So I have been playing back through some Bioware games, namely Mass Effect, KOTOR, and Dragon Age as well. And I've noticed that some of those games I liked over others had the same thing in common: They had a central physical antagonist that you fought against. Now don't get me wrong, there are some great villains within Biowares rogue gallery, but the best I've seen are the villains like Saren, Darth Sion, Death's Hand, and Loghain Mac Tir. And I've come upon a way to categorize these villains as well as some others that have come to my attention.
Characters such as Saren and Loghain appear to be proper villains(Not sure if thats the right word for it) who, despite going off-screen at times, return and come into physical conflict with the players.
Characters such as TIM, Harbinger, the Archdemon, these guys are the Big Bads, The Man Behind the Man, and usually have no direct confrontations with the player other than appearing to either berate or demoralize the player.
So my question to the community, and to Bioware, what kind of a villain can we expect from Dragon Age III? And what are you learning from your past projects to shape and mold the future villain/s?
Dragon Age III ideal Villain
Débuté par
Guest_KproTM_*
, juin 27 2012 01:28
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#3
Posté 27 juin 2012 - 07:13
thats1evildude
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Technically speaking, the Arishok fills this role in DA2.
#4
Posté 27 juin 2012 - 08:21
TEWR
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The ideal villain for DAIII is....
....Wade.
....Wade.
#5
Posté 27 juin 2012 - 08:25
Luckywallace
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I want the Qunari to be the villains in DA3 but in a manipulative 'behind the scenes' sort of way, trying to destabilise Thedas but sparking conflicts (like Orlais/Fereldan or a Dalish attempt to retake the Dales, along with adding fuel to the Mage/Templar war).
Would allow for a nice variety of conflicts which then tie back to a central antagonist group whose long-term goal is another attack on Thedas.
The Arishok was awesome in DA2, much better than Meredith/Orsino or waves of generic Darkspawn.
Would allow for a nice variety of conflicts which then tie back to a central antagonist group whose long-term goal is another attack on Thedas.
The Arishok was awesome in DA2, much better than Meredith/Orsino or waves of generic Darkspawn.
#6
Posté 27 juin 2012 - 08:47
Nerdage
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Clearly Herren's the real villain.The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
The ideal villain for DAIII is....
....Wade.
What a jerk.
On a slightly more constructive note I'd kind of like a machiavellian villain again, and preferably someone I can have a personal interest in thwarting, not just a political one. The trend for being bad for good reasons is getting a bit annoying; the more I hear of it the more it all sounds like "If I don't kill all the puppies, all the kittens will die!", and it quickly gets so that I don't care either way.
I'm not sure that's the "ideal" for DA3 though, if I had to take a guess I'd say 3 is headed for more convoluted political greyness with the way DA2 left things, you'll probably be fighting ideologies rather than villains, but maybe after that...
Modifié par nerdage, 27 juin 2012 - 09:06 .
#7
Posté 27 juin 2012 - 10:03
LolaLei
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hero 2 wrote...
One of your companions.
Woah, that would be ****ing awesome! Kinda reminds me of Jade Empire... Don't wanna spoil it but I totally didn't see what happened in that coming!
#8
Posté 27 juin 2012 - 10:28
DiegoRaphael
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I think a cool villain or enemy would be an perverted and distorted ideology.
And this ideology could have a face to give a personification to it.
And this ideology could have a face to give a personification to it.
#9
Posté 27 juin 2012 - 10:48
Zanallen
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The fans.
But on a lighter note, I could see someone behind the scenes, pulling the strings on the mage/templar war in order to gain power for himself. Perhaps an attempt to overthrow the Orlesian empress?
But on a lighter note, I could see someone behind the scenes, pulling the strings on the mage/templar war in order to gain power for himself. Perhaps an attempt to overthrow the Orlesian empress?
#10
Posté 27 juin 2012 - 11:02
Dragoonlordz
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Sandal for the reaction of the fans.
#12
Guest_KproTM_*
Posté 27 juin 2012 - 11:37
Guest_KproTM_*
Guest_KproTM_*
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Luckywallace wrote...
I want the Qunari to be the villains in DA3 but in a manipulative 'behind the scenes' sort of way, trying to destabilise Thedas but sparking conflicts (like Orlais/Fereldan or a Dalish attempt to retake the Dales, along with adding fuel to the Mage/Templar war).
Would allow for a nice variety of conflicts which then tie back to a central antagonist group whose long-term goal is another attack on Thedas.
The Arishok was awesome in DA2, much better than Meredith/Orsino or waves of generic Darkspawn.
This would be a good idea, I guess I did forget to mention the Arishok
#13
Guest_KproTM_*
Posté 27 juin 2012 - 11:39
Guest_KproTM_*
Guest_KproTM_*
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DiegoRaphael wrote...
I think a cool villain or enemy would be an perverted and distorted ideology.
And this ideology could have a face to give a personification to it.
^This
LolaLei wrote...
hero 2 wrote...
One of your companions.
Woah, that would be ****ing awesome! Kinda reminds me of Jade Empire... Don't wanna spoil it but I totally didn't see what happened in that coming!
^This, this would win of epicness
#14
Posté 27 juin 2012 - 11:53
JohnCena94
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The Player.
I really want to be a Tevinter Blood Mage.
I really want to be a Tevinter Blood Mage.
#15
Posté 28 juin 2012 - 01:45
Jellyfish Opera
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If I'm not mistaken the Qunari spoke highly of waging war and taking over, not to mention while this is happening the Mage/Templar war is still raging (so you'd most likely see both their leaders). If anything I'd picture the main villain being something close the god child that Morrigan wanted to create (not that child in specific, but there are obviously worse things out there than Darkspawn).
#16
Posté 28 juin 2012 - 03:01
LadyJ28
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LolaLei wrote...
hero 2 wrote...
One of your companions.
Woah, that would be ****ing awesome! Kinda reminds me of Jade Empire... Don't wanna spoil it but I totally didn't see what happened in that coming!
If DA3 somehow could incorporate that type of betrayal into the story it would be the most ridiculously awesome game ever. Seriously, that was one of the best parts of Jade empire because I did not even think to question "what my character had been taught". I would say Flemeth would be a good villian but I kinda want her to be on our side because she is so awesome.
#17
Posté 28 juin 2012 - 03:09
Ihatebadgames
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As long as the villain is not silly looking.I don't care.How about a LI villain??Cute,sexy and oh so deadly!
#19
Posté 28 juin 2012 - 04:05
Dave of Canada
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Or remove the concept of villain and just make certain groups / people antagonistic towards you based on prior choices (and they're perfectly reasonable people, they just oppose you).
Modifié par Dave of Canada, 28 juin 2012 - 04:06 .
#20
Posté 28 juin 2012 - 04:19
Direwolf0294
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I've always liked the idea of giving the player a rival/nemesis who you encounter and fight with several times during the story but then there's a big bad behind that rival who's the one who's really pulling all the strings. I guess this is sort of what BioWare's already done in Mass Effect with Saren/Sovereign in the first game and Kai Leng/TIM in the third game. I'd like to see them do it again in DA3 but a bit different. Instead of your rival being brainwashed/a jerk they'd actually be a decent person with a really good reason for fighting you. Same with who ever the big bad in the game is. In both DA:O and DA2 the big baddie was just a really stereotypical bad guy, which was a shame after you had bad guys like Loghain or who ever you ended up fighting in the mage/templar conflict. In DA3 I'd like to see the baddie not be a baddie but just have different views than those of the player which is why we're in conflict with them.
Like if DA3 was about the Qunari invading. The Qunari aren't evil, they just view life differently than us. That's the sort of enemy I want to fight.
I'd also like the chance to turn that rival/nemesis I spoke of earlier into an ally and companion character. It may even be interesting if you could start a romance with that character whilst they're still your enemy. Sort of get a Batman/Catwoman type thing going on.
Like if DA3 was about the Qunari invading. The Qunari aren't evil, they just view life differently than us. That's the sort of enemy I want to fight.
I'd also like the chance to turn that rival/nemesis I spoke of earlier into an ally and companion character. It may even be interesting if you could start a romance with that character whilst they're still your enemy. Sort of get a Batman/Catwoman type thing going on.
#21
Posté 28 juin 2012 - 05:26
LolaLei
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LadyJ28 wrote...
LolaLei wrote...
hero 2 wrote...
One of your companions.
Woah, that would be ****ing awesome! Kinda reminds me of Jade Empire... Don't wanna spoil it but I totally didn't see what happened in that coming!
If DA3 somehow could incorporate that type of betrayal into the story it would be the most ridiculously awesome game ever. Seriously, that was one of the best parts of Jade empire because I did not even think to question "what my character had been taught". I would say Flemeth would be a good villian but I kinda want her to be on our side because she is so awesome.
Yeah, up until that point I just figured my characters fight style was unconventional because she was the protagonist, which meant she was "the special chosen one" in some way or another LOL. Tricky Bioware.
But anyway, I shouldn't think it would be too hard to pull a similar stunt like that within the Dragon Age setting but with a companion instead.
Modifié par LolaLei, 28 juin 2012 - 06:55 .
#22
Guest_KproTM_*
Posté 28 juin 2012 - 07:12
Guest_KproTM_*
Guest_KproTM_*
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Direwolf0294 wrote...
I've always liked the idea of giving the player a rival/nemesis who you encounter and fight with several times during the story but then there's a big bad behind that rival who's the one who's really pulling all the strings. I guess this is sort of what BioWare's already done in Mass Effect with Saren/Sovereign in the first game and Kai Leng/TIM in the third game. I'd like to see them do it again in DA3 but a bit different. Instead of your rival being brainwashed/a jerk they'd actually be a decent person with a really good reason for fighting you. Same with who ever the big bad in the game is. In both DA:O and DA2 the big baddie was just a really stereotypical bad guy, which was a shame after you had bad guys like Loghain or who ever you ended up fighting in the mage/templar conflict. In DA3 I'd like to see the baddie not be a baddie but just have different views than those of the player which is why we're in conflict with them.
Like if DA3 was about the Qunari invading. The Qunari aren't evil, they just view life differently than us. That's the sort of enemy I want to fight.
I'd also like the chance to turn that rival/nemesis I spoke of earlier into an ally and companion character. It may even be interesting if you could start a romance with that character whilst they're still your enemy. Sort of get a Batman/Catwoman type thing going on.
I love your thoughts right there. However, I'd have to say that Saren was alot better than Kai Leng. Not sure why, but I conected better with Saren than with Kai Leng for some reason. It was like there was something about Saren that was once good, but he changed and became a different person
#23
Posté 28 juin 2012 - 10:10
Fredward
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I really want a grand puppetmaster too. I also want it to be a woman, I mean I know Meredith was female but the poor old bird was insane and that sort of forgives like 50% of her crimes right there. And a insane evil doer, really? What happened to plain old human greed and selfishness?
The Illusive man is an example of a puppetmaster, true, but I think it was too obvious from the start that he was the real threat. And another thing all the main villians seem to be poor conflicted people, which is fine, I likes me a tragic villian, but I want to see someone I can hate. That I have a personal stake when I eventually stab their face. The Archdemon was an insane dragon, Loghain was trying to save Ferelden and was REALLY paranoid, the Arashok had the vague justification of the Qun for his actions, Orsino was driven insane by the loss of his mage-buddies and Meredith was driven insane by the evil-bad-not-nice lyrium. I didn't feel anything when I killed them because it just had to be done, yah know?
People like Saren, Bartrand and Howe (especially Howe, I wanted to make that little slug grovel) turn out to be misguided fools who wind up dead long before the story is really over. Which is really dissapointing because THEY are the ones I got satisfaction out of killing.
SO a grand puppetmaster who winds up being behind all of my character's woes but mascarades as someone who has their best interests at heart (because NOTHING rustles my jimmies like betrayal) but who is only revealed later on in the game after outsmarting my character in various ways (because that REALLY rustles my jimmies too). And then an obvious villian who we can direct our anger at in the meanwhile. Also I would LOVE one of our companions being a traitor who we need to kill (in a tragic fashion) near the end because they betrayed us in some way. OOOOOOOOH!!!! Imagine if it's a love interest! Man that would be so tragi-awesome, having to kill your lover because they were working (against their will, of course) for the evil main villian would make me hate said main villian so bad... Man I wanna play NWN2 and romance Bishop again. Damn.
-cough- Don't mind me, I have an unhealthy love for tragimances.
The Illusive man is an example of a puppetmaster, true, but I think it was too obvious from the start that he was the real threat. And another thing all the main villians seem to be poor conflicted people, which is fine, I likes me a tragic villian, but I want to see someone I can hate. That I have a personal stake when I eventually stab their face. The Archdemon was an insane dragon, Loghain was trying to save Ferelden and was REALLY paranoid, the Arashok had the vague justification of the Qun for his actions, Orsino was driven insane by the loss of his mage-buddies and Meredith was driven insane by the evil-bad-not-nice lyrium. I didn't feel anything when I killed them because it just had to be done, yah know?
People like Saren, Bartrand and Howe (especially Howe, I wanted to make that little slug grovel) turn out to be misguided fools who wind up dead long before the story is really over. Which is really dissapointing because THEY are the ones I got satisfaction out of killing.
SO a grand puppetmaster who winds up being behind all of my character's woes but mascarades as someone who has their best interests at heart (because NOTHING rustles my jimmies like betrayal) but who is only revealed later on in the game after outsmarting my character in various ways (because that REALLY rustles my jimmies too). And then an obvious villian who we can direct our anger at in the meanwhile. Also I would LOVE one of our companions being a traitor who we need to kill (in a tragic fashion) near the end because they betrayed us in some way. OOOOOOOOH!!!! Imagine if it's a love interest! Man that would be so tragi-awesome, having to kill your lover because they were working (against their will, of course) for the evil main villian would make me hate said main villian so bad... Man I wanna play NWN2 and romance Bishop again. Damn.
-cough- Don't mind me, I have an unhealthy love for tragimances.
Modifié par Foopydoopydoo, 28 juin 2012 - 10:22 .
#24
Posté 28 juin 2012 - 10:25
syllogi
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I just don't want a villain who is completely off their rocker crazy. Or who seems reasonable and logical until the end, and then becomes inexplicably StupidEvil just in time for the big boss fight.
The best villains are often even more charismatic and interesting than the protagonist of the story.
The best villains are often even more charismatic and interesting than the protagonist of the story.
#25
Posté 28 juin 2012 - 10:35
whykikyouwhy
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KproTM wrote...
So my question to the community, and to Bioware, what kind of a villain can we expect from Dragon Age III?
I don't think I can fairly guess what sort of villain might be in the next game since I don't know what the premise of the game is, what core tale is going to be told. A villain should, imo, make sense for the story. Though I always find it quite nice to have a sympathetic character as a villain - even if that entity possesses some "big bad" elements.
That said, I wouldn't mind seeing a villain who nibbles cheese. And (s)he should be someone of ambition who has a sinister laugh.
