriend or LI and  HOW to feel about the way the story and female fans have been treated in ME3. What you doing is showing your selfishness and unwillingness to empathyse with anyone else.

You are not stopping me from posting here, no matter how many times you post that drivel. If you can't make an effort to inform yourself and try to put yourself in someone elses's shoes, you are not changing my mind. You are wasting your time. And making the post count grow which is good for the thread, so keep at it. 

Not sure why you think any of that but for my part, I have no desire to change your mind on how to play the game or who to befriend, etc.  Nor do I have any desire to stop you from posting in this thread.

[Renmiri1]

Unfortunately I did not have the foresight to romance Garrus and Kaidan is dead on my playtrhough.

I'm not gay, so who do you suggest I romance in ME3 ?

Female fans can either go lesbo or stay without LI.

Fun, no ?

It is another reason we are SO pissed off. Female fans were shafted. Female lesbian romance is there to appeal to male teens. Lesbian women just got lucky they like the same stuff men like.

We come here to protest and we get told to get over it, go lesbo, or stop playing those man games. Go play Barbie online like a proper girl...

Modifié par Renmiri1, 05 juillet 2012 - 09:02 .

[RShara]

When you recruit Thane, he says he has ~12 months more of effective life. Then the last half of ME2 happens. Then Shepard is imprisoned for 6 months.

Then Thane says, "I was told I had 3 months to live...9 months ago."
....what?

[BeanieBat]

M. Hanky wrote...

BeanieBat wrote...

With regards to Thane's disease - I would just like to point out again that it seemed to be a completely different disease from what was described in ME2, which to me just emphasizes how much his character was neglected in ME3 - they couldn't even remember what his disease was.

Now, personally, I probably would have been ok with Thane dying, provided that we got to have some meaningful discussions with him beforehand, rather than just focusing on his disease. And if he had died fighting like a hero. However, while the fight with KL might appear to be heroic on the surface, there are several issues I've noticed with the scene that actually make Thane look incompetent beyond what would be caused by his poor health (in my opinion). And that to me, diminishes his character as a master assassin (again, I am taking his poor health into consideration with my analysis and this is only my opinion).

Basically, I would love for his character inconsistencies between ME2 and ME3 to be fixed and I am really disappointed that they were there to begin with.

but I thought that fight was epic!!!! the rest, I can agree with you on. they should have put more meaningful dialogue in there, especially for thanemancers.

Ok, up until Thane's biotic b**** slap against KL, I'd agree... but then why is he suddenly so incompetent with his gun?  He seems to miss KL completely, from close range!  Yes, I know KL has shields etc, but when you fight him later in the game, it really doesn't take much to get him to do his little recharge thing.  So why didn't he need to recharge his shields if he was being pelted with bullets by Thane?  Thane must have been missing... I know he wasn't on top form, but it was such close range, how could he miss?!  And then when he went and ran into KL's sword, he shot KL in the head but nothing happened to KL (someone has screenshots to show this, I forget where)...  I guess I'd understand a bit more if KL weren't so easy to kill later on...  But the main issue I have with the fight scene, is why, WHY is Shepard and his/her squad just standing back and watching?

So yeah, I can see what they were trying to do with it, but I just think a few things were overlooked that ruined it for me personally =[  

[M. Hanky]

RShara wrote...

I romanced Kaidan my first ME1 and 2 playthroughs. I played my Thane pt first, and just didn't even care enough to try Kaidans.

Also....hey look YOU HAVE OPTIONS FOR OTHER ROMANCES!

We get...Kaidan (if he's alive) and Garrus (if you romanced him in ME2).

....yeah

I've said it before, I agree, femshep's should get more heterosexual options. they did kinda get the shaft. I'm just not so sure that Thane needs to be that outlet as I view his death as neccesary, and you disagree with that, and that's fine. But in all honesty, Garrus is a great guy, even though he's ugly. just because he's not a pretty alien doesn't make him not awesome. If I played femshep Garrus would prolly be my #1 pic as he seems most compatible with shep.

[BeanieBat]

Yeah not much choice of LI's for straight FemShep, only Kaidan if he is alive and I did romance him on one playthrough (mainly for the achievement, if I'm being honest). I find him rather dull...

Edit: Also, I'd choose Garrus second afterThane but that would still mean having to have romanced him in ME2 if you want to romance him in ME3...

Modifié par BeanieBat, 05 juillet 2012 - 09:09 .

[M. Hanky]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Unfortunately I did not have the foresight to romance Garrus and Kaidan is dead on my playtrhough.

I'm not gay, so who do you suggest I romance in ME3 ?

Female fans can either go lesbo or stay without LI.

Fun, no ?

It is another reason we are SO pissed off. Female fans were shafted. Female lesbian romance is there to appeal to male teens. Lesbian women just got lucky they like the same stuff men like.

We come here to protest and we get told to get over it, go lesbo, or stop playing those man games. Go play Barbie online like a proper girl...

I've never said any of those things and most of the rage seems to be directed towards me. I agree you should have more options, bioware screwed up there. I just think they made it pretty dang obvious Thane would die and that there shouldn't be a whole ton of surprise there.

[jumpingkaede]

RShara wrote...

Thane can't be cured because he wasn't cured. That's basically the argument I'm seeing over and over.

You mistake the argument.

That Kepral's Syndrome is incurable is simply a proposition (or perhaps a premise) that was set within the game's narrative.

The argument if there is one, I suppose, is that Thane wasn't cured because he can't be cured.  So perhaps something like:  Kepral's Syndrome is uncurable.  Thane has Kepral's Syndrome.  Therefore,  Thane is uncurable.  

Something like that.  Again, it's not really an argument.

Just like synthetics will destroy organics because organics will create synthetics that will destroy organics.

I'm not sure you have that one right either.  The meme is:

"I'm going to create synthetics to destroy organics to prevent synthetics from destroying organics."

The actual problem with the ME3 logic is that it introduces a premise (i.e. synthetics will always kill organics) which is contradicted by the prior experiences (i.e. Geth do not always kill Quarians).

For comparison's sake, it would be as if you met another Drell who had Kepral's Syndrome in ME2 and he was cured of it.

[Renmiri1]

@jumpingkade

You refuse to get informed. This is the last time I will bother to answer one of your posts, if you keep on banging on the same misinformed tripe.

Thane on ME2 had 8-12 months before being "incapacitated", as he assured Sheppard. That means he was able to fight at his best for 8-12 months. This is 6 months later.

Why ARE you here anyway ? To repeatly type walls of text with misinformed opinions that you refuse to amend and educate yourself about after being presented with facts ?

Well, unlike you, I'm not about to tell you how to spend your time. You are free to keep posting this stuff but your credibility will go down to zero if you keep on ignoring any information that is brought up here. Makes you look like a fool. But hey, if you like that, who am I to tell you how to spend YOUR time ? I just refuse to take advice from you on how to spend MINE, until you at least learn to listen to others.

[RShara]

Epic Fight: Scene 1
KL Stands facing Sal C. Power glows in his palm. Suddenly, a gun is pointed at his head ready to shoot. It is held by Thane. For some reason he doesn't shoot, but instead stands there until Kai Leng turns and bats him away.

[jumpingkaede]

RShara wrote...

When you recruit Thane, he says he has ~12 months more of effective life. Then the last half of ME2 happens. Then Shepard is imprisoned for 6 months.

Then Thane says, "I was told I had 3 months to live...9 months ago."
....what?

Why is that confusing?  Using fictitious dates and years:

January 2011:  Thane tells you he has 12 more months to live.  (Expected death December 2011)

September 2011:  Thane sees a doctor who tells him he has 3 more months to live.  (Expected death December 2011)

December 2011:  Shepard is imprisoned.

June 2012:  Thane says "I was told nine months ago (September 2011) that I only had three more months to live (Expected death December 2011).

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 05 juillet 2012 - 09:09 .