165 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

I dislike Alistair the most in my party. Because of his unending attempts at humor (which show his very weak personality, see Chandler from Friends), his whining and ****ing. And his ultimate betrayal when he abandonned the Grey Wardens at the finale battle.



And yes he is a tool. My Dwarven Noble political mastermind is presicely going to use him as a tool, from which he will control Ferelden.

[Original182]

I thought Alistair was ok. But I wouldn't call him my favourite companion. I'm still deciding who that is.

[Galad22]

Medhia Nox wrote...

Alistair asks me to lead.. then whines at me when I don't make choices he likes. He abandons Duncan's mission when I make a choice to use a resource instead of giving in to his hatred. I don't begrudge him his hatred.. but he's a deserter.. and belongs in a nice cage next to the one in the Ostagar camp.. I'll even convince his guard to feed him.

He's the worst type of person. ((This has nothing to do with characterization.. I found all the characters beautifully written and believable.))

Lead, Follow, or get out of my way Alistair.

Let's see. Say someone butchered your brother, your father figure, killed your countrys president and about ten thousand best soldiers by deserting at most convenient moment, send assassins after you and called you a traitor. How would you like if some moron then desided to pardon all his crimes and force you to work beside this person?

If you could do that, actually work with him and give your live in his hands by trusting him you would be

1. Insane for actually trusting him, he is a coward and deserter
2. Didn't care that much about your family
3. You are completely fine with people pulling up coups and murdering people

So what would you do, I really think that you would do exactly like Alistair did, I for one could never work with someone that murdered my own brother, however perhaps you feel differently.

[Bagenholt]

Galad22 wrote...

Medhia Nox wrote...

Alistair asks me to lead.. then whines at me when I don't make choices he likes. He abandons Duncan's mission when I make a choice to use a resource instead of giving in to his hatred. I don't begrudge him his hatred.. but he's a deserter.. and belongs in a nice cage next to the one in the Ostagar camp.. I'll even convince his guard to feed him.

He's the worst type of person. ((This has nothing to do with characterization.. I found all the characters beautifully written and believable.))

Lead, Follow, or get out of my way Alistair.

Let's see. Say someone butchered your brother, your father figure, killed your countrys president and about ten thousand best soldiers by deserting at most convenient moment, send assassins after you and called you a traitor. How would you like if some moron then desided to pardon all his crimes and force you to work beside this person?

If you could do that, actually work with him and give your live in his hands by trusting him you would be

1. Insane for actually trusting him, he is a coward and deserter
2. Didn't care that much about your family
3. You are completely fine with people pulling up coups and murdering people

So what would you do, I really think that you would do exactly like Alistair did, I for one could never work with someone that murdered my own brother, however perhaps you feel differently.

Seriously? Considering the world as I know it could end without this man I'd live and bare with it. Keep your cunning high then what is the problem? stay one pace ahead and we can always finish the job later.

And yes, I despise Alister. Frankly, I'd curb stomp him once I'd finished with him just to ensure he didn't breed.

Modifié par Bagenholt, 15 décembre 2009 - 06:21 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Galad22 wrote...
Let's see. Say someone butchered your brother, your father figure, killed your countrys president and about ten thousand best soldiers by deserting at most convenient moment, send assassins after you and called you a traitor. How would you like if some moron then desided to pardon all his crimes and force you to work beside this person?

If you could do that, actually work with him and give your live in his hands by trusting him you would be

1. Insane for actually trusting him, he is a coward and deserter
2. Didn't care that much about your family
3. You are completely fine with people pulling up coups and murdering people

So what would you do, I really think that you would do exactly like Alistair did, I for one could never work with someone that murdered my own brother, however perhaps you feel differently.

And so you would go up against the leader that you chose to follow and against a senior Grey Warden, who stresses on the need of more numbers. And if they don't agree with you, you abandon them to the blight, essentially deserting, thus betraying the memory of those you supposedly loved?

[Galad22]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And so you would go up against the leader that you chose to follow and against a senior Grey Warden, who stresses on the need of more numbers. And if they don't agree with you, you abandon them to the blight, essentially deserting, thus betraying the memory of those you supposedly loved?

Obviously, he murdered my brother. How could you work with someone like that.

And what possible reason do you have to trust this person anyway? He has done nothing but selfish acts of desertions and regicide and murders up to that point.

[Maria Caliban]

Alistair was my PC's tool, but all of the party members might be described that way.

[InvaderErl]

Yeah. Disagreeing with them is not Alistair's failure, its leaving.

The Warden's needed him and Alistair just ups and leaves at the most crucial moment. The man is a slave to his emotions.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 15 décembre 2009 - 06:31 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Galad22 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

And so you would go up against the leader that you chose to follow and against a senior Grey Warden, who stresses on the need of more numbers. And if they don't agree with you, you abandon them to the blight, essentially deserting, thus betraying the memory of those you supposedly loved?

Obviously, he murdered my brother. How could you work with someone like that.

And what possible reason do you have to trust this person anyway? He has done nothing but selfish acts of desertions and regicide and murders up to that point.

You mean your brother who wanted nothing but to defeat the blight? And because you love your brother so much, you end up not fighting the blight and abandoning your other brothers because of principle? haha that's a laugh.

I have every reason. First, I am not an idiot like Cailan. Second, I have an entire army at my command. Third, he will become a Grey Warden, thus his old life doesn't mean anything. Third, he admits he is mistaken and he yields and also shows a determination to repent, I wouldn't deny him that. Fourth reason, he has experience and skill that are superiorto Alistair's and that would be needed for the finale battle. Fitfh reason, I am planign to be the King that would unite Ferelden. to show everyone that I have the ability to turn an enemy into an ally is a wise political choice, in addition to Loghain being a symbol of Ferelden independence. 

What reason do I have to not kill Alistair for his audacity and betrayal?
I never liked him, so he never was my friend. I am planing to be King, I don't want him threatnening my throne. And he is useless, and is replaceable. Most importantly, he committed the gravest treachery possible as a grey warden.   

[Steel Majere343]

just to clarify you do have a choice in the matter with the redcliff thing. hes right when hes saying you havnt tried hard enough. this is in the spoilers section so ill just say it.



you dont have to sacrifice or kill anyone to save the boy, if you do the mage tower first then the mages will help you rescue the boy by sending someone into the fade WITHOUT sacrificing someone.



and i think i would whine too if you just sacrificed the lady who helped raise me..lol. sort of.

same with killing the child, the arl was like alistars dad, hurting the arls family would be a major blow.



and ultimately, like i said, hes right, there is a way if you try hard enough to save everyone in that castle.



he never whines with me, but at the same time morrigan hates me because im a generous person. Sten kind of hates me, although sometimes i waste time to help others i also have a backbone and stand up to him, as well as anyone else, so..he apparently likes that. lol.

[Galad22]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

You mean your brother who wanted nothing but to defeat the blight? And because you love your brother so much, you end up not fighting the blight and abandoning your other brothers because of principle? haha that's a laugh.

I have every reason. First, I am not an idiot like Cailan. Second, I have an entire army at my command. Third, he will become a Grey Warden, thus his old life doesn't mean anything. Third, he admits he is mistaken and he yields and also shows a determination to repent, I wouldn't deny him that. Fourth reason, he has experience and skill that are superiorto Alistair's and that would be needed for the finale battle. Fitfh reason, I am planign to be the King that would unite Ferelden. to show everyone that I have the ability to turn an enemy into an ally is a wise political choice, in addition to Loghain being a symbol of Ferelden independence. 

What reason do I have to not kill Alistair for his audacity and betrayal?
I never liked him, so he never was my friend. I am planing to be King, I don't want him threatnening my throne. And he is useless, and is replaceable. Most importantly, he committed the gravest treachery possible as a grey warden.   

That's great you are better villain than Loghain even then. Everything worked just fine for you.
And when Alistair, one who has been loyal up to this point want to have his brothers murderer and traitor brought to jutice you kill him instead. That's great too. It's good thing real leader's aren't like you all that often.

You have absolutely no reason to assume Loghain wouldn't backstab you at worst possible moment, he has some experience for that after all. And I wouldn't call his experience or skill any good after everything that has happened, or do you forget that at the end of the game Ferelden is almost destroyed thanks to him.

[Shootypooty]

Alistair can DIAF. I have him and Wynne in my party at the moment and one of their little dialogues was him whining about a hole in his sock and he wanted Wynne to fix. I've never wanted to kill anything more in that instant in my entire life.

[paleobones]

I have only done one play through so i don't know all of the dialogue but to me Riordan is just making a suggestion concerning Loghain. If he had really felt strongly about making Loghain a grey warden he would have invoked the right of conscription. He left the decision up to the pc imo because we have a better understanding of the events and Loghain's character. I had no problem letting Alistair kill Loghain. There was no way I was going to trust him, not after everything we had been through.



Oh and for the record I love Alistair!

[Steel Majere343]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Alistair was my PC's tool, but all of the party members might be described that way.

....do you know the definition of a tool? lol.

it hardly fits to ANYONE else you can recruit. Almost noone else actually whines at you (though i think alistar has his reasons). Even the characters who value helping others like wynn, wynn will just say what the hell is wrong with you and let it be. Same with leliana even (at least shes not yet *****ed at me yet.). Morrigan doesnt care at all unless your wasting time or passing up an opertunity to strengthen yourself or your army. Sten also only cares about wasting time and making sure that everyone does what needs to be done.

I havnt actually traveled with zevran much so cant say on him, Shale however seems to not so much care about wasting time but the quickest solutions. Why help this person when you can just kill that person and we can go fight darkspawn etc.


thats the thing i love though, the characters are completely believable. There is no person who just hates everything and is some arch lord of evil with a cape and horns.

Although some think morrigan is, morrigan isnt. Shes sarcastic and believes you should take every opertunity to get whatever power is available to you to stop the blight no matter what. Which is understandable. She doesnt just hate everything lol.

there is a reasonable explanation for every character reaction, so much so that i could actually see myself making those decisions in real life.

For instance, redcliff. Some people strongly hate morrigan for wanting to tell the village to ****** off. But really, if you were there, your trying to stop the blight, saving thousands more then just redcliff, if you waste your time saving redcliff that is time you are wasting from your ultimate goal. One little village in the face of all of fereldan is small in comparison.

idk if id actually abandon it in real life BUT it can be easily explained is what im saying.

[Bagenholt]

Galad22 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

You mean your brother who wanted nothing but to defeat the blight? And because you love your brother so much, you end up not fighting the blight and abandoning your other brothers because of principle? haha that's a laugh.

I have every reason. First, I am not an idiot like Cailan. Second, I have an entire army at my command. Third, he will become a Grey Warden, thus his old life doesn't mean anything. Third, he admits he is mistaken and he yields and also shows a determination to repent, I wouldn't deny him that. Fourth reason, he has experience and skill that are superiorto Alistair's and that would be needed for the finale battle. Fitfh reason, I am planign to be the King that would unite Ferelden. to show everyone that I have the ability to turn an enemy into an ally is a wise political choice, in addition to Loghain being a symbol of Ferelden independence. 

What reason do I have to not kill Alistair for his audacity and betrayal?
I never liked him, so he never was my friend. I am planing to be King, I don't want him threatnening my throne. And he is useless, and is replaceable. Most importantly, he committed the gravest treachery possible as a grey warden.   

That's great you are better villain than Loghain even then. Everything worked just fine for you.
And when Alistair, one who has been loyal up to this point want to have his brothers murderer and traitor brought to jutice you kill him instead. That's great too. It's good thing real leader's aren't like you all that often.

You have absolutely no reason to assume Loghain wouldn't backstab you at worst possible moment, he has some experience for that after all. And I wouldn't call his experience or skill any good after everything that has happened, or do you forget that at the end of the game Ferelden is almost destroyed thanks to him.

Personal attacks like this are forbidden on this forum no? Calm down, if you can't keep it civil then don't open your mouth.

[Vicious]

Oghren is better comic relief than Alistair ever is. It's a shame he doesn't have as much dialogue.



Anyway Alistair is lame because he's the paladin character of the game. Always-good-choice-except-blood-magic-must-be-punished. If you play a 100% good character you get along with him pretty well. If you are willing to make harsher choices then he comes off as whiny and stupid.

[DariusKalera]

Steel Majere343 wrote...

just to clarify you do have a choice in the matter with the redcliff thing. hes right when hes saying you havnt tried hard enough. this is in the spoilers section so ill just say it.

you dont have to sacrifice or kill anyone to save the boy, if you do the mage tower first then the mages will help you rescue the boy by sending someone into the fade WITHOUT sacrificing someone.

Yes, I know this now, but I did not know this then.  Still does not change the fact that he acts like a tool back in camp.

Now, if he was with me in the castle and had said "Oh, by the way, the child will not send out the undead any more like he has for the past "x" number of nights and will just stay in his room for 2 days while we go to the mage's tower to free it and get help." then yes, I would know on my first play through that I could leave and nothing bad would happen. 

However, since he doesn't you are only able to go on the information that you have at the time.  This info pretty much leads you to one of two choices.  Kill the mom, or kill the kid.  This choice is even more evident if you happen to leave Redcliffe before the undead attack and you get the cutscene of seeing it destroyed.

[Galad22]

Bagenholt wrote...

Personal attacks like this are forbidden on this forum no? Calm down, if you can't keep it civil then don't open your mouth.

You seem to mistake sarcasm for personal attack.

[Bagenholt]

Vicious wrote...

Oghren is better comic relief than Alistair ever is. It's a shame he doesn't have as much dialogue.

Anyway Alistair is lame because he's the paladin character of the game. Always-good-choice-except-blood-magic-must-be-punished. If you play a 100% good character you get along with him pretty well. If you are willing to make harsher choices then he comes off as whiny and stupid.

Every Paladin, in every game I've played, both single and especially online are always pervs. Seriously, the whole knight in shining armour is there to get your knickers off. God knows what the female Paladins are thinking.

[Steel Majere343]

oh i should also mention that alistar doesnt have to stay whiny, nor does leliana have to stay "goody good". they can both be changed through their personal quests. Their personalities will literally change, both becomming more seriouse in diffrent ways. leliana embraces her inner assassin basically and enjoys killing, whereas alistair is far FAR less whiny, he becomes kind of like sten except still wants to help people.

[Vicious]

Trusting Loghain is not an insane decision. Once he's a Grey Warden - that's it. They are what they are. He will give his life fighting the Darkspawn. And he does. If he survives the final battle he goes on to rebuild the Ferelden Grey Wardens until descending to the Deep Roads for his Calling.



IMHO That is greater justice: To have the man atone for his deeds. How the hell is killing him going to help anyone?





The best part is if Alistair kills Loghain, at the end of the game he will express regret for the deed.



Alistair is extremely well-written and not perfect. However I don't think the game needed a white knight character who is completely unassertive. Ugh.

[Bagenholt]

Galad22 wrote...

Bagenholt wrote...

Personal attacks like this are forbidden on this forum no? Calm down, if you can't keep it civil then don't open your mouth.

You seem to mistake sarcasm for personal attack.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

^^b

[hibri2]

the character is well developed and performed to be able to bring so many diverse, and in some cases visceral reactions. that said:

i like him as a soldier, because he is loyal... he is a dog (not a malbari hound... a plain normal dog);

he annoys me because: he wants to always be "good", he has that chandler attitude to use humour as a shield, he is always pointless, by that i mean, he never has a point or an opinion, he is a cry baby and he is sort of a "i want the moment to be right just like in all those meryl streep girl's movies" puritan virgin.

the only thing i really like about him is that his voice sounds just like jeremy from peep show...

Modifié par hibri2, 15 décembre 2009 - 07:31 .

[Lotion Soronarr]

I like peoples definition of "whining".



The irony is if they were to apply their own criteria on themselves, they'd come off 10 times worse than Alistair.

[Nashimura]

In my first play through i didnt like Alister to much either. I didnt mind his crying and feeling sad just after everyone had died, that was a normal reaction to what had happened and i was caring around him, Its just when he argues with me over me killing the Arls wife that first really got to me. I was playing as if i was a Gray Warden, someone who was kind but would sacrifice 1 to save many....which is exactly what i was doing to me at the time i thought if i went to the mages the village may be attacked again so killed one women seemed the smart thing to do.



The Landsmeet was even worse, i had no intention of making Alister king going in so that was no surprise but when i wanted to spare Loghain i had my reasons



1. He is the best character in the whole game....i like my villans haha

2. He really did to me anyway seem like someone who though he really was working in the best interests for his country, just like i was.

3. We need man power to defeat the arch demon, after that when you know one of you has to die it seems fitting that it should be him. Although i took my lover morrigans offer....Her boobs turned me a little evil ill admit



I seriously thought about letting Anora kill Alistair but in the end told her to just let him go.



Few playthroughs later and i am now a Female City elf ive been playing a more morally correct person and alister fell in love with me, it revealed more of his personality and made me like him more as a character. Ive still got the dwarf quest intill the landsmeet and am not sure if i will make him king yet ive hardened him also so we will see how things turn out. Maybe he will make for a better king than i expect.