165 réponses à ce sujet

[Dex1701]

I think his character is just fine. He's a smart-ass, so he makes bad jokes and complains. I know plenty of people like that IRL.

[sofly]

boardnfool86 wrote...

I have read a lot about Alistair and it seems he is a very popular character... I for one find him obnoxious and frequently want to punch him in the face. We are facing a blight and he whines like a 12 year old girl about pretty much every trivial thing. Did my pooch snap at you when you went for his food? Whine some more bro.

What is that saying about glass houses?

Anyhow, all jokes aside, I don't think he's too much of a baby. He's a bit eccentric, yeah. But, he's also a Grey Warden who survived the joining from a bloodline that commands respect. The Landsmeet outed him as a bit too passionate for my tastes, but regardless of what some may think about it, he has a pretty substantial reason for being so worked up.

[Tweekle]

Do this, Do that!

[JaegerBane]

I think people have started suffering from the Carth Onasi syndrome.

I.e., if a character isn't running around cackling like loony, waving his penis around with a necklace of fresh babies' ears wrapped around their neck, then they must be stupid/whiny/idiot.

I liked the guy. He reacted consistently to what was going on, he handled the deaths of his friends well enough, and he was consistently my choice tank for going into combat.

I vastly preferred to him to several others. I mean, want to talk about how whiny characters? Well, we have Morrigan, the single worst source of advice in all of Thedas ('What?! You mean you're going to help someone who you need as an ally? You'd be far better off just killing everyone and then realising you've failed your mission'). We have Sten, with his amazing inability to look further than 6 foot in front of him (' I don't care that we need to find this urn to cure the facilitator of the landsmeet - I want kill Darkspawn!').

Or how about Loghain, the resident paranoid delusional who's so spineless he doesn't even have the stones to straighten out his lackies?

Bah. Alistair was great.

[sofly]

JaegerBane wrote...

I think people have started suffering from the Carth Onasi syndrome.

I.e., if a character isn't running around cackling like loony, waving his penis around with a necklace of fresh babies' ears wrapped around their neck, then they must be stupid/whiny/idiot.

I liked the guy. He reacted consistently to what was going on, he handled the deaths of his friends well enough, and he was consistently my choice tank for going into combat.

I vastly preferred to him to several others. I mean, want to talk about how whiny characters? Well, we have Morrigan, the single worst source of advice in all of Thedas ('What?! You mean you're going to help someone who you need as an ally? You'd be far better off just killing everyone and then realising you've failed your mission'). We have Sten, with his amazing inability to look further than 6 foot in front of him (' I don't care that we need to find this urn to cure the facilitator of the landsmeet - I want kill Darkspawn!').

Or how about Loghain, the resident paranoid delusional who's so spineless he doesn't even have the stones to straighten out his lackies?

Bah. Alistair was great.

/High-5

[Inakhia]

 Alistairs still my favourite character, tho Oghrens coming a close second. I've had the most interaction with his char out of all of them so far and I think I've seen most of his lines. Not excusing his whininess, but explaining it and his decisions later on.
If you ever talk to him enough to find out about his past there's enough there to hint at the fact he had a less than ideal childhood with possibly enough emotional neglect to leave him with his rather large Insecurity issue.
If you survive Ostagar (duh) and talk to him after, he's *very* relieved your alive. I think a case could be made that hes suffering from PTS, he also seems to have a few father figure issues and abandonment issues. And probably since Ostagar all major case of survivors guilt on top of that.
And to the people complaining that our favourite White Knight wannabe of a Grey Warden has issues with their decisions ie. ones involved killing people he consider's family or innocents....well DUH!!

Modifié par Inakhia, 15 décembre 2009 - 12:51 .

[Ninomir]

Well i like him, first of all cuz he's there from the start, u 2 go thrue the Tower and he is a loyal friend who whould never attack u cuz of the decidions u make thrue the game where some other other party members whould. Alistar just seems like a better tank. Morrigan i very much dislike she just isnt honoest, and been playing u since the start. While Stan i respect, he's "rude" and the way he is cuz that what Quriani are like he dosnt know any other way, while if u get him to the Quest he becomes vary nice to u....
sorry about that removed the spoilers

Modifié par Ninomir, 15 décembre 2009 - 12:59 .

[Polluxor]

I like him just because he is funny.



But more importantly, this thread should be moved to the spoilers section now.

[Odius Rex]

I think he's kinda cool. Kinda reminds me of the new kid in my frat who missed home. Just give the kid a beer and he's fine. I guess I never had a little brother so I treat Alistair that way.

"What? What your sad about something? Here's a pint for you bro, now lets try to get you laid."

Modifié par Odius Rex, 15 décembre 2009 - 01:05 .

[Solica]

sofly wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

I think people have started suffering from the Carth Onasi syndrome.

I.e., if a character isn't running around cackling like loony, waving his penis around with a necklace of fresh babies' ears wrapped around their neck, then they must be stupid/whiny/idiot.

I liked the guy. He reacted consistently to what was going on, he handled the deaths of his friends well enough, and he was consistently my choice tank for going into combat.

I vastly preferred to him to several others. I mean, want to talk about how whiny characters? Well, we have Morrigan, the single worst source of advice in all of Thedas ('What?! You mean you're going to help someone who you need as an ally? You'd be far better off just killing everyone and then realising you've failed your mission'). We have Sten, with his amazing inability to look further than 6 foot in front of him (' I don't care that we need to find this urn to cure the facilitator of the landsmeet - I want kill Darkspawn!').

Or how about Loghain, the resident paranoid delusional who's so spineless he doesn't even have the stones to straighten out his lackies?

Bah. Alistair was great.

/High-5

Indeed.

[Medhia Nox]

Alistair asks me to lead.. then whines at me when I don't make choices he likes. He abandons Duncan's mission when I make a choice to use a resource instead of giving in to his hatred. I don't begrudge him his hatred.. but he's a deserter.. and belongs in a nice cage next to the one in the Ostagar camp.. I'll even convince his guard to feed him.



He's the worst type of person. ((This has nothing to do with characterization.. I found all the characters beautifully written and believable.))



Lead, Follow, or get out of my way Alistair.

[Squiggles1334]

I would be pretty bored if every recruitable NPC in the game was a stone-cold badass tough guy with a witty cynical quip ready for every situation. Alistair, for all his faults and shortcomings, adds some greatly needed diversity to my crew to help bring it up to an acceptable level of motley quotient.

[syllogi]

Medhia Nox wrote...
He's the worst type of person. ((This has nothing to do with characterization.. I found all the characters beautifully written and believable.))
 

So Loghain, the man who betrayed his king, poisoned Arl Eamon, sold citizens into slavery, put a bounty on the heads of ALL Grey Wardens in Ferelden, and allowed Howe to murder an entire noble family, *that* guy isn't the WORST kind of person???   And...Alistair is, because he doesn't experience the bizarre cognitive dissonance your character must, in order to choose to bring Loghain into your party???

I can't even bother to try to understand Loghain apologists anymore.  At least admit your character is a massive jerk or evil.  Trying to rationalize it as the "good" choice is ridiculous.

[DariusKalera]

Inakhia wrote...

 Alistairs still my favourite character, tho Oghrens coming a close second. I've had the most interaction with his char out of all of them so far and I think I've seen most of his lines. Not excusing his whininess, but explaining it and his decisions later on.
If you ever talk to him enough to find out about his past there's enough there to hint at the fact he had a less than ideal childhood with possibly enough emotional neglect to leave him with his rather large Insecurity issue.
If you survive Ostagar (duh) and talk to him after, he's *very* relieved your alive. I think a case could be made that hes suffering from PTS, he also seems to have a few father figure issues and abandonment issues. And probably since Ostagar all major case of survivors guilt on top of that.
And to the people complaining that our favourite White Knight wannabe of a Grey Warden has issues with their decisions ie. ones involved killing people he consider's family or innocents....well DUH!!

Its not that he has issues with it, its how he brings it up.  He throws a tantrum back in camp afterwards. 

My first play through I killed Isolde because I did not want to kill the child.  I did not know at the time that you could leave, do the mage's tower, come back, and not have any bad repercussions. 

Afterwards he comes up and whines about the decision saying that there must have been another way.  Well, it was either Option A, kill the mom, or Option B, kill the kid, there was no Option C.  

He gave up all rights in questioning the hard decisions when he decided he was not willing to make them himself.

TeenZombie wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...
He's
the worst type of person. ((This has nothing to do with
characterization.. I found all the characters beautifully written and
believable.))
 

So Loghain, the man who betrayed
his king, poisoned Arl Eamon, sold citizens into slavery, put a bounty
on the heads of ALL Grey Wardens in Ferelden, and allowed Howe to
murder an entire noble family, *that* guy isn't the WORST kind of
person???   And...Alistair is, because he doesn't experience the
bizarre cognitive dissonance your character must, in order to choose to
bring Loghain into your party???

I can't even bother to try to
understand Loghain apologists anymore.  At least admit your character
is a massive jerk or evil.  Trying to rationalize it as the "good"
choice is ridiculous.

Loghain was evil, no doubt about it.  But atleast he took responsibility for the decisions he made. 

That, to me, puts him a few pegs above Alistair.

Modifié par DariusKalera, 15 décembre 2009 - 02:42 .

[InvaderErl]

I like Alistair but like all the companions he suffers from serious flaws and personality defects. Specifically we see this in the Loghain situation of course.

Now as a disclaimer this is not to say that he was wrong for resisting the idea because honestly letting Loghain live after everything he put us through was asking a lot.

But that rather than give up his lust for revenge he would rather abandon you shows just how out of touch he gets with reality when his emotions get the better of him. He basically throws everything he ever said was important to him out the window of spite, there is no way that Duncan would ever be able to look him in the eye leaving like that just when he was needed most.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 15 décembre 2009 - 02:49 .

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Better a whiner than a traitorous former war hero who got his best friend and former lover's son killed, along with about half his country's forces.



I never found Alistair "whiny". If anything, Morrigan strikes me as a bigger complainer and whiner, seeing how unless you kick puppies in the face or set little old ladies on fire, she throws a fit and starts going nails-on-chalkboard ****y on you. Even descisions that aren't "good" aligned, more pragmatic, she still moans. Incessantly. THAT I find irritating. When someone just ****es and screams for no other purpose than simply to disagree and belittle you for the sake of soing so, that's irritating. After a while, I just dumped her in camp and took someone else. Even Sten was tolerable, as generally, his disagreements were simple and blunt, and he had the balls to actually challenge you once.



Alistair's "complaining" was usually dosed with too much sarcasm and humor to really take seriously. Most of the time, he was blowing off steam and frustration. And you can always tell him to shut up, and by golly, unlike Morrigan, he actually listens.

[InvaderErl]

It seems a lot of people are attacking Morrigan to defend Alistair...



Alistair is not really whiny, I've only had him whine in situations where I understood why he was whining but he is clearly a big jumbled up mess of neurotic behavior.

[SarEnyaDor]

Is this the wrong forum for saying if loving a tool is wrong I don't want to be right?



I think there is a difference between whining and expressing emotion about emotional things, like the slaughter of everyone you know.



And besides that he is awesome! Have you seen his shield bash and assault? Come on! I could watch him decapitate things with Duncan's shield all day.

[syllogi]

DariusKalera wrote...

Its not that he has issues with it, its how he brings it up.  He throws a tantrum back in camp afterwards. 

My first play through I killed Isolde because I did not want to kill the child.  I did not know at the time that you could leave, do the mage's tower, come back, and not have any bad repercussions. 

Afterwards he comes up and whines about the decision saying that there must have been another way.  Well, it was either Option A, kill the mom, or Option B, kill the kid, there was no Option C.  

He gave up all rights in questioning the hard decisions when he decided he was not willing to make them himself.

I totally understand this sentiment, but therein lies the problem with having a character like Alistair, who *ought* to be a leader, but isn't, because he is not the Hero of the game.  Your PC is, and so the writers have to try to balance giving the player a fulfilling game experience and creating fully developed characters.

Loghain was evil, no doubt about it.  But atleast he took responsibility for the decisions he made. 

That, to me, puts him a few pegs above Alistair.

I did not see one second of remorse or responsibility from Loghain until after the duel.  There is NO logical reason, unless you are metagaming, to trust this man.  He is a traitor, a poisoner, a slaver, an instigator of blood mages, a killer of Grey Wardens.  Why would a rational person EVER give him a sword again, after he has been thoroughly defeated???  Riordan may have a good reason, but the PC and Alistair do not, at that point. 

Nothing I've seen in the game would ever lead me to trust Loghain.  And to blame Alistair for having the presence of mind that even a child would have when dealing with an enemy, again, is patently and utterly ridiculous.

[OpDDay2001]

I've never really played with Alistair in my party much (just the parts I had to/it made sense to), but he seems likable enough. His responses are never so entirely outlandish as to be unrealistic. He may get a bit pissed off/antsy at some of the choices I make but he's hardly the worst.



I don't get why people say Morrigan is whiny. She complains a bit sometimes, but no more than anyone else. She's actually, to me, the most likable character so far (which is odd considering how mean she can be, but to me I think it's because she seems the most human). Wynne is also a bit whiny, but she's kind of the doting mother figure of the group. Ogrhen is just a horny drunk bastard. Shale... well Shale has major major issues and complains anytime you aren't stomping on the heads of your enemies (or at least it seemed that way when I had her in my party). Sten and, to a certain extent, Zevran are the two characters I got the least amount of dialogue out of because I hardly played with them. Sten killed 8 people including children, as much as I want to believe there is a way to rationalize that, since he is Quinari, the stigma of having him in my party sort of stuck from Lothering. Oddly enough though, it is thanks to Sten that I was able to beat the High Dragon. Anyway I got off point. >.>



All the characters have their flaws, but they'll openly admit to those flaws at some point in their dialogue. Morrigan acknowledges she's a cold heartless ****. Zevran acknowledges he's an opportunist. Sten acknowledges that he's murder, and an outside. The only character that is "perfect" is the Dog. I mean it's hard to hate someone that brings you free cake, and some of the most amusing bits of dialogue in the game come from character interactions with your dog. Heck, some of the Dog's interactions with Morrigan are hilarious and then if you have him in your party when you enter Denerim he finds a lost kid and basically "asks" to keep him. It's funny in a role-reversal sort of way.

[InvaderErl]

I pretty much agree. All the characters in this game are likeable. Its sort of like people hating Baltar in BSG because he's a jerk and he accidentally got the human race almost wiped out, even though he's actually one of the most likeable characters on the show. Morrigan reminds me of Baltar in a lot of ways.

Though I will say Wynne definitely started to get on my nerves. She keeps throwing lesson after lesson on you. Oh, now I can't have sex with somebody because I'm a freaking Grey Warden? Listen lady, this job isn't complicated. Kill Darkspawn, Kill Archdemon, Recruit people in the meantime. End of job, I don't need to frakking hear morality plays.

So to tie it back to Alistair. He's not any worse than anyone else. You have quite the band of misfits with you.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 15 décembre 2009 - 04:11 .

[Null]

I agree completely, all the characters in this game are likeable, no one really grated on my nerves at all, and some of the characters I hated was because I loved to hate them (I'm looking at you Howe, you son of a *****).



On Alistair, so he whines every so often, so what? He reacts accordingly to whatever situation is around him, in the end however, he sticks around and sees the journey to the end, that's admirable. I find him more interesting as a best bro instead of a romance to be honest.

[DariusKalera]

TeenZombie wrote...

DariusKalera wrote...

Its not that he has issues with it, its how he brings it up.  He throws a tantrum back in camp afterwards. 

My first play through I killed Isolde because I did not want to kill the child.  I did not know at the time that you could leave, do the mage's tower, come back, and not have any bad repercussions. 

Afterwards he comes up and whines about the decision saying that there must have been another way.  Well, it was either Option A, kill the mom, or Option B, kill the kid, there was no Option C.  

He gave up all rights in questioning the hard decisions when he decided he was not willing to make them himself.

I totally understand this sentiment, but therein lies the problem with having a character like Alistair, who *ought* to be a leader, but isn't, because he is not the Hero of the game.  Your PC is, and so the writers have to try to balance giving the player a fulfilling game experience and creating fully developed characters.

Loghain was evil, no doubt about it.  But atleast he took responsibility for the decisions he made. 

That, to me, puts him a few pegs above Alistair.

I did not see one second of remorse or responsibility from Loghain until after the duel.  There is NO logical reason, unless you are metagaming, to trust this man.  He is a traitor, a poisoner, a slaver, an instigator of blood mages, a killer of Grey Wardens.  Why would a rational person EVER give him a sword again, after he has been thoroughly defeated???  Riordan may have a good reason, but the PC and Alistair do not, at that point. 

Nothing I've seen in the game would ever lead me to trust Loghain.  And to blame Alistair for having the presence of mind that even a child would have when dealing with an enemy, again, is patently and utterly ridiculous.

While I understand that the PC is the hero of the game, it does not mean that they could not have made Alistair more of a sounding board, for lack of a better term, to the PCs plans.   Even after I completed his personal quest and hardened him, I still found him lacking as a character, more precisely, an emotionally adult character.  I honestly see him more as a troubled teenager than as an adult.  If the writers had developed him as say a young teenager, then I could see him filling that role.  Maybe make him Duncan's squire, or shield bearer, (actually, that would probably have made a cool story concerning Duncan's shield too) or some roll where the character would have been younger than what he was portraid as.   Would also explain why he was a follower and not a leader.

After typing this though, I aslo started thinking that maybe, just maybe, one of the problems with Alistair, atleast in my eyes, is that he is supposed to be an "everyman".  For all intents and purposes he is supposed to be a leader, a follower, a comical sidekick, a serious compatriot, a lover, a hater, a drinking buddy, a conscience, and a driving force of revenge.  Basically, all of the rest of your followers rolled into one.  I think doing this spread the character of Alistair out too much.

As for Loghain, I let him live the first time I went to the Landsmeet.  I had no idea what was going to happen with Alistair, Riordan, or Loghain.  My thought processes were this. 

No one on my side had the experiance in leading armies that Loghain did.  I, as the PC, had only recently left home and only led a small group of adventureres, not an army of thousands.  Alistair, had stated that he would rather follow than lead.    Loghain, for all his faults, was still a hero to the people and a symbol that they could rally behind to fight the Blight.  No one else in the Landsmeet was held in such high regard with so many of the people of Fereldan.  He was, most certainly, more valuable alive then dead.

As for him having remorse, and taking responsibility, for his actions, you never get a chance to talk to him before defeating him in the duel.  Before that, you only see him in short cutscenes that do not really show that much.  Once you do get to talk to him you do learn he takes all responsibility for his actions, and for Howe's.  He never says that they were "good" just that he felt that they were necessary.

[Darth_Trethon]

The only reason to put Alistair on the throne is if you have a female PC to marry him and pull his strings. Anora sure doesn't need to deal with changing his diapers on top of running the country and if you put him alone on the throne you might as well leave ferelden without a king/queen because he just ignores his responsibilities anyway and we never find out who makes the real decisions.....maybe the Orlesians do.....he wouldn't know the difference.

[Null]

Darth_Trethon wrote...

The only reason to put Alistair on the throne is if you have a female PC to marry him and pull his strings. Anora sure doesn't need to deal with changing his diapers on top of running the country and if you put him alone on the throne you might as well leave ferelden without a king/queen because he just ignores his responsibilities anyway and we never find out who makes the real decisions.....maybe the Orlesians do.....he wouldn't know the difference.

If you harden his personality he makes a really good king.