766 réponses à ce sujet

[wildannie]

Renmiri1 wrote...

PS: And about not wanting the experience trivialized...

Thane's death was treated as a trivial occurrence by every single NPC, including Bayley, who sent Sheppard to the hospital. Did he say anything after Thane's deat about it ? Nope, it was TOO TRIVIAL to mention. Same for Joker, Liara, Garrus, etc.. Move along, nothing to see here folks, TOO TRIVIAL to even merit a single line of dialog.

#@!#@!#@!$@!@!

very very well said, they couldn't have trivialized his death any more than they did... that's the most pathetic excuse I've heard yet.

[giftfish]

I don't think it's necessary for me to repeat what has already been said, but wildannie, Wahukeza, Sparky25, Renmiri1,  Julia_xo, and Cosmochyck are spot on, and I agree with them 200%.

The key here is that a romanced Thane's character changes completely from ME2 to ME3, which is something a player might not  know unless they took the time to romance him in ME2.

To summarize in a few words:
> ME2 unromanced Thane -- fatalistic, calm, ready to die
> ME2 romanced Thane -- woken from his "battle-sleep", afraid, wants to live (for Shep and Kolyat)

BW has admitted that they basically forgot about him while making ME3, and for players that took the time to romance him, this is evident.  Nothing about his attitude, speech, or actions make any sense in ME3.  On my one and only play-through of ME3, I was thoroughly confused the entire time.  I was like...wtf did they do to Thane -- he's almost like a stranger to his LI.

All fans want is:

1.  A choice to save Thane.  This certainly won't ruin the game for the players that think it's appropriate for him to die. That choice should still be available to them.

I also disagree with the fact that saving him would cheapen his death.  There are patients that are told they have 3 months to live after being diagnosed with cancer.  Two years later they are still around and oncologists can't find any evidence of the cancer.  Is this common?  No.  Does it happen?  Yes.  Is their experience as a person who had "terminal cancer", "cheapened" as a result?  Just because they happened to survive?  I seriously doubt that they or their families would say so. 

If nothing else, I see no reason why BW couldn't make Thane's possibility of cure dependent upon whether or not you romanced him.  Maybe a non-romanced Thane should not have that option. 

Bioware's foreshadowing via the Hanar genetic engineering work on a cure, and the possibility for a lung transplant, laid the groundwork for hope by Thanemanacers that he could be saved.  BW would not have to go out of their way to implement this into the storyline, and it could be put in place at the beginning of ME3. 


2. An improvement to his character arc, which basically crashed and burned in a bad way in ME3. 

Romanced Thane's inconcistancies in character between ME2 and ME3 have already been documented repeatedly in this thread, so I won't go into them again.  Many of the ME2 LIs had poor character arcs in ME3. Thane is definitely one of them, for a multitude of reasons.

I'd be in full support of a "Romance DLC Pack" that gave us the opportunity to save Thane, and adds improvements to all of the romances in ME3.

[DashRunner92]

He was going to die anyway. Why not go with a bang? He died a hero. Is it even possible for Thane to survive the Citadel attack? I thought he had an excellent story arc. He was one, if not the only ME 2 character who actually got some real story time and closure. Thanemancers should count themselves lucky. He was dying already and Bioware could have easily killed him off-screen after ME2. 

(By the way, what happens during that Citadel attack if Thane died in ME2?)

Modifié par DashRunner92, 27 juin 2012 - 06:35 .

[Most Definitely Sane]

I keep noticing that no matter what supporters of this sort of DLC say, people keep saying the same thing.
Yes, he died a hero.
But that was only because Shepard's and his/her squad's IQ dropped into the negatives for a few minutes.
Yes, his prayer was touching.
But only if you didn't romance him.
Yes, we knew one day he would die.
But we had so many hints that he could live. The transplant. Hanar scientists. The Cure for Thane poster.
Bioware led us on, knowingly or unknowingly. That is fact.
If romanced, Thane is afraid of dying. That is fact.
No matter what, no one cares that he died, not even Shepard until he/she kills Kai Leng. That is fact.

Thane's death didn't make me tear up. It didn't make me want to kill Kai Leng.
It made me literally drop my controller and yell at the screen, and I'm a very difficult person to get upset.

And in response to that comment Ms. Auckland made, that is one of the worst reasons I have ever heard.
What happened to Thane wasn't watching someone you love/care about die slowly of a painful disease. What happened to Thane was watching someone that you could have saved if Shepard would react die of a half-assed death.

Thane deserved better. Thane's fans deserved better.

[giftfish]

DashRunner92 wrote...
Thanemancers should count themselves lucky. He was dying already and Bioware could have easily killed him off-screen after ME2.

I just don't even know how to respond to this.

Thanemancers are generally going to be female players.  BW created him specifically for female players to romance, and they did a great job as Thane's ME2 romance is EASILY the best-written romance available to heterosexual FemSheps in the entire Mass Effect SERIES. 

We should count ourselves lucky? 

Really? 

After Bioware gives us ZERO new heterosexual male romance options in ME3?  They have Jacob knock some chick up, they have Thane die, Garrus isn't romanceable unless you romanced him in ME2, and Kaidan has a 50% chance of being killed on Virmire.

We should feel LUCKY?

You must be kidding, clueless, or just...wow.

Modifié par giftfish, 27 juin 2012 - 07:07 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

I would like a new version of A Game of Thrones where Eddard Stark doesn't die, plz.

And a new version of The Departed where Leonardo Dicaprio doesn't die, plz.

And can they redo the entire last season of Lost and make it so Locke doesn't die, plz?

Sometimes, in narrative, characters die. You need to accept this and move on. Is it sad? Of course. It's SUPPOSED to be sad. That's the entire point.

Edit: If you want a better, more satisfying, romance arc for Thane in ME3, I am all in favor of that - as I am in favor of better romances for ALL ME2 love interests. But to wipe away his death? No.

Modifié par Father_Jerusalem, 27 juin 2012 - 07:07 .

[mnomaha]

I'm honestly torn between pitying some of you for your lack of empathy for the sick and wishing it upon you so that you would perhaps understand. Very slim chance since several of you have the emotional capacity of an ice cube.

[giftfish]

mnomaha wrote... ... several of you have the emotional capacity of an ice cube.

Agreed.

Modifié par giftfish, 27 juin 2012 - 07:40 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

mnomaha wrote...

I'm honestly torn between pitying some of you for your lack of empathy for the sick and wishing it upon you so that you would perhaps understand. Very slim chance since several of you have the emotional capacity of an ice cube.

You want people to get nasty, incurable, fatal diseases? Aaaaaaand that's how we report people. Thanks for playing.

[wildannie]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

I would like a new version of A Game of Thrones where Eddard Stark doesn't die, plz.

And a new version of The Departed where Leonardo Dicaprio doesn't die, plz.

And can they redo the entire last season of Lost and make it so Locke doesn't die, plz?

Sometimes, in narrative, characters die. You need to accept this and move on. Is it sad? Of course. It's SUPPOSED to be sad. That's the entire point.

Edit: If you want a better, more satisfying, romance arc for Thane in ME3, I am all in favor of that - as I am in favor of better romances for ALL ME2 love interests. But to wipe away his death? No.

I love Game of Thrones and Eddard Starks death made perfect sense.

The end of the departed was fantastic, brilliant film.

Lost was a load of old bollocks by then, and I would have preferred it if Locke hadn't died... it would have made it slightly less crap.

This is an RPG and Thane, as shepards LI, was a central character to some of the players.  Forcing that kind of plotline on a central character is bad storytelling within an RPG about choice.    They killed him off before halfway through the game and handled it unbelievably badly for a Romanced Shepard.  They had their chance to prove how 'awesome' and touching his death could be as part of the romance and FAILED SO SO BADLY.  I can't be arsed playing through ME3 again for anything less than an option to prolong his life.  I would hope to see this as part of a larger ME2 squad DLC.

edit:  REPORTING?  seriously, that was hardly an offensive statement and I don't even think it was aimed at you:blink:

Modifié par wildannie, 27 juin 2012 - 07:19 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

wildannie wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

I would like a new version of A Game of Thrones where Eddard Stark doesn't die, plz.

And a new version of The Departed where Leonardo Dicaprio doesn't die, plz.

And can they redo the entire last season of Lost and make it so Locke doesn't die, plz?

Sometimes, in narrative, characters die. You need to accept this and move on. Is it sad? Of course. It's SUPPOSED to be sad. That's the entire point.

Edit: If you want a better, more satisfying, romance arc for Thane in ME3, I am all in favor of that - as I am in favor of better romances for ALL ME2 love interests. But to wipe away his death? No.

I love Game of Thrones and Eddard Starks death made perfect sense.

The end of the departed was fantastic, brilliant film.

Lost was a load of old bollocks by then, and I would have preferred it if Locke hadn't died... it would have made it slightly less crap.

This is an RPG and Thane, as shepards LI, was a central character to some of the players.  Forcing that kind of plotline on a central character is bad storytelling within an RPG about choice.    They killed him off before halfway through the game and handled it unbelievably badly for a Romanced Shepard.  They had their chance to prove how 'awesome' and touching his death could be as part of the romance and FAILED SO SO BADLY.  I can't be arsed playing through ME3 again for anything less than an option to prolong his life.  I would hope to see this as part of a larger ME2 squad DLC.

And I'm more than happy with adding on a better romance arc and closure for anyone who romanced him. Absolutely. But completely negating the central point of his character - of an assassin who's fatally ill and is coming to terms with dying - simply so you can have snuggle time with him would be an utter disservice to the character.

[wildannie]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...



And I'm more than happy with adding on a better romance arc and closure for anyone who romanced him. Absolutely. But completely negating the central point of his character - of an assassin who's fatally ill and is coming to terms with dying - simply so you can have snuggle time with him would be an utter disservice to the character.

I appreciate your (limited) support but the fact is that Thane's character branches in two directions in ME2, one where he has come to terms with his death, and the other where he's found a new reason to live.  A romanced Thane should have sought out the available treatments that are mentioned in dossier and CDN between ME2 and 3 but Bioware couldn't think of a good reason to keep him off the Normandy if cured so they killed him off regardless what his state of mind had been before.

[Moira-chan]

you can all be done with it, that's fine, really, i'm glad you can, but for me it's not the end...
the ec is much better then the first ending, yeah, but it's not the game i wished to be...
and why are you against a dlc? you don't have to download it it's jsut for those who want, and for more thane, i would pay.
hell, i already did. sending the thane plushie, makiing donation for protesting, donate money for the me3 marathon to get support for thane...
went couple of hours to write essays out of scientific in aforeign language, why thane was easily to save (you will get it in 2 days, bioware with squee's poster), tribute in many projects and discussing just to get trolled?
do we don't have the wright to get our opion? why are we punched to be thanemancers? really, if you all think a cure has no chance (and there was hint) for a romance...
it was just pure pain. not better sweet pain, no it just felt wrong, it just does not felt like thane anymore, not the awaken one, i knew from me2. he gave up again, ihe was in his battle sleep and that hurts. all the development he earned by being in love with shepard was refused again.

[DashRunner92]

giftfish wrote...

DashRunner92 wrote...
Thanemancers should count themselves lucky. He was dying already and Bioware could have easily killed him off-screen after ME2.

I just don't even know how to respond to this.

Thanemancers are generally going to be female players.  BW created him specifically for female players to romance, and they did a great job as Thane's ME2 romance is EASILY the best-written romance available to heterosexual FemSheps in the entire Mass Effect SERIES. 

We should count ourselves lucky? 

Really? 

After Bioware gives us ZERO new heterosexual male romance options in ME3?  They have Jacob knock some chick up, they have Thane die, Garrus isn't romanceable unless you romanced him in ME2, and Kaidan has a 50% chance of being killed on Virmire.

We should feel LUCKY?

You must be kidding, clueless, or just...wow.

Wow, since when I was talking about romance options for females and males. I was talking about the wrap-up of Thane's storyline and the effects he can have on the LI. Espeically compared to the other ME2 romances. I never said that the ME2 romances were handled well in ME3. I was stating that Thane-mancers were lucky that at least he was handled well in ME3. Are you seriously kidding me? Talk about overthinking a simple statement that I posted. 

Also guess what, ME is not a dating simulator. ME3 is the end of a triology, I'm glad they didn't put any new heterosexual male romances, it takes away from the continuing LI's. Bioware stated, if you want to experience the triology to its fullest, then play all three games. The majority of male players either were dating Liara, Ashley, or didn't want a romance to begin with. ME2 Thane-mancers should be feeling lucky, compared the Mirandamancers who got see Miranda in the flesh about two times, Jacobmancers who knocked up a chick, Tali who gives you a stock photo, Jack who you see once at a bar once outside of the Academy mission. Also Ashley had a 50% chance of dying of Virmire too, except it's not by chance since you are explicitly make that choice. You're obviously not going to pick your LI, so I don't know what you're complaining about there. 

Modifié par DashRunner92, 27 juin 2012 - 07:30 .

[Moira-chan]

Squeegee83 wrote...

I am going to keep this short, because I am tired of these same arguments.

---

I believe it takes heart to accept a dying man. We have to see beyond the disease to grow any sort of an attachment to him. If Thane was a boring, pointless, jerk of a character... then we wouldn't be here right now. We wouldn’t be inspire to do protests, projects, writing stories, creating art, arguing, debating, etc etc. It’s not so clear cut as “Thane said he was dying, so therefore he should die. Now get over it and move on”.  There are many elements to Thane and why we believe its okay to save him.

Trying to funnel people down one way of thinking will never work. Expecting an entire fan base and every single person in it to believe there should have been only one outcome… is clearly a fail. To assume it’s only the romancers who have a problem with Thane’s death, is naïve. To think that I will change my mind on the subject, will never happen. We all have our feelings and opinions when it comes to Thane.

I know I surely cannot change your mind.

I don’t need a life lesson about death, I have experienced in it. However, it was my experience that made me understand Thane, it’s also my experience that makes me understand why people would want a save option for
Thane.  It’s also why I understand that you cannot win them all, but it doesn’t mean ya can’t try. I mean honestly, if we just lay down and took it, I be ashamed of this fan base.

I didn’t bond with Thane because of his disease. I bonded with Thane because in my opinion, was pretty darn awesome. I felt Thane’s romance storyline was dictating to me on how I should think, how I should feel, what I should experience, and what I should believe to be truth. I’m not a lap dog, I am not going to sit just because you told me too.

you just dont know how i wanna push the "like" button, squee. you're so damn right..in every single point

[giftfish]

DashRunner92 wrote... I never said that the ME2 romances were handled well in ME3.. 

We agree on that at least. 

I try not to get into flame wars on forums, so I'll end it with that.  We're both entitled to our differing perspectives.

[Myaku1313]

Julia_xo wrote...

Myaku1313 wrote...

IMO his death was done beautifully. He already said he was going to die. He already said he didn't want to do anything to extend his life anymore. He accepted it. Even when he admits his moment of weakness he still afterwards says he has accepted his death. The only thing that concerns Thane is your fate which is why even on his death bed he prays for you/has you pray for you. The writers didn't kill his romance or anything with his death.

His death was not done "beautifully". It was an afterthought just as the character was treated as an afterthought by the writers in ME3.

He never said he didn't want to do anything to extend his life. We were never given a reason for why the lung transplant was refused. There was never any opportunity to ask. But the fact was that the climax of his romance scene in ME2 was him admitting that he was scared to die and it's because he had things worth living for (his son, Shepard).

'I consider my body's death, and a chill settles in my gut. I am
afraid, and it shames me.'

To simply ignore that development like they did is detrimental to the character and frankly makes no sense. ME3 Thane did not feel like the Thane we got to know in ME2.

The romance was destroyed. Thane went from saying "any time I have is yours to take" to "we always knew it would end".

Even his LotSB letter which was recycled in ME3 contradicts ME3 Thane's words in the hospital: "my heart quickened it's sluggish beat if only to remain by your side and protect you with everything that I am" to "if I know you, you will want to fight the Reapers somehow. You need the best at your side. I'm not at mine"

And even if Shepard points out he doesn't need to fight. He still gives some lame, half-assed excuse that breaks established character.

It's like after the original writer left, whoever took over just could NOT keep the character consistent. Or maybe they never bothered to understand Thane's ME2 development.

Also, I find it insulting that even though his death is forced Shepard is never given an option to express any feelings or emotion over it. That is terrible writing. When the man you love is dying it stands to reason you will tell him you love him and show some emotion. That never happens.

His death is pretty much the same whether you romanced him or not.

It's just bad writing all around. Even Thane getting stabbed by Kai Leng was nonsensical. Since there were three heavily armed people at hand to help him fight Leng off. Yet they just stood on the sidelines while Thane decides to jump onto Kai Leng's sword, despite having a gun.

My mind boggles at how badly Thane's character was handled in ME3.

Again I still think it was done beatutifully. Also when you talk to Thane initially after you get he says he will not take any xplants or treatments. Youtube it or replay ME2 section where you aquire him. He also says it again during your romance with him in ME2.  Thane died. Noone lives forever. He had a terminal illness w/ no cure. It blows but it's something that needs to be accepted. 

[wildannie]

Myaku1313 wrote...



Again I still think it was done beatutifully. Also when you talk to Thane initially after you get he says he will not take any xplants or treatments. Youtube it or replay ME2 section where you aquire him. He also says it again during your romance with him in ME2.  Thane died. Noone lives forever. He had a terminal illness w/ no cure. It blows but it's something that needs to be accepted. 

You're just plain wrong,  his pre-romance dossier states he didn't want a transplant (it appears the minute you recruit Thane if you've played LotSB).  Romanced  thane does not say anything of the kind in ME2. He does indicate that his outlook has changed however... you know... that bit when he cries and bares his soul to shepard.  At no point does shepard get to discuss transplant or or new CDN treatment possibilities with Thane once romanced.

[earendil87]

At the end of ME2 Thane came to my cabin CRYING because he was AFRAID to die, and in ME3 he was suddenly okay: does that make sense to any of you? please, we are talking about the romance, only the romance

I don't f***ing care if he dies or not, I want a decent romance story, that's all!

Modifié par earendil87, 27 juin 2012 - 09:03 .

[Skullheart]

btw, who wrote thane in ME?

From a romanced Thane who didn't want to die to a Thane that accepts death is jus like, WTF?

Did the writer know how the character was?

[Myaku1313]

wildannie wrote...

Myaku1313 wrote...



Again I still think it was done beatutifully. Also when you talk to Thane initially after you get he says he will not take any xplants or treatments. Youtube it or replay ME2 section where you aquire him. He also says it again during your romance with him in ME2.  Thane died. Noone lives forever. He had a terminal illness w/ no cure. It blows but it's something that needs to be accepted. 

You're just plain wrong,  his pre-romance dossier states he didn't want a transplant (it appears the minute you recruit Thane if you've played LotSB).  Romanced  thane does not say anything of the kind in ME2. He does indicate that his outlook has changed however... you know... that bit when he cries and bares his soul to shepard.  At no point does shepard get to discuss transplant or or new CDN treatment possibilities with Thane once romanced.

I am not talking about his dossier. I am talking about Thane himself.  He verbally says it.  It starts with you checking to see if there is anything that can be done about his health when you recruit him. It turns into a discussion about the Normandy med bay which then he starts talking about Hanar and medical advancements.  He made it pretty clear.

[Vlk3]

Myaku, did you play the same game? Cause what you wrote is just incorrect. I played ME2 recently and i remember most of the dialogue with Thane. When romanced, he says that he's afraid of death and he cares about Shepard. He does not want to die And there is also no talk between him and Shepard about lung transplant, so what you say is just not true. And he says that the cure "is being attended" even before his LM- he's still resigned to die then.

I hope BioWare will eventually listen for people who actually care for Thane. Thinking that someone's existence is all about dying means you don't really like and understand that character.

And one more thing: If Miranda accidentally died in my playthrough, does it cheapen the experience of someone who was able to keep her alive? I still don't know how did it happen and you know what?... I really think that some of you know Thane deserved more content along with other ME2 characters. So if there was one scenario, hard to achieve and perhaps with some sacrifice that most of you wouldn't choose, that would result in Thane surviving the meeting with Kai Leng, how would it destroy your game?

If in someone's game one character can live does it really hurt you so? Does it change your game? I keep repeating that I want a hard to achieve and not so obvious way to save Thane. Not cure for everyone, but those who choose to do one thing isntead of the other in a DLC that would add some interesting content for everyone. And Cure could be just a bonus achieved at some cost and with special actions.

Modifié par Vlk3, 27 juin 2012 - 09:14 .

[Fraevar]

TullyAckland wrote...

Do you not remember what is said during Kai Leng's demise?

Beg pardon, it is then mentioned twice now. But still, even as someone who didn't romance the character, the point remains that it's fairly understandable that the ones who did feel like Thane didn't get his due. Maybe that could never happen, because Chris L'Etoile, his creator/original writer left BioWare, but I think most people would have felt better about it if the romance dialogue in ME3 basically amounted to an...ahem...quickie.

[wildannie]

Skullheart wrote...

btw, who wrote thane in ME?

From a romanced Thane who didn't want to die to a Thane that accepts death is jus like, WTF?

Did the writer know how the character was?

As far as I'm aware noone has owned up to Thane yet and I think that speaks volumes... they managed to write him in a way that appeals to his haters more than his fans (especially those who followed the romance path)... good job!<_<
I do know that it wasn't patrick weekes... 

Modifié par wildannie, 27 juin 2012 - 09:17 .