207 réponses à ce sujet

[Morgax_Warrior]

Raw damage reduction was reasnoable, evolution 6 sniper damage reduction seems odd not affecting shotgun/rifle/pistol builds.
Duration nerf: not happy about it, but life goes on,
Still want to see changes on dlc weapons.

[J-Reyno]

Adhok42 wrote...

Before I could wait for them to slowly move away and then cloak-dash through their lines to get to you. I can't do that anymore.

Yes, you absolutely can.  Even without the 150% duration evo, you are still much better at the medic role than any other class.  You have to be smart about it.  Sure, when you see someone go down, you can't always cloak immediately and use the 10 seconds to run all the way to their location.  You may need to get close first and get in cover to ensure your safety.  Then cloak, dash to their rescue, and start booking it again.  It's not at all difficult and I have still been rezzing like mad with my frail 5-sec-cloak GI since the changes.

The only thing you REALLY can't do is deactivate the 4 objectives as easily, and even then you've just been put on the same level as the other classes in that regard.  If you've ever played any other class then you should be able to figure it out.

EDIT: To actually answer the OP, yes I'm satisfied.  I guess you could say happy.  Mostly happy that they didn't over-nerf anything and actually achieved a good balance.

Modifié par Reyno411, 27 juin 2012 - 08:05 .

[GGW KillerTiger]

No BioFail and their extremely limited wisdom nerfed utility (which is bugged to all hell) even more than they did in the past while also nerfing the ****** out of the damage. Yea look at that >.> BioWare over nerfed Tactical Cloak just like they over nerfed the Falcon.

[UEG Donkey]

Happy because now when I roll random I don't jump in games with 3 infiltrators

[Mozts]

Yes, Balance ALL the things group is taking over BioWare and various organizations around the globe. Including mecenaries like Black Water, food companies from the Corn belt and paper tissue suppliers.

lol...

BioWare did what bioware wanted. If we helped that decision is because we made a good point. I hope they keep following the sugestions in the Balance ALL the things thread complemented with their own testing and data.

Modifié par Mozts, 27 juin 2012 - 08:07 .

[sliverofamoon]

Don't like it. I think it was too heavy-handed. Slower, tested increments would have better.

[heybigmoney]

Approve of the changes. Even more impressed that bioware listened to the community. Big ups to the many contributors of BALANCE ALL THE THINGS.

It took a few short games to get used to but it wasn't long until I felt like the nerf barely had any effect on my offense at all. You do feel a little more exposed with the shortened cloak cycles and learn to use them more conservatively. Bad players probably can't use the class as a crutch anymore.

[Aven Phoenix]

I play a Female QI almost univerally, but mostly in Gold matches.
I don't mind the nerf much at all.
95% of the time that I cloak it's a nanosecond before I shoot. So the duration nerf doesn't hit me hard.
It only hits the fact that I won't be able to deactivate the four things as easily. But I almost kinda like that, now everyone won't expect me to run and go do them all by myself every time.

[RGFrog]

Reyno411 wrote...
The only thing you REALLY can't do is deactivate the 4 objectives as easily, and even then you've just been put on the same level as the other classes in that regard.

That only worked when your team worked with you by keeping the agro away from the objectives. It was by no means a solo superman job.

Inf went down pretty quickly pretty much everything if the team didn't keep them aggro'd somewhere else. It was never about being better at it. It was about a way to get it done that the ENTIRE TEAM had to agree on.

One person out of the team coming to 'help' the inf. ruined it all. 

So, yeah, I guess now that one Bronze player isn't necessary to keep the objective from failing... that must be the same level you're talking about, right?

[Lynx7725]

Hmm. Played a couple of games. Only 2 things really showed up. Takes a bit longer to kill things (not a big deal). Cloak... doesn't happen.

I was running a damage-spec'ed Infiltrator before the change, so the change was fairly obvious. Now, my Human Infiltrator feels like a Soldier with a button to temporarily increase damage on the sniper rifle.

Since I happened to be running simultaneously a Asari Justicar Sniper and was fooling around with a Human Engineer Sniper, comparisons are inevitable, so...

In terms of long range combat, IMO Human Engineer Sniper > Human Infiltrator > Asari Justicar Sniper. Engineer has additional tools to make the scope useful, Asari Justicar not well mated to a sniper rifle.

In terms of short range combat, IMO Human Engineer Sniper ~ Asari Justicar Sniper > Human Infiltrator. BE and Tech attacks are just too useful if spec'ed right.

Overall, Human Infiltrator damage spec lost its flavour. Feels just a bit different from a Soldier Sniper. DPS and burst damage wise, does not seem to be too great a difference once Adrenaline Rush is factored in, and Soldier's got a few other toys to play with. Have to try with bigger sniper rifles, and gotta try with that Soldier build.

I think the nerf was done with the best intention, but didn't quite hit the target... or too much collateral damage.

[Mindlog]

The change did nothing to my Infiltrator running around Glacier nuking spawns.
The change will have a minor effect on how aggressively I charge objectives and downed teammates.

My best summary of the current changes: misguided.

We're all using Phoenix anyways.

[Poison_Berrie]

I doubt they just took it over. No doubt they actually considered and tested it.

Anyways, I think the base damage reduction would have better fitted on evolution 2 and perhaps Rank 3 duration deserves a buff (something along the lines of 50% or 75%).

[JiceDuresh]

People be mad they have to choose between damage and survival. That's all. No diffrerent than Tech armor, Fortification, Barrier, Balde Armor, Bloodlust, Biotic Sphere, and others. They are mad they don't have it all, all the time now. So am I happy about what the Nerf did? Absolutely. It introduced choice and preference into what was once a lobotomy of a class.

[HairyCallahan]

I was playing today and wondered why my cloak was so short:-D Well, i don't really mind, though I think the duration wasn't the problem of the Cloak. It was the massive damage you could deal with an allready strong weapon like the Krysea.

[DNC Protoman]

Perfectly happy, they balanced it without destroying it. Well done Bioware.

[greghorvath]

I consider myself a decent sniper infiltrator, and I regularly play as such.

I think the TC nerf was necessary, but I dont agree with the way it was actually implemented. The current situation does not seriously influence sniper builds (even if you take duration, on top of tier 6 you can get a lot of extra damage from equipment to boost alredy hard hitting one shot rifles. Multi shot weapons are not really sniper weapons, so they dont count for a real sniper player) but as I see it it forces shotgun wielders to take damage boost every time and thus, even if they wanted, they will not be able to contribute to the team as much.

I think it would have been better to cut the tier 4 damage boost, so as to have a choice between marginal utility and smaller damage, instead of marginal utility and massive damage boost. The way it is now, there is still no reason to choose duration.

An even better better solution would have beeto replace tier 4 damage boost with accuracy, rof and reload time bonuses and have a larger general damage boost at tier 6.

[Pyro666999]

Hakumen wrote...

No. Infiltrators weren't OP. Good players with Infiltrators were OP, like pretty much every other class in the good hands. There still will be a lot of whining. BioWare just made this class worse. Not unplayable or dead, not balanced. Just worse.

This!

Also, Infiltrators were kinda OP even compared to pros playing other classes. it simply gives you much more stuff to perfect 

[Geek]

DNC Protoman wrote...

Perfectly happy, they balanced it without destroying it. Well done Bioware.

The beauty of the approach they took is that it still leaves so many options open. If they had just lowered the duration without raising the damage bonus or if they had just lowered the damage it would've been much worse. This way you still get to choose how you want to play.

[Atheosis]

greghorvath wrote...

I consider myself a decent sniper infiltrator, and I regularly play as such.

I think the TC nerf was necessary, but I dont agree with the way it was actually implemented. The current situation does not seriously influence sniper builds (even if you take duration, on top of tier 6 you can get a lot of extra damage from equipment to boost alredy hard hitting one shot rifles. Multi shot weapons are not really sniper weapons, so they dont count for a real sniper player) but as I see it it forces shotgun wielders to take damage boost every time and thus, even if they wanted, they will not be able to contribute to the team as much.

I think it would have been better to cut the tier 4 damage boost, so as to have a choice between marginal utility and smaller damage, instead of marginal utility and massive damage boost. The way it is now, there is still no reason to choose duration.

An even better better solution would have beeto replace tier 4 damage boost with accuracy, rof and reload time bonuses and have a larger general damage boost at tier 6.

The Balance All The Things! group proposed a nerf to the Evoultion 2 damage bonus rather than the base.  In my opinion that would've encouraged build variety much more.

As far as the multi-shot sniper rifles not counting for real sniper players, I think you're being a bit silly.  In real life there are many semi-auto sniper rifles, and the people who use them are still considered snipers.  That'd be like you saying a multi-shot shotgun doesn't really count as a shotgun.

[Invellous]

No I am not. The Sniper Rifle damage should not have been touched. In the class description in all three games it is mentioned that the class is especially proficient with Sniper Rifles. Last I check no other class's description mentions them being trained to use Sniper Rifles. Why people thought the Infiltrator's Sniper Rifle damage bonus should have been nerfed to level the playing field is beyond me. Bad weapon design led to a bad balance change.

[Mindlog]

JiceDuresh wrote...

People be mad they have to choose between damage and survival. That's all. No diffrerent than Tech armor, Fortification, Barrier, Balde Armor, Bloodlust, Biotic Sphere, and others. They are mad they don't have it all, all the time now. So am I happy about what the Nerf did? Absolutely. It introduced choice and preference into what was once a lobotomy of a class.

I don't believe that's true. Most Gold Infiltrators never needed more than 4 seconds of cloak anyways.
I similarly doubt that there will be a significant rise in the number of Duration specced Infiltrators.

SImple thought experiment. How often and for what reasons would an Infiltrator need to be cloaked for longer than 3 seconds on Gold? How often is an Infiltrator cloaking right before they fire simply to get the damage bonus? With these numbers in mind; What does changing base duration accomplish?

Maybe I'm wrong and Infiltrator use will diminish. Maybe we'll see more teamwork now with more Infiltrators specced for duration!

We'll see.

Modifié par Mindlog, 27 juin 2012 - 08:37 .

[Atheosis]

Mindlog wrote...

The change did nothing to my Infiltrator running around Glacier nuking spawns.
The change will have a minor effect on how aggressively I charge objectives and downed teammates.

My best summary of the current changes: misguided.

We're all using Phoenix anyways.

The day we start balancing around veteran players nuking predictable spawns on small maps, we are all screwed.

[Zjarcal]

I'm pefectly fine with it, really like having to choose between duration and damage now (I still pick damage for most of my infiltrators).

[Mindlog]

Atheosis wrote...

Mindlog wrote...

The change did nothing to my Infiltrator running around Glacier nuking spawns.
The change will have a minor effect on how aggressively I charge objectives and downed teammates.

My best summary of the current changes: misguided.

We're all using Phoenix anyways.

The day we start balancing around veteran players nuking predictable spawns on small maps, we are all screwed.

That's exactly what happened. Token changes were made that litteraly had no effect on the veteran players most people complain about.

[Atheosis]

Invellous wrote...

No I am not. The Sniper Rifle damage should not have been touched. In the class description in all three games it is mentioned that the class is especially proficient with Sniper Rifles. Last I check no other class's description mentions them being trained to use Sniper Rifles. Why people thought the Infiltrator's Sniper Rifle damage bonus should have been nerfed to level the playing field is beyond me. Bad weapon design led to a bad balance change.

You do realize that the SR damage bonus was functionally providing a 100%+ damage bonus rather than 40% right?