140 réponses à ce sujet

[Dex1701]

It is a little weird. It's not as weird as killing a guy while he's having dinner in Oblivion and seeing his wife just sit there...still smiling at you.

[anarex]

Don't kid yourself, we are all beta testing the Dragon Age MMORPG. The sad thing is how little Bioware actually understands how they work. They tried to implement many of their features but had no idea how to handle the exploits.

Modifié par anarex, 14 décembre 2009 - 11:04 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

I don't see this as an exploit at all. The Darkspawn aren't known for being especially smart.

[Dex1701]

anarex wrote...

Don't kid yourself, we are all beta testing the Dragon Age MMORPG. The sad thing is how little Bioware actually understands how they work. They tried to implement many of their features but had no idea how to handle the exploits.

I'd love to see this claim supported with some evidence or at least insightful observations.  I haven't seen a single convention in Dragon Age that originated in an MMO.

[wonko33]

In the tower of Ishmal, there were rooms that were close to each other and Fighting in one room would attract people from other rooms to join, that was pretty cool. These room were close together so the AI reaction is probably related to that.

I think think the AI reaction should not be based on position of the player but on the position of their "friend" that is getting attacked, then alertness could be "contagious" and more would come. You could set an ambush that way but it would not feel like an exploit anymore, it just would be good tactics to draw the group to you.

If they understood cover better the one attacked could run to cover and force you to advance and trigger their ambush.

Modifié par wonko33, 14 décembre 2009 - 11:33 .

[addiction21]

Dex1701 wrote...

anarex wrote...

Don't kid yourself, we are all beta testing the Dragon Age MMORPG. The sad thing is how little Bioware actually understands how they work. They tried to implement many of their features but had no idea how to handle the exploits.

I'd love to see this claim supported with some evidence or at least insightful observations.  I haven't seen a single convention in Dragon Age that originated in an MMO.

*climbs out from under his bridge*

WoW had a similiar interfaces, skills, specializations, experiance, levels, elves, dwarfs, pubs, bricks, swords, sharp pointy things, magic, toast, bad people, good people, ugly people, short people, bald people, axes, and more...

Short answers is WHOOOOOSHHHH... right over your head dex.

[Sylixe]

When will people realise this is NOT an exploit and a game mechanic.  It's been a tried and true STRATEGY in games for a very long time.  If designers don't want you doing it they can easily fix it by "Linking" groups together.  Now if you want a real exploit that would be using an in game axis to cause mobs to not agro or get stuck.

DAO + MMO = Never going to happen so get over it.

Modifié par Sylixe, 14 décembre 2009 - 11:56 .

[Dex1701]

addiction21 wrote...

Dex1701 wrote...

anarex wrote...

Don't kid yourself, we are all beta testing the Dragon Age MMORPG. The sad thing is how little Bioware actually understands how they work. They tried to implement many of their features but had no idea how to handle the exploits.

I'd love to see this claim supported with some evidence or at least insightful observations.  I haven't seen a single convention in Dragon Age that originated in an MMO.

*climbs out from under his bridge*

WoW had a similiar interfaces, skills, specializations, experiance, levels, elves, dwarfs, pubs, bricks, swords, sharp pointy things, magic, toast, bad people, good people, ugly people, short people, bald people, axes, and more...

Short answers is WHOOOOOSHHHH... right over your head dex.

Blizzard also invented waffles.  Don't forget about that one.  Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

[Mackey18]

"Some call it an exploit, others call it a tactic."



Agreed

[Sadinar]

I choose not to abuse the AI in order to make fights easier.

[Vaeliorin]

There's only one fight that I use it for intentionally, and that's a fairly early encounter in the game before you have much chance to level up any of your companions (at most I've had one level up for anyone other than your very first companion by that time.) Every time I've tried it without splitting the group, it's just overwhelmed me, due to their being a complete lack of useful crowd control available at that point, and having absolutely terrible equipment.

[Solica]

Of course I used this so called 'exploit'. Wouldn't have been able to progress through the game without it, that is: up to the moment I got 'sleep' and 'arrow of slaying' and 1.01 patch.

I have to consider 'sleep' spell a bigger 'exploit' than lure. Maybe it's not strictly an exploit. At least it makes the game a lot easier.

[konfeta]

While abusing the horrible AI is a "tactic," is it really something you would want the encounters balanced around?



"Epic, Dark Fantasy" shouldn't get its name from mockingly killing groups of soldiers by abusing people who were dropped on their heads as babies before joining the army.

[Dex1701]

konfeta wrote...

While abusing the horrible AI is a "tactic," is it really something you would want the encounters balanced around?

"Epic, Dark Fantasy" shouldn't get its name from mockingly killing groups of soldiers by abusing people who were dropped on their heads as babies before joining the army.

Guard: "So then I said, if your mother wasn't such a stupid nug wrangler she'd-- ouch!  Hey, I just got hit by an arrow!  You guys wait here while I check it out.  If I don't come back don't worry about me.  I'm sure it's nothing..."

[AshedMan]

This is a tactic and not an exploit. 

Modifié par AshedMan, 15 décembre 2009 - 01:36 .

[konfeta]

I wonder how many would-be Alexanders or Rommels would ingloriously fall if Bioware introduced linking the aggro between enemies in a group.

Modifié par konfeta, 15 décembre 2009 - 01:39 .

[addiction21]

konfeta wrote...

I wonder how many would-be Alexanders or Rommels would ingloriously fall if Bioware introduced linking the aggro between enemies in a group.

yes?

[Eurypterid]

I personally feel it's an exploit. As noted above, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense that someone would take an arrow in the rear and not alert his buddies that there just may be a problem out there.



As well, I inadvertently ran into this problem last night. I had my mage and other two companions set up in a good spot to defend and sent my Rogue in to pull the mobs into my waiting ambush. Trouble was, when I hit them with an arrow or popped out of stealth mode to let them see me, they'd come running only a short distance before turning back. Only the one I was closest to would follow. Finally, I gave up that tactic and just rushed them. But it's annoying to have only one or two become alarmed when one of their buddies suddenly sprouts arrows shafts from his face.

[Thelios0]

Dex1701 wrote...

Guard: "So then I said, if your mother wasn't such a stupid nug wrangler she'd-- ouch!  Hey, I just got hit by an arrow!  You guys wait here while I check it out.  If I don't come back don't worry about me.  I'm sure it's nothing..."

LOL! Ya think?

Well, agree that pulling is an exploit/tactic.  There are quite a few battles that you transition into and you end up neck deep in battle.  Nowhere to run, nowhere to hide.  That's when it comes down to tactics and firepower (and F9).  Those are the best. 

Modifié par Thelios0, 15 décembre 2009 - 02:55 .

[Bullets McDeath]

Forget "luring".



Does any one use the "hitting enemies with your weapons until they die from lack of HP" exploit?

[Maria Caliban]

It's cheese. Pulling isn't that bad in itself, but many games were pulling is a good tactic breaks up large mobs into a bunch of smaller ones. If you just ran up to Group A, then Group B would hear the fighting and come to look, if you attack Group A at range then only they come to you. Even then, there are fights were pulling doesn't work as Group A calls to Group B and both attack, but at least the pull buys you more time to plunk at Group A.



Yes, I'd rather Bioware have 'shouting' AIs.

[onefutui2e]

i discovered the pulling tactic/exploit accidentally during the early-midpoint of my first playthrough when I wasn't exactly 100% sure what I was doing. I was getting my butt handed to me repeatedly because either certain spells and abilities weren't ready or I didn't pick them yet (latter was my fault, but really, this was my first playthrough). The pulling really saved me a lot of time and frustration over certain mob encounters that I just couldn't get by no matter how often I tried to adjust strategies within my means. So this was an oversight by BioWare; yes, design flaws contributed to the problem but they pretty much made it necessary through the early part of the game, which then becomes ingrained as habit as the game progresses. i don't really use it as much now, namely because IMO bloodwound-fireball-tempest-etc. is MUCH cheaper (in the right situations)

i remember in IWD2, the goblin camp in the early part of the game was ridiculous considering the drums and whatnot. Everytime I saw it i was like, "OMG KILL THE DRUM OR THE GOBLIN!" and it was pretty intense since your party wasn't really up to the point where they can one-shot him before he gets 2-3 bangs off the drum, which was usually enough to bring enough guys in to wipe you. they should've implemented something similar to this alarm system.

pulling is kind of lame, i agree. i think if WoW weakened their mobs accordingly but upped their numbers and sent them at you in droves/waves, it would make me return (my rain of fire wiping out dozens of mobs at once?! YES PLEASE). but after 2-3 years of playing, eventually i wised up and realized that blizzard's dungeon dungeon was very raid-friendly and each pull was just a "okay, is everyone good? okay, rez the dead, heal up, and let's get to the next one..."

Modifié par onefutui2e, 15 décembre 2009 - 03:32 .

[Emmental]

This has also been crossing my mind lately, as I seem to have been using this tactic more and more and I agree that it doesn't seem right that a bad guy would stand and watch while his buddy next to him is arrowed to death.

So, I've put together a small script override which alerts nearby creatures to any attackers/seen players:

Bring a Friend

It's still really in testing but seems to be working OK so far. The initial values are any creatures within 15 metres of each other have a 90% chance of also being made aware. I can tweak these values later if needed but any feedback is appreciated (preferably on the project page).

Modifié par Emmental, 15 décembre 2009 - 03:40 .

[Sylixe]

News Alert..Blizzard did NOT invent the pulling mechanic. It existed years before Wow ever did. I can remember playing RPG's in the mid 90's where you could seperate mobs in such a manner. It only became mainstream and acceptable when you needed to do it in Everquest. In those cases it was absolutely needed because there wasn't always an enchanter available for your group.

[cipher86]

I don't call it a "bug" or a "glitch", but it's against the design. Some games are designed with the expectation that players will learn to pull a few enemies from larger groups, which first requires you to watch their movement patterns and find the best time to pull those few to reduce the amount of enemies being alerted and pulled.

In DA:O, the design is that you run into a room and learn to take the group on as provided.  Enemies don't wander around and leave openings, so there is no strategy involved in the "pulling" in this game.  As has been said, it's pretty silly to spot a group of 12 enemies, hit one of them with Lightning, and have him run at you while the other 11 stand there like nothing happened.

To those who consider pulling a viable tactic in DA:O: I hope Bioware creates a shout radius, so I can taste your tears.

Modifié par cipher86, 15 décembre 2009 - 03:50 .