306 réponses à ce sujet

[Voodoo2015]

There is no other ending that fitt.. The others endings are just stupid.

[rfalzar]

CDR David Shepard wrote...

DeathNyx wrote...

Seival wrote...

Paragon would never kill if he knows how to avoid it and still prevail... Paragon would never kill someone in such situation EVEN if a person(s) (no matter hostile of friendly) really deserves to die.

^ This

Personally i think Synthesis is paragon. Anyway i chose Synthesis with my paragon Male Shepard. I left Destroy to my Femshep Paragade.

Now I don't consider any option to be paragon or renegade.

What I want to know...is...how does Shepard making a "god-like" decision to change the DNA of every being (organic and synthetic) in the universe a "paragon" choice in your opinion?

^This.

None of the choices are clear cut Paragon or Renegade. There are shades of grey in each. You essentially get the choices of Dictator, Genetically violating everything, or genocide. Then there's refuse which feels like BioWare just added to slap us in the face, but that's a different topic altoghether. 

As for people saying the difference between Paragon and Renegade is killing or not killing, it's a bit more than that. Paragon is being more diplomatic, trying to work out solutions that are best for everybody. Renegade is all for the ends justify the means attitude. This doesn't mean just kill everything, it means victory no matter what gets in the way.

Modifié par rfalzar, 01 avril 2013 - 10:43 .

[Spartas Husky]

rfalzar wrote...


There are shades of grey in each. You essentially get the choices of Dictator, Genetically violating everything, or genocide.

Well given the catalyst has been lying his ass off, I dont trust him. Second given a giant chunk of the galaxy has a implant that if destroyed would kill them... he is lying/ bad writting.

And since destroying any sort of synthetic intelligence would yield the galaxy into a dark age far worse than destroying the relays... he is lying.

Overall he is lying lol Control or Destroy are the options. Renegade who wants to be overload or paragon who wants chaotic freedom. The goo... forget the goo.

I mean if a maniac tells you pressing the button will destroy the planet... yeah of course it wont destroy the planet he is just saying it so you wont press it.

[Han Shot First]

Seival wrote...


Who told you that Anderson is pure Paragon or "Avatar" of Destroy? He is nothing like that.

You can't be serious.

Anderson is the avatar of Destroy because Shepard imagines him shooting the tube when the Catalyst is describing the ending options, just as TIM is the avatar of Conrol.

As for Anderson not being a paragon...what series have you been playing? Anderson is one of the most paragon characters in the entire series. Despite being a First Contact War veteran he holds no grudges and favors cooperation with the Turians. Despite having some misgivings about the Council he also favors cooperation and working within the system, rather than humanity bullying its way to the top. In the books he is also consistently paragon.

Seival wrote...


Who told you that destruction of Collector base is Paragon? Doing as TIM asks you doesn't automatically make the deed Renegade.

Again, you can't be serious.

Who told me that destroying the Collector base is Paragon?

Bioware.

Destroying the Collector base awards 15 Paragon points. Keeping it awards 15 Renegade points. Hence destroying the base is a Paragon decision and keeping it is a Renegade one.

Modifié par Han Shot First, 02 avril 2013 - 04:19 .

[Solaxe]

Voodoo2015 wrote...

There is no other ending that fitt.. The others endings are just stupid.

Destroy all Reapers and commit a genocide based on some code. Not stupid at all

[Han Shot First]

Solaxe wrote...

Voodoo2015 wrote...

There is no other ending that fitt.. The others endings are just stupid.

Destroy all Reapers and commit a genocide based on some code. Not stupid at all

Destroy isn't genocide.

[Unschuld]

Yes, (mostly) Paragon.

Yes, Destroy.

[Xilizhra]

Again, you can't be serious.

Who told me that destroying the Collector base is Paragon?

Bioware.

Destroying the Collector base awards 15 Paragon points. Keeping it awards 15 Renegade points. Hence destroying the base is a Paragon decision and keeping it is a Renegade one.

I should point out that this is one of the few instances where the Renegade decision actually turns out to be the better one.

[aj2070]

batej wrote...

I've been a paragon player from the start of the series so when it was time to pick the Extended Cut endings I went in this order: 1) shoot the little brat (seriously, is there anyone who hasn't done this right away? ), 2) Control, which I loved, and 3) Synthesis, which still creeped me out and made me feel like I betrayed everyone, despite it being the utopia happy ending.

I didn't even check out Destroy ending in my game because I didn't want to sit through unskippable cutscenes for the fourth time for an ending that I possibly wouldn't like. But then I watched the video of it on youtube and was completely blown away. It was exactly what I wanted for my ending to be and it felt much more in line with the rest of the series than other endings. Emotions I experienced were very similar to the ones at the end of Mass Effect 1 and then ME2 (both paragon endings).

So, a question, paragon players - do you consider Destroy ending to be a renegade option?

No I do not.  The paragon - renegade color code breaks down in a couple of places in my opinion.  Take the geth repurpose/ reporgram vs destroy choice in Mass Effect 2.  the "paragon" option is to reprogram the geth.  The "renegade" option is to destroy the station.  The paragon option turns all geth into reaper thrals intentionally while the geth go to the reapers out of desperation with the destroy option.

[Kel Riever]

Destroy is the only Paragon choice, because it is the only ending where the Geth, EDI and Shepard survive.

[Reorte]

aj2070 wrote...

No I do not.  The paragon - renegade color code breaks down in a couple of places in my opinion.  Take the geth repurpose/ reporgram vs destroy choice in Mass Effect 2.  the "paragon" option is to reprogram the geth.  The "renegade" option is to destroy the station.  The paragon option turns all geth into reaper thrals intentionally while the geth go to the reapers out of desperation with the destroy option.

Is there anything that actually confirms that or is it simply a case of people insisting on parcelling every decision into paragon or renegade? The geth decision is very definitely one that doesn't really fit either IMO. Neither killing nor rewriting sound particularly paragon and the completely alien nature of the geth makes it even harder to decide which is the more ethical choice, ignoring any later implications. Probably the hardest and most interesting decision in the entire trilogy.

[MattFini]

All of my Shepards picked it. My canon renegade Shep was the first but the last playthrough I did with my 100% paragon Shep went for it as well.

[Flamewielder]

Did it with a mostly Paragon femshep. Rationale had nothing to do with alignment, but rather a conviction that the "Intelligence" came to a flawed conclusion. Conflict between Creator and Created, while possible, can be initiated by either side.

Furthermore, said conflict (from a machine perspective) would have to be driven by some form of competition over a given resource; but organic life has quite different basic needs from synthetic life. Machines don't eat, they don't drink, they have access to virtually unlimited construction materials (trillions of tonnes of stainless steel in our solar system alone) and solar energy.

The initial assumption by the Leviathans that conflict was unavoidable is due to their self-conviction that any life in the Galaxy should be subservient to their needs (i.e. all other life forms are slaves) but purely synthetic (such as Geths, as opposed to biosynthetic Reapers) would be immune to their control over organic species...

Destroy is a sacrifice to offer self-governance to all, for better or worse. Very much in line with Javik's worldview of the supremacy of the "Cosmic Imperative". Even Legion stated that an independent Geth evolution was preferable to an Old Machine designed one. Only the threat of utter anihilation of all Geth forced it to adopt the Reaper modification. Even EDI, a Reaper tech derived human AI, felt the nature of the Reapers' purpose to be abhorrent. Better dead than reaperized, I guess...

That being said, there's good reasons to choose other endings, as none are perfect. I did with different Sheps.

[knightnblu]

I don't really care that the option is colored red, Destroy is the paragon option for ME3. It grants justice to the victims of the Reapers, it doesn't violate the essence of life, and it doesn't put Shepard on a power trip with Control. I see it as the only paragon choice.

[Han Shot First]

knightnblu wrote...

I don't really care that the option is colored red, Destroy is the paragon option for ME3. It grants justice to the victims of the Reapers, it doesn't violate the essence of life, and it doesn't put Shepard on a power trip with Control. I see it as the only paragon choice.

A common mistake people make is in assuming that the color-coded explosions are representing the morality of the ending choices. People think that probably because at the end of Mass Effect 2, the color of the star behind the Illusive Man was blue if the player chose to destroy the Collector Base (paragon) and it was red if the player chose to keep it. (renegade)

In ME3's ending however there is no symbolism to the color of the wave of energy sent out by the Crucible. If that were the case, the wave of energy sent out by Synthesis would be purple instead of green. The symbolism is in the avatars chosen to represent Destroy (Anderson) and Control. (TIM)

Modifié par Han Shot First, 02 avril 2013 - 05:59 .

[kathic]

I chose destroy for my original ending where I was 70-80% paragon. Ultimately I decided that I like the control ending best even if Shepard "dies." Maybe its just based on my secret desire to be appointed dictator of the universe for good or ill.

[Xilizhra]

Han Shot First wrote...

knightnblu wrote...

I don't really care that the option is colored red, Destroy is the paragon option for ME3. It grants justice to the victims of the Reapers, it doesn't violate the essence of life, and it doesn't put Shepard on a power trip with Control. I see it as the only paragon choice.

A common mistake people make is in assuming that the color-coded explosions are representing the morality of the ending choices. People think that probably because at the end of Mass Effect 2, the color of the star behind the Illusive Man was blue if the player chose to destroy the Collector Base (paragon) and it was red if the player chose to keep it. (renegade)

In ME3's ending however there is no symbolism to the color of the wave of energy sent out by the Crucible. If that were the case, the wave of energy sent out by Synthesis would be purple instead of green. The symbolism is in the avatars chosen to represent Destroy (Anderson) and Control. (TIM)

I always saw it as the Renegade inside Anderson and the Paragon inside TIM. They're both mostly one way, but there's variation in that as well.

[PwrdOff]

Destroy does seem like somewhat of a renegade option, since it's more along the lines of "do what has to be done no matter the cost" instead of "everybody hold hands and sing kumbaya." But sometimes the renegade option is the right thing to do, wasn't the entire point of the morality system that it wasn't just a clear cut good vs. evil split?

[kathic]

Let's not forget that there is more than just 3 endings. Control itself is different based on if you were mostly Paragon or Renegade. In one ending you work to defend the weak and ensure peace while in the other you ensure the dominance of the groups that you favor.

[aj2070]

Reorte wrote...

Is there anything that actually confirms that or is it simply a case of people insisting on parcelling every decision into paragon or renegade? The geth decision is very definitely one that doesn't really fit either IMO. Neither killing nor rewriting sound particularly paragon and the completely alien nature of the geth makes it even harder to decide which is the more ethical choice, ignoring any later implications. Probably the hardest and most interesting decision in the entire trilogy.

Like someone else posted about keeping or destroying the collector base, It is based on points rewarded; you get 15 points 30 points either way based on decision.

Source: Mass Effect Wiki Mass Effect 2 Morality Guide

Modifié par aj2070, 02 avril 2013 - 07:31 .

[Neizd]

Before EC - Destroy, because it was a goal from the very start of ME
After EC - Refusal, because Shepard stays true to his ideals like a hero. He either wins or loses but while fighting alongside others. He doesn't play god and doesn't discriminate other races.

[DeathNyx]

Kel Riever wrote...

Destroy is the only Paragon choice, because it is the only ending where the Geth, EDI and Shepard survive.

What? R u sure?

[Felya87]

both my main shepard are mostly paragon. and, a part from the first time that I didin't see the other two ways so I jumped on sintesy by accident, they both choose Destroy.

but I usually don't play anymore priority Earth. the game end with the satisfating Death of kay leng. renegade version, of course. too good to pass. even for the paragons.

the fact is: control is not a chance for my Shepards. they have both said at nauseum to TIM he was wrong...how could they choose HIS way?!?!? NO!!!

sintesy: at the time I didn't remeber the sickening remembrance with Saren's words when indoctinatred...but after seeing it and alla that green, I remembered Overlord. and how bad the fusion of organic and sintethic had gone. so...again NO!!!

destroy: I'm sorry that, after all my hard work to help the geth and made peace between them anche the Quarian they must die just to give a chance to the other two horrorific choise. not so sorry for EDI. I find her trasformation in a sexualized Pinocchio quite frakening.
and destroy in the only way to WIN the war, and DEFEAT the reapers. so, sorry, EDI, sorry Geth, you are casuality of war. victory need big sacrifice, since the WA don't work properly, in the game. >_>

[Kel Riever]

DeathNyx wrote...

Kel Riever wrote...

Destroy is the only Paragon choice, because it is the only ending where the Geth, EDI and Shepard survive.

What? R u sure?

Oh yes, I am sure.  Because I am doing the work BioWare didn't and using my imagination.

I am also using the basic definitions of 'Code' and 'Breathing' which pretty much allow me to know what I said is true. Even if the author also should have known that when they wrote their nonsense.

Modifié par Kel Riever, 02 avril 2013 - 07:36 .

[I can Hackett]

 I'm not exactly full paragon I did all paragon choices and such but I wasn't afraid to use renegade interupts  and stuff but I still feel that destroy is a paragon action, look at it this way if you were in sheps shoes would you trust anything the catalyst says, what if control is a trap would shep actually still think like Shepard as a reaper too many ifs if u ask me destroy them and its all over and as far as the geth and edi are concerned the catalyst even says that we would have no problem fixing everything so we made the geth once we could bring them back again IMO 

Modifié par I can Hackett, 02 avril 2013 - 07:56 .