766 réponses à ce sujet

[M. Hanky]

RShara wrote...

Except Thane has a LOGICAL extension possibility. It would not have been unrealistic or difficult to implement. No more so than, as has been mentioned before, genophage, Tali, heck, Garrus takes a missile to the face...

Yet, everyone else is just fine.

If they wanted something with angst, there should have been a choice between characters. The VS was well done because you really had to make a sacrifice and it was awful but well done.

Thane's death was just cheap and lazy. Character death due to bad writing =|= realistic.

but that's not the point of thane's death, as well as other unavoidable things in the game. the point is that, contrary to how many of us seem to want to play the game, Shepard isn't a god who can decide indefinately who lives and who dies. sometimes, the ones who dies are people that Shepard loves.

[M. Hanky]

RShara wrote...

DukeOfNukes wrote...

Julia_xo wrote...

There are clear problems with how Thane was handled in ME3 and we want these things addressed.

There are clear problems with how EVERYTHING was handled from the beggining of Mass Effect 2.

THIS we can agree on 100%.

So what's wrong with us trying to fix what matters most to us?

nothing wrong with you doing whatever it is that you want, but that doesn't mean we have to agree with your statements, arguements, or petitions. you will always have people who disagree with just about everything you say, so you may as well get used to arguing.

[RShara]

Yet you have a choice on whether just about everyone else Shepard cares about lives or dies.  There is no point to Thane's death other than cheap shock value.

Modifié par RShara, 05 juillet 2012 - 11:58 .

[Julia_xo]

M. Hanky wrote...

RShara wrote...

Listen.

We are asking for options and choices. Why is this so bad? How does it hurt you? It doesn't. If you don't like the choice that we like, DON'T CHOOSE IT. That's the beauty of having a choice. You get to do what YOU want.

Thane and Jacob are the only LI's EVER in Bioware's history to be forced down a no-continuation path.

We are asking for fair treatment for ALL LI, especially the ones treated the worst.

We are saying that Thane was NOT accepting or ready for death.

We are saying that there COULD HAVE been a very simple and logical method to save him, via a lung transplant.

Where exactly in all of this is there anything wrong or bad?

Other than the, "He's dead, deal with it" argument, which isn't really an argument at all.

you're right, it doesn't hurt me. but what it comes down to is that we don't get to have everything exactly the way we want it in all aspects of the game. yes, it is just a game, but it is a game that strives to have a realistic (in a sci fi setting) plot with realistic characters. while we may have different opinions on what makes those characters realistic or what destroys their realism, something that would completely destroy any semblance of realism for the plot/playability of the game itself is having an omnipotent shepard who can, through his/her choices alone, save or kill anyone on a whim. THAT would hurt me and others as having the choice to be able to save everyone would make the game corney and cheesy. why not be able to save everyone on thessia? why not palaven? why not earth?

Um, why is this realism arguement only applied to certain characters? Was it realistic that Shepard died and was brought back to life? Was it realistic that Eve was introduced just in time so Shepard can cure the Genophage and broker a deal between the Turians & Krogan for plot purposes? Is it realistic for the Geth to download themselves into envro-suits to speed up the Quarian's adaption? Or for some space child manifestation of the Reapers to give us a color-coded choice at the end of the game? Is it realistic that Shepard spends a huge part of the game eaves-dropping on random people and doing fetch quests across the galaxy - like scouring some random planet for a fossil for a Salarian to clone?

So much half-baked, unrealistic crap happens in these games but God forbid Thane get the lung transplant we know he's eligible for. That's apparently too far-fetched.

[Renmiri1]

The only good thing about the never ending repeat of baseless arguments is that we have all refuted it in this very same thread a couple of pages ago. I should start bookmarking this things

Renmiri1 wrote...

 Talking about the "Heroic Deaths" on ME3. There are 3 that come to mind:
Mordrin

• Dies saving an entire race
• Dies redeeming himself for creating/aggravating the problem in the first place
• Only Mordrin could do what he did, no one else could
• It was his choice and he fully knew he would die
• Was near death as a 40 years old Salarian
• Leaves no one behind depending on him
• Is not an LI

Legion

• Dies saving an entire race, his own
• Dies redeeming his race for having some of it's members follow Saren
• Only Legion could do what he did, no one else could
• It was his choice and he fully knew he would die
• Was not near death
• Leaves no one behind depending on him
• Is not an LI

Thane

• Dies saving only one person
• Dies redeeming his past ? Wasn't Suicide Mission enough "redemption " ?
• ANYONE could do what he did, Kirahe actually does it in some versions
• It was NOT his choice, he didn't know everyone would be staring at Kai Lame motionless
• Was near death
• Leaves A SON  behind depending on him, leaves Sheppard heartbroken when she is under a big challenge
• Is an LI

Does that put how lame Thane's mandatory death is in perspective ?

[Arl Raylen]

RShara wrote...

Yet you have a choice on whether just about everyone else Shepard cares about lives or dies.  There is no point to Thane's death other than cheap shock value.

This. I hate when a game like Mass Effect (a game based on choices) forces things on you.

Modifié par Arl Raylen, 06 juillet 2012 - 12:00 .

[SMichelle]

M. Hanky wrote...

you're right, it doesn't hurt me. but what it comes down to is that we don't get to have everything exactly the way we want it in all aspects of the game. yes, it is just a game, but it is a game that strives to have a realistic (in a sci fi setting) plot with realistic characters. while we may have different opinions on what makes those characters realistic or what destroys their realism, something that would completely destroy any semblance of realism for the plot/playability of the game itself is having an omnipotent shepard who can, through his/her choices alone, save or kill anyone on a whim. THAT would hurt me and others as having the choice to be able to save everyone would make the game corney and cheesy. why not be able to save everyone on thessia? why not palaven? why not earth?

Uhhh...did you just say ME strive's to be realistic?  Did you actually play to the end of the game? ....(shhhh SPOILER...Shepard could jump into a beam of light and combine synthetic and organic DNA...and everyone lived happy immortal lives) 

But a lung transplant is TOTALLY unrealistic in any way.

I don't know if you're trolling this thread or what.  Because honestly, why else would you care if someone else wants a DLC for any reason.  How does this affect you?  Or are you one of those people who simply likes to take a dump on things that make others happy?

[RShara]

If Miranda was forced to die to save her sister, that's realistic, because people die to save loved ones.
If Tali died to save the quarians, that's realistic because people die to save their species.
If Garrus died to save Primarch Victus, that's realistic because people die to save their leaders.
if Liara died to save the Prothean data, that's realistic because people die for their beliefs.

Oh wait...

[DukeOfNukes]

RShara wrote...

Character death due to bad writing =|= realistic.

Shepard having magically powers to save whomever he pleases is totally good writing, and totally realistic.

How about the fact that Shepard died, though suffocation, flashed frozen, burned up on re-entry, and then probably flash frozen again...spent several months having his body transported from planet to planet, faction to faction before finally being recovered by a radical pro-human extremist group who then proceeds to resurrect you over the course of 2 years.

[RShara]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

RShara wrote...

Character death due to bad writing =|= realistic.

Shepard having magically powers to save whomever he pleases is totally good writing, and totally realistic.

How about the fact that Shepard died, though suffocation, flashed frozen, burned up on re-entry, and then probably flash frozen again...spent several months having his body transported from planet to planet, faction to faction before finally being recovered by a radical pro-human extremist group who then proceeds to resurrect you over the course of 2 years.

So with all of that... a lung transplant is so impossible?

[M. Hanky]

SMichelle wrote...


I don't know if you're trolling this thread or what.  Because honestly, why else would you care if someone else wants a DLC for any reason.  How does this affect you?  Or are you one of those people who simply likes to take a dump on things that make others happy?

pathetic. seriously pathetic that this is the best you can come up with. it's a DEBATE, a DISCUSSION. it's not life or death, it's not me forcing anything on you, just simply having a discussion here. if a discussion is reason enough for you to lose your happiness, then the forums is not the place for you. what is the point of the forums if not to discuss? in order for there to be a discussion there needs to be more than one point of view. is it evil of me to express a different POV? is it hurting anyone? is that even the deffinition of trolling?

You guys have made some good points, but they still have yet to effectively negate my central arguement that the game would suck if Shepard were omnipotent to the point that Shepard gets to ALWAYS choose who lives and dies and when. that would make Shepard a monster if you look at it from earth's perspective, for instance.

Modifié par M. Hanky, 06 juillet 2012 - 12:06 .

[Renmiri1]

again I think is the female gamer article situation.. The fact that we disagree with them on Thane's "awsum death" makes them feel threatened.

Renmiri1 wrote...

Moira-chan wrote...

Good article about the look of female game charas

From the article

The reactions boil down to, essentially, "I like this, and who are you to say otherwise?" People are offended at the idea that anything they're doing or enjoying could be wrong, and lash out as a result.

Interesting... It certainly seems to apply to us Thanemancers and Thane fans. It explains a lot of the hate and drive by posting the "Thane's death was awesome" crowd has been pouring on us.

I think they get ashamed because we point out all the plot holes they glossed over. All the retcon they didn't notice. And the "cheapened" and "trivialized" is an effort to show they are noble and honor the character. And we do not.

[firel]

In ME3 Shepard goes around and can help entire species. The Krogan and the Quarian-Geth conflict, which can result in their immune system being fixed.

Keprals isn't just about Thane. It's a problem that affects the entire Drell species. I think it would fit in well with the rest of ME3 if Shepard was allowed to help cure Keprals, which would save hundreds of thousands of Drell, and get war assets. I think that would have been far more 'epic' than just a ninja fight.
Someone made this suggestion in another thread that I thought was good, lets say that the Thane vs. Kai Leng fight happens, but Thane survives the stab wound. He is still in poor condition, but alive. The salarian counselor thanks him and asks him what he can do as thanks, and Thane tell him to send salarian scientists to Kahje and help develop a cure. This would still keep Thane as a hero (you don't have to die to be a hero, after all) and even more so by wanting the Drell to be cured. He survives untill the end of the game, there's still the 'badass' KL scene and he's even more of a hero. Headcanon does the rest for a post-game cure.


Would you be opposed to this?

Modifié par firel, 06 juillet 2012 - 12:07 .

[RShara]

M. Hanky: One of the things that drew us to Mass Effect is that you choose the story. Your choices matter. You DO choose who lives or dies. You choose if the krogan are cured of the genophage or not. You choose between the quarian and the geth. You choose the fate of the GALAXY.  That's sort of the point of the game.

So choosing the fate of your loved one is just too much?

Modifié par RShara, 06 juillet 2012 - 12:09 .

[RShara]

And...fyi, I don't think Shepard has the right to play god. BUT talking her lover into a life extending lung transplant is hardly playing god. It's something any normal, sane, logical, and emotional person would do.
The fact that this option is not available at all is ridiculous.

[DukeOfNukes]

RShara wrote...

So with all of that... a lung transplant is so impossible?

Nope, don't think it is impossible, and I'm sure that, had he survived, he would have been placed on the waiting list.

[SMichelle]

M. Hanky wrote...

SMichelle wrote...


I don't know if you're trolling this thread or what.  Because honestly, why else would you care if someone else wants a DLC for any reason.  How does this affect you?  Or are you one of those people who simply likes to take a dump on things that make others happy?

pathetic. seriously pathetic that this is the best you can come up with. it's a DEBATE, a DISCUSSION. it's not life or death, it's not me forcing anything on you, just simply having a discussion here. if a discussion is reason enough for you to lose your happiness, then the forums is not the place for you. what is the point of the forums if not to discuss? in order for there to be a discussion there needs to be more than one point of view. is it evil of me to express a different POV? is it hurting anyone? is that even the deffinition of trolling?

You guys have made some good points, but they still have yet to effectively negate my central arguement that the game would suck if Shepard were omnipotent to the point that Shepard gets to ALWAYS choose who lives and dies and when. that would make Shepard a monster if you look at it from earth's perspective, for instance.

You know what's pathetic....you totally ignored the points that negated YOUR arguement. 

How is saving Thane anymore unrealistic than jumping into a green energy beam and combining DNA of organics and Synthetics?   I see you left that out of my quote...do you want me to quote it again for you?

Yeah, lung transplant is TOTALLY unrealistic and would totally ruin the realism of the ME universe! 

Yeah, Shepard can survive the vacuum of space....organ transplant  NO WAY!

And how is saving Thane saving everybody?   Oh, I get it, you're using hyperbole.  Good Job!

[RShara]

LoTSB takes place (logically) before Arrival. In LotSB, you learn Thane is eligible for a transplant. Would YOU wait 6-8 months to bring this option up to your loved one?

The lung transplant could have taken place before Shepard went into custody, and Thane could have been back to his old self by the time KL came around.

Or.....you talk to him about it at Huerta. It's the future.....you can heal near-death with medigel. There IS medigel for the LUNGS.  How long should rehab for a lung transplant take? A few weeks maybe? How long is the time between meeting him at HM, and then going through Tuchanka? It could reasonably be a few weeks, with all the side missions and traveling.

Is it really so implausible when you lay it out like that?

Modifié par RShara, 06 juillet 2012 - 12:16 .

[DukeOfNukes]

SMichelle wrote...

How is saving Thane anymore unrealistic than jumping into a green energy beam and combining DNA of organics and Synthetics?   I see you left that out of my quote...do you want me to quote it again for you?

You're right. It's not. They shouldn't have included the "synthesis ending" either.

Do you REALLY want me to go through a list of everything in ME2 and ME3 that made no sense?

Oddly enough, you wont find "Thane dying" on that list.

[Renmiri1]

And you know as you yourself pointed out. Thane's death wasn't all that was done to him in ME3. They completely changed the character. That made him die in more ways than one. Legion and Mordrim die 100% consistent with their characters and story.

Would you be happy with an Ashley that leaves the military and joins Cerberus, then dies in your arms on an "epic death" without your Sheppard being able to even say "I love you" ? Ashley is a military brat, she would never join Cerberus, to rewrite her as that is an insult. To add insult to injury she dies for good and you are barred from even expressing emotion.

And to make it even more annoying, the minute you come back to the Normandy Allers, Traynor, Liara and Tali try to get into your pants because they read the game flag that says you are now "single". Yet the same flag doesn't make anyone anywhere ask how you feel about Thane.

Modifié par Renmiri1, 06 juillet 2012 - 12:18 .

[M. Hanky]

SMichelle wrote...




You know what's pathetic....you totally ignored the points that negated YOUR arguement. 

How is saving Thane anymore unrealistic than jumping into a green energy beam and combining DNA of organics and Synthetics?   I see you left that out of my quote...do you want me to quote it again for you?

Yeah, lung transplant is TOTALLY unrealistic and would totally ruin the realism of the ME universe! 

Yeah, Shepard can survive the vacuum of space....organ transplant  NO WAY!

And how is saving Thane saving everybody?   Oh, I get it, you're using hyperbole.  Good Job!

because I'm not getting into the whole "the ending sucked because I have no imagination" discussion here, because this thread is about Thane. it was a non-arguement trying to change the topic and make anyone who you disagree with look like a moron for disagreeing with you.

the organ transplant has been discussed multiple times already today, so I didn't see the point in repeating myself. I agree that such dialogue should have been introduced, but not that it should have lead to you being able to save thane. if you're serious about having a discussion rather than just flaming anyone you disagree with, let me know please.

[DukeOfNukes]

Renmiri1 wrote...

Would you be happy with an Ashley that leaves the military and joins Cerberus, then dies in your arms on an "epic death" without your Sheppard being able to even say "I love you" ?

Wasn't happy about when it happened to Shepard.

You all are making some pretty odd assumptions about what we like about the series.

[RShara]

M. Hanky wrote...

the organ transplant has been discussed
multiple times already today, so I didn't see the point in repeating
myself. I agree that such dialogue should have been introduced, but not
that it should have lead to you being able to save thane. if you're
serious about having a discussion rather than just flaming anyone you
disagree with, let me know please.

RShara wrote...

LoTSB takes place (logically) before Arrival. In LotSB, you learn Thane is eligible for a transplant. Would YOU wait 6-8 months to bring this option up to your loved one?

The lung transplant could have taken place before Shepard went into custody, and Thane could have been back to his old self by the time KL came around.

Or.....you talk to him about it at Huerta. It's the future.....you can heal near-death with medigel. There IS medigel for the LUNGS.  How long should rehab for a lung transplant take? A few weeks maybe? How long is the time between meeting him at HM, and then going through Tuchanka? It could reasonably be a few weeks, with all the side missions and traveling.

Is it really so implausible when you lay it out like that?

[Renmiri1]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

SMichelle wrote...

How is saving Thane anymore unrealistic than jumping into a green energy beam and combining DNA of organics and Synthetics?   I see you left that out of my quote...do you want me to quote it again for you?

You're right. It's not. They shouldn't have included the "synthesis ending" either.

Do you REALLY want me to go through a list of everything in ME2 and ME3 that made no sense?

Oddly enough, you wont find "Thane dying" on that list.

EDIT.. Damn thing swallowed my answer

I actually read it. After your first post I clicked on your signature to see your post about ME3 and the game industry. Unlike you, I always try to inform myself before posting a reply.

Modifié par Renmiri1, 06 juillet 2012 - 12:21 .

[SMichelle]

DukeOfNukes wrote...

SMichelle wrote...

How is saving Thane anymore unrealistic than jumping into a green energy beam and combining DNA of organics and Synthetics?   I see you left that out of my quote...do you want me to quote it again for you?

You're right. It's not. They shouldn't have included the "synthesis ending" either.

Do you REALLY want me to go through a list of everything in ME2 and ME3 that made no sense?

Oddly enough, you wont find "Thane dying" on that list.

Hell, I'm not claiming that ME is realistic - quite the reverse actually (look at my sig ).  However, if Thane makes a group of people happy - and saving his life adds to someone's enjoyment of the game- I say more power to them.  It doesn't hurt me.

(and I think he did get a total screwjob in ME3)