766 réponses à ce sujet

[jumpingkaede]

Renmiri1 wrote...

@jumpingkade

You refuse to get informed. This is the last time I will bother to answer one of your posts, if you keep on banging on the same misinformed tripe.

Thane on ME2 had 8-12 months before being "incapacitated", as he assured Sheppard. That means he was able to fight at his best for 8-12 months. This is 6 months later.

Seeing as how you aren't responding I guess you won't be able to set up a timeline for which that wouldn't work.

Why ARE you here anyway ? To repeatly type walls of text with misinformed opinions that you refuse to amend and educate yourself about after being presented with facts ?

What facts are you referring to?

Well, unlike you, I'm not about to tell you how to spend your time. You are free to keep posting this stuff but your credibility will go down to zero if you keep on ignoring any information that is brought up here. Makes you look like a fool. But hey, if you like that, who am I to tell you how to spend YOUR time ? I just refuse to take advice from you on how to spend MINE, until you at least learn to listen to others.

Curiously, for not telling me how to spend my time that seems to be exactly what you're doing.

I'm not sure why you think I'm advising you on how to spend your time but again, I assure you that I had no intention of doing such a thing.

[RShara]

jumpingkaede wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

So basically...

Thane can't be cured because.. Shut Up, that's why!

That's basically how things work.  Now, if you want to point me to, say, where somewhere in the Mass Effect universe they cured a similar afflictiono founded on similar principles, then maybe we'd have something to work with?

This game is mine and bioware and I like it. You are stoopid and should have chose another character. (And should have guessed how bioware would treat him in ME3)

Bioware (and Thane by extension) made it clear that his life was short-lived?  That was the driving motivation behind Thane's character in all of ME2: joining the Suicide Mission, reconnecting with his son, making peace with his life as a weapon for assassinations.

I agree that Thane "forgetting" about Shepard makes no sense (it makes no sense with any of the ME2 love-interests for that matter).  

But as for the rest, by all accounts Thane should have been dead already by the events of ME3.  

Would it be better if, say, you had an option to talk Thane into the lung transplant and he agrees so he has extra time to spend with you... and then he gets killed during the fight?  (Serious question).

You are not changing my mind by HOW to play me game, WHO to befriend or LI and  HOW to feel about the way the story and female fans have been treated in ME3. What you doing is showing your selfishness and unwillingness to empathyse with anyone else.

You are not stopping me from posting here, no matter how many times you post that drivel. If you can't make an effort to inform yourself and try to put yourself in someone elses's shoes, you are not changing my mind. You are wasting your time. And making the post count grow which is good for the thread, so keep at it. 

Not sure why you think any of that but for my part, I have no desire to change your mind on how to play the game or who to befriend, etc.  Nor do I have any desire to stop you from posting in this thread.

RShara wrote...

Okay, how can I explain this?

Thane has incurablitis.
1. This is a bad plot device.
2.
A CURE IS BEING WORKED ON--Thane only "doubts" it will be ready in
time to save him. This doubt is no greater or less than the genophage
maybe needing YEARS to cure.
3. Thane is eligible for a LUNG
TRANSPLANT-Stated repeatedly. This would VERY EASILY extend his life
long enough for a cure to be completed.
4. Thane being cured or
life-extended is NO MORE implausible than Tali, genophage, Keiji, and is
MUCH MORE plausible than those mentioned above.

[BeanieBat]

Ah yes, thanks RShara, I knew someone had screenshots that highlighted the issues somewhere!

Also @M. Hanky despite Thane dying in ME3, do you not agree that he should have still counted as an LI if you stuck with him in ME3 after having romanced him in ME2 (ie, unlocked the achievement)? Just another thing I believe should have been in the game to begin.

[M. Hanky]

RShara wrote...

Epic Fight: Scene 1
KL Stands facing Sal C. Power glows in his palm. Suddenly, a gun is pointed at his head ready to shoot. It is held by Thane. For some reason he doesn't shoot, but instead stands there until Kai Leng turns and bats him away.

because when people usually do that in entertainment, they're not going for the kill, the person will usually stop because tehy have a gun pointed at their head. I don't find this part unplausable at all. imho, and could be wrong here, you just hate it all because of bitterness over thane's death.

[Renmiri1]

Except that we know ME2 took only 2-3 months and this is 6 months later. So your dates are way off.

And Thane said incapacitated, not dead. He assured Sheppard he would be in fighting condition at his best before that time passed. What we see 6 moths later is "incapacitated"

[RShara]

ummm don't think the last half of ME2 took 9 months...

[BeanieBat]

M. Hanky wrote...

RShara wrote...

Epic Fight: Scene 1
KL Stands facing Sal C. Power glows in his palm. Suddenly, a gun is pointed at his head ready to shoot. It is held by Thane. For some reason he doesn't shoot, but instead stands there until Kai Leng turns and bats him away.

because when people usually do that in entertainment, they're not going for the kill, the person will usually stop because tehy have a gun pointed at their head. I don't find this part unplausable at all. imho, and could be wrong here, you just hate it all because of bitterness over thane's death.

There is another screenshot though, which is when Thane is actually impaled on KL's sword.... Thane has the gun pointed at KL's head and there is a blue flash surronding the gun implying it had just been fired, but nothing happens to KL.  Maybe I should go and try to find it...

[jumpingkaede]

RShara wrote...

Okay, how can I explain this?

Thane has incurablitis.
1. This is a bad plot device.

Disagree.  Terminal illnesses exist today.  A terminal illness in the future is not implausible (the opposite is probably true).

I agree that Thane's terminal illness is poorly executed because Bioware chose an illness that wouldn't actually be "terminal",  

2. A CURE IS BEING WORKED ON--Thane only "doubts" it will be ready in time to save him. This doubt is no greater or less than the genophage maybe needing YEARS to cure.

Netiher agree nor disagree since this isn't an argument.  Only a statement of fact which is correct as far as the game goes.  

I don't see how the Genophage Modification is relevant since ME3 says that the Genophage "Cure" is based off of Eve's tissue which shortened the process.

I agree that if Bioware had chosen to introduce a Drell who was immune to Kepral's Syndrome which then led to a "cure" that would be the same thing.  

3. Thane is eligible for a LUNG  TRANSPLANT-Stated repeatedly. This would VERY EASILY extend his life
long enough for a cure to be completed.

Agree that it would extend his life.

Disagree on your conclusion that it would "very easily extend his life long enough for a cure to be completed" since we have no idea how long it would take for a cure to be completed.

4. Thane being cured or life-extended is NO MORE implausible than Tali, genophage, Keiji, and is
MUCH MORE plausible than those mentioned above.

Sort of agree since you're talking about very different things.  Again, if Bioware had chosen to introduce a cure for Kepral's Syndrome I agree that the cure wouldn't need to be too space magicky to work.

But in my opinion it would cheapen a lot of Thane's character motivations.  You can't be a deathbed repentant if you aren't actually on your deathbed.

[Renmiri1]

They do try to retcon and shoehorn stuff in their mind, don't they ? No matter how many times we point to the many ME2 plot points that prove ME3 Thane being at death's door is BS. Again I think it goes back to that other article we were discussing.

Moira-chan wrote...

Good article about the look of female game charas

From the article

The reactions boil down to, essentially, "I like this, and who are you to say otherwise?" People are offended at the idea that anything they're doing or enjoying could be wrong, and lash out as a result.

Interesting... It certainly seems to apply to us Thanemancers and Thane fans. It explains a lot of the hate and drive by posting the "Thane's death was awesome" crowd has been pouring on us.

I think they get ashamed because we point out all the plot holes they glossed over. All the retcon they didn't notice. And the "cheapened" and "trivialized" is an effort to show they are noble and honor the character. And we do not.

[RShara]

I'll repeat that I think we'd all be fine with life extension, at least until the end of ME3, rather than a cure, if you make the right choices. And yes a cure would not cheapen or trivialize his character because the ground work is there and it can be a logical extension of what's been put into place.

Thank you for seeing this point of view.

Here is the crux of the latter statement:
I don't agree that it would cheapen his character motivation. His ORIGINAL motivation was because he was dying. But, just because he isn't dying any more doesn't reverse any of the learning and growing and understanding that he went through when he thought he was dying. Knowledge isn't unlearned and experience isn't undone just because the INITIAL impetus of that experience has been removed.

I think it would have shown his character with more depth and wonder if he had been given a chance to live and continues being the now-better-person that he had become.

[jumpingkaede]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Except that we know ME2 took only 2-3 months and this is 6 months later. So your dates are way off.

Can you please point me to where it says ME2 only took 2-3 months?  

And Thane said incapacitated, not dead. He assured Sheppard he would be in fighting condition at his best before that time passed. What we see 6 moths later is "incapacitated"

Is your argument is that when Thane says he had "12 months" to be at his best he turned out to be wrong?

But that can be attributed that to Bioware's lack of continuity, or perhaps that predictions for terminal illnesses are occassionally wrong.  (See ME3 and Thane's 3/9 month doctor prediction).

[M. Hanky]

Squeegee83 wrote...

*smacks forehead*

His death, for me, was as meaningful as if someone was to kill Thane by hitting him in the face with a frozen peach. Him dying in ME2 was the butt of all jokes with me because I wasn't taking it seriously. I have learned the life/death lesson in life, I wasn't about to apply it to an assassin who speaks poetry, has perfect memory, who happens to be an alien... living in a fantasy world where huge killer machines are going to destroy you and the Commander of the Normandy pulls a Jesus Christ by coming back from the dead.

So what did Thane's death do for me in ME3? Take away one of the main reasons why I bought the game. When he croaked, the game no longer became fun. I was seriously hoping they wouldn't do it, but provide an option. There were many people who felt the same way too, who let BW know this and were shut down obviously in ME3. So yes, people are going to be upset. They would like to have back one of their main reasons of why they bought ME3.

BioWare does not have to listen to us, they can choose to make us important or not. Right now it seems we do not hit their list of importance. Perhaps one day that will change.

"you can't save everyone" in ME3 doesn't apply only to the billions of people dying on earth, palaven, thessia, and the many many other planets the reapers invade. some of the people, even potential LI's (especially one whose possible death you had to get used to from the start) would have to die too, or ME3 would have been an incredibly crappy game. no matter who they killed off, there would be protests and people getting pissed off.

[jumpingkaede]

RShara wrote...

I think it would have shown his character with more depth and wonder if he had been given a chance to live and continues being the now-better-person that he had become.

But then you don't get his speech where he prays for Shepard, which I thought was a thoughtful moment.

[jumpingkaede]

Renmiri1 wrote...

I think they get ashamed because we point out all the plot holes they glossed over. All the retcon they didn't notice. And the "cheapened" and "trivialized" is an effort to show they are noble and honor the character. And we do not.

The list of plot holes and retcons in ME3 is a mile long.

But a plot hole is a hole that exists because it's contrary to the logic established by the game's plot.  Not contrary to real life medicine. 

Thane dying of an uncurable disease is not a plot hole.  Unless every disease in ME is curable.  Even if many diseases in ME are curable that wouldn't make it a plot hole.

The timeline problem re: 3/9 months probably is an inconsistency/inaccuracy though.

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 05 juillet 2012 - 09:30 .

[RShara]

Thane can pray over Shepard's body at the end of ME3 instead hah!

The prayer was nice, but was way lacking for a romanced Shepard. I'd gladly exchange the prayer for more time and proper content with Thane.

Also, if we had an OPTION for life extension, then you could still have the prayer, and I could still have Thane. Everyone gets what they want.

[jumpingkaede]

RShara wrote...

Thane can pray over Shepard's body at the end of ME3 instead hah!

The prayer was nice, but was way lacking for a romanced Shepard. I'd gladly exchange the prayer for more time and proper content with Thane.

Also, if we had an OPTION for life extension, then you could still have the prayer, and I could still have Thane. Everyone gets what they want.

True.

Although I would extend his life then.  Why would I want Thane to die just so I can have a prayer? 

[BeanieBat]

I don't know the details but there certainly appears to be time inconsistencies. If Thane was told he had 3 months to live 9 months ago, and there's only 6 months between ME2 and ME3, then he would have been told this around ME2 time... so why would he say to Shepard he had 8-12 months? I suspect that BW altered the timeline in order to accelerate Thane's disease... (again, my opinion, I don't know for sure).

[RShara]

jumpingkaede wrote...

Renmiri1 wrote...

I think they get ashamed because we point out all the plot holes they glossed over. All the retcon they didn't notice. And the "cheapened" and "trivialized" is an effort to show they are noble and honor the character. And we do not.

The list of plot holes and retcons in ME3 is a mile long.

But a plot hole is a hole that exists because it's contrary to the logic established by the game's plot.  Not contrary to real life medicine. 

Thane dying of an uncurable disease is not a plot hole.  Unless every disease in ME is curable.  Even if many diseases in ME are curable that wouldn't make it a plot hole.

The timeline problem re: 3/9 months probably is an inconsistency/inaccuracy though.

The plot hole is his inexplicable and complete attitude reversal, and the logical puzzlement from being able to work miracles everywhere but in what is possibly the most important relationship that Shepard has going at that time.

[M. Hanky]

jumpingkaede wrote...

RShara wrote...

Thane can pray over Shepard's body at the end of ME3 instead hah!

The prayer was nice, but was way lacking for a romanced Shepard. I'd gladly exchange the prayer for more time and proper content with Thane.

Also, if we had an OPTION for life extension, then you could still have the prayer, and I could still have Thane. Everyone gets what they want.

True.

Although I would extend his life then.  Why would I want Thane to die just so I can have a prayer? 

because you're evil

[RShara]

jumpingkaede wrote...

RShara wrote...

Thane can pray over Shepard's body at the end of ME3 instead hah!

The prayer was nice, but was way lacking for a romanced Shepard. I'd gladly exchange the prayer for more time and proper content with Thane.

Also, if we had an OPTION for life extension, then you could still have the prayer, and I could still have Thane. Everyone gets what they want.

True.

Although I would extend his life then.  Why would I want Thane to die just so I can have a prayer? 

So that his character isn't cheapened or trivialized?

[jumpingkaede]

RShara wrote...

The plot hole is his inexplicable and complete attitude reversal, and the logical puzzlement from being able to work miracles everywhere but in what is possibly the most important relationship that Shepard has going at that time.

I'm pretty sure that's not a plot hole...

M. Hanky wrote...
because you're evil 

I'm all for characters living if I can help it!

RShara wrote...

So that his character isn't cheapened or trivialized?[smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/sick.png[/smilie]

If Bioware wants to cheapen/trivialize his character so be it?   I like Thane better as a deathbed repentant but as far as the ME universe goes, a universe with Thane alive is better than a universe without.  

I also agree that the Thane romance was poorly done in ME3 but ALL the romances were poorly done in ME3.  That's not justification or an excuse, btw.  I'm all for better romances as well.

Modifié par jumpingkaede, 05 juillet 2012 - 09:39 .

[M. Hanky]

@Rshara

I have to ask, where is you avatar from? looks dragonage-ish, but not quite. Is it a mod or something?

[RShara]

@M. Hanky: I made it when I worked for a 3D content company.

@jumping: inexplicable reversals in character theme counts as a plot hole by most definitions that I know of...
Well at this point, that is your opinion and you have a right to it. I'm glad you acknowledged the point that I've been trying to make over and over, but I don't expect to change your mind about which path you prefer.

[RShara]

So to reiterate....Thane's death wasn't set in stone since he only doubted that he'd survive long enough for a cure, and with the groundwork laid in ME2, a life extension is not out of the question

And an extension wouldn't trivalize him because you don't un-experience things

And having an option for a cure/life extension wouldn't make anyone else's game any worse.

Yes?