332 réponses à ce sujet

[Zine2]

Sajuro wrote...

Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask them if honor matters... their silence will be your answer.

And again, that's a dumb question. 

The real question must be asked to the Reapers: Why are you killing us?

Choosing to face death with honor is not the problem. The Reapers deciding to make everyone face death is. All you're showing is your complete inability to properly assign blame.

[ed87]

I thought it was pretty good. Just too short.

[Veneke]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Veneke wrote...
While there's no direct proof that they found the capsule, the different stargazer scene makes it quite clear that they were aware of the previous cycle's efforts and that this is what enabled them to win against the Reapers. How they won is left vague which is a cop-out by any standards.

Best case scenario is aliens (e.g. the yahg) find the capsule, build the Crucible and use it to defeat the Reapers. Same choices, just 50,000 years later.

How is one of the three choices we can pick now the best case scenario? The best case scenario is that the next cycle destroys the Reapers conventionally. No compromise with your enemies, no sacrifice of allies, no becoming the thing you hate - that's what the Reject ending should have definitively been about.

I will admit though that right now its more vague that Synthesis was first time round.

Modifié par Veneke, 27 juin 2012 - 08:48 .

[justlogme]

Agreed OP, one needs to face their problems and fight them (is this case the star child) not become its slave. I mean the star child is the master of the reapers commanding them to destroy all you know and love, why would you bow to its will and do what it wants?
   SO yes its funny we get to laugh at Cassey and Walters pathetic ego trip attempt to spite the ME3 players and bioware fans that didn't like their original "artistry".

[Ageless Face]

No thank you. If there is a choice that will avoide death, no matter who's responsible for the death in the first place, I will take it. I will not let all the civilizations die because of my pride, neither will my Shepard. Rejection will get you nowhere. You might not agree to the catalyst's choices, but you are basically allowing the war to continue, for the reapers to harvest. How many cycles will it take until there will come another person like Shepard?

I will not choose to abandon everything and everyone just for the sake of Shepard continue to reject. Nothing will be gained from this besides a satisfaction for a minute or two to tell the catalyst to shove it. Aside from that? Nothing.

Modifié par HagarIshay, 27 juin 2012 - 08:50 .

[prog_bassist]

"...the archives tell the true story of those who came before us. They fought a terrible war, so we wouldn't have to."

"And that's why we have peace?"

"Yes. Without everything they accomplished, without the information they passed down, we too would be threatened."

[Duncaaaaaan]

No it isn't, the galaxy just gets doomed once again because Shepard is being selfish.

[prog_bassist]

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

No it isn't, the galaxy just gets doomed once again because Shepard is being selfish.

"...the archives tell the true story of those who came before us. They fought a terrible war, so we wouldn't have to."

"And that's why we have peace?"

"Yes. Without everything they accomplished, without the information they passed down, we too would be threatened." 

[MDT1]

Zine2 wrote...

First of all, standard disclaimer. This is a "hard truths" thread.

Bioware made an incredibly bad first attempt at making an ME3 ending. They then lied about "not changing" the ending. They in fact added a 4th ending that a lot of people asked for - which is to reject the Star Child entirely.

Well, people got their wish. There is now a "Reject" option. However, Bioware chose to spite the ending by having the galaxy get annihilated by the Reapers (regardless of EMS score), and that a later civilization will break the cycle (implying they chose Red, Blue, or Green). It's little wonder that people are making fun of the line "SO BE IT" as something that was said by Mac Walters or Casey Hudson as a final insult to the people who hated their "creative vision", because it really does come off us nothing more than childish, petty spite by a pair of privelaged self-important "artists" who tried to peddle their crap as ground-breaking art.

Actually I saw the "so be it" as letting the starchild finally drop his mask and showing what it realy is, the reapers. This just sealed it for me that ignoring his sweettalk is a most valid and reasonable outcome. Also my canon Shep refuses to blindly believe that the starchild had any good intentions and was confirmed through this in the end.

Modifié par MDT1, 27 juin 2012 - 08:52 .

[Zine2]

Astartes Marine wrote...

Sure the Catalyst/Reapers may have started the conflict but when presented with an opportunity to end the threat once and for all you think the best ending is to do nothing and let everyone else die at the hands of said Reapers?

Life does not always have a happy ending.

Moreover, the question of whether morality is sufficient cause to sacrifice life is one of the central tenets of our existence. Should we be willing to give our lives for our principles? Should people be willing to sacrifice themselves for the sake of others? Should you be willing to sacrifice some to save the rest?

The reject ending is not the utilitarian choice (Greater Good - most people live). But it is the moral choice.

Attempting to make it "immoral" by saying "But you killed millions by doing nothing!" is a false statement, because again you're not the one killing millions. It's the Reapers.

[Sajuro]

Zine2 wrote...

Sajuro wrote...

Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask them if honor matters... their silence will be your answer.

And again, that's a dumb question. 

The real question must be asked to the Reapers: Why are you killing us?

Choosing to face death with honor is not the problem. The Reapers deciding to make everyone face death is. All you're showing is your complete inability to properly assign blame.

It isn't about facing death with honor, but if Shepard wants to beat the Reapers he has to be prepared to sacrifice everything, and after he says "I'm not going to decide to make everyone a hybrid that's wrong!" then he says "lol I give up" deciding for everyone that he'd rather kill everyone than kill the Geth and Edi.

[Miles_E]

Eterna5 wrote...

Both reject and destroy are ultimately selfish and short sighted options.

Yes, because choosing to become essentially a god or forcing a huge leap of evolution on every lifeform in the galaxy is completely unselfish and totally won't have unforseen consequences...

If I may, I suggest Reject is the closest thing to a "paragon" ending, as it seems very similar to ME2's final choice of destroying or keeping the collector base and Shepard saying he won't  "sacrifice the soul of the species" just to win. Reject and Destroy are my personal favorites and the only two somewhat tolerable endings.

[Zine2]

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

No it isn't, the galaxy just gets doomed once again because Shepard is being selfish.

The galaxy was doomed by the Reapers. Again, just more complete inability to properly assign blame.

That it's up to Shep to make the decision is also the Reaper's fault. The Star Kid decided to make Shep make the choice for everyone instead of being a reasonable sentient being and getting everyone to talk like adults.

Modifié par Zine2, 27 juin 2012 - 08:53 .

[Youmu]

justlogme wrote...

Agreed OP, one needs to face their problems and fight them (is this case the star child) not become its slave. I mean the star child is the master of the reapers commanding them to destroy all you know and love, why would you bow to its will and do what it wants?

But the next cycle bows. 

Shepard not bowing just leads massive amounts of death without changing the outcome from the RGB choices Shepard could have picked in the first place. All Shepard does in Reject is make the next cycle choose instead.

[Zine2]

Sajuro wrote...

It isn't about facing death with honor, but if Shepard wants to beat the Reapers he has to be prepared to sacrifice everything

As others have said "I will not sacrifice the soul of this species".

This is not the utilitarian choice. This is not the "most people get to live!" choice. It's the moral choice. It's about how you choose to face the end - by betraying the values you hold dear, or by simply going into the night knowing you did not compromise.

[Isaidlunch]

It certainly feels like they're trying to make Reject as unappealing as possible. It was fine before with the implication that the next cycle doesn't use the Crucible, making it so that Yahg/Raloi/mutant rat Shepard uses the Crucible anyway is totally unnecessary.

Modifié par Kazanth, 27 juin 2012 - 08:58 .

[prog_bassist]

Youmu wrote...

justlogme wrote...

Agreed OP, one needs to face their problems and fight them (is this case the star child) not become its slave. I mean the star child is the master of the reapers commanding them to destroy all you know and love, why would you bow to its will and do what it wants?

But the next cycle bows. 

Shepard not bowing just leads massive amounts of death without changing the outcome from the RGB choices Shepard could have picked in the first place. All Shepard does in Reject is make the next cycle choose instead.

It is not known how the next cycle defeated the Reapers, so you can't make that assumption.

[Zine2]

Youmu wrote...

justlogme wrote...

Agreed OP, one needs to face their problems and fight them (is this case the star child) not become its slave. I mean the star child is the master of the reapers commanding them to destroy all you know and love, why would you bow to its will and do what it wants?

But the next cycle bows. 

Shepard not bowing just leads massive amounts of death without changing the outcome from the RGB choices Shepard could have picked in the first place. All Shepard does in Reject is make the next cycle choose instead.

And like I said, it matters not. That's their story. Their values.

If they believe in utilitarianism over uncompromising values and belief in diversity and freedom, that's their choice to make.

What's important is how we choose to face the end. That's why the Reject ending remains great despite the attempts to spite it.

[justlogme]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Zine2 wrote...

LookingGlass93 wrote...
In the reject ending everyone dies and the Reapers win. If Shepard chooses anything else the Reapers lose and the galaxy is saved.


The reject ending is the loser ending.

Heroism is often not about how you win, but how you face defeat.

That you cannot fathom this exceedingly simple maxim only demonstrates the stupid, childish spite that permeates all of the people who defend the original ending.

1) The original endings sucked, but I am happy with the EC.

2) It doesn't matter if Shepard dies like a hero or not, because his/her mission to stop the Reapers and save the galaxy is a failure.

   Aren't all the missions were you cave and become the star childs tool a failure as well? After all he's the one destroying everyone and you just decide to go along and do his bidding?

   Seriosuly everyone and everything dies. Sometimes its not about the fact you will die, but about what you do with the life you have. By doing the will of the evilest being in the galaxy (the star child) have you really won or just delayed death. (in the case of synthesis not even delayed the doom of all living races as they are turned into unliving reaperspawn)

Modifié par justlogme, 27 juin 2012 - 09:02 .

[MDT1]

Youmu wrote...

justlogme wrote...

Agreed OP, one needs to face their problems and fight them (is this case the star child) not become its slave. I mean the star child is the master of the reapers commanding them to destroy all you know and love, why would you bow to its will and do what it wants?

But the next cycle bows. 

Shepard not bowing just leads massive amounts of death without changing the outcome from the RGB choices Shepard could have picked in the first place. All Shepard does in Reject is make the next cycle choose instead.

The next cycle doesn't bow, he perfects the crucible and docks it on the citadell before the reapers even know whats happening. The organics end the cycle on their terms.

justlogme wrote...

   Seriosuly everyone and everything dies. Sometimes its not about the fact you will die, but about what you do with the life you have. By doing the will of the evilest being in the galaxy (the star child) have you really won or just delayed death. (in the case of synthesis not even delayed the doom of all living races as they are turned unliving into reaperspawn)

 

QFT

Modifié par MDT1, 27 juin 2012 - 09:02 .

[templar_117]

Duncaaaaaan wrote...

No it isn't, the galaxy just gets doomed once again because Shepard is being selfish.

He is selfish because he wont make a huge (and excluding destroy, pretty stupid) decision on behalf of the entire galaxy?

Oh you.

[Astartes Marine]

Zine2 wrote...
Life does not always have a happy ending.

I never expect it to.  Hell my favorite stories have been in the grimdark Warhammer 40,000 universe.

Zine2 wrote...
Moreover,
the question of whether morality is sufficient cause to sacrifice life
is one of the central tenets of our existence. Should we be willing to
give our lives for our principles? Should people be willing to sacrifice
themselves for the sake of others? Should you be willing to sacrifice
some to save the rest?

Are you willing to just sit back like a pathetic little coward and watch everyone die?  Entire species?  All of this knowing that you could have stopped it?  And you still think it's the better ending? 

Having the chance to act and save many, and instead doing nothing...your character would better serve on the business end of a firing line or in a meat shield penal battalion.

Zine2 wrote...
The reject ending is not the utilitarian choice (Greater Good - most people live). But it is the moral choice.

The moral choice to say screw it and allow millions to die?  Some morals. 

Zine2 wrote...
Attempting
to make it "immoral" by saying "But you killed millions by doing
nothing!" is a false statement, because again you're not the one killing
millions. It's the Reapers.

I made NO mention of "you" killing millions, just that had a chance to SAVE millions if not billions, yet you think it's better to give in to cowardice and do nothing, just sitting back and watching everyone die. 

[Dusen]

HagarIshay wrote...

No thank you. If there is a choice that will avoide death, no matter who's responsible for the death in the first place, I will take it. I will not let all the civilizations die because of my pride, neither will my Shepard. Rejection will get you nowhere. You might not agree to the catalyst's choices, but you are basically allowing the war to continue, for the reapers to harvest. How many cycles will it take until there will come another person like Shepard?

I will not choose to abandon everything and everyone just for the sake of Shepard continue to reject. Nothing will be gained from this besides a satisfaction for a minute or two to tell the catalyst to shove it. Aside from that? Nothing.

What's the point in living if you have to forsake everything that defined that life and made it special?

EDIT: It's a lot like making a deal with the devil in exchange for one's life. The cost outweighs the benefits in this case.

Modifié par Dusen, 27 juin 2012 - 09:08 .

[RainbowDazed]

Copied/pasted my post from another thread:

The reject ending will be the canonical ending for my reckless-ruthless renegade Shepard who either takes all or nothing! It fits her character well. Since she as a character does not know what results from the other choices, she has no reason to believe the blabberings of the god-child. Thus she'd tell him to **** off.

Only thing that bothered me was Liara's whiny "we failed" recording though it did fit her character. We didn't fail, we finished the crucible, stored the information for future cycles and showed the catalyst that we don't do deals with lying reaper-****es.

The stargazer scene at the end was a nice touch. Shepard truly is a legend - the one who shoved all organics that extinction is a better choice than making deals with the Old Machines. And because of that choice the future cycles triumphed.

Hail ruthless Shepard! \\,,/

[Sirsmirkalot]

I like reject personally. I also never imagined anything else happening when we'd decide to duke it out without the catalyst. It was said again and again that we were unable to win conventionally.

At least there was a positive ring to it, our struggles laid the path for the next cycle to successfully overcome the reapers.