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Does Anyone feel hard done by?


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#26
Solica

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David Gaider wrote...

Mackey18 wrote...

 I feel like I've been tricked by Bioware! This has been by far my best gaming experience ever, and that's no understatement. However, at the end, all my hard work gets taken away from me. This is a post I made on another forum explaining what I mean.

"The only problem with the game now, is that you can't continue after you've completed it, you can't explore the world and see how you've put everything right. All you can do is play DLC. If any of you remember Fable: TLC then you will remember how at the end when you saved the world, you could explore the now cleansed world, listening to people praise you on all of your accomplishments. The feeling of completion and satisfaction you got was amazing, you felt as if you had accomplished something, and when the NPCs (that includes every single character, peasants, main characters e.t.c!!!!) praised you it was just amazing. If DA:O had this in it, it would probably be the best game of all time!! Even if I had to pay to do this, I would."

Please please please consider my post!

Thank you for your time,
Mike.


So... let me get this straight.

You played the game. You enjoyed it.

But because the story ended and you can't keep on playing the game you feel that we tricked you? Meaning that you feel we promised you these things and you were denied them? Or lured you into buying the game with the promise of wandering the lands after the story was done?

I'm just trying to understand the nature of the complaint, here. There are lots of people who apparently wish to go around re-visiting areas in the world after the game is over, apparently mssing the point that without any new content it wouldn't be the same game you fell in love with -- to which I suppose the only response is that there should have been new content, that we should have simply kept producing a world for them to interact with and immerse themselves in so they could reap the rewards of their labors. While I get the desire for such a thing (no matter the feasibility of it), I'm not sure where we reach the point of being deceptive about it.


Well, I haven't finished DA yet, so I don't know how it will feel. But we have had this discussion before (or at least similar), many years ago. What typically annoyed me with Bioware games, particularly BG series, was that I struggle for hours, fighting through deep dungeons, deeper and deeper, then I kill the bad guy... And, click, then an ending text, or later, KotOR etc, an end scene. I hate that. Simply hate that. It doesn't feel like having finished the game at all, despite that the text says so.
I want some minutes to relax and take it in. To at least loot the arch villain, and walk all the way back out of the deep dungeon. Out into the sun and birdsong, some final exchanges with partymembers... Then you can have the ending text, as the party walks down the road. I think that would do. Why not make the final quest to simply return to some place?
(again, mind you I don't know how DA ends. You may actually have done something clever. I don't know. I just hope you understand what I mean.)

Some games haven't actually finished, even as you've done the red thread. I'm of course thinking about Bethesda's games. There's more to do. That works fine too. Other games simply let the world be. No, nothing much have changed. So what? You've just come up from the dungeon. What could have changed? No darkspawn around, ofc. Is that so hard to manage? That works fine too. Sometimes there's a few quests left.

I understand that Bioware's games are not like that, and maybe can't be left in that state. I don't mind that the game ends. But abrupt endings is IMO an unsatisfactory thing.

#27
Mackey18

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 "Feel exactly the same mate, loved it on oblivion where i could run around and do all the side quests after the main story, i saved all my side quests untill after to do them only to find im confined to my camp site and the crappy excuse for DLC (yes i know there will be better ones to come but seriously i want to **** **** up while i wait for that not start all over again). "

Thank you

Modifié par Mackey18, 14 décembre 2009 - 11:34 .


#28
Mackey18

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See at least some people are agreeing with me, and the childish dev that edited my post, please grow up.

#29
Viglin

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Mackey18 wrote...

"Sigh, always sad to see when Dev replies to a thread thats knocking at parts of a game...while a lot more deserving threads go unanswered."

Is it so wrong to have a discussion on a forum? I'm hardly "knocking" the game considering that I think it is GOTY. Can no one have a descent discussion here or is everyone just trying to give hell to anyone who isn't praising the game with every sentence?


See my first reply.
Your asking for what isnt here...now.

GOTY contender..and yet you feel "hard done by"...interesting as certain Golem would say.

And my quote wasnt directed at you...but anyone whose been on forums for any length of time knows that the best way to get a Dev to reply is to "take a knock" at the game.

#30
Solica

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Mackey18 wrote...

The question is, do you prefer to stop when you feel you've completed the game or when the game thinks you've completed the game?


- Exactly! That's it.

#31
Mackey18

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"I know I cracked a joke earlier, but the OP is not out of line in what he wants (although I do think his delivery in the OP could have used some work). He just wants a bit of an Epilogue. While that's not something many may care about, I cannot fault him for wanting what he wants. "



I understand now that I did express my intentions pretty crapply.

#32
aries1001

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Isn't there an epilogue save? that lets you see how your actions did indeed affect the world of Ferelden.



If some of you remember the (very) old Might and Magic games, you could actually play after the story ended - though I never did. (maybe once, I think) Dragon Age is not a sandbox game; it is a story driven game where the game ends when the main quest ends. People want to play more after finishing the story? I can somehow understand that. I think DLC will still play if you have finished the main story? And user made mods maybe?




#33
Mackey18

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"And my quote wasnt directed at you...but anyone whose been on forums for any length of time knows that the best way to get a Dev to reply is to "take a knock" at the game."

I actually joined up 2 hours ago, just to make this post as people on my other forum told me to put it on here.

Modifié par Mackey18, 14 décembre 2009 - 11:39 .


#34
Dex1701

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Kalcalan wrote...

Dex1701 wrote...

What are some other RPGs that you can play after finishing the main quest besides Bethesda games?


Fallout 2 back in 1998 (it also included some special dialogue with one character and a message from the devs).

@the OP: when the story is over it's time to move on.

I know there are other games that allow you to continue playing after the MQ is completed, and yes, I played Fallout 2 back in 1998.  I was only trying to make the point that the vast majority of RPGs do not allow you to continue playing after the main quest is completed, and I therefore don't expect to be able to.  In most cases I don't even want to.  I'd rather just start a new character if I want to keep playing.

I understand the OP's desire to keep playing, but the fact that some games allow this certainly doesn't mean that all games should.  In fact, IMO most games are better off ending.

By the way, if people keep posting spoilers in the general forum I'm going to find a way to track you down and kick you in the shins.  This thread has already ruined a major plot point for me.  Thanks.  :pinched:

Modifié par Dex1701, 14 décembre 2009 - 11:39 .


#35
alex1233210

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aries1001 wrote...

Isn't there an epilogue save? that lets you see how your actions did indeed affect the world of Ferelden.

If some of you remember the (very) old Might and Magic games, you could actually play after the story ended - though I never did. (maybe once, I think) Dragon Age is not a sandbox game; it is a story driven game where the game ends when the main quest ends. People want to play more after finishing the story? I can somehow understand that. I think DLC will still play if you have finished the main story? And user made mods maybe?

if there is an epilogue save im yet to find it, you do get loads of text telling you how your actions effected the world...

#36
Titius.Vibius

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Ah you want your name immortalized and put into the annals of Ferelden history. If you paid attention to the ending, you are the hero and the people are phrasing your bravery until such time another hero does better. Look, the game is not an open world to explore so it defeats your proposal to continue beyond what you have achieved, perhaps a new DLC can remedy that.

#37
Drider-man

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Have you ever played a Bioware game that DID have an open-ended story where you could continue playing after completing the game?

What made you think this one would?

#38
alex1233210

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[/quote]
I know there are other games that allow you to continue playing after the MQ is completed, and yes, I played Fallout 2 back in 1998.  I was only trying to make the point that the vast majority of RPGs do not allow you to continue playing after the main quest is completed, and I therefore don't expect to be able to.  In most cases I don't even want to.  I'd rather just start a new character if I want to keep playing.

I understand the OP's desire to keep playing, but the fact that some games allow this certainly doesn't mean that all games should.  In fact, IMO most games are better off ending.

By the way, if people keep posting spoilers in the general forum I'm going to find a way to track you down and kick you in the shins.  This thread has already ruined a major plot point for me.  Thanks.  :pinched:

[/quote]
Just because most should end, doesnt mean this one should, imo it would be GOTY if i could carry on playing, unfortinatly AC2 took that spot!

#39
Viglin

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alex1233210 wrote...

aries1001 wrote...

Isn't there an epilogue save? that lets you see how your actions did indeed affect the world of Ferelden.

If some of you remember the (very) old Might and Magic games, you could actually play after the story ended - though I never did. (maybe once, I think) Dragon Age is not a sandbox game; it is a story driven game where the game ends when the main quest ends. People want to play more after finishing the story? I can somehow understand that. I think DLC will still play if you have finished the main story? And user made mods maybe?

if there is an epilogue save im yet to find it, you do get loads of text telling you how your actions effected the world...


After the credits are done/skipped, a new save is made...can tsay anymore being this is a non spoiler forum.

#40
Mackey18

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"Isn't there an epilogue save? that lets you see how your actions did indeed affect the world of Ferelden. "



Ye but you can only access you camp and DLC, nothing else.



"I understand the OP's desire to keep playing, but the fact that some games allow this certainly doesn't mean that all games should. In fact, IMO most games are better off ending."



Yes I agree there should be an end. But when the player choses it. After witnessing what you've done, and found all of you old companions [spoilers]except Morrigan, whose departure sets a sequal up perfectly.[/spoillers] e.t.c.

#41
Bryy_Miller

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Mackey18 wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Mackey18 wrote...

 I feel like I've been tricked by Bioware! This has been by far my best gaming experience ever, and that's no understatement. However, at the end, all my hard work gets taken away from me. This is a post I made on another forum explaining what I mean.

"The only problem with the game now, is that you can't continue after you've completed it, you can't explore the world and see how you've put everything right. All you can do is play DLC. If any of you remember Fable: TLC then you will remember how at the end when you saved the world, you could explore the now cleansed world, listening to people praise you on all of your accomplishments. The feeling of completion and satisfaction you got was amazing, you felt as if you had accomplished something, and when the NPCs (that includes every single character, peasants, main characters e.t.c!!!!) praised you it was just amazing. If DA:O had this in it, it would probably be the best game of all time!! Even if I had to pay to do this, I would."

Please please please consider my post!

Thank you for your time,
Mike.


So... let me get this straight.

You played the game. You enjoyed it.

But because the story ended and you can't keep on playing the game you feel that we tricked you? Meaning that you feel we promised you these things and you were denied them? Or lured you into buying the game with the promise of wandering the lands after the story was done?

I'm just trying to understand the nature of the complaint, here. There are lots of people who apparently wish to go around re-visiting areas in the world after the game is over, apparently mssing the point that without any new content it wouldn't be the same game you fell in love with -- to which I suppose the only response is that there should have been new content, that we should have simply kept producing a world for them to interact with and immerse themselves in so they could reap the rewards of their labors. While I get the desire for such a thing (no matter the feasibility of it), I'm not sure where we reach the point of being deceptive about it.


Whoah Whoah whoah it's not a complaint it's a point. " I feel like I've been tricked by Bioware!" maybe this was put badly. Don't get me wrong, it was definitely my GOTY, but I just wanted, like I said, to see my impact on the world. " Meaning that you feel we promised you these things and you were denied them?" No I did not say that, but my character has gone to waste. 40 hours of gameplay can't be used until the holiday period when the new content comes out. Don't you see my point even if I did put it badly?


Dude.
Gaider responded to you. He did "get" your point. 

A developer responded to you. Yet you still persist. Don't you see how lame that is? You're only ruining your credibility with every new post past Gaider's response. They are not going to add a paradigm shifty-type gameplay feature just because you feel like it should be Fallout 3.

Modifié par Bryy_Miller, 14 décembre 2009 - 11:45 .


#42
Oliver Sudden

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I get the OP's complaint.



The same thing happens to me when I finish a book I loved. It's what makes them special for me, too, and I wouldn't want it any other way.

#43
Mackey18

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"perhaps a new DLC can remedy that."



Yes as I said in the original post I would be more than happy to accept that.



Oh and by the way everyone, I have never played a Bioware game before, this is my first.

#44
Mackey18

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"The same thing happens to me when I finish a book I loved. It's what makes them special for me, too, and I wouldn't want it any other way."



Yup happened to me when I finished Brsingr, didn't read another book for weeks.

#45
JaegerBane

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I have to admit I've never really understood this ego-tastic desire of being able to walk around the world, once all the quests are done, the monsters are slain, the loot has been bought and girl been boned. I mean, it's not like including the feature would have been a huge effort but, frankly, the whole thing sounds redundant.



I mean, why is the fact the game has an ending - a definite, line-drawn-underneath conclusion - mean that you feel hard done by?

#46
Mackey18

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"You're only ruining your credibility with every new post past Gaider's response. They are not going to add a paradigm shifty-type gameplay feature just because you feel like it should be Fallout 3."

I'm sorry, to hear this, I'm not trying to act like a nob, but from the first post people were out to get me, what am I meant to do? And I am grateful for the devs reply, but I didn't feel as though he understood what I was getting at like some other people have.

Modifié par Mackey18, 14 décembre 2009 - 11:51 .


#47
Dex1701

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alex1233210 wrote...
Just because most should end, doesnt mean this one should, imo it would be GOTY if i could carry on playing, unfortinatly AC2 took that spot!

From what I've seen of the game so far it 100% seems like the kind of game that should end to me.  I'm not there yet, but I doubt I'll change my mind.  I guess I just disagree.  Hey, at least you have AC2, though, right?

Mackey18 wrote...

"Isn't there an epilogue save? that lets you see how your actions did indeed affect the world of Ferelden. "

Ye but you can only access you camp and DLC, nothing else.

"I
understand the OP's desire to keep playing, but the fact that some
games allow this certainly doesn't mean that all games should. In fact,
IMO most games are better off ending."

Yes I agree there should
be an end. But when the player choses it. After witnessing what you've
done, and found all of you old companions [spoilers]except Morrigan,
whose departure sets a sequal up perfectly.[/spoillers] e.t.c.

OMG.  What part of "no spoilers in the general section" do you not understand?  Seriously.  Not cool.

Modifié par Dex1701, 14 décembre 2009 - 11:52 .


#48
Bryy_Miller

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Mackey18 wrote...

"You're only ruining your credibility with every new post past Gaider's response. They are not going to add a paradigm shifty-type gameplay feature just because you feel like it should be Fallout 3."

I'm sorry, to hear this, I'm not trying to act like a nob, but from the first post people were out to get me, what am I meant to do? And I am grateful for the devs reply, but I didn't feel as though he understood what I was getting at like some other people have.


He was in on the development process. He not only makes games but RPGs. To imply that he didn't know what you were talking about is extremely patronizing. Especially when one of his last sentences directly addressed what you were talking about.

#49
bjdbwea

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No need to continue playing after the ending sequence. My main complaint would be that the ending/epilogues were obviously rushed. A much more satisfying ending would have been possible with little additional effort.

#50
Mackey18

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Right I've had enough for one day, you guys have won, even though some people understood me, the ones that didn't will just think I'm scrutinising the game, sorry if you think that. But as someone said, with every post I look more and more like a dick. So i'm gone. Yes the original post was pretty poor as someone else pointed out, but I thought that people would be more co operative. My mistake. Good night everyone.