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Still mad we didn't reunite with LI


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#251
Jadebaby

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weltraumhamster89 wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

J5550123 wrote...

I just wanted to voice my opinion and say that I'd love a reunion scene for Shepard and his love interest and his crew. If BioWare could do that, I'd be very happy. Shepard not reuniting with his love interest is my only problem with the ending.


THIS IS THE ONLY THING LEFT YOU'RE FANS WANT BIOWARE!!


YES. I would be happy with the ending now, I just need proof that Garrus finds Shep. All I need Bioware :(


Agreed, as I just said in another post, it would be easier to headcanon if they didn't make it so god damn mysterious whether s/he survives or not. Their idea of 'implying' that Shepard survives failed miserably IMHO.

#252
Gulaman

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Jade8aby88 wrote...

Gulaman wrote...

Too much emphasis on "LI". This is not a romance game. It's an action RPG.


SQUAD REUNION then... Sound better?

I honestly think people are asking for too much now. People were unhappy with the ending so Bioware gave an expanded one. Now some people are unhappy because they didn't get a "reunion". Some people are never satisifed. At the end of the day, the story belongs to Bioware and their writers, and writers rarely change their product to satisfy the readers. It's a minor miracle that Bioware decided to alter the ending at all. 

#253
Trauma3x

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btw if I have to imagine an ending then why even play....again

CLOSURE?....WHAT CLOSURE!?!

#254
Jadebaby

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Trauma3x wrote...


I feel cheated and am seriously questioning why I ever played ME to begin with.....I've seen the other endings

Control = guardian of the galaxy
Synthesis= combining flesh and Metal
Reject= an all out Reaper win (which oddly enough I respect)
Ok we get it Victory through Sacrifice....but hey how bout a simple victory by "Will power" Your Shep has something or "some1"to come back to. that's why i would pick Destroy every time.
Destroy= was: pre EC the best option (available) for me but now after seeing EC I feel like it's a smack in the face.
all the other endings seem to have gotten a complete ending but Destroy feels somewhat cheap with no reuion
scene.
So why we given an all out "Reaper win" without being given an all out "organic win". I feel like all I did from ME - ME3 was really for nothing. In KoTor (You got a definative Jedi (Lightside ending and a Definative Darkside ending; ME has none of that (for those intresteded in a reuion with LI and Squad) . I stayed Loyal to my first (Ash/ Liara) LI, In "some" of my saves in ME2 I killed off my 1st LI Just so I would have my Shep Cheat on them (interesting litle wrinkle) and to not get a reuion scene seem incomplete and unfair. EC (Destroy) is a paint job at best. Don't get me wrong I'm glad they explained how my LI and bestie got back on the Normandy (though some would argue that scene give how close they were to harbinger doesn't make sense) but ok! then the Joker running thing is cleaned up fine. every save I have (20 saves alone with 1 Shep- LI x Council saved/killed x Collectors base saved/ destroyed- "Coll B" that's another thread :/ ) I picked Destroy in every game ending save....i don't want to use my imagination the ending (Destroy is broke) it needs fixing "soon" b/c i don't get the scene we are going to get an "all out happy Ending" choice and don't even get me started on how ME2 surviving squad were treated; not being on the Normandy or availible for the final push to earth, Come on! really?! -

CLOSURE?....WHAT CLOSURE!?!

btw it pains me for saying this and if the Devs see this (they probably won't) I apologize no disrespect intended but this could be fixed 1 1- 2 scenes added to destroy


not even scenes but photos. One picture speaks a thousand words.

#255
Rucent

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Trauma3x wrote...

btw if I have to imagine an ending then why even play....again


Exact question I've been asking myself.

#256
Jadebaby

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Gulaman wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Gulaman wrote...

Too much emphasis on "LI". This is not a romance game. It's an action RPG.


SQUAD REUNION then... Sound better?

I honestly think people are asking for too much now. People were unhappy with the ending so Bioware gave an expanded one. Now some people are unhappy because they didn't get a "reunion". Some people are never satisifed. At the end of the day, the story belongs to Bioware and their writers, and writers rarely change their product to satisfy the readers. It's a minor miracle that Bioware decided to alter the ending at all. 


No no no, they didn't expand the ending because people were unhappy with it. Sure, that's the reason they hide behind, but c'mon.. The real reason is because their share-holders were getting worried because of all the negative media associated with it. Face it, the original ending were pitiful. And if the EC was truly what the writers envisioned from the get-go.. Then they failed when they released said product without that vision already in place. Had this been the case from the start, I would have taken the speculative "implied" happy reunion along with their DEM, with a grain of salt and moved on. As another user posted. The Reapers got a 100% win, why can't we?

#257
Bfler

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In my opinion a better end in destroy would be if we see Legion, Mordin, dead soldiers, then a rescue team which finds Shepard alive and finally during Normandy liftoff we see the LI behind a window looking to the stars.
And Hackett could first say something about victims and losses and with the Shepard,LI scene something about hope.

#258
playoff52

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TullyAckland wrote...

 I said this elsewhere but I'll crosspost and put it here also: 

One of the goals for the Extended Cut, as part of addressing player feedback, was to provide more time with the love interest, and more opportunity for players to say goodbye to them and provide additional moments of connection between them. We did this in several ways:

  • Shepard can now actually say goodbye to the love interest when they are split up at the conduit run.
  • When Shepard sees flashbacks of important characters during the final decision, the flashbacks are now variable based on your playthrough – so your love interest can appear as one of the flashbacks, providing another moment of reflection between Shepard and that character.
  • A memorial scene was added, partly to show a close bond between Shepard and the love interest. The scene is variable, and if Shepard has a love interest in a given playthrough, it will be that character who places Shepard’s name on the memorial wall.
  • You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.


The way I would have done this would have been to have the breath scene immediately after the Normandy crash, then during the Epilogue voice over and slide show (which was beautifully read by Lance Henrikson) have Shepard putting up Andersons plaque on the memorial with the crew at some monument on the Citadel or shown in a slide with whoever Shepard was romantic with.

It doesn't really take too much. It's said we were given more time with them but we weren't really. The elements that were put in were elements that should have just been there to begin with.

Why it was felt to do such a half finished job on this games ending still just blows my mind. For a company that built it's reputation on telling a story why you'd suddenly just change your MO in the last few minutes of the final game of a story arc and say "you figure it out" is just...staggering.

Just tell the story already. Stop implying, stop hinting, stop leaving guess work.

#259
Darman

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Bfler wrote...

In my opinion a better end in destroy would be if we see Legion, Mordin, dead soldiers, then a rescue team which finds Shepard alive and finally during Normandy liftoff we see the LI behind a window looking to the stars.
And Hackett could first say something about victims and losses and with the Shepard,LI scene something about hope.


That is inedeed not so diferent from what we have now. Just in another order of appearance. The meaning stays the same.

Why not simply a reunion and LI featuring epilouge? Would have rounded everything off, would have provided the closure, would have saved ME3. But its missing.

playoff52 wrote...

Just tell the story already. Stop implying, stop hinting, stop leaving guess work.


Exactly. /sign.

Modifié par Darman, 28 juin 2012 - 10:04 .


#260
that guy2012

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I have no idea why they didn't add a reunion scene maybe they didn't have enough space or maybe they just didn't care. After playing the ec I feel like I am back at square 1, I mean at least a week ago there was hope that they would expand the breath scene. The way they might add it with a future sp dlc that one would have to pay for (I am okay with that) or release a true reunion scene as the absolute last dlc for Me3 as a final goodbye. Either way I got clarification with the EC but I didn't get any closure with my squad and LI. Instead of closure we got more speculations.

#261
Doctoglethorpe

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TullyAckland wrote...

  • You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.


What I don't understand from a storytelling perspective is that... if they know Shepard is alive, and more importantly WE know Shepard is alive, why not just show the reunion and make everyone happy?  Or at the very least Show shepard definitively alive rather then just an obscured near-dead corpse gasping for air.  Why leave us to speculate as to how something happens that we all know is going to happen because you say so (that he survives)?  The scene kind of worked before when everything was ambiguous, but now that everything is laid out (though all along you've tsated definitively he is alive, it even says so in the game files) leaving this one part ambiguous just seems out of place.  Theres no point from a storytelling perspective to do this unless you have specific intentions to return to this at a later date in some form (which you've made clear you won't).  Otherwise it would be like Star Wars Ep6 never showing luke getting off the Death Star, but instead just show Leia telling Han "I know he made it" roll credits, everyone speculates, but then Lucas would say "yeah he made it, don't worry."  What service would that do besides ****** people off?  Why do that rather then just show him surviving?  You leave things ambiguous for speculation while simultaniously confirming one way or another what ends up happening thus disallowing speculation, thats not how it works.  It just shows bad storytelling when you do that. 

#262
Jadebaby

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Darman wrote...

Bfler wrote...

In my opinion a better end in destroy would be if we see Legion, Mordin, dead soldiers, then a rescue team which finds Shepard alive and finally during Normandy liftoff we see the LI behind a window looking to the stars.
And Hackett could first say something about victims and losses and with the Shepard,LI scene something about hope.


That is inedeed not so diferent from what we have now. Just in another order of appearance. The meaning stays the same.

Why not simply a reunion and LI featuring epilouge? Would have rounded everything off, would have provided the closure, would have saved ME3. But its missing.

playoff52 wrote...

Just tell the story already. Stop implying, stop hinting, stop leaving guess work.


Exactly. /sign.


damn truth playoff.

#263
Jadebaby

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Doctor Moustache wrote...

TullyAckland wrote...

  • You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.


What I don't understand from a storytelling perspective is that... if they know Shepard is alive, and more importantly WE know Shepard is alive, why not just show the reunion and make everyone happy?  Or at the very least Show shepard definitively alive rather then just an obscured near-dead corpse gasping for air.  Why leave us to speculate as to how something happens that we all know is going to happen because you say so (that he survives)?  The scene kind of worked before when everything was ambiguous, but now that everything is laid out (though all along you've tsated definitively he is alive, it even says so in the game files) leaving this one part ambiguous just seems out of place.  Theres no point from a storytelling perspective to do this unless you have specific intentions to return to this at a later date in some form (which you've made clear you won't).  Otherwise it would be like Star Wars Ep6 never showing luke getting off the Death Star, but instead just show Leia telling Han "I know he made it" roll credits, everyone speculates, but then Lucas would say "yeah he made it, don't worry."  What service would that do besides ****** people off?  Why do that rather then just show him surviving?  You leave things ambiguous for speculation while simultaniously confirming one way or another what ends up happening thus disallowing speculation, thats not how it works.  It just shows bad storytelling when you do that. 


after 5 whole years no less. It's not exactly like this is an insignificant character we shouldn't care about....

#264
GreenFlag

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Doctor Moustache wrote...

TullyAckland wrote...

  • You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.


What I don't understand from a storytelling perspective is that... if they know Shepard is alive, and more importantly WE know Shepard is alive, why not just show the reunion and make everyone happy?  ...


because they need something to ME4 :)

#265
playoff52

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Cause it can't be said enough.

"Just tell the story already. Stop implying, stop hinting, stop leaving guess work. "

#266
Rucent

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That's signature-worthy right there.

#267
MissLiya

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Lack of reunite is the smallest problem we have with endings.

#268
Darman

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MissLiya wrote...

Lack of reunite is the smallest problem we have with endings.


No ist the biggest. After the biggest plotholes were filled by the EC. Screw the endings and how much sense they make. The game is ruined without closure and that can only come by Reunion and LI Epilouge.

Modifié par Darman, 28 juin 2012 - 10:45 .


#269
Xellith

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TullyAckland wrote...

  • You may notice that in the “Shepard lives” ending, the love interest hesitates to place Shepard’s name on the wall, and instead looks up as though deep in thought. This is meant to suggest that the love interest is not ready to believe Shepard is dead, and the final scene reveals they are correct. As the Normandy lifts off, there is hope that the love interest and Shepard will again be together.


That is what people want to actually see and experience. 

#270
MysticSpace

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Firecell11 wrote...

A reunion scene would be perfect and leave more people happy.

Exactly, it'll probably be DLC.

#271
Darman

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MysticSpace wrote...

Firecell11 wrote...

A reunion scene would be perfect and leave more people happy.

Exactly, it'll probably be DLC.


/sign and Id pay a 1000 bucks for this DLC.

#272
panamakira

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It would have been nice but I didn't require it in my destroy ending since it was so heavily implied.

#273
Doctoglethorpe

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Ultimately, I believe Bioware (or at least Casey and Mac) forgot they we're creating a video game's story.

In a movie, a character is just that, a character. Its another person. What happens to that character has a different effect on the audience. When they die, its at most like watching a friend die. Someone we know.

Video Games are different. When we directly control the actions of the main character (and Mass Effect gives us significantly more control over the character then most games with the dialog choices) what happens to that character feels not like its happening to somebody we know, but rather that its happening to ourselves.

The Matrix had an ending that worked for a movie, or a book, or any other non-interactive form. Neo’s heroic sacrifice is tolerable, its even to some an enjoyable story mechanics because the viewer can watch this character they've come to know become a martyr. When somebody you know sacrifices themselves heroicly you are proud of them. But when the audience IS the main character, and they die, we do not all feel like a martyr, as most real martyrs don’t themselves. We do not feel proud of our actions, we feel like we failed to truly win on our own terms and instead we’re forced to make sacrifices we didn’t want to make in order to achieve victory.

Obviously there are people who can accept these things. Who can feel good about their own death in the context of the story. Everyones different, everyone interprets and consumes a story in a different way. And they got that option, and thats great for them. But other people don't like that, don't want that. They don’t want to feel like they failed to win on their own terms. Thats not what video games are supposed to be about.

Now in the game we did barely manage to get our survival, despite it being an unnessisarily ambiguous one. But apply this logic to the LI. When you watch a movie character's love interest, you treat them as THEIR LI, not YOUR LI. But in a game, if you take the roleplayign seriously then that character feels like YOUR LI, thus you feel more attached to it. Now obviously I'm not saying we literally believe they our are girlfriend/boyfriend whatever. I'm talking about a connection thats more on a subconscious level. But it still has this effect on us. When Shepard is denied reunion with his/her LI, it makes some of us feel like WE were denied reunion with OUR LI.

I don't think Bioware understand this mentality, or at least the lead writer forgot about it or simply doesn't care.  I think they wanted to create a movie like ending and forgot that games are just different and must be written differently as it effects the audience differently. Or maybe they do know it and are trying to break our subconscious connection to these characters to allow us to move on, who knows lol. I don't really want to give them that much credit though.

And yeah yeah, I'm sure somebody reading this will misinterpret what I'm saying and think I believe Liara is my literal LI. No.

Modifié par Doctor Moustache, 28 juin 2012 - 11:09 .


#274
that guy2012

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Doctor Moustache wrote...

Ultimately, I believe Bioware (or at least Casey and Mac) forgot they we're creating a video game's story.

In a movie, a character is just that, a character. Its another person. What happens to that character has a different effect on the audience. When they die, its at most like watching a friend die. Someone we know.

Video Games are different. When we directly control the actions of the main character (and Mass Effect gives us significantly more control over the character then most games with the dialog choices) what happens to that character feels not like its happening to somebody we know, but rather that its happening to ourselves.

The Matrix had an ending that worked for a movie, or a book, or any other non-interactive form. Neo’s heroic sacrifice is tolerable, its even to some an enjoyable story mechanics because the viewer can watch this character they've come to know become a martyr. When somebody you know sacrifices themselves heroicly you are proud of them. But when the audience IS the main character, and they die, we do not all feel like a martyr, as most real martyrs don’t themselves. We do not feel proud of our actions, we feel like we failed to truly win on our own terms and instead we’re forced to make sacrifices we didn’t want to make in order to achieve victory.

Obviously there are people who can accept these things. Who can feel good about their own death in the context of the story. Everyones different, everyone interprets and consumes a story in a different way. And they got that option, and thats great for them. But other people don't like that, don't want that. They don’t want to feel like they failed to win on their own terms. Thats not what video games are supposed to be about.

Now in the game we did barely manage to get our survival, despite it being an unnessisarily ambiguous one. But apply this logic to the LI. When you watch a movie character's love interest, you treat them as THEIR LI, not YOUR LI. But in a game, if you take the roleplayign seriously then that character feels like YOUR LI, thus you feel more attached to it. Now obviously I'm not saying we literally believe they our are girlfriend/boyfriend whatever. I'm talking about a connection thats more on a subconscious level. But it still has this effect on us. When Shepard is denied reunion with his/her LI, it makes some of us feel like WE were denied reunion with OUR LI.

I don't think Bioware understand this mentality, or at least the lead writer forgot about it or simply doesn't care.  I think they wanted to create a movie like ending and forgot that games are just different and must be written differently as it effects the audience differently. Or maybe they do know it and are trying to break our subconscious connection to these characters to allow us to move on, who knows lol. I don't really want to give them that much credit though.

And yeah yeah, I'm sure somebody reading this will misinterpret what I'm saying and think I believe Liara is my literal LI. No.


THIS all the way THIS

#275
NRieh

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. It could have been only like a few seconds where Garrus searches for Shep on the Citadel or wherever she is. I mean, the Normandy did take off the green planet in the end again - before I saw the "breathe scene"

...if you expect your half-burnt Shep to wait Normandy for rescue - you're endangering him\\her a lot. Logical fail here is that between tube shooting and breath scene shown a huge amount of things that take long-long time. They need to repair (if they were not broken - why landing? Joker wanted to pee?). Relays are gone. Normandy is hell knows where. They can FTL for months if not years or decades before reaching Earth. And don't tell me it's just an unknown random nearby planet in local cluster which chanced to be right at hand for crashing when they needed it.

My word is - all BW needed to do for pro-reunion scenario - keep Normandy and\\or squad where they belong, I mean Earth. But nooo, they take away our squad (in the worst manner they could), throw it somewhere in another world (where? why?) and make tweets about how reunion is entirely possible (as that's what they wanted us to believe in via game). 

by the way, ironically all ME2 romances have higher chances for reunion. As they stayed on Earth, no one took them away into jungle.

Modifié par Nrieh, 28 juin 2012 - 11:42 .