140 réponses à ce sujet

[Tonya777]

Anyone got a video of this? I tried using lure traps before but nothing really happened as far as I noticed so I think I did it wrong XD

[Sylixe]

cipher86 wrote...

I don't call it a "bug" or a "glitch", but it's against the design. Some games are designed with the expectation that players will learn to pull a few enemies from larger groups, which first requires you to watch their movement patterns and find the best time to pull those few to reduce the amount of enemies being alerted and pulled.

In DA:O, the design is that you run into a room and learn to take the group on as provided.  Enemies don't wander around and leave openings, so there is no strategy involved in the "pulling" in this game.  As has been said, it's pretty silly to spot a group of 12 enemies, hit one of them with Lightning, and have him run at you while the other 11 stand there like nothing happened.

To those who consider pulling a viable tactic in DA:O: I hope Bioware creates a shout radius, so I can taste your tears.

I hope they do as well so we can pull out a bow and shoot one mob and draw everything in the room into a bottle neck.  Then LoS them around a corner so they all stand in one spot and we can just AoE them down real easy.

As long as the Computer AI isn't smart enough NOT to chase you back to your spot you can always use it to your advantage.

Modifié par Sylixe, 15 décembre 2009 - 03:59 .

[AiyanaLindari]

I see this as a strategic RP opportunity. A rogue is more likely to use the lure/pull technique, whereas a warrior would more likely rush in and fight more enemies at a time. It all depends on who is leading the party at the time.

[konfeta]

If you want strategery and RP opportunity, a Rogue would be more likely to set up a few traps and then lure the whole group into the thing.

[AiyanaLindari]

konfeta wrote...

If you want strategery and RP opportunity, a Rogue would be more likely to set up a few traps and then lure the whole group into the thing.

Yes, traps are definitely in the rogue's domain but why shouldn't pulling be also?
I think pulling is simply another aspect that can be role played to keep things interesting for multiple playthroughs. I don't see it as an exploit.

[Cadarin]

I'm in the middle on this. I do think it's very cheap to pull a single enemy at a time. In my mind, if they're in the same area, you're supposed to fight all of them.

I don't think it's an exploit to pull an entire room into an ambush though. I did this all the time for the first half of the game. If anyone's wandering, it's very easy to pull a whole room, just attack whoever's furthest back. They'll aggro everyone else as they charge you.

I'd definitely download a mod that added a "shout" mechanic though. I too miss some of the epic fights that occur in the older crpgs when everybody wants your blood.

[Emmental]

Cadarin wrote...
I'd definitely download a mod that added a "shout" mechanic though.

I posted one on page 2 (Bring a Friend).

[Eurypterid]

AiyanaLindari wrote...

konfeta wrote...

If you want strategery and RP opportunity, a Rogue would be more likely to set up a few traps and then lure the whole group into the thing.

Yes, traps are definitely in the rogue's domain but why shouldn't pulling be also?
I think pulling is simply another aspect that can be role played to keep things interesting for multiple playthroughs. I don't see it as an exploit.

From a roleplay angle, though, it doesn't make sense that there would be a room full of enemies, you shoot an arrow and hit one, and none of his buddies bat an eyelash at it as an arrow sprouts from his torso and he goes off to investigate alone. That's why it's viewed as an exploit.

Don't get me wrong, if a player chooses to use it, that's fine. It's a single player game, after all, so you can do as you like.

[cipher86]

Sylixe wrote...

I hope they do as well so we can pull out a bow and shoot one mob and draw everything in the room into a bottle neck.  Then LoS them around a corner so they all stand in one spot and we can just AoE them down real easy.

Yeahhh I have a friend who got through a lot of the hard fights in this game by having his mage throw an AoE spell over walls.  Enemies would take the damage but wouldn't know where it was coming from apparently, just stood still and burned.

[Pennoyer]

Damar Stiehl wrote...

It's called pulling. Standard MMO tactic. Deal with it.

There is nothing "standard" about the "tactic" as used in this game.  You are picking off parts of a larger group one at a time while adjacent enemies do absolutely nothing.  There is no point in telling you this because you are probably a tactical mastermind.  Btw, you do know this is not an mmo right? 

"Pull one enemy much better than fight full army."  - Sun Tzu 

[Sidney]

Eurypterid wrote...

From a roleplay angle, though, it doesn't make sense that there would be a room full of enemies, you shoot an arrow and hit one, and none of his buddies bat an eyelash at it as an arrow sprouts from his torso and he goes off to investigate alone. That's why it's viewed as an exploit.

Don't get me wrong, if a player chooses to use it, that's fine. It's a single player game, after all, so you can do as you like.

To me this doesn't happen in DAO. If I engage a target in a room they will all attack me - sometimes the archers will stand still.  There's an issue with why they would come to you but I chalk it up to hubris - "Hey there's only that one of him and 5,6,7, or so of us".

In reality if you shoot room A rooms B-Z should all come running and not just stand around as the screams of their vanquished friends echo off the walls of the dungeon waiting for the ice adventurers to find them.

The bigger "cheese" if you will in this game is the ability to use Inferno, Blizzard and their ilk from outside a room and cast it into a room w/o opening the door.

[Maria Caliban]

AiyanaLindari wrote...

I see this as a strategic RP opportunity. A rogue is more likely to use the lure/pull technique, whereas a warrior would more likely rush in and fight more enemies at a time. It all depends on who is leading the party at the time.

Because rogues are cunning and sly while warriors are blathering idiots. It says so on page 20 of the role-playing manual.

[Emin Aliyev]

For those of you who keep saying its a TACTIC are full of ****. If its a tactic then the game should be designed around such tactics (such as in WoW), which means a single mob should have the means to take out your whole party if you dont play correctly. that is not the case, so this is an exploit

[Faerell Gustani]

Maria Caliban wrote...

AiyanaLindari wrote...

I see this as a strategic RP opportunity. A rogue is more likely to use the lure/pull technique, whereas a warrior would more likely rush in and fight more enemies at a time. It all depends on who is leading the party at the time.

Because rogues are cunning and sly while warriors are blathering idiots. It says so on page 20 of the role-playing manual.

I hate that distinction.  Any sort of combat training requires that you be intelligent in your application of force.

[Darth_Trethon]

It's not so much an exploit as it is a strategy......and a long, painful, boring and annoying strategy at that. No I do not use it nor do I ever intend to....if it comes down to that I just lower the difficulty or use some real exploits(duping items, glitching infinite XP....etc.) and keep enjoying the game as I see fit.

[Kallian82]

Ultimately the gamer can choose to make his decision. I for one after reading this thread am not going to pull any longer. I will consider future games with Being a Friend mod too.

[SheffSteel]

If the designers intended you to fight one monster at a time, why don't they place the monsters separately? That would be a lot more fun than picking off one or two at a time.

It's as if they're making sure they're "covering all the bases" in case your brain fell out since the last encounter, and you suddently thought you could take on a whole roomful.



Side point: pulling isn't a "standard feature of MMOs". It is the cheapest level of AI that notices it's being damaged and associates that with who's responsible. At one point in game history, it was state of the art.

[Charliff01]

Without it i wouldnt be able to get far i this game...even on easy..



/awaits the L2P flames from the wow-kidies on this forum.

[Starmartyr]

Skellimancer wrote...

Its a bug that needs to be fixed.

Here's an idea. don't like it? Don't use it.

Let other people play the game the way they want to. Don't try and force BioWare to "fix" something just because you don't like it.

[Wardka]

Definitely a flaw in the AI and unintended behavior. It's silly to talk about "exploits" in singleplayer games, but it's also something that I'd want to see fixed if I called the shots at Bioware as it drags down the quality of the game somewhat. It's kind of astounding, really - consider all the breakthroughs that have been made in games the last... ten years or so. The graphics are amazing now, we have hardware physics support, crazy huge detailed worlds to roam around in, etc etc... then two things constantly and consistently lag behind.



AI and hair. Enemies are always dumb as bricks, and hair always looks terrible unless it's really short.

[AiyanaLindari]

Eurypterid wrote...

AiyanaLindari wrote...

konfeta wrote...

If you want strategery and RP opportunity, a Rogue would be more likely to set up a few traps and then lure the whole group into the thing.

Yes, traps are definitely in the rogue's domain but why shouldn't pulling be also?
I think pulling is simply another aspect that can be role played to keep things interesting for multiple playthroughs. I don't see it as an exploit.

From a roleplay angle, though, it doesn't make sense that there would be a room full of enemies, you shoot an arrow and hit one, and none of his buddies bat an eyelash at it as an arrow sprouts from his torso and he goes off to investigate alone. That's why it's viewed as an exploit.

Don't get me wrong, if a player chooses to use it, that's fine. It's a single player game, after all, so you can do as you like.

I see your point. Perhaps it simply needs to be implemented better in the case you mention.
However, distraction and pulling enemies away from the group is still a valid strategic move. It makes sense to thin down a group before taking it on, especially if the character being played isn't built for melee. Pulling tactics is another option for roleplaying. Implement it better perhaps but don't take it out completely.

[Sam -stone- serious]

I think its a design flaw in general. Sometimes you just have to resort to that tactic due to the sheer number of enemies that are waiting for you. Its necessary but it looks unrealistic and kind of stupid or simply silly.



The best "balance" to it would be to reduce the number of enemies in each of these situations and just make the AI behave in a more realistic and smart manner. Cheese tactics used by the game often resort to cheese tactics from the players.

[FlintlockJazz]

addiction21 wrote...

Dex1701 wrote...

anarex wrote...

Don't kid yourself, we are all beta testing the Dragon Age MMORPG. The sad thing is how little Bioware actually understands how they work. They tried to implement many of their features but had no idea how to handle the exploits.

I'd love to see this claim supported with some evidence or at least insightful observations.  I haven't seen a single convention in Dragon Age that originated in an MMO.

*climbs out from under his bridge*

WoW had a similiar interfaces, skills, specializations, experiance, levels, elves, dwarfs, pubs, bricks, swords, sharp pointy things, magic, toast, bad people, good people, ugly people, short people, bald people, axes, and more...

Short answers is WHOOOOOSHHHH... right over your head dex.

Yes because WoW invented elves, dwarves, pubs, bricks , swords etc and was the first to include them in a computer game...

[Wardka]

You don't have to resort to those tactics at all, I've never done it. The key to winning fights is to use crowd control, not to cheese the game. Stuns, freezes, sleep, knockdown, roots... there are plenty of ways to tip the scales in your favor, and that's not even counting using cover and consumables.

[wonko33]

Eurypterid wrote...

I personally feel it's an exploit. As noted above, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense that someone would take an arrow in the rear and not alert his buddies that there just may be a problem out there.
.

Well the way the AI is programmed you either do an exploit or play like an idiot.

I use stealth to scout ahead, I see an ambush, it would be stupid to rush in there no? So I set up my own ambush, attack from a distance to draw them away from their setup, but only one of them comes at a time, now i'm exploiting the game.

If the AI was set up to react better, they would either mass an organized attact agaisnt me or (if the ennemies are smart enough) take cover and force me to walk into their prepared ambush.

That's why I don't see it as an exploit, because i'm not going to play like an idiot just because the AI is lacking. But IMO the game would be a lot more fun if the AI was tweaked like I mentioned previously. But as I have read in many devs posts, those change are not always as easy as we think, so I dont know.