531 réponses à ce sujet

[Fail_Inc]

Actually Reject may be the BEST ending. Next cycle defeats the Reapers, not sure if they picked RGB laz0rs but still better than nothing, you make the greatest sacrifice and save the galaxy (for the later cycles)

[IanPolaris]

Eluril wrote...

People who believe the Reapers can be defeated conventionally are stupid. It's like saying why don't the Elves, Men and Dwarves in Middle Earth just march to the Dark Tower of Sauron and chop it down....

Actually alliance of Men and Elves DID beat Sauron conventionally...at the end of the second age in MIddle Earth, and Sauron feared such a fate again which governed much of his strategy.  Also just because JRR Tolkein uses a plot McGuffin doesn't make it a good idea (so why didn't the Great Eagles simply fly Frodo to Mt Doom and destroy the rings WHILE the Ringwraiths were still recovering and thus unvailable, hmmm?

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Fail_Inc wrote...

Actually Reject may be the BEST ending. Next cycle defeats the Reapers, not sure if they picked RGB laz0rs but still better than nothing, you make the greatest sacrifice and save the galaxy (for the later cycles)

Again I'd completely agree if the Time Capsule (and perhaps how badly Shepard lost...read EMS) allowed the Next Cycle to win on their own terms.

But it doesn't.  It's "oh they used the crucible like you should have"  That's completely uncool.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

spiriticon wrote...

Did we not unify the galaxy throughout the entire third game? Isn't that what the entire 35 hours of gameplay was about or am I missing something?

I don't really want to see cutscenes of my war assets get squashed by the reapers anyway.

Apparently uniting the galaxy does't actually matter as long as you are willing to play the Star-kid's demented little game.

-Polaris

[spiriticon]

Win on their own terms? By not using the Crucible? You can't. You can try, and get obliterated. The next cycle can try, and get obliterated too.

As long as the Crucible is not used, the Cycle continues and there is no end. It is clear.

[oldag07]

Ok teacher, explain me this, how exactly we killed Sovereign without Catalyst if Catalyst is the only way to kill them, how we killed the other reapers, how the bloody hell we ****ed up all reapers plans durring all 3 games, which made even the god child to QUESTIOn his own logic and reason.

How many major fleets were required to beat one reaper? How many reapers were around Earth?

False. You always have a choice. In fact Churchill did NOT want to trust the Soviets and wanted to backstab them (by invading Easter Europe via Greece). Turians didn't trust the Krogan either (Garrus makes that plain). In fact you use them.

Yes you always have a choice. That is the point of the thread. These choices don't always have the consequences that we want. And while the Allies might not have fully trusted the Soviets, they gave the Soviets tons of weapons and foreign aid.  In short, you don't have to trust the "starchild" you MUST use him for this cycle to survive.

Wrong. The Protheans had no warning whatsoever, and didn't have the Mass Relay network. Just by the lack of C3I alone, the Protheans had lost before the war even began...and that's in addition to the fact (confirmed by Javick) that the Protheans had a very rigidly (and Imperialistic) culture that couldn't adapt.

This cycle already did far more damage to the Reapers than the Prothean cycle ever did. All through ME1 and 2, we get hints that yes, the Reapers are beatable.

No, the Protheans were warned by the Inusannon. Look it up.

To use the teacher analogy mentioned earlier, this is NOT refusing to do homework and asking why I failed. This is doing all the homework, and being rewarded for it, then doing the final only to find out that I was supposed to answer the final INCORRECTLY and choose the wrong answers in order to pass, so now I fail.

No it is like being the star athlete of the school, being the biggest suck up in the world, but not doing the work that actually mattered. I don't care if I love you to death, you don't have the test scores, you don't pass. Because that is how the "real world works". You do all the stuff in the world for your boss, but if you don't do your job, you are fired. If you don't pick the catalyst, the galaxy loses.

Modifié par oldag07, 27 juin 2012 - 10:58 .

[spiriticon]

IanPolaris wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

Did we not unify the galaxy throughout the entire third game? Isn't that what the entire 35 hours of gameplay was about or am I missing something?

I don't really want to see cutscenes of my war assets get squashed by the reapers anyway.

Apparently uniting the galaxy does't actually matter as long as you are willing to play the Star-kid's demented little game.

-Polaris

You can not play games with the starkid. You just get obliterated. That IS the ending. Its not a big FU or whatnot. It's just what it is. 

[VRtheTrooper]

Reject ending is hilarious.

a mass amount of fans didn't want the three choices they were given and wanted a conventional final battle. sooooo, seeing as the reapers can't be destroyed conventionally, everyone dies. lol

[IanPolaris]

spiriticon wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

Did we not unify the galaxy throughout the entire third game? Isn't that what the entire 35 hours of gameplay was about or am I missing something?

I don't really want to see cutscenes of my war assets get squashed by the reapers anyway.

Apparently uniting the galaxy does't actually matter as long as you are willing to play the Star-kid's demented little game.

-Polaris

You can not play games with the starkid. You just get obliterated. That IS the ending. Its not a big FU or whatnot. It's just what it is. 

Why not?  Maybe in THIS cycle we are doomed to lose without the crucible, but that's because we squandered many chances to really get ready (in this the Illusive Man on Mars is dead right), but if you give a civilization that's already instrial/early space-age (the Yahg for example) enough early warning and 50,000 years to prepare with CLEAR warnings, then I'd be stunned if the Reapers could even damage let alone destroy a single ship when they returned.

Reapers don't improve technologically, but civilizations do...and you can get a LOT of tech improvement in 50,000 years...not to mention buidling a LOT of ships.

There is no reason to think (again depending on HOW this cycle lost) that the next cycle was automatically doomed to failure unless they played Star-Kid's demented little game.

Bioware insisting on it is the final insult IMHO.

-Polaris

[oldag07]

Reapers don't improve technologically, but civilizations do...and you can get a LOT of tech improvement in 50,000 years...not to mention buidling a LOT of ships.

Wrong. They absorb all of the knowledge that previous civilizations have making them stronger every cycle.

[LivingHitokiri]

spiriticon wrote...

Win on their own terms? By not using the Crucible? You can't. You can try, and get obliterated. The next cycle can try, and get obliterated too.

As long as the Crucible is not used, the Cycle continues and there is no end. It is clear.

Why, because reapers tell you its impossible.
Crucible didnt exist before the it was build after cycles before and protheans  finished the plans.
So how exalty they that failed to stop reapers managed to find a solution against them, while we who literally ruined their plans since day cannot manage to find one?
Reapers are not perfect beigns, they where created by a flawed logic like godchild is using so im pretty sur ein a game where we beat the impossible we can do it onc emore, dont you agree?

[Lionel Ou]

Seeing the Starbrat throwing his toys around him and walking away like a petulant child after rejecting his choices was hilarious. Killed all the sentients of course, but hey, what can you do? That's what rejecting a god gets you!

[Rip504]

LivingHitokiri wrote...


Because simply so far we never fought together and our forces where scattered.
Battle on earth was the first united galactic fight against reapers and as far i could see we where doing fine holding them up, like ive said, reapers where forced to use EARTH as shield in order to stop us.

The winning i was reffering was from was from the war room which you can visist, even if low MP score you still can achieve  it if you got enough EMS.
We know that thusands of reapers came in our glaxy we know that turians untill last fight where still holding against them in palaven. We won Ranoch agaisnt them also we freed Tutsanka. I have no clue why bioware in the game show that reapers occupied the whole  galaxy,since when even i go and use my scan wave i dont see reapers chasing me anymore, there is no sign of them in anywhere else besides earth and few other planets.Reapers where all focusing their forces at citadel and earth right after they learned the plans from illusive man about Crucible. Crucible was their weakness and they all went to protect it.

And again, this game we proved for dozen of times how we go against impossible odds and still manage to make it, how we prove  god child wrong even if what he thought was absolute, it was impossible to unite the galaxy yet we did, yes impossible... NOT.
I dont see how exactly beating reapers even with major casualties sound ridiculous or absolutetly not possible just because bioware wants it.
Hence i call it **** ending and bad writting, blame them for providing us clear evidence that support exactly  what im saying through 4 games

LoL. The battle took most of our allied forces to get two people aboard the Citadel. Holding our own? Earth was lost,is under Reaper control and is not retaken until the crucible is used. So no we were not holding the line. We were losing and Earth was/is still under Reaper control.

So you winning,is nothing more then a morale boosting message with no physical proof of victory? Rannoch,a planet in Reaper controlled space. Great victory! No the Reapers did not focus all of their forces on Earth/Citadel. LoL Just enough to defend. As stated by Shepard,the Reapers had thought they already won. Why send all of your forces to a winning battlefield,when you are fighting a war on more then one front? Now that makes little to no sense.

Rate of death again. Why or how will it change? If we continue to lose billions compared to a few Reaper deaths,It is obvious that conventional victory is not possible. Are we not fighting? Did Sword and Hammer wipe out all of the Reaper forces occupying Earth/Citadel? No they did not. We have our Allied forces in one place. Holding the line is not the same as killing all of the Reapers. By your own statement you admit that conventional victory is far fetched. There we have all of our forces fighting in one place,and no we our not wiping the Table with the Reapers. We are sustaining massive losses.

Modifié par Rip504, 27 juin 2012 - 11:05 .

[v TricKy v]

spiriticon wrote...

Win on their own terms? By not using the Crucible? You can't. You can try, and get obliterated. The next cycle can try, and get obliterated too.

As long as the Crucible is not used, the Cycle continues and there is no end. It is clear.

who says that???
The reapers can only build one capital ship per cycle. there is no way they could recover their losses until the next cylcle begins. The next cycle would also have a head start because they know everything: The citadel, reaper tactics, Thanix cannons and so on. Also the next cylce would probably would be the Yagh and there a extremly capable. Smart as Salarians, strong as krogans.

[Leonides02]

I can't be the only one who thought the "Refuse" ending was kind of bad ass. It's the tragic choice. You tried, fought yourself bloodu, and you did everything you could... and you lost. But you died free and didn't give in to the Reaper's bull****.

I kind of loved it.

[spiriticon]

When the reapers reap they harness the knowledge of every cycle they reap. Of course the reapers improve with each cycle.

They will ALWAYS be ahead of organics, because 50000 years is not long enough for the organics to gain enough knowledge to defeat the reapers conventionally. Advanced organics always get wiped out before they become a threat. That's the point of the reaping.

[BunBun299]

You know what would have made it not an FU to the fans? Because that's exactly what it was. How about some Charm or Intimidate options to follow it up. It would require a huge EMS and full reputation bar to accomplish. But if you're paragon, and convince the Reaper Brat that the cycle is unnessesary. Point out how we got the Geth and Quarians to live peacefully. How we united the Turians and Krogan, etc. Its not necessary to kill them, and a little chaos is good. Without, you have stagnation. And for Renegade Shepards, walk over the the tube, say, you know all those organics you "preserved" in Reaper form? How attached are you to keeping them preserved? You've got the Geth and EDI as hostages. I've got how many civilizations preserved as Reapers for hostages? I'll sacrifice mine if I have to. Now take you Reapers and get out of our galaxy forever!

That would have made the rejection option not an FU to the fans. As it is, Bioware has lost me as a customer, perhaps forever.

[Rip504]

Cstaf wrote...

Well i for one am glad to have gotten a ending my paragon Shepard would not be morally repulsed by. I haven't been playing two Mass effect games prior to this one advocating freedom and unity to throw that out of the window in the last minutes of the third game.

I just do not get this. How is protecting the freedom of the Geth and then letting the Geth and every other race die. Protecting freedom or standing up for what you believe in? The Geth lose their freedom and every other race is allowed to keep their freedom and live. Promoting my beliefs with a hard sacrifice. It makes perfect sense. A sacrifice unintended by Shepard or the Catalyst. It's simply a side effect of the crucible. It was not intended,but it happens. The freedom and life of every other race in ME is greater then preserving the Geth for a short time,and ALLOWING the galaxy to crash and burn in name of a Dead Freedom.

You will not willingly make a choice that sacrifices the Geth,but you willingly make a choice that sacrifices every race including the Geth? Freedom to live. You have taken this right and freedom from all,but yet somehow feel good about it? The galaxy died because you were unwilling to make a tough choice.

"The needs of the many,outweigh the needs of a few."

Just my opinion though,and I am truly curious about yours?

Modifié par Rip504, 27 juin 2012 - 11:13 .

[PsyrenY]

We've been showing you people how conventional victory is impossible for months. Now EC lands and proves it once and for all.

Your tears, they are delicious.Give me them.

[LivingHitokiri]

oldag07 wrote...

How many major fleets were required to beat one reaper? How many reapers were around Earth?

We beat sovereign type class in me 1 with minimal forces and without having prio knowledge.
Another sovereign class was defeated in rannoch by a meere threaser maw.
Another 1 was defeated in Ranoch by a single man aiming at their weakness just right when theya re about to shoot.
Another 2 mini class AA reapers where defeated in Earth by Shepard with Chain and Thanix missiles.

According to Prothean VI almost all reaper forces where gathered arroudn Citadel and Earth after they got Illusive man information. Only small forces in Palaven and Thessia where still fighting there.

I saw clearly in the fight and cinematics reapers getting decimated by 1  shot if they hit them at their weakness, which is clealry when they open their "mouth" to fire. We saw that in numerous occassions and in almost all times the reapers easily died that way.


So we that got the best minds in the galaxy, best fleet, whole galactic armada united that even BUILD crucible cannot manage to exploit reapers weakness and beat them... really?

Modifié par LivingHitokiri, 27 juin 2012 - 11:09 .

[sydranark]

@OP

If they really wanted to make the fans happy, they could have easily made a true "happy" ending. =/ They're willing to break artistic integrity to create a brand new ending even if they said they wouldn't. How about satisfying a majority of the complaints by showing a reunion after a true victory?

Not everyone said "deny the catalyst's options even if the reapers win." I know I personally wanted to shoot the little brat square in the head and do things on my own terms. Denying the other options to me was denying the fact that I could ONLY either control the reapers, submit to them, or destroy every synthetic in the galaxy.

I wanted to reject the thought that the only way to finish this game was with these crappy endings. So what happened? BW created a deny ending that was essentially a "You lose, game over, nobody is happy" message. All this did was reinforce the idea that it was either the other 3 endings or nothing at all A "my way or the highway" type of statement.

It wasn't necessarily a FU mean to hurt us, but rather to boast about their power. It's showboating in its purest form.

[IanPolaris]

oldag07 wrote...

Reapers don't improve technologically, but civilizations do...and you can get a LOT of tech improvement in 50,000 years...not to mention buidling a LOT of ships.

Wrong. They absorb all of the knowledge that previous civilizations have making them stronger every cycle.

No they don't.  Look at the Reapers in the 50,000 year old holograms fighting the Protheans.  Look also at the 30 million year old corpse of the Derelict Reaper.

Even if they did absorb the knowledge, technologically the Reapers appear to be completely stagnant.

-Polaris

[Teneroth]

spiriticon wrote...

You can not play games with the starkid. You just get obliterated. That IS the ending. Its not a big FU or whatnot. It's just what it is. 

This sounds to me like a cop out 'bioware moves in mysterious ways' argument. And what if the ending had revealed that the reapers were water soluable, or if they hate country music so much they would rather commit suicide then listen to it. Then would you sit there and say 'well that's just how it is, if you don't want to use water/country music you just get obliterated'

[PsyrenY]

IanPolaris wrote...

oldag07 wrote...

Reapers don't improve technologically, but civilizations do...and you can get a LOT of tech improvement in 50,000 years...not to mention buidling a LOT of ships.

Wrong. They absorb all of the knowledge that previous civilizations have making them stronger every cycle.

No they don't.  Look at the Reapers in the 50,000 year old holograms fighting the Protheans.  Look also at the 30 million year old corpse of the Derelict Reaper.

Even if they did absorb the knowledge, technologically the Reapers appear to be completely stagnant.

-Polaris

Necessity is the mother of invention. They haven't needed to change their design because they've been winning every cycle. Furthermore, the other cycles never innovate anything either because they're all building off Reaper technology. 

[spiriticon]

The catalyst says that "You are vastly outnumbered".

Ok think about it this way. For every 1 war asset you have, the reapers have 100 or maybe 1000. You may destroy one reaper in a 1 vs 1 battle by sheer luck, but you still have 999 to go. Maybe that will put to death this "If I have a high EMS I should win conventionally".