180 réponses à ce sujet

[ghost9191]

warlock22 wrote...

D58 wrote...

How can shepard not live? do you guys think a machine deserves to live more than him?

All i seen in the other control and synthesis endings are a bunch of garbage and unrealistic even for a sci fi game,reapers walking around earth like nothing ever happend and what happens with the husks do they just live happily ever after in a nice reaper house and get day jobs or something?

Destroy is the only option that makes sense and keeps the universe relatively normal,not a bunch of nonsense reaper god protector helping build relays and walking around on the ground like nothing happend amongst the people whos familys it has just slaughtered!

I agree, i dont like the other endings. Conrtol Shepard is not him self, I just found it creepy when says those lines about him/her self. Like" the man I once was" and "I still have his memories " and so on. And Synthesis is better in the EC but I still view it as inhumane and just wrong. I just feel like your changing everyone, who they were and with out thier permission. And mass effect has always been about there is strength in diversity, and  thats when we all are at our best because we all have something different to bring to the table. Destroy is waht I was set out to do all threw out the games, I was to destory the reapers and its the only one were Shepard lives... I guess. I only say that because that "breath" scene doesn't make any sence. But aside that in destory everyone is the same, the reapers are gone and no longer a threat.

Although I will say that Control imo isn't that farfetch, but synthesis is just space magic, just does not make any sence and goes completely against what Mass Effect has always been about. But I will say that I hate it that EDI and the geth die in Destroy, but I feel that they can be rebuilt.

agree which is why i still have the destroy signature

i prefer people that choose control, hate synthesis with a passion though, it is just wrong, even worse since bioware tried hard to make it the "ideal" option

[Erixxxx]

ghost9191 wrote...
agree which is why i still have the destroy signature

i prefer people that choose control, hate synthesis with a passion though, it is just wrong, even worse since bioware tried hard to make it the "ideal" option

On the surface Synthesis is supposed to be the ideal option. The peak of evolution. But as you said, you feel that is wrong to force on someone. But that's the good thing about these endings, different people see different things that are good or bad about each choice.

[Mulehorn117]

Eterna5 wrote...

KingZayd wrote...

GiarcYekrub wrote...

Synthsis FTW, we are alive and have a tommorrow because of Shepards sacrafice

Destroy FTW, we are alive and have a tomorrow because Shepard got rid of the threat that we can't beat without a crucible: Reapers.

You also commited genocide and have doomed organics to inevitably destroy themselves.

If you believe the starboy / computer.....come on it's another machine! Blow those mo fo's off the face of the galaxy!

[CulturalGeekGirl]

renjility wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

renjility wrote...

I know, but the fact that survival instinct is stronger than anything else when trouble kicks in still makes Geth less than organics. When it comes down to it, they are selfish. 

And when they were made even more intellegent with the Reaper tech, Legion decided to keep that technology, despite its preach about Geth believing in evolving gradually, on their own strength. Despite that there are no doubt more risks involved with keeping Reaper tech.

Whether they are smart or dumb, they act with their own selfish interest placed above other things. I found it very odd Shepard could not say that much about Legions lies and that it seems to be forgotten very quickly.

Do you know absolutely nothing about biology? When humans are greviously injured or suffer brain damage, often a survival instinct kicks in, causing us to instinctually act to preserve our own lives.

According to you, humans should all be destroyed because we are useless and selfish... especilaly you, since you're willing to commit genocide and murder to save your own life. That's the most selfish thing I can imagine.

Then again, I don't hold people to such ridiculous standards. I think all beings deserve life, even those who are willing to denigrate other races as inferior and use that as an excuse to justify genocide and murder.

That you connect brain damage with survival instinct makes me believe you are actually the one who doesn't know much about biology. What area of the brain should be damaged to have that instinct kick in? You can get paralysed, lose your personality, your ability to reason and plan, you can go blind, deaf, become unable to process half of your world, and many other things, but survival instinct? I haven't heard that one during my classes in neuroscience. Doesn't mean it can't happen, but it doesn't sound that likely to me. With other, 'regular' injuries you can be right. But I addressed that, because the human prisoners' lifes were in danger, and yet they did not act on their survival instinct. While that should definitely be there in that situation. So, yes, humans can go beyond that.

Shepard kills a lot of people to stop the Reapers, no matter how you play it. You know when he committed mass murder? When he let that Batarian colony die in the explosion of the mass relay. Now that was something that I found terrible, and yet you were forced to do it, or everything else was lost. Sometimes those sacrifices have to be made to save even more people.

And again, when it comes to the geth, it is not even genocide, because they are not an organic race. They don't have to be gone for good, unlike those Batarians. More steel, chips and wires, and there you have a new Geth. 

You might want to read this article: "Commentary: Aggression and impulsivity after head injury" 

From the introduction: 

The most taxing behavioural complications of severe head injury for relatives include irritability and aggression, as illustrated by J. B. Longitudinal studies show an increase over time in the frequency and severity of temper outbursts (Brooks et al, 1986; Hall et al, 1994), which take the form of explosive or impulsive aggression. I will comment on the nature and treatment of impulsive aggression as illustrated in case J. B., emphasising the interaction of neurobiology with motivational, situational and personality factors.

So yes, increased aggression and impulsivity are common aftereffects of brain and head injuries. Do you need me to cite more studies? Please don't genocide all humans, now that you have learned this about us, it doesn't make us valueless as a species, I swear!

So, in your mind, if you commit genocide on a race, then use their DNA to clone a new batch, you haven't committed genocide? Good to know! Now we just have to get modern members of groups that have committed atrocities in the past to exhume corpses and make a bunch of clones, and no one will have ever committed a war crime in all of history! After all, if the geth are just wires, a human is nothing but muscle, blood and bone. Lump a new bunch of muscle, blood, bone, nerves, and all the rest of that stuff together, and voila, a new human, who is an effective replacement for the old one and makes you guiltless in any murder you committed.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 27 juin 2012 - 02:02 .

[Beep Il]

I had EDI with me in the beam scene and she got all the lines. I shed a tear and after that scene it's really hard to pick destroy even though it's my favorite ending. Plus, EDI is sad in her flashback scene.
If there'd be a way to save both Shep and her...

[Mulehorn117]

Kem1995 wrote...

I'm all for the destroy ending but how does Shepard survive if EDI and the Geth die? Shepard is part machine due to the Lazarus Project and it's clearly stated, he will die aswell.

actually he lives. The last breath. The old man talking at the is shepard. When you play as a female shep the old man then becomes an old women. I think it has to be shep with his kid or they wouldn't have changed that.

[Erixxxx]

Mulehorn117 wrote...

Kem1995 wrote...

I'm all for the destroy ending but how does Shepard survive if EDI and the Geth die? Shepard is part machine due to the Lazarus Project and it's clearly stated, he will die aswell.

actually he lives. The last breath. The old man talking at the is shepard. When you play as a female shep the old man then becomes an old women. I think it has to be shep with his kid or they wouldn't have changed that.

Wait, what? There's a Stargazer scene with a women that comes from something other than refusing the Catalyst?

[Jarlaxlecq]

Eterna5 wrote...

I like control. I effectively become a god who's sole purpose is to safeguard and preserve those I love. What's not great about that?

This ^

[Osiris273]

Destroy is the best ending, especially the part that where I commit genocide.

[Obsidian Gryphon]

I stuck to my original choice : Destroy. In the slideshow epilogue, I didn't see Jack and Miranda, does that mean they're dead?

[Dutchess]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

You might want to read this article: "Commentary: Aggression and impulsivity after head injury" 

From the introduction: 

The most taxing behavioural complications of severe head injury for relatives include irritability and aggression, as illustrated by J. B. Longitudinal studies show an increase over time in the frequency and severity of temper outbursts (Brooks et al, 1986; Hall et al, 1994), which take the form of explosive or impulsive aggression. I will comment on the nature and treatment of impulsive aggression as illustrated in case J. B., emphasising the interaction of neurobiology with motivational, situational and personality factors.

So yes, increased aggression and impulsivity are common aftereffects of brain and head injuries. Do you need me to cite more studies? Please don't genocide all humans, now that you have learned this about us, it doesn't make us valueless as a species, I swear!

So, in your mind, if you commit genocide on a race, then use their DNA to clone a new batch, you haven't committed genocide? Good to know! Now we just have to get modern members of groups that have committed atrocities in the past to exhume corpses and make a bunch of clones, and no one will have ever committed a war crime in all of history! After all, if the geth are just wires, a human is nothing but muscle, blood and bone. Lump a new bunch of muscle, blood, bone, nerves, and all the rest of that stuff together, and voila, a new human, who is an effective replacement for the old one and makes you guiltless in any murder you committed.

Aggression is not the same as survival instinct. Survival instinct is fight or flight. What your article describes is not really survival instinct kicking in, like you suggested earlier. What the subjects in that article suffer from, is not their survival instinct. The article says that people who are not impulsive before the brain injury, can get alcoholism or bulimia. That's not survival instinct.

I did not suggest to simply "genocide" the Geth just because. They are an unfortunate casualty when you do what you have to do: destroy the Reapers. If their flashlights would not have gone out because of the destroy option, I would not have wanted them to be wiped out anyway. But in the current context I find it an acceptable sacrifice, because of the reasons I have mentioned.

" After all, if the geth are just wires, a human is nothing but muscle, blood and bone."

You see, that is were your and mine idea of what the Geth differ. I still see the Geth as machines, advanced computers. They are not equal to humans or other organic races. I think you know very well a human is more than muscle, blood and bone. That grey mass in our heads is what truly defines us. Each human is unique, both in personality, looks, and the inside (not even left and right in one person are exactly symmetrical). With Geth it is different. If I recall correctly, they are platforms for a lot of software. They are not each a unique individual. They rely on consensus of a lot of different programs. The loss of a Geth is not comparable to the loss a human being. It is not the loss of somebody's child, brother, father. It sounds to me a Geth is more easily replacable. 

Cloning your victims is a very interesting topic you bring up. If the clone is exactly the same, you could say that in a way you indeed have undone your murder... But I believe that is different discussion, one that goes beyond this topic.

[Mulehorn117]

Erixxxx wrote...

Mulehorn117 wrote...

Kem1995 wrote...

I'm all for the destroy ending but how does Shepard survive if EDI and the Geth die? Shepard is part machine due to the Lazarus Project and it's clearly stated, he will die aswell.

actually he lives. The last breath. The old man talking at the is shepard. When you play as a female shep the old man then becomes an old women. I think it has to be shep with his kid or they wouldn't have changed that.

Wait, what? There's a Stargazer scene with a women that comes from something other than refusing the Catalyst?

At the end when the old man is talking about shep with a boy. If you played as a female shep it's a woman instead of the old man. If you played as a male its a man. To me this has to be shep.

[Mulehorn117]

^or so I am told it's shep.

[Dutchess]

Mulehorn117 wrote...

Erixxxx wrote...

Mulehorn117 wrote...

Kem1995 wrote...

I'm all for the destroy ending but how does Shepard survive if EDI and the Geth die? Shepard is part machine due to the Lazarus Project and it's clearly stated, he will die aswell.

actually he lives. The last breath. The old man talking at the is shepard. When you play as a female shep the old man then becomes an old women. I think it has to be shep with his kid or they wouldn't have changed that.

Wait, what? There's a Stargazer scene with a women that comes from something other than refusing the Catalyst?

At the end when the old man is talking about shep with a boy. If you played as a female shep it's a woman instead of the old man. If you played as a male its a man. To me this has to be shep.

This has been changed with the EC then? Before the EC I finished the game with a female Shepard, and Stargazer was a man. I did not get the breath scene with her, though, so I suppose she is dead.

[Mulehorn117]

Mulehorn117 wrote...

Erixxxx wrote...

Mulehorn117 wrote...

Kem1995 wrote...

I'm all for the destroy ending but how does Shepard survive if EDI and the Geth die? Shepard is part machine due to the Lazarus Project and it's clearly stated, he will die aswell.

actually he lives. The last breath. The old man talking at the is shepard. When you play as a female shep the old man then becomes an old women. I think it has to be shep with his kid or they wouldn't have changed that.

Wait, what? There's a Stargazer scene with a women that comes from something other than refusing the Catalyst?

At the end when the old man is talking about shep with a boy. If you played as a female shep it's a woman instead of the old man. If you played as a male its a man. To me this has to be shep.

Check this out.

http://social.biowar...index/9834863/1

[Robhuzz]

Not everyone wants their Shepard to live. DAO has an option to avoid your warden from dying but not everyone chooses it because they like the story better that way.

While yes I agree that destroy is the best ending for Shepard, his crew and LI, control will most likely be better for the galaxy at large since you'll have the reapers themselves helping you rebuild it, with Shepard watching over the organics as an eternal guardian. I wouldn't choose this as I want a LI reunion more than the galaxy being rebuilt as fast as possible but I can see how some people prefer it.

Synthesis... not so much. Still would never choose it.

[Robhuzz]

Mulehorn117 wrote...

Erixxxx wrote...

Mulehorn117 wrote...

Kem1995 wrote...

I'm all for the destroy ending but how does Shepard survive if EDI and the Geth die? Shepard is part machine due to the Lazarus Project and it's clearly stated, he will die aswell.

actually he lives. The last breath. The old man talking at the is shepard. When you play as a female shep the old man then becomes an old women. I think it has to be shep with his kid or they wouldn't have changed that.

Wait, what? There's a Stargazer scene with a women that comes from something other than refusing the Catalyst?

At the end when the old man is talking about shep with a boy. If you played as a female shep it's a woman instead of the old man. If you played as a male its a man. To me this has to be shep.

Could be possible. With his upgrades received during lazarus project, it's uncertain how much synthetic Shepard actually is. Miranda did say they used bio synthetic fusion to get his organs to work again so if they're mostly synthetic and with the ME med care, it's possible Shepard doesn't age at all and thus will never die a natural death.

[HellbirdIV]

Destroy is the ending that makes the most sense. The game itself thinks it's the worst ending, though.

[Giga Drill BREAKER]

Most people see Destroy as the best ending but not for the reasons you listed OP

[MattFini]

HellbirdIV wrote...

Destroy is the ending that makes the most sense. The game itself thinks it's the worst ending, though.

It does?  

[D58]

Is that true if you finish the game as female the stargazer is female?

[KeraWildmane]

Destroy isn't the best ending, it's the least horrifying.

[xOnYourRadar]

TurambarEA wrote...

The genocide of the Geth and murder of EDI stops it being a 'good' ending for me. But there is no good ending in my opinion. Reject could have been the 'best' ending if our war assets had determined whether or not we won or not but the way reject has been handled it feels like a massive kick in the quad to anyone who wants to reject their nonsense-talking Starchild that they're so attached to.

For me, there's no ending amongst the four available that goes close to being palatable. They're all an abomination to me.

Exactly what I was thinking.  My chest hurts so much and I wanna cry because I feel no matter what choice you make there is no true happy ending to this trilogy.

I finished my first playthrough last night, and, when given the three options, I weighed the pros and cons of each.  I was leaning more towards control in the beginning, but destroy was a tempting option.  It was a hard decision for me to make because throughout the game I fought for the geth and helped them become a sentient race and achieve "life".  EDI I paired with Joker, helped her throughout the game understand humanity, and aided in convincing her that she is alive.

Ultimately, I chose Destroy.  I think my decision was primarily influenced by my romance option: Cortez.  That poor, sweet man.  I felt he didn't deserve another death of a lover.  That would just tear him apart.  I knew the Destroy option was the only option in which Shepard didn't sacrifice himself, so I chose it!

I chose to be selfish over being selfless.

I feel horrible.

I loved the game, but the outcomes kinda ruined it for me.

Modifié par xOnYourRadar, 27 juin 2012 - 03:02 .

[tardis_type_40]

Why don't I think Destruct is the "best" ending? I'll post what I posted elsewhere:

Of all the choices on offer, Control seems to be the one with the least amount of fallout: Shepard's consciousness replaces the Catalyst AI and calls off the Reaper attack, even using the Reapers to help rebuild the mass relays in
the wake of their being damaged, and then utilizes these machines to protect the galaxy from further threat. You don't have to sacrifice the Geth or EDI, and order is restored to the galaxy.

Wherein lies the issue?

Maybe I have a misunderstanding of the way the Reapers function, but I was under the impression that they were simply tools of the Catalyst; machine's built with the purpose of fullfilling a function? I do not recall any information that suggests they've developed to become sentient like the Geth.

And even assuming for a moment that the Reapers were an individualistic, sentient race -- a concept that strikes me as not very likely given the Catalyst's ability to speak as Harbinger -- and not just machines born from the destruction of billions of lives, are the other options really better? Forcefully merging the DNA of all living life with synthetics or commiting mass genocide by wiping out every synthetic in the galaxy is better than using the Reapers -- tools of destruction for hundreds of thousands of years -- to safeguard said galaxy? 

Modifié par tardis_type_40, 27 juin 2012 - 03:01 .

[VRtheTrooper]

can't believe that everyone is expected to have the same opinion on the endings.