Alarna wrote...
I love Alistair. He is so realistic. He isn't a "Uber" man, he's like the man on my side, loyal, strong and he stands to his weaknesses. No, he cannot patch his clothes, he don't want to lead but he is loyal and honest. He is perfect, gratz to David Gaider
Vormaerin wrote...
The "You beat me, so I think you must be like Maric" speech is a bit of a stretch, though I wouldn't say its completely out of character. He's a very "black or white" type person.
And if you are right that no sane person would trust him on the eve of battle, then most of Ferelden is insane. If you don't think having the Hero of River Dane standing at your side in the battle isn't going to make lots and lots of lords and soldiers much happier about the upcoming fight, then I suggest you've little understanding of how things work. Heck, even the Landsmeet...whom you've actually lobbied...laughs off your Ostagar tales. The rest of the country probably doesn't even give you that much courtesy
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Vormaerin wrote...
The "You beat me, so I think you must be like Maric" speech is a bit of a stretch, though I wouldn't say its completely out of character. He's a very "black or white" type person.
Right...because matrial provess is clear proof of ones allegiance. A good fighter MUST be a loyal son of Freleden. It can be no other! Orlesians don't know how to fight.And if you are right that no sane person would trust him on the eve of battle, then most of Ferelden is insane. If you don't think having the Hero of River Dane standing at your side in the battle isn't going to make lots and lots of lords and soldiers much happier about the upcoming fight, then I suggest you've little understanding of how things work. Heck, even the Landsmeet...whom you've actually lobbied...laughs off your Ostagar tales. The rest of the country probably doesn't even give you that much courtesy
You might have little understanding of how politics work. Loghain is a unstable general that tried to stage a coup, tried to eliminate all banns that opposed him, sold his people into slavery, tortured and intimidated opponents, etc, etc..
No sane person will leave a person like that to watch his back. Do you forget that he probably still has a few supporters? A few fanaticly loyal soldiers who could turn on you when you least expect it, if he were to command so. Precisely because he still has quite a lot of power he is dangerous. He is a problem.
No man, no problem.
Loghain was the top dog in the whole chain. All the lesser banns and officers followed him. Kill him and they'll have no choice but to swear allegiance to you (or should I say Alistair). As long as he's alive, there's still a chance that they wil ltry something to bring him back to power. If for nothing else, then to get something in return or to have him cover for their own misdeeds.
Vormaerin wrote...
Loghain has committed a lot of crimes. However, you completely misunderstand his character if you think he is treacherous. He has enormous personal integrity; he's just ruthless and, worse, wrong about the situation. I had no problems trusting him, because he's not at all like Howe. Yes, Loghain betrayed Cailan. But it wasn't greed for personal power, like it would have been with a man like Howe. He saw it as a choice of two evils: betray Cailan or betray Ferelden. He was probably wrong about that (though for all we know, Orlais may well have intended to save Ferelden from the Blight the same ways the Soviet Union "saved" Poland from the fascists in WWII). I needed him, his men, and all his supporters to face the Blight. Maybe just putting Anora on the throne would mollify all his supporters, but if you think that after killing Loghain and imprisoning Anora the 25-30% of the nation personally loyal to the Mac Tirs are all going to just say "oh, okay. New king. Let's go"... well, you haven't read much history, imho.
Its not like he was being pardoned. He's not remaining as Regent or even Teyrn. He's trading one death sentence for another. And, frankly, the great hero who loses his way and then redeems himself by going out in a blaze of glory is a better story than "National Hero gets head chopped off in political power struggle."
keesio74 wrote...
Alistair annoys me. Good guy but whatever. I wish I could take Oghren in his place. I love Oghren. But he's nowhere the tank I've built Alistair to be.
DariusKalera wrote...
keesio74 wrote...
Alistair annoys me. Good guy but whatever. I wish I could take Oghren in his place. I love Oghren. But he's nowhere the tank I've built Alistair to be.
Thats actually the reason why I got the respec mod.
Lotion Soronnar wrote...
Vormaerin wrote...
The "You beat me, so I think you must be like Maric" speech is a bit of a stretch, though I wouldn't say its completely out of character. He's a very "black or white" type person.
Right...because matrial provess is clear proof of ones allegiance. A good fighter MUST be a loyal son of Freleden. It can be no other! Orlesians don't know how to fight.
JaegerBane wrote...
I think people have started suffering from the Carth Onasi syndrome.
I.e., if a character isn't running around cackling like loony, waving his penis around with a necklace of fresh babies' ears wrapped around their neck, then they must be stupid/whiny/idiot.
I liked the guy. He reacted consistently to what was going on, he handled the deaths of his friends well enough, and he was consistently my choice tank for going into combat.
I vastly preferred to him to several others. I mean, want to talk about how whiny characters? Well, we have Morrigan, the single worst source of advice in all of Thedas ('What?! You mean you're going to help someone who you need as an ally? You'd be far better off just killing everyone and then realising you've failed your mission'). We have Sten, with his amazing inability to look further than 6 foot in front of him (' I don't care that we need to find this urn to cure the facilitator of the landsmeet - I want kill Darkspawn!').
Or how about Loghain, the resident paranoid delusional who's so spineless he doesn't even have the stones to straighten out his lackies?
Bah. Alistair was great.
I concur. *golf clap*Rheagan wrote...
JaegerBane wrote...
I think people have started suffering from the Carth Onasi syndrome.
I.e., if a character isn't running around cackling like loony, waving his penis around with a necklace of fresh babies' ears wrapped around their neck, then they must be stupid/whiny/idiot.
I liked the guy. He reacted consistently to what was going on, he handled the deaths of his friends well enough, and he was consistently my choice tank for going into combat.
I vastly preferred to him to several others. I mean, want to talk about how whiny characters? Well, we have Morrigan, the single worst source of advice in all of Thedas ('What?! You mean you're going to help someone who you need as an ally? You'd be far better off just killing everyone and then realising you've failed your mission'). We have Sten, with his amazing inability to look further than 6 foot in front of him (' I don't care that we need to find this urn to cure the facilitator of the landsmeet - I want kill Darkspawn!').
Or how about Loghain, the resident paranoid delusional who's so spineless he doesn't even have the stones to straighten out his lackies?
Bah. Alistair was great.
This.
Medhia Nox wrote...
People seem to be more concerned about defending their choice to kill Loghain.. than any arguments leveled against Alistair.
"Well.. I.. I would kill Loghain if he hurt my feelings! I'm with Alistair!"
It's funny how people want some make believe world of "Grey" and then they go on to demand that their "opinion" is Fact and beyond reproach. World of "grey" indeed.
Modifié par TeenZombie, 16 décembre 2009 - 12:56 .
Modifié par Juneya, 16 décembre 2009 - 01:08 .
Juneya wrote...
When you have a character that is 100% absolutely pure, Alistair is just boss. He is sweet, funny, polite, and chivalrous.
When you have a character that is
Alistair and Morrigan, people don't realize, are actually quite identical. If you are even just a little bit on the grey side of the black-and-white scale, its pretty much (Alistair disapproves -9000)
EDIT: oh, one more thing that pissed me off about alistair... well, it was more of an annoyance, but no matter... he had that THING about disapproving whenever I recruited a new party member. Shale, -10. Zevran, -10. I think there may have been a few others where I tripped over my words and Alistair was like "dude, you suck" (Alistair disapproves -10) but seriously... he's a little paranoid about recruiting some of the new party members.
TeenZombie wrote...
Medhia Nox wrote...
People seem to be more concerned about defending their choice to kill Loghain.. than any arguments leveled against Alistair.
"Well.. I.. I would kill Loghain if he hurt my feelings! I'm with Alistair!"
It's
funny how people want some make believe world of "Grey" and then they
go on to demand that their "opinion" is Fact and beyond reproach. World
of "grey" indeed.
Even in a world of "grey" self
preservation and common sense still apply. Self preservation says that
Loghain is a traitor, poisoner, and slaver who wanted all Grey Wardens
dead. Common sense says that if you want to end the civil war before
it begins, you don't trust Loghain.
What is Alistair guilty
of again? Yes, he wants revenge, but MAYBE, just maybe, he's not
psychic, evil, or a giant jerk, like the player character who would
throw the fate of Ferelden into the hands of a madman.
Also, Alistair is dreamy, while Loghain has crazy eyes. Seriously, who would trust a person with those eyes???
Modifié par DariusKalera, 16 décembre 2009 - 01:22 .
Modifié par Suprez30, 16 décembre 2009 - 01:27 .
), so of course I'll defend him. He's human - people get PO'd for lots of stupid reasons, so I'd never ding him for doing something that seems out of character/irrational (vis a vis the Landsmeet - and you know, I kind of wanted to off Loghain anyway). Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 16 décembre 2009 - 01:29 .
DariusKalera wrote...
Common sense also says that having 4 Wardens is better than 3.
TeenZombie wrote...
DariusKalera wrote...
Common sense also says that having 4 Wardens is better than 3.
At the Landsmeet, Alistair and PC have no idea how the Archdemon dies. They also have no idea that the Archdemon is coming to town in a few days, so yes, four is better than three, but at that point, part of why the PC needs to get rid of Loghain is to allow Grey Wardens to enter the country. Dozens or hundreds of Grey Wardens would be even better than four, right?
DariusKalera wrote...
TeenZombie wrote...
DariusKalera wrote...
Common sense also says that having 4 Wardens is better than 3.
At the Landsmeet, Alistair and PC have no idea how the Archdemon dies. They also have no idea that the Archdemon is coming to town in a few days, so yes, four is better than three, but at that point, part of why the PC needs to get rid of Loghain is to allow Grey Wardens to enter the country. Dozens or hundreds of Grey Wardens would be even better than four, right?
They do not need to get rid of him, just make him a Warden. Same thing is accomplished and hundreds of Wardens enter the country.
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