180 réponses à ce sujet

[secretsubscriber]

Warrior Craess wrote...

secretsubscriber wrote...

I like the Control ending because its the spookiest ending.
All the talk of being a guardian and guiding the galaxy could have some negative ramifications.
For how long will civilization want the guidance of "The Shepard?"
The way the Shepard Catalyst speaks, I can see the cycle of culling start over.

I can't.  First it would require that shepard-catalyst forget all that it's been through to get to where it is now. It would need to forget Mordins small pictures/large picture method. It would have to forget the entire Reaper war. And it would have to agree that culling organics is a better method of protection than removing whomever is threatening the galactic whole. 

None of which I can ever see any avatar of shepard doing. 

The War to End All Wars, World War I, was followed by World War 2 a couple of  decades later.
Over time situations change and circumstances are reanalyzed and the lessons of the past  thrown out because they are deemed innapplicable to the current situation.
The Shepard Catalyst has an expansive, long term point of view, a god-like perspective. Just like the original catalyst. It just has more data to work with. But this new data doesn't mean it won't reach the same or a similar conclusion or lose the perspective of the original Shepard after centuries and millenia as this consciousness. This happens in real life all the time. How often do politicians betray the promises made to constituents because with new power comes new perspective.

Shepard-Catalyse is a threat! A spooky one. And that has fantastic story potential.

Modifié par secretsubscriber, 27 juin 2012 - 04:27 .

[Tankcommander]

CptData wrote...

The Destruction Ending IS the BEST Ending - if you value freedom and free will.

The other endings kinda subvert that ideal, but they're BEST Endings for those who want not to sacrifice whole species for a future.

They had to made EDI and the Geth die in Destroy or it would be leagues better than the other endings. As it is, Control is the way to go.

[shot_u]

For me it's simple - from my point of view, the gamer, it is indeed kind of genocide. Shepard decides to sacrifice synthetics when (in my headcanon) a couple of monts ago he made the peace with quarians come true. But only because I've beaten game without EC I knew that will happen. Still - when geth pay the price for destroying reapers, they don't turn off as a bunch of processes. Every one of them DIES as INDIVIDUAL, and every one DIES FREE. And they will be remembered, no doubt about that.

From Shepard's point of view, destroy is a natural choice. Hackett gave him an order, Anderson was certain about what must be done, everyone knew since the day one it's the only way. And catalyst doesn't tell him, that it's the only way to stay alive. He doesn't tell him that geth will be dead for sure neither. It's a big risk, as big as other choices, but necessary when Shep doesn't want to play god or be the one who let brutes, banshees and other ravagers become friends with humans.

So yeah, destroy is the only way.

Modifié par shot_u, 27 juin 2012 - 04:48 .

[ChuckieJ]

I agree with this. Your goal up until the encounter with the StarChild has always been to destroy them. Why would a conversation with a total stranger change your mind? There are some new lines where characters say (paraphrased) "You have a tough decision coming up" and "If we don't destroy them, they will destroy us". Why in the world would you trust the StarChild that Shep somehow has a magical strength that allows him to control the Reapers or merge organics & synthetics? Finally, isn't synthesis borderline robot-rape? You are condemning people with sub-100 year lifespans to become cyborgs by force for the rest of their life so that *maybe* life will be better for some random future generation.

[Ar7emis]

ChuckieJ wrote...
Why would a conversation with a total stranger change your mind?

You say this, yet Legion became a fan favourite. Why would Shepard trust him when he first meets him? What reason is he given to do so other than his word? Legion could have tricked Shepard to lowering the force field and then attacked him, we'd have been none-the-wiser. Yet Shepard took a leap of faith and trusted him.

We can't keep going on with this "oh but he shouldn't be trusted because we've never seen him before" nonsense...

To me, Control is the best ending. You don't remove anyone's right to self-determination (unlike Synthesis and Destroy), the races of the galaxy works together to create a brighter future, the geth and EDI survive and Shepard lives on as the new Catalyst in control of the Reapers who are now the guardians of life instead of destroyers. Presuming Shepard is paragon (and mine is) he's not going to start blowing up buildings and going mad...

Modifié par Ar7emis, 27 juin 2012 - 05:01 .

[dsprado956]

Jonathan Sud wrote...

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

So the best ending involves Genocide!

Ending that justifies genocide!

You kill millions of synthetic life, you get to live!

As much as I like my geth they aren't human... 

This times a million.

They are machines. As much as I love the geth and EDI, they are expendable because of that single fact.

If you want to make an omelette, you gotta break a few eggs....synthetic eggs

[Tal_Elmar]

dsprado956 wrote...

Jonathan Sud wrote...

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

So the best ending involves Genocide!

Ending that justifies genocide!

You kill millions of synthetic life, you get to live!

As much as I like my geth they aren't human... 

This times a million.

They are machines. As much as I love the geth and EDI, they are expendable because of that single fact.

If you want to make an omelette, you gotta break a few eggs....synthetic eggs

exactly. Sacrifices had to be made...sadly 

[secretsubscriber]

Ar7emis wrote...

ChuckieJ wrote...
Why would a conversation with a total stranger change your mind?

You say this, yet Legion became a fan favourite. Why would Shepard trust him when he first meets him? What reason is he given to do so other than his word? Legion could have tricked Shepard to lowering the force field and then attacked him, we'd have been none-the-wiser. Yet Shepard took a leap of faith and trusted him.

We can't keep going on with this "oh but he shouldn't be trusted because we've never seen him before" nonsense...

To me, Control is the best ending. You don't remove anyone's right to self-determination (unlike Synthesis and Destroy), the races of the galaxy works together to create a brighter future, the geth and EDI survive and Shepard lives on as the new Catalyst in control of the Reapers who are now the guardians of life instead of destroyers. Presuming Shepard is paragon (and mine is) he's not going to start blowing up buildings and going mad...

The Control ending removes self determination because Shepard is now sheparding society based on his concept of peace and order.
In the Synthesis ending, everyone gets a synthetic upgrade, and synths get an organic upgrade, but the Krogan are still Krogan and Humans are still humans and the Geth are still Geth and so on.Ttheir differences are still just as vast as they were before. While EDI imagines a great cyborg enlightenment, it doesn't preclude individuals choosing their own path, or wars breaking out because one society wants the resources of another. All it does is remove a "material" difference between organics and synthetics. It changes the variables in the equation that lead to Reaper-craziness. It doesn't even preclude that these new Organo-Synthetic races won't create new completely synthetic races and get themeselves in the same mess.

[Paladin14]

 People don't understand, sometimes when put in charge you have to make the tough decisions. It's how you handle them that define who you are. I chose destroy. I didn't choose it for my LI. I chose it because it meant all those I fought for could live without fear and rebuild. There are some sacrifices, yes, but there always are... I would have loved to save both Ash and Kaidan, but the hard truth is you can't.

My dad (who has never played or seen mass effect) watched me play the EC last night and when I got to the ending and had all the choices explained, asked me what I was going to do. So in turn, I asked him and he told me he would destroy them because no one has the right to decide the fate of so many people and I should finish what I set out to do.

Destroy, to me, seems like the best option because it's what everyone wanted, for some way to stop the reapers. I wouldn't have so many work alongside the ones who destroyed their lives. I have no regrets.

[jules_vern18]

Ginkasa wrote...

Xellith wrote...

Rejection is the best ending. My headcannon proves it.

Shepard told the Harbalyst to go screw himself. He then radio'd joker to inform him that crucible failed and to come get his wounded ass only if he had the time. To which Joker responded "I'll make the time". After picking up Shepard the Normandy and the rest of the fleet retreated.

The war went from bad to worse after the attack on the citadel. Most of the Victory Fleet was wiped out before the retreat was sounded. The greatest fleet ever assembled was just brushed aside. But the effort had made some people realise that defeat was inevitable.

The Normandy and her crew were part of the survivors of the Victory fleet. Shepard was going to be in the Hospital for a while. But there was a lot to do. Garrus having learned from Shepard's example set out to unite the galaxy. Working long and hard he organised people of different races to build massive Ark Ships - akin to Quarian Live ships. These ships then headed out to a handful of planets outside of the Relay Network to hide until the Reapers retreated to dark space.

Liara in the meantime set her time capsule plan into action in case the Ark Project failed.

Over the course of one thousand years, the multicultural civilisation grew. Returning to the Relay Network space in order to expand and recover technologies and resources. A feet was built comprised of ships that would put the destiny ascension to shame. A beacon was found by an expedition to Eden Prime. They contacted Liara T'soni who was well into her Matron years to let her know that some others elsewhere may still be functional.

The location of the Reapers hibernation area was eventually determined after detailed examination of the Citadel systems. After many years of building up strength - The fleet was used to launch an all out assault on the Reapers in dark space where they were obliterated with no resistance.

-----

Shep Lived with his LI
Every advanced species survived.
The Reapers were defeated.

So yea...

As far as headcanon goes, that's pretty okay. I don't hate it.

I prefer the stasis pod headcanon, but this works too

[mrcanada]

While it alludes to Shepard surviving, it only creates more questions since it is IMPOSSIBLE TO SURVIVE WHAT THEY ARE SHOWING!!!!!

To me, the Destoy ending was the only one that supported the IT and the EC weakened it significantly.

[krukow]

mrcanada wrote...

While it alludes to Shepard surviving, it only creates more questions since it is IMPOSSIBLE TO SURVIVE WHAT THEY ARE SHOWING!!!!!

To me, the Destoy ending was the only one that supported the IT and the EC weakened it significantly.

It's impossible to survive being near an explosion on the citidel?  Cuz Shep has survived being around lots of explosions before...

[AlphaDormante]

krukow wrote...

mrcanada wrote...

While it alludes to Shepard surviving, it only creates more questions since it is IMPOSSIBLE TO SURVIVE WHAT THEY ARE SHOWING!!!!!

To me, the Destoy ending was the only one that supported the IT and the EC weakened it significantly.

It's impossible to survive being near an explosion on the citidel?  Cuz Shep has survived being around lots of explosions before...

To be fair, Shepard wasn't bleeding like a stuck pig and walking into the explosions in any of the other cases.

[krukow]

AlphaDormante wrote...

krukow wrote...

mrcanada wrote...

While it alludes to Shepard surviving, it only creates more questions since it is IMPOSSIBLE TO SURVIVE WHAT THEY ARE SHOWING!!!!!

To me, the Destoy ending was the only one that supported the IT and the EC weakened it significantly.

It's impossible to survive being near an explosion on the citidel?  Cuz Shep has survived being around lots of explosions before...

To be fair, Shepard wasn't bleeding like a stuck pig and walking into the explosions in any of the other cases.

Which is why he got knocked out and had to gasping breath wake up later!

So yeah, back when the citidel appeared to explode and go crashing to earth, I agreed that this made no sense, but now that they've retconned the citidel to being just really damaged, I can roll with it.

[D58]

It was confirmed on twitter by a bioware employee (forgot his name) that shepard does live

[WYLDMAXX]

Tal_Elmar wrote...

dsprado956 wrote...

Jonathan Sud wrote...

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Abraham_uk wrote...

So the best ending involves Genocide!

Ending that justifies genocide!

You kill millions of synthetic life, you get to live!

As much as I like my geth they aren't human... 

This times a million.

They are machines. As much as I love the geth and EDI, they are expendable because of that single fact.

If you want to make an omelette, you gotta break a few eggs....synthetic eggs

exactly. Sacrifices had to be made...sadly 

My Shepard only looses sleep over the death of vent boy.   

[MaleQuariansFTW]

Eterna5 wrote...

I like control. I effectively become a god who's sole purpose is to safeguard and preserve those I love. What's not great about that?

This.

Happy is an objective term. To people who want Shep to live, Destroy is the only logical choice. To me, happy can be from Shep living or sacrificing himself. It depends on which Shep I'm playing as. Doesn't mean you have to shoot down others because they don't see it like you do. Have an open mind for christ's sake.

[casedawgz]

 My take on destroy is similar to Ashley's take on aliens in ME1. If you and your dog get attacked by a bear and to save yourself you need to sacrifice your dog, you do it. You can still love your dog but at the end of the day, its not human. My unwillingness to play god over all the real boys supersedes my reluctance to sacrifice pinnochio.

[j78]

For me it’s the only ending . AI can be recreated .

[CrystalXPredator]

I just cant believe to life with: husks, banshees, cannibales, Marauder Shields,
robotic rachni, reapers and more.

I mean it seems like resident evil
i am not sure wich part it is, but in a scene you see the doctor who tamed zombies
for some minutes

and seriously who of you want to life with zombies or at mass effect with husks,
banshees and more??

and Synthesis O.o daf**q?? wich reason have it for future mass effect games??
Just to kill some enemies, because they want his old DNA back cuz of
mind lack or something like that??

At the Control ending just look what Leviathan did, (if these dialouge can be trusted)
he can leaving the control from the Catalyst and got his own mind
to choose, choices and he killed one of himself (reaper).

So by control The deepest enemies, like the Reapers, control the whole
galaxy and NO ONE CAN'T beat them because of the strength!!!

Anyway you got the 3 choices to go and you picked them already
it just my opinion about that.

Edit: sorry for my bad english

Modifié par Deaken, 27 juin 2012 - 07:52 .

[Warrior Craess]

secretsubscriber wrote...

Warrior Craess wrote...

secretsubscriber wrote...

I like the Control ending because its the spookiest ending.
All the talk of being a guardian and guiding the galaxy could have some negative ramifications.
For how long will civilization want the guidance of "The Shepard?"
The way the Shepard Catalyst speaks, I can see the cycle of culling start over.

I can't.  First it would require that shepard-catalyst forget all that it's been through to get to where it is now. It would need to forget Mordins small pictures/large picture method. It would have to forget the entire Reaper war. And it would have to agree that culling organics is a better method of protection than removing whomever is threatening the galactic whole. 

None of which I can ever see any avatar of shepard doing. 

The War to End All Wars, World War I, was followed by World War 2 a couple of  decades later.
Over time situations change and circumstances are reanalyzed and the lessons of the past  thrown out because they are deemed innapplicable to the current situation.
The Shepard Catalyst has an expansive, long term point of view, a god-like perspective. Just like the original catalyst. It just has more data to work with. But this new data doesn't mean it won't reach the same or a similar conclusion or lose the perspective of the original Shepard after centuries and millenia as this consciousness. This happens in real life all the time. How often do politicians betray the promises made to constituents because with new power comes new perspective.

Shepard-Catalyse is a threat! A spooky one. And that has fantastic story potential.

Shepard catalyst has a unique perspective that the starbrat lacked. Shepard actually had to fight for the survival of his/her cycle. Star brat was created to maintain balance, but never experienced the struggle to survive. Shepard-catalyst may be a fancy AI. But it's a fancy AI loaded with all the post thought, emotions, experiences and memories of shepard.  Not to mention that the starbrat refused to see any chance of cooperation between synthetics and organics, where as shepard actually help achieve that cooperation.  I'll take my chances with a shepard-catalyst over a starbrat any day.

[DarthRevan4life]

Destroy or Reject to me are the only logical choices and this is why.

Synthesis - You're making a decision to alter all known species throughout the galaxy to create a new species that's organic/synthetic.  You've wiped out evolution that has paved the way for the stronger species to survive and you've also doomed civilization.  Evolution is key to allow species to adapt to new environments and you've just destroyed that.

Next, everything you know and love is gone.  Asari will no longer live to a 1000, Krogan genetics will change, Humans are no longer diverse.  It was said that the galaxy demands diversity and yet that is completely thrown out the window to allow for one single species.  There is nothing unique about any species; I realize things still look the same in regareds to physical features but what happens after a few generations, will the new DNA code alter appearances as shown by the green eyes/skin patterns?  

Next up and the most horrific aspect of it all.  What happens to the Reaper ground forces?  How horrible would it be to live life as a Husk/Cannibal/Brute/Banshee/Marauder/Ravager?  How do you go about your life now that you're not just a weapon to be used?  Can you go back to your families, will society even accept you?  I would assume all Banshees would be wiped out by the Asari as they are still Ardat-Yakshi. 

So to me, synthesis is just unacceptable as it destroys what made every species special/unique let alone what happens to the Reaper ground forces.

Control

So in the end, even for a Paragon, Shephard states that he/she will use the Reapers to help preserve galactic society and basically police the universe.  But what if Shephard is wrong and makes a bad choice and what happens to those that oppose the Reapers after everything they've done and everyone they've murdered.  I don't see how this is a viable choice.  So the Reapers are left alone to "Shephards" own decisions and although I would like to think that he/she/it would make the right call if something ever came up where the Galaxy would need assistance but what if they're wrong and there's nothing we can do to stop them.

Destroying the Reapers is the only real choice to me as it gets rid of the greatest threat the galaxy has known and allows future cycles to continue to evolve unabatted.

[Ingvarr Stormbird]

As with any other ending preference, its down to personal values and beliefs really.

Personally, I can't kill somebody even if I am being told it will save many others. This is just giving in to twisted villain's game. Villain says "ok, just kill them - and I won't kill everybody else".
And I was shown enough to believe that destroying sentient synthetics qualifies as murder. Or even racist kind of murder.

That's why I can't see Destroy as a "best" choice. Even if I would know that it will allow me to survive, I will prohibit myself to make judgement based on this, because this would made it even more selfish and morally corrupt.

Modifié par Ingvarr Stormbird, 27 juin 2012 - 08:19 .

[AtreiyaN7]

You can't believe it? Believe it - there are those of us who value life in all its forms. We're all just organic machines anyway, and the fact that we are popped out of a uterus instead of being built doesn't make us inherently superior to other forms of intelligent life.

As for the issue of Shepard "forcing" Synthesis on everyone that I saw show up for the umpteenth time on the first page, the Catalyst said that it had previously tried to force this solution on organics when they weren't ready and that it had failed. The only reason it was a possibility this time was because Shepard/we were ready for it. I suspect that if people were unwilling to accept it, there would have been mass psychosis or whatever bad thing happens in a failed attempt at Synthesis. And the other thing about "not knowing whether there is not a hidden code" was quite handily disproven in the Synthesis epilogue. Sure, Synthesis requires a leap of faith, but so does Control.

I view Destroy as the worst ending because I don't think that murdering a close, personal friend and a newly uplifted race (the geth) is worth my Shepard's continued existence. I just do not believe that throwing away a bright future for selfish reasons or because other people have massive hang-ups about certain issues is acceptable.

Fortunately, I don't start threads screaming at people how dumb they are for making their own personal choices, regardless of what they are, or threads touting my own choice and saying that it's the only right way. What other people do in their game is their business. Don't try to insult my beliefs, and I won't insult yours.

[Pacifien]

People rewrote the Heretics. Now there's a chance for them to rewrite EVERYTHING.

Perhaps their Shepard viewed the Reapers as victims to an AI that was limited by its programming, so focused in finding a solution to the problem its been given that it never saw the worth of anything that didn't fit inside the one debate it was having with eternity. I mean, that's what one of my Shepard's felt like.

The other one was all, like, **** your history is doomed to repeat yourself bull****, starchild. Let me tell you about the one thing I learned from a synthetic: we'll create our own future. Then she blew it all up.