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What do you want in DA3(if you were to late too post on the Bioware's topic like me)


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#1
InfinitePaths

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 So i am a big DA fan,i loved DAO and DA2,but i didn't quite make it to say what i want in DA3 on the offical Bioware's topic.If you also haven't had the chance to post your wish for DA3 post here please.

What i want to see:

-Isabella coming back as a companion,or at least as a cameo,i just loved her as a companion.She is my favourite companion in the DA universe and in all RPGs.

-Morrigan,Leli,Alistar,Sten,Varric,Anders coming as cameos,at least a 15 min side quest that you can do with them like in ME3 with  Miranda,Samara...

-Orlais,Kirkwall,Tevinter,Rivani,Ferelden

-Some laid back funny companions like Varric and Isabella to make you laugh no matter the bad situation

-Plot-a mixture of DA2 and DAO but with new places and charethers,i loved both games and i beleve i will like the third if Bioware continues their good work.

-I want to find out what is with Flemeth,Sandal,and that lyrium

-Many sides quests,but also a long main story

-Many shops and charethers you can talk to

-humor,i loved the humor in both DAO and especialy in DA2 :D

-Complicated story that gets better and better over the years(like in DA2) and around the big map(like in DAO).

-Combat system i loved Origins combat system,i was amazed how great was DA2 combat(i liked it more than origins).I just want them to continue with the old system not putting something skyrim like.

-Deep companions with complicated stories and personalities(like in DAO and DA2).I liked how in DA2 the companions stories developed over the years :D

Thats about it,i really hope that bioware reads this :P

Modifié par HeriocGreyWarden, 27 juin 2012 - 12:14 .


#2
TonberryFeye

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I want nothing in DA3 to remind me of DA2.

As time goes on, I find myself looking forward to DA3 less and less. I think within six months or so my official stance will be "the series is dead to me, I'm just not going to care anymore."

That really is how much I hated DA2, and the more I see and hear from Bioware the more I'm convinced that they are just sat around in their offices trying to reuse DA2's engine, conversation system, graphics and combat mechanics.

I'm too used to being lied to by PR people to swallow their promises of "more freedom of choice" and "meaningful choices." When they're open, they're saying all the wrong things - the OGB isn't important / not going to be a big part of the plot. The Dialog Wheel is a great idea and we want to keep it. We want a character like Hawke to be the lead in DA3. We're actually going to carry on DA2's storyline despite the fact the game sucked like a cheap Antivan ****.

What I want is Dragon Age 2 as it should have been.

#3
EricHVela

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I want more that just one more Dragon Age game. There are a lot of protagonists all over Thedas to explore.

I want them to be unbound from the limits of pulling in tons of decisions from other Dragon Age games. They could run the timelines in parallel to each other (or at least, overlapping the timelines like Dragon Age: Kirkwall did to Dragon Age: Origins). That way, the effects of one Dragon Age game won't limit the possible events in another until some grand finale ties them all together (maybe in its own finale trilogy).

EDIT: Too many grammar mistakes for my OCD to let slide.

Modifié par ReggarBlane, 28 juin 2012 - 04:42 .


#4
InfinitePaths

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TonberryFeye wrote...

I want nothing in DA3 to remind me of DA2.

As time goes on, I find myself looking forward to DA3 less and less. I think within six months or so my official stance will be "the series is dead to me, I'm just not going to care anymore."

That really is how much I hated DA2, and the more I see and hear from Bioware the more I'm convinced that they are just sat around in their offices trying to reuse DA2's engine, conversation system, graphics and combat mechanics.

I'm too used to being lied to by PR people to swallow their promises of "more freedom of choice" and "meaningful choices." When they're open, they're saying all the wrong things - the OGB isn't important / not going to be a big part of the plot. The Dialog Wheel is a great idea and we want to keep it. We want a character like Hawke to be the lead in DA3. We're actually going to carry on DA2's storyline despite the fact the game sucked like a cheap Antivan ****.

What I want is Dragon Age 2 as it should have been.


Bioware tries very hard to please all of the fans,the DAO fans and the DA2 fans.They are listening to our ides and implementing them into DA3,they even gave up on some rly cool ides cuz the fans said they were not good.While Bioware is trying very hard to make an excellendgame for all of us(both DAO and DA2 fans) , the community is just trashing Bioware and their decisions instead of supporting them for the effort they put to please all of us.Bravo,we have an excellent fanbase instead of supporting our favourite game company,let's make them feel like trash.GJ community.

PS.
Ofc they are going to carry on DA2 storyline,becouse it is a DA game whose story isn't finished yet,what should they do?Make DA3 like DA2 never happen.That would ****** of DA2 fans.If Bioware doesn't do that it would ****** of DAO fans like you.So bioware is rly having a hard time with this crappy community of ours.Why don't you support them 4 a change.

#5
TonberryFeye

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HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

Bioware tries very hard to please all of the fans,the DAO fans and the DA2 fans.They are listening to our ides and implementing them into DA3,they even gave up on some rly cool ides cuz the fans said they were not good.While Bioware is trying very hard to make an excellendgame for all of us(both DAO and DA2 fans) , the community is just trashing Bioware and their decisions instead of supporting them for the effort they put to please all of us.Bravo,we have an excellent fanbase instead of supporting our favourite game company,let's make them feel like trash.GJ community.

PS.
Ofc they are going to carry on DA2 storyline,becouse it is a DA game whose story isn't finished yet,what should they do?Make DA3 like DA2 never happen.That would ****** of DA2 fans.If Bioware doesn't do that it would ****** of DAO fans like you.So bioware is rly having a hard time with this crappy community of ours.Why don't you support them 4 a change.

This attitude summarises what is wrong with so many things in the world...

We, collectively, are customers. We are not required to be loyal to a brand. Indeed, we should be actively against brand loyalty and seek to jump ship at every opportunity. Why? Because if you turn around to a company and say "give me a reason not to leave," they have two choices: give a reason, or lose your custom.

That is a very good thing to have happen. Let's imagine I go into a store and buy a bottle of fizzy drink. Say I bought it because it had a unique flavour, and the company decides they want to 'take their product in a new direction'. I don't want that, so I stop buying the product.

You would not, in that circumstance, be telling me to 'give the fizzy drink makers a break'. They changed their product, I don't like the flavour, I'm leaving.

Bioware have changed their flavour. Bioware produced DA2 that, compared to the original, is a vastly inferior product. Bioware is doing sod-all to assure people they intend to go back to a winning formula. They insist on making another 'Hawke style' protagonist, use an irritating and immersion-breaking dialog wheel, carry over a linear and overblown half-arsed plot from DA2 that should have been over and done in a single act, and their only winning card is a god-damn cliffhanger - "ooh! Leliana is looking for Hawke and the Warden!" The only reason I don't simply walk away is because no other company can produce Dragon Age games, and thus no other company can produce a proper sequel to Origins. At best, I can go and try and find a totally different series I enjoy as much as Origins, but it's hard to find titles like that.

At this point, Bioware clearly intends Dragon Age 3 to sell well because of its brand name, not because they have confidence it'll be a great title. When you screw up, you're meant to learn from your mistakes, not repeat them with a bugger budget! If they want people like me to get behind them, then they need to stop giving us EA's pre-approved speal and start giving proof they intend to deliver what we want.

Modifié par TonberryFeye, 29 juin 2012 - 01:56 .


#6
InfinitePaths

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Modifié par HeriocGreyWarden, 29 juin 2012 - 06:14 .


#7
InfinitePaths

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HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

TonberryFeye wrote...

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

Bioware tries very hard to please all of the fans,the DAO fans and the DA2 fans.They are listening to our ides and implementing them into DA3,they even gave up on some rly cool ides cuz the fans said they were not good.While Bioware is trying very hard to make an excellendgame for all of us(both DAO and DA2 fans) , the community is just trashing Bioware and their decisions instead of supporting them for the effort they put to please all of us.Bravo,we have an excellent fanbase instead of supporting our favourite game company,let's make them feel like trash.GJ community.

PS.
Ofc they are going to carry on DA2 storyline,becouse it is a DA game whose story isn't finished yet,what should they do?Make DA3 like DA2 never happen.That would ****** of DA2 fans.If Bioware doesn't do that it would ****** of DAO fans like you.So bioware is rly having a hard time with this crappy community of ours.Why don't you support them 4 a change.

This attitude summarises what is wrong with so many things in the world...

We, collectively, are customers. We are not required to be loyal to a brand. Indeed, we should be actively against brand loyalty and seek to jump ship at every opportunity. Why? Because if you turn around to a company and say "give me a reason not to leave," they have two choices: give a reason, or lose your custom.


That is a very good thing to have happen. Let's imagine I go into a store and buy a bottle of fizzy drink. Say I bought it because it had a unique flavour, and the company decides they want to 'take their product in a new direction'. I don't want that, so I stop buying the product.

You would not, in that circumstance, be telling me to 'give the fizzy drink makers a break'. They changed their product, I don't like the flavour, I'm leaving.

Bioware have changed their flavour. Bioware produced DA2 that, compared to the original, is a vastly inferior product. Bioware is doing sod-all to assure people they intend to go back to a winning formula. They insist on making another 'Hawke style' protagonist, use an irritating and immersion-breaking dialog wheel, carry over a linear and overblown half-arsed plot from DA2 that should have been over and done in a single act, and their only winning card is a god-damn cliffhanger - "ooh! Leliana is looking for Hawke and the Warden!" The only reason I don't simply walk away is because no other company can produce Dragon Age games, and thus no other company can produce a proper sequel to Origins. At best, I can go and try and find a totally different series I enjoy as much as Origins, but it's hard to find titles like that.

At this point, Bioware clearly intends Dragon Age 3 to sell well because of its brand name, not because they have confidence it'll be a great title. When you screw up, you're meant to learn from your mistakes, not repeat them with a bugger budget! If they want people like me to get behind them, then they need to stop giving us EA's pre-approved speal and start giving proof they intend to deliver what we want.


You are wrong.Lets say bioware makes a water with a new flavor(DA2) 70% of the old flavor fans(DAO) don't like it over the old flavor and 30% like it more than the old flavor.But also the new flavor brings more fans worth 20% of the current fans.That means that 50% of bioware fans like the old water better(DAO) and 50% the new one(DA2).So Bioware is trying very hard to make a water that all of the fans will like(both DAO and DA2 fans).And then becouse the community is too stupid to agree to compromises,the entire community starts sayin bad thing to Bioware just becouse they try to create a water that everybodey likes.

Now back to non-methaphoric DA2 story

It is your opinion that the story sucks.But actually at least 90%of DA fans think that DA2 is bad becouse of the reused enviroment,and low costumization,little choices.But almost everybodey likes the DA2 story.SPOILERS!

I will tell from an objective view why is it a good story.

Prologe-you and your family are  escaping Ferelden from the blith who destroyed your home,you are taking care of your family and get the epic feeling of being responisble for your family,and fighting for it.You also meat A templar and his wife aveline.The templar causes problems to Bethany the apostate making the plot thick.Then an Ogre kills your brother and sister making it even more dramatic.The templar also dies leaving his wife in pain.The only way that you can save yours and your families life is to side with Flemeth,the **** of dragon age,and you do so seeking a new future for you and your familiy in the city of Kirkwall.

Now this is a good start full of drama and interesting plot,you learn everything you need to know so you can understand what's happening in ACT 1.

Act 1-I cloud write about act1-act 3 like 10 pages(about the mages,qunari,companions,Flemeth,deep,roads...).but i'll try to sum it down,basicly your to save you,Aveline and your family you must enter Kirkwall,so your only option is to live in Lowtown and work in the underworld.That is a great risk,but you have to do it 4 your family.In the act you are said your main gold is to get the money for the deep roads,but actually the main porpose of this act is to feed you information(about mages,abominations,qunari,qunari mages...) and make you take morals about stuff(like templar vs mage) that you will need in act 2 and act 3,this is very good,that the story developes over the years,and this way it starts in act 1 and it gets hotter and hotter over the years.You also get close to your companions who have the deepest stories of all RPG's to this date IMO + all of the companions have their imortant impact on the story.And you get the prophecy from Flemeth that you will rise to Power AND IT GETS THE STORY FROM ORIGINS GET CONTINUED IN DA by saving Flemeth, one of  the main chars of DAO.The act ends with the expedition where you get rich but your brother/Sister becomes grey warden/templar/circle mage/dead.And you find the mysterius lyrium artifact.

Now this act is great,becouse you get emmersed into the deep stroy that developes over the years,get awesome companions,story from DAO procceded to the next DA games,cameos and more emotional drama(good story)

Act II-i'll make this one reeall short-You get rly close with your companions do important stuff for them,get a romance,get rich,you feel how you advance over the years in many ways,get involved more with the mages/templar dilema and most importantly your main quest is about the qunari and trough deep,satisfiying and fun story you become ''The champion''.

Act III-most disapoiting act,i wish it had been more polished.but stiil you finish your romances and friends with your companions,get into some boring side quests which only pourpose is for you to get good armor and weps.But there's still a great main quest with the mages amd the templars.And it ends in an epic Climax with ****ing stautes becoming alive and the ****ing chantry blowing up :D.Then you get a cliffhanger that is obviusly going to be explained in DA3.+ MOTA ruled and improved in every single thing in DA2.It was awesome,you shlod try it.

So the story was quite satisfying i don't know what do you think is so bad about it.





#8
Pasquale1234

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HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

You are wrong.Lets say bioware makes a water with a new flavor(DA2) 70% of the old flavor fans(DAO) don't like it over the old flavor and 30% like it more than the old flavor.But also the new flavor brings more fans worth 20% of the current fans.That means that 50% of bioware fans like the old water better(DAO) and 50% the new one(DA2).So Bioware is trying very hard to make a water that all of the fans will like(both DAO and DA2 fans).And then becouse the community is too stupid to agree to compromises,the entire community starts sayin bad thing to Bioware just becouse they try to create a water that everybodey likes.


Nice try, but your analogy has some glaring errors.

Let's try this one instead:  You create a new drink with a very unique combination of flavors including cherry and vanilla.  That product is ranked very high, critically acclaimed, wins awards, and sells more than any other product you've ever built.  It is generally regarded as an instant classic.

But you want even moar customers, so you remove the cherry and vanilla and add lemon and lime instead.  That product is heavily criticized and sells only half as much.  Of those who did purchase the product, they are now (mostly) divided between those who like the lemon and lime and those who detest it, and want the cherry and vanilla to return.  There are also some customers who liked both versions.

Then you respond to unhappy customers by saying that the cherry and vanilla flavor will not be coming back, but we will try to sweeten up the lemon and lime a bit if that will make it easier for some of you to swallow.

I also disagree with your statements saying:  "But actually at least 90%of DA fans think that DA2 is bad becouse of the
reused enviroment,and low costumization,little choices.But almost
everybodey likes the DA2 story"

I've seen the story panned a lot on these forums.

Personally, I didn't care much for the story, but it is not my biggest issue with DA2.  I am much more concerned about other gameplay features and PC presentation, as those are the factors that primarily affect my enjoyment (or not) of the game.

#9
TonberryFeye

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Alright, let's just take everything you've said and tear it to pieces as utter garbage. I apologise in advance for the wall of text, but it is unavoidable.

There is an old saying; "if you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no-one." Dragon Age 2 was a crap game on so many levels, even to an individual like myself.
The Dragon Age fan in me felt cheated because it was totally different thematically to Origins - it was not, in fact, a Dragon Age game.
The RPG player in me got sick of their efforts to make it an action hack-n-slash.
The hack-n-slasher in me had to sit through too much RPG.

That's not even touching on the bad design that goes across genre - the copy-pasting of levels, the disjointed character behaviour, the interpersonal mechanics that assumed you were either too young, or too socially inept to understand how to foster a relationship with someone without being told "This is how you be nice. This is how you hurt their feelings. This is how you flirt."

Another addage is "Cheap, Well, Quickly - pick two." DA2 was clearly done using the former and the latter - it feels cheap and unfinished. It is an insult to the medium as a whole to call Dragon Age a good game; it is, at best, mediocre. Mediocrity is not something to be proud of; it's just a nice way of saying you didn't screw up as badly as you could potentially have.

Now, onto your analysis of the game and its structure.

PROLOGUE: Four characters we do not know are running away from albino umpa-lumpas, whom they seem to think are Darkspawn. They are not Darkspawn; Darkspawn look intimidating.
You encounter Aveline and her Templar husband. The Templar decides that this is a good time to start quoting scripture as opposed to, say, RUNNING FOR HIS THRONE-DAMNED LIFE! You can then choose to complete IGNORE his threats and pretend they never happened, in which case everyone carries on as though they didn't. In fact, everyone carries on as though they didn't happen if you DO react.
This will become a running theme of the entire game; whatever choice you make is irrelevant, because Bioware has decided the story is going to go this way whether you want it to or not.
A few battles later, we have a mini-boss in the form of an Ogre. The sibling who is no-longer required dies, and we don't care (especially if it's the boy) because we know barely anything about them.
Then Flemeth casts Deus Ex Machina and we wind up in Kirkwall. What better way to make a player feel as though he is accomplishing something than to have a DRAGON swoop in and kill all his enemies, dump some random nonesense in his lap, kill off yet another character we don't care about and then teleport us to somewhere else? Truly, Bioware are masters of narrative!

That was what we call 'sarcasm'. You will likely find more of it as we progress.

ACT I: This is known officially as "the Act of Dicking About." The ENTIRE plot summary for this act is "we need money to go down a hole." I wish that was a euphamism; DA2 would have been a far more entertaining game if it was.
Our first port of call is to assemble the Avengers. Varric joins us because we apparently did a lot of amazing things off-camera which were so exciting Bioware feared we would die of a heart attack if we actually played them. That, or slit our wrists from boredom. I suspect the former, given how the rest of the game is going to play out.
We then go on a grand quest to find fifty gold sovereigns. This is achieved by completing Side Quests, which have nothing to do with the main plot whatsoever, and Main Quests, which usually have nothing to do with the main plot whatsoever.
Whilst you're running through the same three areas a dozen times, you will likely notice that nobody seems to be aware of that whole 'Blight' thing that threatened to wipe out all of Thedas. That's because Dragon Age: Origins took place during that "too exciting / fething dull to play" bit, and so everyone carries on like it never happened. Way to make us feel connected to Origins, Bioware!
Eventually, after wasting many hours of your life, you wind up with lots of coins, a rag-tag bunch of characters (some of whom I admit have some good lines) and it's time to crawl down that hole. Spoiler alert - you're about to lose a party member! I sure hope you aren't relying on Bethany to be your primary healer, or The Boy to be your main damage-dealer, because you won't have them after this!
We go down, we get betrayed, we fight monsters we've never seen before (and never will again, oddly) and we come back rich as kings...

ACT II: Three years have passed, and I have nothing to show for it.
Despite supposedly earning enough money to buy half of High Town, my bank account remains what it was when we left. So does my armoury. My allies, despite having come with me, are still in whatever dank squat they were in when we departed. Doesn't that tell you everything you need to know about Hawke? "Hey Merril! I'm living in a mansion I bought with my beer money! How's life in the slum treating you?"
Act 2 does better than Act 1 in that it has a plot - the Qunari are getting restless, everyone is afraid of them, and the Viscount would like it very much if they didn't start murdering people. Only Hawke can possibly help because, despite only meeting the guy once, the Arishok believes Hawke is damn awesome. He must be a member of Bioware's development team, because there's no other reason for him to respect our protagonist.
The main advantage the Qunari bring is a change of opposition. Sadly, you'll still spend a lot of this act (and the rest of the game) fighting the same generic undead, daemons, insane mages and generic bandits you always do.
At least Origins had the decency to spice things up a bit. "Circle of Magi? Abominations, demons and the odd blood-mage. Brecillian forest? Lots of wild animals, werewolves and the undead! Orzammar? Angry Dwarfs and angrier Darkspawn! Haven? Dragon worshippers and dragons galore!" Clearly, Kirkwall doesn't matter enough to apply any variation to what we face; it's the same enemies over and over and over again,
Best of all, Act 2 poses a question for the player to ask: "Why am I doing this?"
The answer is "Because Bioware said so." You may be rich, but you're not a landowner. You're not an arl, a teyrn or any other leader of men. You hold no political office and no military rank. You don't even a job in Kirkwall; you've just been living off what you stole from the Deep Roads!
This is the biggest issue with the game at this point. If this were a pen and paper RPG, I could at this point have turned to the DM and said "Dude, I have enough gold to rebuild Lothering at this point! Why do I have to stay here?"
But, as I said, the answer is "Because I say so." You are going to be the hero of Kirkwall because you are going to be the hero of Kirkwall, and no matter how hard you try to derail the plot, Dragon Age 2 will force you to save the day despite any actual motive being present on your part.
In due course, the most interesting characters in DA2 - the Qunari - will be dead and gone and you are the Champion of Kirkwall. At least, Hawke has a job!

ACT III - The Act of We No-Longer Care.
We are told that three years have passed, and that Meredith and Orsino have been at each other's throats the whole time. It's a good thing we are told this via clunky exposition, because I sure as hell wasn't seeing it by actually playing the game!
A conversation opportunity arises, and it's time to pick a side. Yes, no matter how you've behaved thus far, the side you're on for the final battle appears to hinge solely on two petulent man-children having a tantrum in public, and which of them you choose to shout at.
Permit me a slow clap for Bioware's continued literary brilliance. *clap.       clap.       clap.*
The rest of the act will be spent resolving the Mage-Templar war. Allow me to save you some time - the Mages Win. Whatever side you pick, for whatever reason, the Mages Win. Anders will ask you to help him blow up the Chantry, and if you refuse he will blow it up anyway. The Templars will ask you to help them slaughter the Mages, and if you do you become a hero to the Mages anyway, because it seems the Circle of Magi find nothing more inspiring than the story of a freelance lunatic who butchered an entire Circle and drove the First Enchanter to Blood Magic in a desperate bid for survival.
Best of all... it's a cliffhanger! Yes, Dragon Age 2 was so terrible that Bioware had to pull the Cliffhanger Card - "We'll give you an exciting plot development later, because we don't have one now!" Cliffhanger endings are a sign of bad writing. They're a good way to end a chapter of a story because on the very next page we find out what happens. When we have to wait years to find out (assuming the damn sequel isn't killed whilst it's still a foetus) it's just insulting. They have so little confidence in the game they've made they honestly don't think we'd want to buy Dragon Age 3 if they didn't dangle that stupid little "Look! Leliana's a member of a weird new cult of Chantry Ninjas!" in front of our faces. Sorry, Bioware, but I'm not willing to bite.

So there you have it. Dragon Age 2 is a story about characters we don't care about, Deus Ex Machina'd into a location they have no reason to care about, dragged into a conflict they have no motive to be a part of, and then given an ending that ignores what actually happened.

By far, this is one of the most spectacular screwups I've ever seen; it is best played in the same light as you would gawp at a car accident - you do it not to be entertained, but because you're morbidly curious as to just how horrific the accident really was.

Modifié par TonberryFeye, 29 juin 2012 - 07:08 .


#10
Realmzmaster

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What of those who like the new flavor (DA2) and have grown tired of the old flavor (DAO). If DA3 goes back to the old flavor I guess we who like the new flavor will have to take our money and find a company that will give us a Bioware type story with the favor we want.

I guess Bioware/EA will not need our money and will be able to attract other gamers to take our place. Like the others who have chimed in flavor of the old favor I will not spend money on a flavor I do not want. I may consider a new flavor that is different.

I think I would like to see turn based combat based on initiative.
Regenerating health and mana that regenerates over time not immediately after battle.
Do not waste money on character model creation. Let gamers pick a portrait for their character from a available group or let them import a portrait.
No voice acting. All information is conveyed through text. Only battle cries are allowed.
Multiple races for the PC.
If I can have it I want full party creation and customization.
Party members can actually die in combat (perma-death)
Random encounters that are truly random.
Skip the romances. Not really necessary in a hero's journey narrative.
Institute a reputation system where the shop keepers and other react to the party based on the PC's rep.
If caught stealing in a person's home punishment is swift and sure. The guards hunt the party.

I could think of ours but that will do for now.

#11
Emzamination

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I want a permanent protagonist if the DA team keep insisting on leave stories half cooked by canceling dlc and moving on to new installments before the current protag has had its full run

I want more reaction to my class and faction.For instance if I'm rp'ing a char with a templar specialization, I want mage npcs or characters to recognize this and react according.If I'm working for the chantry I want mage rebels to react to that accordingly as well.

I want Da3 to take place over the course of years so I can see my char grow older & wiser, just not in acts.

I want everyone to be romancable again like it was in Da2.

I want more Isabella and morrigan.The new companions haven't been shown or announced yet but they'll have some pretty big bras to fill. Posted Image

#12
Pasquale1234

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Realmzmaster wrote...

What of those who like the new flavor (DA2) and have grown tired of the old flavor (DAO). If DA3 goes back to the old flavor I guess we who like the new flavor will have to take our money and find a company that will give us a Bioware type story with the favor we want.

I guess Bioware/EA will not need our money and will be able to attract other gamers to take our place. Like the others who have chimed in flavor of the old favor I will not spend money on a flavor I do not want. I may consider a new flavor that is different.


That sounds a little strange coming from someone who has been a cheerleader for the changes... but if you're serious, please let me know what other titles you come across.  I would be very interested.

I think I would like to see turn based combat based on initiative.
Regenerating health and mana that regenerates over time not immediately after battle.
Do not waste money on character model creation. Let gamers pick a portrait for their character from a available group or let them import a portrait.
No voice acting. All information is conveyed through text. Only battle cries are allowed.
Multiple races for the PC.
If I can have it I want full party creation and customization.
Party members can actually die in combat (perma-death)
Random encounters that are truly random.
Skip the romances. Not really necessary in a hero's journey narrative.
Institute a reputation system where the shop keepers and other react to the party based on the PC's rep.
If caught stealing in a person's home punishment is swift and sure. The guards hunt the party.

I could think of ours but that will do for now.


Works for me - but I would add one caveat.  Set this formula with a brand new IP (or resurrect an older one, like BG), so that customers will know what to expect with that IP.  Cuz, you know, making massive changes to the formula of an already successful and popular franchise would be foolish.

#13
InfinitePaths

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TonberryFeye wrote...

Alright, let's just take everything you've said and tear it to pieces as utter garbage. I apologise in advance for the wall of text, but it is unavoidable.

There is an old saying; "if you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing no-one." Dragon Age 2 was a crap game on so many levels, even to an individual like myself.
The Dragon Age fan in me felt cheated because it was totally different thematically to Origins - it was not, in fact, a Dragon Age game.
The RPG player in me got sick of their efforts to make it an action hack-n-slash.
The hack-n-slasher in me had to sit through too much RPG.

That's not even touching on the bad design that goes across genre - the copy-pasting of levels, the disjointed character behaviour, the interpersonal mechanics that assumed you were either too young, or too socially inept to understand how to foster a relationship with someone without being told "This is how you be nice. This is how you hurt their feelings. This is how you flirt."

Another addage is "Cheap, Well, Quickly - pick two." DA2 was clearly done using the former and the latter - it feels cheap and unfinished. It is an insult to the medium as a whole to call Dragon Age a good game; it is, at best, mediocre. Mediocrity is not something to be proud of; it's just a nice way of saying you didn't screw up as badly as you could potentially have.

Now, onto your analysis of the game and its structure.

PROLOGUE: Four characters we do not know are running away from albino umpa-lumpas, whom they seem to think are Darkspawn. They are not Darkspawn; Darkspawn look intimidating.
You encounter Aveline and her Templar husband. The Templar decides that this is a good time to start quoting scripture as opposed to, say, RUNNING FOR HIS THRONE-DAMNED LIFE! You can then choose to complete IGNORE his threats and pretend they never happened, in which case everyone carries on as though they didn't. In fact, everyone carries on as though they didn't happen if you DO react.
This will become a running theme of the entire game; whatever choice you make is irrelevant, because Bioware has decided the story is going to go this way whether you want it to or not.
A few battles later, we have a mini-boss in the form of an Ogre. The sibling who is no-longer required dies, and we don't care (especially if it's the boy) because we know barely anything about them.
Then Flemeth casts Deus Ex Machina and we wind up in Kirkwall. What better way to make a player feel as though he is accomplishing something than to have a DRAGON swoop in and kill all his enemies, dump some random nonesense in his lap, kill off yet another character we don't care about and then teleport us to somewhere else? Truly, Bioware are masters of narrative!

That was what we call 'sarcasm'. You will likely find more of it as we progress.

ACT I: This is known officially as "the Act of Dicking About." The ENTIRE plot summary for this act is "we need money to go down a hole." I wish that was a euphamism; DA2 would have been a far more entertaining game if it was.
Our first port of call is to assemble the Avengers. Varric joins us because we apparently did a lot of amazing things off-camera which were so exciting Bioware feared we would die of a heart attack if we actually played them. That, or slit our wrists from boredom. I suspect the former, given how the rest of the game is going to play out.
We then go on a grand quest to find fifty gold sovereigns. This is achieved by completing Side Quests, which have nothing to do with the main plot whatsoever, and Main Quests, which usually have nothing to do with the main plot whatsoever.
Whilst you're running through the same three areas a dozen times, you will likely notice that nobody seems to be aware of that whole 'Blight' thing that threatened to wipe out all of Thedas. That's because Dragon Age: Origins took place during that "too exciting / fething dull to play" bit, and so everyone carries on like it never happened. Way to make us feel connected to Origins, Bioware!
Eventually, after wasting many hours of your life, you wind up with lots of coins, a rag-tag bunch of characters (some of whom I admit have some good lines) and it's time to crawl down that hole. Spoiler alert - you're about to lose a party member! I sure hope you aren't relying on Bethany to be your primary healer, or The Boy to be your main damage-dealer, because you won't have them after this!
We go down, we get betrayed, we fight monsters we've never seen before (and never will again, oddly) and we come back rich as kings...

ACT II: Three years have passed, and I have nothing to show for it.
Despite supposedly earning enough money to buy half of High Town, my bank account remains what it was when we left. So does my armoury. My allies, despite having come with me, are still in whatever dank squat they were in when we departed. Doesn't that tell you everything you need to know about Hawke? "Hey Merril! I'm living in a mansion I bought with my beer money! How's life in the slum treating you?"
Act 2 does better than Act 1 in that it has a plot - the Qunari are getting restless, everyone is afraid of them, and the Viscount would like it very much if they didn't start murdering people. Only Hawke can possibly help because, despite only meeting the guy once, the Arishok believes Hawke is damn awesome. He must be a member of Bioware's development team, because there's no other reason for him to respect our protagonist.
The main advantage the Qunari bring is a change of opposition. Sadly, you'll still spend a lot of this act (and the rest of the game) fighting the same generic undead, daemons, insane mages and generic bandits you always do.
At least Origins had the decency to spice things up a bit. "Circle of Magi? Abominations, demons and the odd blood-mage. Brecillian forest? Lots of wild animals, werewolves and the undead! Orzammar? Angry Dwarfs and angrier Darkspawn! Haven? Dragon worshippers and dragons galore!" Clearly, Kirkwall doesn't matter enough to apply any variation to what we face; it's the same enemies over and over and over again,
Best of all, Act 2 poses a question for the player to ask: "Why am I doing this?"
The answer is "Because Bioware said so." You may be rich, but you're not a landowner. You're not an arl, a teyrn or any other leader of men. You hold no political office and no military rank. You don't even a job in Kirkwall; you've just been living off what you stole from the Deep Roads!
This is the biggest issue with the game at this point. If this were a pen and paper RPG, I could at this point have turned to the DM and said "Dude, I have enough gold to rebuild Lothering at this point! Why do I have to stay here?"
But, as I said, the answer is "Because I say so." You are going to be the hero of Kirkwall because you are going to be the hero of Kirkwall, and no matter how hard you try to derail the plot, Dragon Age 2 will force you to save the day despite any actual motive being present on your part.
In due course, the most interesting characters in DA2 - the Qunari - will be dead and gone and you are the Champion of Kirkwall. At least, Hawke has a job!

ACT III - The Act of We No-Longer Care.
We are told that three years have passed, and that Meredith and Orsino have been at each other's throats the whole time. It's a good thing we are told this via clunky exposition, because I sure as hell wasn't seeing it by actually playing the game!
A conversation opportunity arises, and it's time to pick a side. Yes, no matter how you've behaved thus far, the side you're on for the final battle appears to hinge solely on two petulent man-children having a tantrum in public, and which of them you choose to shout at.
Permit me a slow clap for Bioware's continued literary brilliance. *clap.       clap.       clap.*
The rest of the act will be spent resolving the Mage-Templar war. Allow me to save you some time - the Mages Win. Whatever side you pick, for whatever reason, the Mages Win. Anders will ask you to help him blow up the Chantry, and if you refuse he will blow it up anyway. The Templars will ask you to help them slaughter the Mages, and if you do you become a hero to the Mages anyway, because it seems the Circle of Magi find nothing more inspiring than the story of a freelance lunatic who butchered an entire Circle and drove the First Enchanter to Blood Magic in a desperate bid for survival.
Best of all... it's a cliffhanger! Yes, Dragon Age 2 was so terrible that Bioware had to pull the Cliffhanger Card - "We'll give you an exciting plot development later, because we don't have one now!" Cliffhanger endings are a sign of bad writing. They're a good way to end a chapter of a story because on the very next page we find out what happens. When we have to wait years to find out (assuming the damn sequel isn't killed whilst it's still a foetus) it's just insulting. They have so little confidence in the game they've made they honestly don't think we'd want to buy Dragon Age 3 if they didn't dangle that stupid little "Look! Leliana's a member of a weird new cult of Chantry Ninjas!" in front of our faces. Sorry, Bioware, but I'm not willing to bite.

So there you have it. Dragon Age 2 is a story about characters we don't care about, Deus Ex Machina'd into a location they have no reason to care about, dragged into a conflict they have no motive to be a part of, and then given an ending that ignores what actually happened.

By far, this is one of the most spectacular screwups I've ever seen; it is best played in the same light as you would gawp at a car accident - you do it not to be entertained, but because you're morbidly curious as to just how horrific the accident really was.


You had some good points.You made me laugh so hard,the sarcasm was awesome.But you did said some wrong facts,most of them was true but i think you over reacted a bit.I personally loved the companions in DA2 they made the game alive and i think i love DA2 mostly cuz of the great companions

PS

Thx for the laughter, the sarcasm was awesome :P,btw i still love DA2 altrough you proved that i partly sucked!

#14
InfinitePaths

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Realmzmaster wrote...

What of those who like the new flavor (DA2) and have grown tired of the old flavor (DAO). If DA3 goes back to the old flavor I guess we who like the new flavor will have to take our money and find a company that will give us a Bioware type story with the favor we want.

I guess Bioware/EA will not need our money and will be able to attract other gamers to take our place. Like the others who have chimed in flavor of the old favor I will not spend money on a flavor I do not want. I may consider a new flavor that is different.

I think I would like to see turn based combat based on initiative.
Regenerating health and mana that regenerates over time not immediately after battle.
Do not waste money on character model creation. Let gamers pick a portrait for their character from a available group or let them import a portrait.
No voice acting. All information is conveyed through text. Only battle cries are allowed.
Multiple races for the PC.
If I can have it I want full party creation and customization.
Party members can actually die in combat (perma-death)
Random encounters that are truly random.
Skip the romances. Not really necessary in a hero's journey narrative.
Institute a reputation system where the shop keepers and other react to the party based on the PC's rep.
If caught stealing in a person's home punishment is swift and sure. The guards hunt the party.

I could think of ours but that will do for now.



IMO Skip the romances,why???if somewone wants to romance why should't he?? If they do that RPG wouldsuck,they would take away our choice to love(i overreacted a bit lol)

Health and mana reganerate over time,why??? it is just a waste of time waiting 4 it to regenarate.

Party members perma deaths WTF???What about plot holes,what if alistar,morrigan or Varric died.The whole story would get ****ed up.And even if they fix that,nobody would want to lose a companion everybodey would just reload a 100x times.And what if you run out of companions???

Stealing,well there is no stealing in DA,even if they implement it,guard chasing down party would make so many plot holes!

I think it is impossible to make an RPG lke that IMO.

#15
Pasquale1234

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HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

I think it is impossible to make an RPG lke that IMO.


You haven't played any of the older RPGs, have you?

#16
TonberryFeye

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Pasquale1234 wrote...

HeriocGreyWarden wrote...

I think it is impossible to make an RPG lke that IMO.


You haven't played any of the older RPGs, have you?

I was just thinking that myself...

Might and Magic 2 was the first computer based RPG that I ever played. It had pretty much everything mentioned; try to steal and you could get ambushed by guards. Characters could be knocked out or even killed outright, the latter requiring a special revive spell cast by a high level NPC or party member to reverse. Healing wasn't automatic; it required you to set up camp (and you could be ambushed in the night if you didn't camp somewhere safe) or rest at an inn.

This stuff has been the norm for RPGs for as long as anyone can remember. Having said that, I do understand why the 'insta-heal' method was used; it keeps the game moving forward. Without it, players would be endlessly backtracking back to camp to heal up after every battle until they can afford to pop health / lyrium potions like candy.

#17
InfinitePaths

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Well i honestly wouldn't call Might and Magic Interactive Story RPG.
It is imposible to do that in a story rpg cuz of the plot holes.

Modifié par HeriocGreyWarden, 30 juin 2012 - 11:19 .


#18
Raydenos256

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What I would like to see:

-I want to be a grey warden again

- I would like to have a peaceful place where I could talk with my companions, like a campfire in the woods

- I would like to have more ancient, mystic and legendary places to visit

- I would like the story to be about some great evil which wants to destroy the world, not a cheesy story about a hero of some town. I want the story to be dark, grim and gothic. I want to be able to feel the story just by looking at the environments. I want to see the bodies of soldiers who died in an ancient war. Statues, monuments and ancient architecture, and ancient evil luking in them.
Basically I want the story to make a great come back to DA:Origins.