332 réponses à ce sujet

[GreenDragon37]

Youmu wrote...

justlogme wrote...

Agreed OP, one needs to face their problems and fight them (is this case the star child) not become its slave. I mean the star child is the master of the reapers commanding them to destroy all you know and love, why would you bow to its will and do what it wants?

But the next cycle bows. 

Shepard not bowing just leads massive amounts of death without changing the outcome from the RGB choices Shepard could have picked in the first place. All Shepard does in Reject is make the next cycle choose instead.

Wow, this litteraly just sealed the deal. Picking rejection is kind of pointless if the next cyce uses it anyways. It sticks with the ideals of Shepard, but other than that, no. My canon ending is Destroy. It's the closest thing that does not compromise my Shep's morals and completes his goals and doesn't end up dooming his cycle and mayeb even the next.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 27 juin 2012 - 01:36 .

[Baronesa]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

Youmu wrote...

justlogme wrote...

Agreed OP, one needs to face their problems and fight them (is this case the star child) not become its slave. I mean the star child is the master of the reapers commanding them to destroy all you know and love, why would you bow to its will and do what it wants?

But the next cycle bows. 

Shepard not bowing just leads massive amounts of death without changing the outcome from the RGB choices Shepard could have picked in the first place. All Shepard does in Reject is make the next cycle choose instead.

Wow, this litteraly just sealed the deal. Picking rejection is kind of pointless if the next cyce uses it anyways. It sticks with the ideals of Shepard, but other than that, no. My canon ending is Destroy.

Sorry... but going from what we see on the ending. Liara tells the enxt cycle that the Crucible DOES NOT WORK. Then the stargazer simply said the information helped them to achieve peace... and the Stargazer  looks very very similar to an Asari... implying that either only Asari or maybe other races survived into the next cycle somehow...

Nothing at all suggest that they USED the crucible (why would you use something that does not work?). We only have an interpretation that does not seem to rely on accurate observation... or if that was the intent... it was not properly conveyed on the information they delivered in game.

[LordRaptor]

I really like this thread and will post when I'm home and not on iPhone.

[ShdwFox7]

After thinking on it a bit, I think their is another, very, very important reason the reject ending is the best. You have absolutely no reason to believe the Catalyst at face value. None at all.

When it comes to a decision of morality, I find it's always to better to pick the decision that is correct for that moment, not because of what you predict might happen. The options the Catalyst present are a complete leap of faith. So yes, I rather reject the Catalyst and try and fight a convential war. If that conventional war fails, and their is no hope left, then maybe I'd take that leap of faith; but not until I've exhausted all the other options.

Modifié par ShdwFox7, 27 juin 2012 - 02:03 .

[Ranger Jack Walker]

OMG GUYS DON'T SHOOT OUR ARTISTIC VISION!
SO BE IT! Now everyone dies!

-Bioware's reponse to everyone shooting the Catalyst when the game first came out.

Modifié par Ranger Jack Walker, 27 juin 2012 - 02:42 .

[PaoloModica]

Shepard refusing IMO is only a Shepard that cannot face reality.
You have to choose or everyone will die.
You have three ways to bring peace and save everyone, or the majority, and in the refusal you simply say "I hate reapers, so I don't listen", yeah, very mature, billions of deaths for a principle.

And for everyone saying that in the last battle there is a possibility of winning the reapers.
They are not all of the reapers.
In the rest of the galaxy there are still 10000 times the reapers you just fought on earth.
If the fleet, no matter ems, can't defeat 1/10000 of the reapers army without almost being wiped out, how could you possibly win the rest of the reapers.
IT IS AN ENTIRE GALAXY, YOU CAN'T SAVE ALL IN A FEW DAYS OR YEARS!
The battle between protheans and reapers endured for centurys!
And it was only cleaning the galaxy from the protheans, not a real war!

[Eluril]

Just wanted to say I really love the addition of this ending and I feel it was actually meant as a note of respect for fans, not "spite". They wouldn 't have put it in and did it the way they did if they weren't listening to criticism.

[Anuvis13]

TC, I agree with you 100%. It's still absurd that no matter the EMS score or what choice we made Shepard can't enjoy a victory with his friends and LI.

[3rd-apex]

to the original poster: You make the assumption that the reapers can be beat by EMS. Guess what, the Reapers can NOT be beaten conventionally. I think that is pretty clear throughout all of ME1 and 3.

[Baronesa]

3rd-apex wrote...

to the original poster: You make the assumption that the reapers can be beat by EMS. Guess what, the Reapers can NOT be beaten conventionally. I think that is pretty clear throughout all of ME1 and 3.

That is what they keep saying... yet we have CODEX entries that contradict this... Palaven? And of course our actions... there are ways to beat them... The Reapers are spread around the Galaxy, concentrating on one spot would destroy their presence on that place (Thessia or Palaven) but goign to Earth were THE MAJORITY OF REAPER FORCES are gathered was really a stroke of pure and complete stupidity "Hey.. let's go where there are MORE reapers to face them in a sort of Naval Battle instead of using hit and run tactics that ACTUALLY worked above Palaven?"

[Eluril]

Here's a hint: Admiral Hackett right before going to Earth says, "The Reapers can't be defeated conventionally".

Now what should I believe, a small text in the codex that points to small, tactical victories, OR the opinion of a major character within the game that has FAR more knowledge of strategic fleet strength opposition strength etc????

[Baronesa]

You can't reach the Mu Relay...

You can't use the Omega 4 Relay...

You can't survive the suicide mission or defeat the collectors...

uhmmm yup.

[Eluril]

Different circumstances, those are small time, tactical/exploration issues, not strategic fleet things. Seriously, think what you want. I'm glad they made the Reapers unbeatable conventionally. It makes total sense to me why the combined organic cycles would need to work together to defeat something that absorbs the knowledge and technology of whole other civilizations for a billion years.

[Sir Fluffykins]

It may not be great but it's okay and also, though I didn't like this whole PR stunt, it got me to stay on ME3 far longer than I would normally stay on a game.

Modifié par Sir Fluffykins, 27 juin 2012 - 05:40 .

[QuanManChu]

Starchild:" You can enslave us, merge all organics and synthetics or simply destroy us and all synthetics like us".

Sheppard:"Nope".

Starchild:" So be it".

GAMEOVER!!!!!!!!!!!!


Yup...that didn't come off the least bit capricious.

[Shade of Wolf]

Eterna5 wrote...

Both reject and destroy are ultimately selfish and short sighted options.

Gah! The Illusive Man is alive!

[Shade of Wolf]

To be honest, I think all the endings make you a loser.Maybe that was the point. Shepard fina;;y gets to a point where he HAS to be morally ambiguous, even the reject option makes that so.
I wanted it to be like ME2; you could lose, but under specific conditions,you could save everyone. I thought that was the spirit of BioWare games in general. Probably just me.

[sp0ck 06]

Its funny how a lot of people are treating the "reject" option like a slap in the face from bioware. This was one of the major criticisms of the ending, one of a main requests, they do a pretty good job of it (IMHO), and still people just cannot stop raging.

To those of you that feel this way...what would you have preferred in a "reject" scenario? And don't say a "conventional victory" because that is clearly not an option.

[Baronesa]

sp0ck 06 wrote...

Its funny how a lot of people are treating the "reject" option like a slap in the face from bioware. This was one of the major criticisms of the ending, one of a main requests, they do a pretty good job of it (IMHO), and still people just cannot stop raging.

To those of you that feel this way...what would you have preferred in a "reject" scenario? And don't say a "conventional victory" because that is clearly not an option.

"What would you prefer of X?, but don't say Y cause that is off the table" is a poor way of asking.

What I would have liked?

EMS having an impact on the Reject.

Lowest possible EMS: Reapers win, no Liara message... cycle continues for many cycle

Low - mid EMS: Exactly as it is

High or Very high EMS : The Fleet wins with conventional means, or at least liberates Earth and you get a slide that the war  last for a few centuries but eventually you win.

[Warrior Craess]

prog_bassist wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...

In the reject ending everyone dies and the Reapers win. If Shepard chooses anything else the Reapers lose and the galaxy is saved.


The reject ending is the loser ending.

The Reapers don't win.  The next cycle beats the Reapers with Liara's capsule.

Which is a lose for this cycle.  The blinders you people wear is astounding.  Shepard is a soldier. His job isn't to ensure that some future freaking cycle survives. It's to ensure that THIS freaking cycle surives.  reject fails this completely. 

Modifié par Warrior Craess, 27 juin 2012 - 04:56 .

[CaliGuy033]

Reject is a terrible ending in which Shepard's arrogance and stubbornness causes everyone in his cycle to die when he could have saved many (or all) of them.

I love that the OP called this a "hard truths" thread. classic sign of a weak or unsupportable opinion.

[Comsky159]

So happy that Bioware did it. I don't care how much they hate it internally, it's still the only intrinsically satisfying, least retarded end.

Thankyou Bioware!

Modifié par Comsky159, 27 juin 2012 - 04:58 .

[Baronesa]

Warrior Craess wrote...

Which is a lose for this cycle.  The blinders you people wear is astounding.  Shepard is a soldier. His job isn't to ensure that some future freaking cycle survives. It's to ensure that THIS freaking cycle surives.  reject fails this completely. 

In hindsight and with metagaming knowledge??? you are correct.

from in game POV is Shepard firmly believing that WE. CAN. WIN. THIS. or go down fighting.

From a complete immersion point of view... Do you accept solutions presented by the being controlling your mortal enemies? or stick to your guns?

[Warrior Craess]

Baronesa wrote...

3rd-apex wrote...

to the original poster: You make the assumption that the reapers can be beat by EMS. Guess what, the Reapers can NOT be beaten conventionally. I think that is pretty clear throughout all of ME1 and 3.

That is what they keep saying... yet we have CODEX entries that contradict this... Palaven? And of course our actions... there are ways to beat them... The Reapers are spread around the Galaxy, concentrating on one spot would destroy their presence on that place (Thessia or Palaven) but goign to Earth were THE MAJORITY OF REAPER FORCES are gathered was really a stroke of pure and complete stupidity "Hey.. let's go where there are MORE reapers to face them in a sort of Naval Battle instead of using hit and run tactics that ACTUALLY worked above Palaven?"

Baronesa, yes the fleet could possibly save earth. So what? Shepards the only one in the citadal,  and powerless to stop the reapers (starbrat) from closing the arms again.

So earth is saved, the brat closes the citadel, turns off the transport beam, and closes the relays.  Brat then calls for all reaper forces in the entire galaxy to head to their nearest  relays. Once all reapers are gathered he selectively opens relay transport. All reapers relay in, brats closes relays down again. Reaper's procede to track down the galaxy fleet (being faster and not requiring static discharge). Battle becomes unavoidable. Just how do you think that fight is going to go?  Let me give you a hint.  It ends like this; the cycle continues unabated. 

In order for there to be a chance of a conventional victory (which btw I would really prefer) ME2 and 3 would have to be re-written. The politicians would have had to buy into the reaper threat. Secret bases and infrastructure would have to have been built (and not betrayed by indoctrinated people).  Since this didn't happen conventional war has absolutely 0 chance of being successful.  At most it would make the final culling take a bit longer. 


Lets now take a moment to debunk your bleed them till we win scenario.  It's called a war of attrition, and it also favors the reapers.  It also requires that the reaper not close down the relays. It requires the speculation that MOST of the reapers are at earth, instead of just a significantly large portion.  Based on representation of the other homeworlds that just doesn't have the ring of truth.  It requires a place to restock and refit which currently doesn't exist.  So basically we're fubared, and all the military people know this including shepard.   So in a choice with no hope, vs a choice with some slim amount of hope it's really no contest. 

Modifié par Warrior Craess, 27 juin 2012 - 05:17 .

[eye basher]

Why would i let so other clown destroy the reapers god knows when if i can do it now that's my thunder and nobody is gonna steal it. Just shoot the pipe and go home.