332 réponses à ce sujet

[Ruilus]

Best ending without a doubt. The "live free or die" philosophy is the only thing worth standing for, really.

[cogsandcurls]

Certainly the one in which my Shep felt most in-character. It's only the relatively short length/sparse nature that makes me even glance at the other options (and even then only Destroy).

Crank it up to twelve minutes like the other endings, get Shep to radio Hackett and tell him the Crucible is a no-go instead of standing there, show the galaxy coming together and fighting to the death in a blaze of glory, hell, show how things like the Genophage would have changed the playing field a little as the years of the war of attrition waged on (hoardes of new Krogan!). SHOW the next cycle bringing them down instead of telling us. Then you've got my Forever Ending. Never let it be said I don't love bittersweet.

[SeconDream]

Zine2 wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...

In the reject ending everyone dies and the Reapers win. If Shepard chooses anything else the Reapers lose and the galaxy is saved.


The reject ending is the loser ending.

Heroism is often not about how you win, but how you face defeat.

That you cannot fathom this exceedingly simple maxim only demonstrates the stupid, childish spite that permeates many of the people who defend the original ending.

I find this thread hilarious and ironic.

Here you preach about morals, and the "proper" or "correct" ending, when in truth, there is none.

By "none", I refer to the terms "proper" and "correct". You find it, as you claim, "morally upright" and "sane".

Yet, by all accounts, is this not your personal opinion? Morals are not determined by others, much less by people like you who, from this thread, seem hell bent of insisting that the "Reject" ending is the true ending.

Which comes down to this: On what basis, do you generalise your morals to the general population, and to what extend does it hold true?

I do not wish to incite an incident, but your argument, while commendable and a fun romp to read, simply cannot be generalised to the public.

Oh, and please, OP, do try to understand, people have a right to their opinion. You do as well, but when you shove it down people's throats, well worse things has happened.

Modifié par SeconDream, 27 juin 2012 - 05:35 .

[Ridwan]

Take a stand or become a slave.

[Mizukage77]

If you look at the outcomes , Reject is the worst ending possible. You loose everything and you let the reapers continue for a least 50 000 years.

And also, ever heard the expression " don't shoot the messanger?" , cause people seems to think the catalyst is the one reponsible for the crucible options , he isn't , he just explain to you what the crucible is capable of , he didn't build it , the crucible was meant for dealing with the reapers, so using it ,is not  doing the catalyst bidding .

To sum up the outcomes:

                         Your Cycle     Catalyst/Reapers
Control            Win                 Loss              
Synthethis      Win                  Win
Destroy           Win                  Loss
Reject             Loss                Win or Loss ( the next cycle might choose synthethis for all we know).

Choosing between using the crucible or rejecting it , is not about morality, it's about rationality , any rational individual will not choose an option where he looses.

The illusive man was right after all .... AND SO WAS KAI LENG " IF YOU CAN'T MAKE THE HARD CHOICES  STEP ASIDE FOR THOSE WHO CAN!":devil:

[PaoloModica]

Mizukage77 wrote...

If you look at the outcomes , Reject is the worst ending possible. You loose everything and you let the reapers continue for a least 50 000 years.

And also, ever heard the expression " don't shoot the messanger?" , cause people seems to think the catalyst is the one reponsible for the crucible options , he isn't , he just explain to you what the crucible is capable of , he didn't build it , the crucible was meant for dealing with the reapers, so using it ,is not  doing the catalyst bidding .

To sum up the outcomes:

                         Your Cycle     Catalyst/Reapers
Control            Win                 Loss              
Synthethis      Win                  Win
Destroy           Win                  Loss
Reject             Loss                Win or Loss ( the next cycle might choose synthethis for all we know).

Choosing between using the crucible or rejecting it , is not about morality, it's about rationality , any rational individual will not choose an option where he looses.

The illusive man was right after all .... AND SO WAS KAI LENG " IF YOU CAN'T MAKE THE HARD CHOICES  STEP ASIDE FOR THOSE WHO CAN!":devil:

I took the synthesis,because saves almost everyone but me.
Yes, changes the nature itself of humans.
But for me a human is not his DNA, but his soul (atheist here, soul is intended like personality, thoughts exterera)
They will live on, Joker could be cured from is illness and finally have a real life with EDI, my LI will live on.
Synthesis actually free even the reapers, that now can independently choose because they are now true individuals.
Everyone is happy and continue living except for Shepard, that sacrifice himself for the sake of everylife in the universe
And for me, that was my duty.
Peace, for everyone, by my own sacrifice.
Only I will suffer.
That's a HERO for me.
The one that saves everyone, no matter what.
FU** O** HONOR, I DON'T NEED YOU.
I WILL NOT REJECT ONLY FOR THE SAKE OF MY IRRATIONALLY RAGE AGAINST THE REAPERS.
I'LL SAVE EVEN THEM GIVING THE GIFT OF "UNDERSTANDING"

I found that so perfect that the rest of the choices didn't have sense for me (except for destroy, the only one that doesn't kill you by principle and is the only choice if you want to stay alive for sure)
Rejection for me wasn't a choice.
I didn't know for sure that the reapers would have won, but it was logic due to the state of the war.
That didn't deserves a genius

Modifié par PaoloModica, 27 juin 2012 - 06:52 .

[karatemanchan37]

Mizukage77 wrote...

If you look at the outcomes , Reject is the worst ending possible. You loose everything and you let the reapers continue for a least 50 000 years.

And also, ever heard the expression " don't shoot the messanger?" , cause people seems to think the catalyst is the one reponsible for the crucible options , he isn't , he just explain to you what the crucible is capable of , he didn't build it , the crucible was meant for dealing with the reapers, so using it ,is not  doing the catalyst bidding .

To sum up the outcomes:

                         Your Cycle     Catalyst/Reapers
Control            Win                 Loss              
Synthethis      Win                  Win
Destroy           Win                  Loss
Reject             Loss                Win or Loss ( the next cycle might choose synthethis for all we know).

Choosing between using the crucible or rejecting it , is not about morality, it's about rationality , any rational individual will not choose an option where he looses.

The illusive man was right after all .... AND SO WAS KAI LENG " IF YOU CAN'T MAKE THE HARD CHOICES  STEP ASIDE FOR THOSE WHO CAN!":devil:

Just a question how is Control a "Loss" for the Reapers? There's no indication that Shepard won't go rogue in the future and just starts the cycle all over again in brand new galaxies...

[IanPolaris]

karatemanchan37 wrote...

Mizukage77 wrote...

If you look at the outcomes , Reject is the worst ending possible. You loose everything and you let the reapers continue for a least 50 000 years.

And also, ever heard the expression " don't shoot the messanger?" , cause people seems to think the catalyst is the one reponsible for the crucible options , he isn't , he just explain to you what the crucible is capable of , he didn't build it , the crucible was meant for dealing with the reapers, so using it ,is not  doing the catalyst bidding .

To sum up the outcomes:

                         Your Cycle     Catalyst/Reapers
Control            Win                 Loss              
Synthethis      Win                  Win
Destroy           Win                  Loss
Reject             Loss                Win or Loss ( the next cycle might choose synthethis for all we know).

Choosing between using the crucible or rejecting it , is not about morality, it's about rationality , any rational individual will not choose an option where he looses.

The illusive man was right after all .... AND SO WAS KAI LENG " IF YOU CAN'T MAKE THE HARD CHOICES  STEP ASIDE FOR THOSE WHO CAN!":devil:

Just a question how is Control a "Loss" for the Reapers? There's no indication that Shepard won't go rogue in the future and just starts the cycle all over again in brand new galaxies...

Indeed, if you listen to a Rene-Shep after control, it seems that he (or she in my case) is very likely to go rogue and do exactly that.  With a Rene-Shep Control "Sheaper" the Reapers rule the galaxy with an iron fist.

-Polaris

[thisisme8]

karatemanchan37 wrote...

Just a question how is Control a "Loss" for the Reapers? There's no indication that Shepard won't go rogue in the future and just starts the cycle all over again in brand new galaxies...

If I take control of your car and run people over, that doesn't mean you ran them over.  Whatever Shepard chooses to do, which the EC makes painfully obvious, is in no way, shape, or form, the reapers attaining any sort of victory.

[Victia]

Reject and destroy are the only endings that I found to be anything even approaching satisfying. Control and synthesis are just not shepherd and as you point out op the latter is just wrong

[Mizukage77]

I don't think even renegade shepard would go rogue, , paragon and renegade have the same goals, just different methods, but even if he/she does, the reapers are still under his/her control, and anyway all the endings are about dealing with the reapers not something else or someone else.

[Dr_Brilliant]

I agree that Reject is probably best ending when you look at them subjectively, but just think. To reject the choices is to basically stick a middle finger up at the Reapers and doom everything in the galaxy. You say destroy is bad because it is genocide on the Geth but Reject is galaxy wide genocide. If someone is given a way to stop something, but they refuse knowing that refusing will cause them to fail then they are just as much to blame for what happens

[AxholeRose]

Zine2 wrote...

First of all, standard disclaimer. This is a "hard truths" thread.

Bioware made an incredibly bad first attempt at making an ME3 ending. They then lied about "not changing" the ending. They in fact added a 4th ending that a lot of people asked for - which is to reject the Star Child entirely.

Well, people got their wish. There is now a "Reject" option. However, Bioware chose to spite the ending by having the galaxy get annihilated by the Reapers (regardless of EMS score), and that a later civilization will break the cycle (implying they chose Red, Blue, or Green). It's little wonder that people are making fun of the line "SO BE IT" as something that was said by Mac Walters or Casey Hudson as a final insult to the people who hated their "creative vision", because it really does come off us nothing more than childish, petty spite by a pair of privelaged self-important "artists" who tried to peddle their crap as ground-breaking art.

But regardless of their intent, their attempt at spite failed. Because the Reject ending remains the best ending in the game. Defenders of the original endings will go "HAHA the people who picked Reject doomed the galaxy!", but that's because they are similarly nothing more than childish spiteful simpletons who are unable to properly assign blame.

Shepard didn't doom the Galaxy. The player did not doom the galaxy. The Reapers did. The Star Child did. 

So when Shepard shoots the Star Child and rejects its logic, the blame for dooming the galaxy does not lie with Shepard. The fault lies squarely with the Reapers and the Star Child - because they're the ones committing the acts of mass-murder based on stupid logic.

Synthesis is the most abhorrent ending, despite all the love Bioware showers on it. Again, if you've read my previous threads, you'll understand that Synthesis is really nothing more than forcing every black man to undergo surgery to become a white man in the name of conformity. It's stupid and offensive.

Destroy potentially forces you to commit genocide of an entire allied race. Again, that's stupid and abhorrent.
 
Control is shockingly the best option from a utilitarian perspective - all the "good guys" live, the Reapers are enslaved and forced to help the people they were once slaughtering, and Shep apparently continue to live on as some kind of God. However, it still has dangerous undertones - it's the option preferred by TIM after all.

I agree with most of your opening post, especially these segments in particular, as I wanted to make new threads to state the same thing.  After downloading the EC, my first choice was the reject, and after watching Shepard's defiant last words, that was it.  The end.  In the end I was just shaking my head in disbelief.  Second try was control, just for fun.  Destroy was my true option before the cut was released, as I played a Renegade shep, but to my surprise, Control was actually the perfect ending.  I have to give credit to Bioware for that little 5 second scene of the reapers rebuilding the galaxy.....  and of course the whole narration...  it was a nod to the fans.  Control ending fans got their wet dream.

Thus, Reject actually presents itself not only as a sane option, but it is also the most morally upright option. It is a declaration that you do not compromise on the universal values that we cherish - which is respect for diversity, the freedom to choose, and the belief that we are stronger by working willingly together instead of singing kumbaya arbitrarily because we all have glowing green eyes now.

See, I don't understand why Shepard doesn't tell the Star Child to STOP.  Your solution doesn't work, you already admitted it.  Stop the atrocities, instead of forcing Shepard to choose.  Why do I feel like I lost the friggin game ?  The reason why the Star Child sounded so arrogant was because he held all the cards.  His reaper forces were tearing the Alliance a new one, and will eventually destroy the Crucible.  When in turn, the player had completed THREE full games and completed every objective that was required of us.

We.  Beat.  The.  Game.


If I was Shepard I would have walked over to either of the destroy or control consoles, and just threatened the little boy like my Renegade Shepard has done through my countless hours of gameplay.  End the reapers, or I end you, you snot nosed little brat.

[Pockydon]

cogsandcurls wrote...

Certainly the one in which my Shep felt most in-character. It's only the relatively short length/sparse nature that makes me even glance at the other options (and even then only Destroy).

Crank it up to twelve minutes like the other endings, get Shep to radio Hackett and tell him the Crucible is a no-go instead of standing there, show the galaxy coming together and fighting to the death in a blaze of glory, hell, show how things like the Genophage would have changed the playing field a little as the years of the war of attrition waged on (hoardes of new Krogan!). SHOW the next cycle bringing them down instead of telling us. Then you've got my Forever Ending. Never let it be said I don't love bittersweet.

This^

I want bioware to release a Refusal add on, in which we see exactly what you have just described. That would be an amazing ending, and would pretty much fix most of my problems.

[Zine2]

3rd-apex wrote...

to the original poster: You make the assumption that the reapers can be beat by EMS. Guess what, the Reapers can NOT be beaten conventionally. I think that is pretty clear throughout all of ME1 and 3.

Actually, if you'd read the OP what makes the Reject ending unique (and in my not so humble opinion, the best ending) is the fact that you don't win.

It is easy to make a story where the hero wins in the end, gets the girl, and save the galaxy. Synthesis and Control are arguably rainbow and sunshine endings. Destroy isn't, but completely glosses over Geth genocide.

Reject - and Reject alone - is the story of how you face defeat.

[Zine2]

CaliGuy033 wrote...

Reject is a terrible ending in which Shepard's arrogance and stubbornness causes everyone in his cycle to die when he could have saved many (or all) of them.

Hindsight is always cited by those who ignore the fact that there was no reason to trust the Catalyst.

I love that the OP called this a "hard truths" thread. classic sign of a weak or unsupportable opinion.

Oh, look at the poor sob who doesn't want to confront that the other three endings are basically rainbows and sunshine stupidity that they keep railing against.

[Cant Planet]

IanPolaris wrote...

Indeed, if you listen to a Rene-Shep after control, it seems that he (or she in my case) is very likely to go rogue and do exactly that.  With a Rene-Shep Control "Sheaper" the Reapers rule the galaxy with an iron fist.

All other potential differences of opinion notwithstanding, I have to say that "Sheaper" is my new favorite word.

[Captain Arty]

This is going to be my last post regarding this game. I didn't even know the EC DLC was out until a friend told me. That's how ineffectual the original "artistic emo" ending was. It was so groundbreaking it made me not care about the series I was once a huge fan of.

I haven't downloaded the EC DLC, and I won't. I watched them on YouTube, confirmed that they didn't satisfy much, that they were haphazardly thrown together in a way most high school A/V clubs could have done, and that they still didn't address the massive swap of protagonist and antagonist by way of starbrat.

The original endings are now made worse, since the original plot holes have new ones piled on. There are now technical contradictions between the point the original endings left us and where the extended material comes in.

When I watched the Refuse ending, I felt like BioWare was flipping the fans the bird. They were telling us to go scratch. What's odd about this is that the Refuse ending is the only option in which the player remains the protagonist. In treating it the way they did while trying to make it a "go eff yourselves" message to the fans, they effectively aligned themselves with the demonstrably false starbrat logic.

So, as many of us feared, the new ending does little to address the real complaints while introducing new plot and theme problems.

This has been a fun gamer community to be a part of, but this ending mess is such a ridiculous failure I simply have no desire to even fire up my copy of the game again, let alone spend more time on these forums in the hope of finding satisfaction from a company that clearly thinks it knows best what its fans want or deserve.

[Bigdoser]

Captain Arty wrote...

This is going to be my last post regarding this game. I didn't even know the EC DLC was out until a friend told me. That's how ineffectual the original "artistic emo" ending was. It was so groundbreaking it made me not care about the series I was once a huge fan of.

I haven't downloaded the EC DLC, and I won't. I watched them on YouTube, confirmed that they didn't satisfy much, that they were haphazardly thrown together in a way most high school A/V clubs could have done, and that they still didn't address the massive swap of protagonist and antagonist by way of starbrat.

The original endings are now made worse, since the original plot holes have new ones piled on. There are now technical contradictions between the point the original endings left us and where the extended material comes in.

When I watched the Refuse ending, I felt like BioWare was flipping the fans the bird. They were telling us to go scratch. What's odd about this is that the Refuse ending is the only option in which the player remains the protagonist. In treating it the way they did while trying to make it a "go eff yourselves" message to the fans, they effectively aligned themselves with the demonstrably false starbrat logic.

So, as many of us feared, the new ending does little to address the real complaints while introducing new plot and theme problems.

This has been a fun gamer community to be a part of, but this ending mess is such a ridiculous failure I simply have no desire to even fire up my copy of the game again, let alone spend more time on these forums in the hope of finding satisfaction from a company that clearly thinks it knows best what its fans want or deserve.

Yup same here hence why I am packing my bags and heading to the bethesda forums. 

[OmegaSpartan91]

i think destroy is better, but reject is "what must be done"

[nitefyre410]

karatemanchan37 wrote...

Mizukage77 wrote...

If you look at the outcomes , Reject is the worst ending possible. You loose everything and you let the reapers continue for a least 50 000 years.

And also, ever heard the expression " don't shoot the messanger?" , cause people seems to think the catalyst is the one reponsible for the crucible options , he isn't , he just explain to you what the crucible is capable of , he didn't build it , the crucible was meant for dealing with the reapers, so using it ,is not  doing the catalyst bidding .

To sum up the outcomes:

                         Your Cycle     Catalyst/Reapers
Control            Win                 Loss              
Synthethis      Win                  Win
Destroy           Win                  Loss
Reject             Loss                Win or Loss ( the next cycle might choose synthethis for all we know).

Choosing between using the crucible or rejecting it , is not about morality, it's about rationality , any rational individual will not choose an option where he looses.

The illusive man was right after all .... AND SO WAS KAI LENG " IF YOU CAN'T MAKE THE HARD CHOICES  STEP ASIDE FOR THOSE WHO CAN!":devil:

Just a question how is Control a "Loss" for the Reapers? There's no indication that Shepard won't go rogue in the future and just starts the cycle all over again in brand new galaxies...

 

Its a loss because everything that Reapers were is overridden when Shepards becomes the new  Catalyst. 

".Through his death I was created. Through my birth his thoughts were freed.   They guide me now, give me reason, direction. "   Our Shepards  will memories, logic and desire become the driving force. 

Everything that the Reapers were is overriden and gone. 


If or whether Shepards/Catalyst goes rouge  open to interpation depending of players paragon/renegade score which affects the wording of the monologue. 

Like Ian said the Renegade Shepard verison of control is very tyrannical but the Paragon  rather different. 

Modifié par nitefyre410, 28 juin 2012 - 03:46 .

[Aaleel]

Doesn't the next cycle use the Crucible if you choose reject?

If that's the case Shepard let everyone die in his/her cycle and the next cycle just turned around and made the choice Shepard refused to and ended the cycle 50,000 later than it should have ended.

[Bigdoser]

Aaleel wrote...

Doesn't the next cycle use the Crucible if you choose reject?

If that's the case Shepard let everyone die in his/her cycle and the next cycle just turned around and made the choice Shepard refused to and ended the cycle 50,000 later than it should have ended.

Thats what people are annoyed about and what they consider the middle finger. 

[Zine2]

Based on the dialogue ingame, not really. Based on Gamble tweeting, yes. Which is why again I said Bioware tried to spite this ending.

[MrMcDoll]

Refuse ending should have been handled the way it was in STALKER.
You refuse to believe the wish-granter is legit, you investigate and find C-consciousness and then refuse to join that.
There is additional gameplay where you mess up the whole thing and then gap it.

They should have made it so that in ME3 you refuse the kid, then since you know the citidel controls the reapers, you blow it the hell up and have the fleets all maim the suitably stunned and confused reapers.

ah well.