531 réponses à ce sujet

[Ghost]

zambot wrote...

I agree OP. I didn't see it as an FU, but more of an ending for people who want to stand by their ideals, even in the face of certain death. It's a good ending, and as someone pointed out in another thread, there's always the possibility of this ending being expanded on as more war assets come available via DLC (but don't hold your breath).

[BeastSaver]

Ryzaki wrote...

BeastSaver wrote...
Hmm. Okay. Then perhaps the inhabitants of the future cycle were able to finish the Crucible so that it targeted only Reapers. The Catalyst did say that the Crucible was mostly complete (paraphrased - will play through again to see if I remember right).

I think he said something like it was crude but intact. The most he says is if you're EMS is low that it's damaged.

Doesn't help that the choices actually come from the citadel part of the joining.

I just went though the end again and it sounds like the Crucible was slightly damaged (with EMS <3500) ("appears to be largely intact" the Catalyst says) so it's not able to focus the energy on just the Reapers.

Modifié par BeastSaver, 03 juillet 2012 - 02:16 .

[Ryzaki]

BeastSaver wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

BeastSaver wrote...
Hmm. Okay. Then perhaps the inhabitants of the future cycle were able to finish the Crucible so that it targeted only Reapers. The Catalyst did say that the Crucible was mostly complete (paraphrased - will play through again to see if I remember right).

I think he said something like it was crude but intact. The most he says is if you're EMS is low that it's damaged.

Doesn't help that the choices actually come from the citadel part of the joining.

I just went though the end again and it sounds like the Crucible was slightly damaged (with EMS <3500) ("appears tp be largely intact" the Catalyst says) so it's not able to focus the energy on just the Reapers.

Hmm...then why on Earth can't we get enough EMS to have it...

Of course because then they might actually have a happy ending that doesn't have galatic rape on a massive scale. Can't have that.

[wantedman dan]

Ryzaki wrote...

Hmm...then why on Earth can't we get enough EMS to have it...

Of course because then they might actually have a happy ending that doesn't have galatic rape on a massive scale. Can't have that.

too videogamey

too cliché

[JShepppp]

Cannot believe I did not find this thread earlier. Agree 100% Ieldra2.

[RampantAndroid]

xsdob wrote...

The solution to everyone whining about the twitter post is simple, ignore the mike gamble twitter post about it.

It's never said in game the crucible is used, it's never stated that in the star gazer scene or any other scene. So it doesn't exist, unless this was the official ME3 twitter account or included in the game it does not exist and is mike gamble speculation, dismissible like all other speculation.

It's like shepard's gender, if mike gamble posted that shepard is a male character, I doubt anyone would change their shepard's gender or start decrying it as being the cannon, because shepard's gender and first name have no cannon. The same goes for how the next cycle beats the reapers.

What twitter post?

[Ryzaki]

wantedman dan wrote...
too videogamey

too cliché

You'd think they'd be aware they were making a video game but hey! Logic apparently ran screaming from the window! If only it ran in Destroy and not only Synthesis!

[wantedman dan]

Ryzaki wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...
too videogamey

too cliché

You'd think they'd be aware they were making a video game but hey! Logic apparently ran screaming from the window! If only it ran in Destroy and not only Synthesis!

LOL logic is still not on the side of Synthesis.

Despite how much they obviously tried...

[Cant Planet]

Fandango9641 wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

What colour was your ending?

The colour of destruction.

Ah yes, the colour of genocide. Smart like Pol Pot.

Well, the BSN has certainly impressed me today.

Hey, this thing happened where a couple of million people were abused and mistreated to death, and in many cases outright murdered. I'm gonna use the memory of those real-life atrocities to make a glib point in an argument about fictional videogame robots. I'm sure nobody of Cambodian ancestry will ever read it, and who cares about them anyway -- I need to make an important point about VIDEOGAMES!

Real class act, you are.

[numark]

Whatever the intentions were, what matters is how the Refusal ending was delivered. 

Whether you like Refusal or not, the facts are:

- It is much shorter than the other endings.
- The Starkids voice changes, suddenly yelling "SO BE IT".
- The Reapers complete their destruction cycle, and through Liara's beacon it is referred to in the Stargazer scene that they were somehow defeated in the next cycle.

As Allan Schumacher pointed out in another thread, delivery is very important. Taking into account the above points, not to mention that it can also be triggered through shooting the Starkid, and the Refusal ending comes across as a subtle snub to *some* (not all) players. 

It's been mentioned that Refusal is an example that justifies that Starkids logic; ie. that it proves organics are too irrational.  It's a fair argument, but at the same time if one does it from the basis that the Starkids logic is flawed and untrustworthy, then that's an equally fair arguement IMO as well. 

To which my question would be:
"Has he seen conflict between organics and synthetics actually wipe out all life in the galaxy? How does he know? Has he seen it firsthand? If he's been around every 50,000 to prevent that kind of thing, it stands to reason he hasn't, so how can he say that it will?"

-peace

Modifié par numark, 03 juillet 2012 - 02:41 .

[dragonflight288]

Polaris

No it's not. Shepard didn't have full information (no organic did to be fair). Shepard (and everyone else) was assuming the Crucible was some sort of super-weapon. Build it, activate it, and no more reapers (or at least the Reapers become much weaker).

Given that assumption (which was reasonable with the information he had), it's not moronic at all to track down personelle and resources to build it.

That plan doesn't change until Shepard figures out it's a Reaper trap.

Umm....how is the Crucible a Reaper trap? I chose destroy. The catalyst is destroyed. The Reapers are destroyed, all the husks made from other species are destroyed.

There simply are no Reapers to trap me after making the choice. And by choosing any of the endings, irregardless of personal opinions, they do end the war and the cycles cease.

Now I understand you may disagree, but I happen to like life. If you want to maintain your principles, feel free. Just don't expect my Shepard to be thankful to be killed by your Shepard's decision.

I hope heaven has bacon.

[sammysoso]

I'd have thought it would have been a middle finger to the fans, HOWEVER, Shepard's speech validates the ending IMO.

[Elite Midget]

Strange, I fondly remember that the Refuse request also had a part that Fans emphasis'd "If you did everything right, had high EMS, and the such you should be able to win.". Instead Bioware just took "Reaper Wins" ending demand and merged it with Refuse.

The Refuse they put in the game isn't the one fans requested so yes, it was a big FU to the fanbase that hates the skittles.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 03 juillet 2012 - 08:13 .

[DKJaigen]

Ofcourse the the refuse ending is a FU. You just made a mistake and the galaxy died because of it. Simply put the next cycle is simply smarter then your shephard is. If people complain about: teh principelz. Well maybe harbringer will carve it on shepards tombstone. Believe what you will but some things simply must be accepted. You refuse. you die

[DKJaigen]

Fandango9641 wrote...

Cant Planet wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

What colour was your ending?

The colour of destruction.

Ah yes, the colour of genocide. Smart like Pol Pot.

Well, the BSN has certainly impressed me today.

Hey, this thing happened where a couple of million people were abused and mistreated to death, and in many cases outright murdered. I'm gonna use the memory of those real-life atrocities to make a glib point in an argument about fictional videogame robots. I'm sure nobody of Cambodian ancestry will ever read it, and who cares about them anyway -- I need to make an important point about VIDEOGAMES!

Real class act, you are.

'Destory' is genocide, 'Synthesis' eugenics and 'Control' slavery. That each choice somehow made its way into the game literally disgusts me and I'll make that point all day long, with or without your permission, thank you very much.

Why does it disgust you. You cannot handle making difficult choices.

[dragonflight288]

Name one war, just one, where tough choices aren't made.

[v3paR]

I like Refuse and didn't look at it as FU until i read that someone from BioWare confirmed that the future cycle who won the war also used the Crucible. If this turns out to be true then the whole ending is pointless and this is indeed FU from devs.

The whole idea of this ending is to refuse the Catalyst and by doing this to sacrifice whole galaxy just to provide info and intel for next cycles to win the war on their own terms.

[PeterG1]

I agree that Refuse was a reasonable executed ending as BW saw the request in the forums and elsewhere. It's not a direct FU but I can certainly see why many people would interpret it as such. I think Allan talks about in detail on another forum, too. It's hard not to see it as an FU because many requested the refuse ending as an alternate that was bleak for the very reason that the A,B,C endings were both unsatisfying and confusing. The EC improves A,B,C but refuse still gives that option. It's a reasonable ending because it's certainly possible that it could happen given the circumstances.

That said, we're still upset because, dang! BioWare included this ending but not the beach ending? Bummmmeeerrrrrrrrrrr...........

[Galbrant]

DKJaigen wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

Cant Planet wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

spiriticon wrote...

Fandango9641 wrote...

What colour was your ending?

The colour of destruction.

Ah yes, the colour of genocide. Smart like Pol Pot.

Well, the BSN has certainly impressed me today.

Hey, this thing happened where a couple of million people were abused and mistreated to death, and in many cases outright murdered. I'm gonna use the memory of those real-life atrocities to make a glib point in an argument about fictional videogame robots. I'm sure nobody of Cambodian ancestry will ever read it, and who cares about them anyway -- I need to make an important point about VIDEOGAMES!

Real class act, you are.

'Destory' is genocide, 'Synthesis' eugenics and 'Control' slavery. That each choice somehow made its way into the game literally disgusts me and I'll make that point all day long, with or without your permission, thank you very much.

Why does it disgust you. You cannot handle making difficult choices.

It wasn't  a difficult choice Bioware made the endings their  Kobayashi Maru. They cheated the players.  .

[Grubas]

numark wrote...
To which my question would be:
"Has he seen conflict between organics and synthetics actually wipe out all life in the galaxy? How does he know? Has he seen it firsthand? If he's been around every 50,000 to prevent that kind of thing, it stands to reason he hasn't, so how can he say that it will?"

-peace

The asumption is that synthetics become one day so powerfull, that they stop seeing organics as something they have to reckon with. 

Maybe they develop a desire for something that is in us, turn us into paste and begin to multiply.

[UFGSpot]

This. The "THIS IS A SLAP IN THE FACE" crowd is getting tiresome. They are so intent on being angry they can't tell they've been thrown a bone

[AllThatJazz]

Have to say I agree with OP. I was also someone who requested the option to deny the Catalyst, even if doing so led to inevitable defeat. Of course, I also requested the options to have a rainbows & bunnies ending and be able to defeat the reapers conventionally with outrageously high EMS, clearly Bioware didn't get those memos Regardless, I don't see the 'Reject' ending as a FU, or 'middle finger' or what have you. It's a valid scenario (imo) that we are now being shown (rather than its being just another implication) should we choose it. Very sad option though