Thaa_solon wrote...
Oransel wrote...
Synthesis and Control are exactly as impossible as conventional victory.
Everything is possible if you reject LOGIC and choose ART
vivaladricas wrote...
My point is a lot seem uncompetitve, and just throw their hands up and say yup there is no way to beat them conventially cause someone said so in game. It could have been written where they could by a better storyteller plain and simple. Shep doing that still makes him/her look dumb, the reaper leader is trustworthy.....yeah okay. It still comes down to bad writing and speculations but everyone seems to be on board with what Walters wants now or at least more people.
So enjoy trahsy Sci fi. The Death Star was suppposed to be unbeatbale as well, but they gave it weaknesses, gets awfully boring knowing who will win at the start.
If its real and Hackett say "Can't win this one." Then I am going to try anyway, I take that personal and it would drive me. I am taking out the wretched plot device of the Catalyst and the Crucible in my thoughts here. There should be a way, whether it be code, or guerialla warfare you have to fight for years and years till you win. People taking everything said in game as gospel is disturbing.
Lets say Nolan wrote it for a movie, came up with a hot ending and made billions and 80% + loved they way he accomlished it, then it makes this BS story look insignificant. If that happened, but he wont touch trash obviously.
Modifié par Domecoming, 27 juin 2012 - 08:32 .
Goodwood wrote...
As someone who dabbles in military strategy and tactics (most commonly viewed through the lens of historical research), I could list a thousand and one reasons why a so-called "conventional" war against the Reapers could be winnable without the Crucible. It wouldn't be easy, and it wouldn't be quick, but such a thing is very possible. The Reapers have already demonstrated both understanding and blithe ignorance to Sun Tzu's The Art of War, and I have no qualms in saying that Tzu, at least, would have known that victory was within the realm of the possible.
Domecoming wrote...
In previous cycle, the Protheans were caught completely off guard, Sovereign seized the Citadel and the relays, the Reapers just spawned right in the middle of the galaxy and had all the advantages in just about everything... And STILL, it took them centuries to wipe out the Protheans. Centuries.
That must mean that at least on some level of conventional warfare it is possible to fight against the reapers. Due to commander Shepard's actions throughout all three games, we are in relatively better starting position compared to the Protheans, so there is a reason to believe we could wage a conventional war and hope to win.
Or maybe I'm just hallucinating
Olaf_de_IJsbeer wrote...
Oransel wrote...
To those who say that conventional victory is impossible because it violates ME lore. Guess what? ME3 have already violated lore by turning Reapers into retarded squids who can be shot from roof with Cain gun.
Yeah, no. Good luck with destroying thousands upon thousands (if not millions) of Sovereign-class Reapers this way.
Quintega wrote...
.
The problem is you guys decided to remove the ability to kill them conventionally. The crucible needs to be removed from the game and the entire star child removed.
Zelto wrote...
I think that is the main point, the writes simply changed it so it was impossilbe. In ME 3, no you cant win convensionally. Prior to that yes it was possible and everything seemed to be leading to that conclusion that you would build fleets and find allies and advance technologies and tactics to beat them. But then they decided that they liked their artistic, make a moral choice, and live with the consequences (and now actaully know what they are) ending.
7he Island Head wrote...
7he Island Head wrote...
7he Island Head wrote...
I think the disappointment comes from two things. Firstly the whole story revolving around a space magic generator (the Crucible) that no one knows anything about or what it does. Secondly all the missions are about building a convention army or acquiring war assests to fight the reapers conventionaly. It seems like all of Shep's efforts were a waste of time, because it comes down to him chosing options only present to him in the last few minutes of the game, involving a mysterious machine that you only help build indirectly.Allan Schumacher wrote...
Maybe a more pertinent question is:
Is it acceptable that conventional victory is not obtainable?
It's one thing to want to be able to win conventionally. But is the disappointment with it not being possible fed more from the fact that someone wanted it to happen but didn't, or because it realistically doesn't make sense?
I was on the record a couple months ago stating that I agreed with the notion many posters had that refusing the reapers should have been a viable option, but I was also clear in stating that I'd have it result in failure because in my opinion it makes it a more interesting choice. So I'm just asking this to get a better understanding from those that are disappointed.
I feel like the plot got pulled into two different directions, a noncoventional and conventional war effort, this made the ending unsatisfying for the ending is based in the nonconventional war effort, while the journey is based on the conventional war effort. You don't even see the Crucible getting built, and the noncoventional war effort which provides the ending that player has no interaction with at all.
Guest_vivaladricas_*
RDSFirebane wrote...
Ok. you seem to be agreeing with me just a bit more long winded so I'm confused to as why you decided to call me out when we are supporting the same side.
Sorry if it seemed that way, I may have mixed up post with someone that seems to throw their hands up and say "We'll Hackett said"
Oransel wrote...
According to the lore. I'd say yes, it is possible, though very unlikely. 9000 EMS should be a victory with heavy casualties, in my opinion.
To those who say that conventional victory is impossible because Hackett said it. Hackett is incompetent old moron who lost 2 fleets in relatively avoidable situation.
To those who say that conventional victory is impossible because it violates ME lore. Guess what? ME3 have already violated lore by turning Reapers into retarded squids who can be shot from roof with Cain gun.
What I wanted to see in the first place: Shepard and Anderson up there near control panel, sharing last words, Citadel opens, Crucible fires - what happens next is up to your EMS. Sure it would still be Deus Ex Machina (Crucible) and weak writing, but that was alright way to finish the series with noone complaining.
Starkid violated the lore, literally raped the plot to the point where now everything is possible. Synthesis is exactly as impossible as conventional victory, yet it happens.
Modifié par anorling, 27 juin 2012 - 08:41 .
Guest_vivaladricas_*
Heeden wrote...
Tactically speaking everyone in the ME universe is completely retarded, lining up space-ships as if it's an 18th century naval battle then proceeding with a ground war is the sort of stupidity you'd expect from wh40k (and even then they make a better job of space-battles).
Oransel wrote...
I will add that before the release of ME3, Mr. Hudson said that: "There won't be any Reaper-turn-off button". If I knew from the beginning that they would go with generic and cheap "forgotten weapon" way, well, it could have ended better.
JKA_Nozyspy wrote...
At best they number in the thousands, if one Sovereign class is made every 50,000 years, and then even if you did that for 37,000,000 years (the age of the derilict reaper) then you would still only end up with 740 Sovereign class reapers.
JKA_Nozyspy wrote...
Olaf_de_IJsbeer wrote...
Oransel wrote...
To those who say that conventional victory is impossible because it violates ME lore. Guess what? ME3 have already violated lore by turning Reapers into retarded squids who can be shot from roof with Cain gun.
Yeah, no. Good luck with destroying thousands upon thousands (if not millions) of Sovereign-class Reapers this way.
At best they number in the thousands, if one Sovereign class is made every 50,000 years, and then even if you did that for 37,000,000 years (the age of the derilict reaper) then you would still only end up with 740 Sovereign class reapers.
M25105 wrote...
Conventional victory is possible.
Guest_vivaladricas_*
Aquilas wrote...
The Catalyst says it's been running the Cycle for aeons. That's plural, as in more than one aeon. In geological terms, an aeon is a billion years. And the conventional interpretation of "aeon" is along those lines. Guys, there are a lot more than 740 Sovereign-class Reapers. A whole buncha lot.
Modifié par vivaladricas, 27 juin 2012 - 08:47 .
Father_Jerusalem wrote...
M25105 wrote...
Conventional victory is possible.
Well, no. It's not. As evidence by the fact that you lose.
So...
<.<
>.>
Yeah.
Aquilas wrote...
The Catalyst says it's been running the Cycle for aeons. That's plural, as in more than one aeon. In geological terms, an aeon is a billion years. And the conventional interpretation of "aeon" is along those lines. Guys, there are a lot more than 740 Sovereign-class Reapers. A whole buncha lot.
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