207 réponses à ce sujet

[Kronner]

I love the change. It forces me to think harder and play better.

[jrod512ATX]

I'm not a frequent Infiltrator player but sometimes I do feel like putting on my GI and messing around, it was then that I saw that duration took a hit. I realize I must choose with path I want to take but I didn't think it was that big of a deal. Primarily I used it for reviving and objectives...but I suppose I could always have to types of infiltrators ones that support and ones that dole out the pain...

Modifié par jrod512ATX, 27 juin 2012 - 09:39 .

[Mal3fact0r]

ryoldschool wrote...

Mal3fact0r wrote...

I don't mind the changes made, it just means that teams will have to L2P and use teamwork more now that I won't be doing things solo in a team game.

That being said, I'm not pleased that they caved to forum whining to make changes in the first place, or, even more pathetic (if you actually believe it) because a class was "too popular". They've now set the precedent for future nerfs and "opened the floodgates" so to speak.

Agree.  If they continue to nerf it nobody will play it.  In effect they are trying to get less people to play it ( the driving element in doing the nerf if you can believe what bioware said why they were looking into it ).

So, I'd like to know the distribution of classes played on Gold before and after this nerf.   Then you will get a clue on what they nerf next.

I have trouble believing the line that they nerfed it because it's "too popular", from a business perspective, I know I'd rather have more people playing total, even if that means 1 class is over-represented, than risk alienating people by trying to force them to play something else. Their reasons given are what I take issue with, that they don't have to time or manpower to make other classes more appealing instead they take the easy (and potentially damaging to the playerbase as a whole) way out and just nerf.

[Lord Rosario]

Mal3fact0r wrote...

I don't mind the changes made, it just means that teams will have to L2P and use teamwork more now that I won't be doing things solo in a team game.

That being said, I'm not pleased that they caved to forum whining to make changes in the first place, or, even more pathetic (if you actually believe it) because a class was "too popular". They've now set the precedent for future nerfs and "opened the floodgates" so to speak.

Pretty sure they weren't listening to the self-pittying whiners when they decided to make this change. Think they were listening to the outstanding ammount of evidence pointing to the TC being more powerful than any other ability and the infiltrator being a master of everything. I could drop the huge list of things it was great at and the still huge list of thing it is still great at.

[Vikingo]

As it is now, no.
If they do buff sniper rifles i would be ok with it. But if I have to go back to Widow/Black Widow to do any significant damage with it then im finished with Infiltrators.

Favourite class is soldier acctually but I do like variety when I play.

[JoxerNL]

extremely happen with the balancing, about time.

[Invellous]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

Invellous wrote...

I will admit I did not know that. Now was it providing an extra 60% more damage due to some bug or error on Bioware's part? Or was it because of how the damage bonuses are calculated. If it was because of some bug or error on Bioware's part why not just fix it instead of fixing it and knocking off another 15% for good measure?

It's a multiplicative bonus. This is intended and probably and artifact from SP (it worked that way for SP and they didn't think that needed to change for MP).

If was working as intended then I am left to assume that the sniper rifle damage bonus was reduced as result of people being upset over the Krysae. Which I am not okay with. Effecting a class's ability to perform with other weapons in a category it is suppose to excel with because of one weapon is wrong. Especially when it did not function like a sniper rifle. Reducing the blast radius/damage, and reducing or removing the proximity trigger would have solved the issue people had with players clearing entire spawns without hurting the class's ability to us other sniper rifles.

Now if there was extra damage being applied and the damage was reduced so that the intended amount of damage given was received then I am fine with that. I expect bugs/glitches/errors to be fixed. If that is the case I apologize for jumping the gun, and for insulting Bioware's balancing methods.

The sniper rifle bonus damage aside. I think the rest of the changes were good. I like the route they took. For my sniper rifle using Infiltrators I plan to stick with the damage bonus. For my shotgun using Infiltrators I will pick the duration bonus. It was a good change.

[Poison_Berrie]

Mal3fact0r wrote...

Their reasons given are what I take issue with, that they don't have to time or manpower to make other classes more appealing instead they take the easy (and potentially damaging to the playerbase as a whole) way out and just nerf.

I think the point was that unless they made a ton of very big buffs and then changed all the enemies around that again, they'd never get other classes to Infiltrator levels.
Also note that the easy route has less things that could go wrong and is therefor easier to fix.

EDIT: Invellous I think it has more to do with that what was okay or worked in SP might not translate well into MP. Shepard for example has weaker squadmates and more (and unique) powers available to himself.

Modifié par Poison_Berrie, 27 juin 2012 - 10:07 .

[pmi0126]

Actually I thought it was gonna be alot worse. I gotta say I think its about perfect now.

[Fortack]

I didn't notice any difference actually. I only use Cloak for the damage bonus and free casting. A two second duration would be good enough for me.

[Megachaz]

Yep. It makes the game more fun. I love playing Infiltrator, but TC was just a win button before. Now there's a challenge.

[Blaine Kodos]

Sure am.

[Chealec]

The infiltrator nerf is great ... previously I had a scout build shotgun QMI (took the duration bonus on TC) and now I have a scout build shotgun QMI with almost exactly the same cloak time as before, only he's actually MORE useful now because he's the infil with the long cloak time.

You realise that saying "the damage nerf was fine but NOT the cloak duration nerf" is utterly daft because the cloak duration is only nerfed now IF YOU CHOOSE TO NERF IT... see, you could just suck up another 40% damage nerf and have your cloak exactly where it was before by CHOOSING the 150% duration evolution at tier 4.

The only real difference now is that you have to chuck on some consumables to get some of that damage back - or you could go with the assassin build and have the shorter cloak duration; it's a choice.

My QMI is still an awesome scout and my QFI an awesome assassin - the only difference is that the assassin build doesn't scout anywhere near as well as the scout build now ... seems fair to me.

Modifié par Chealec, 27 juin 2012 - 10:34 .

[Yoshiyuki Ly]

No. Not at all.

[ryoldschool]

Chealec wrote...

The infiltrator nerf is great ... previously I had a scout build shotgun QMI (took the duration bonus on TC) and now I have a scout build shotgun QMI with almost exactly the same cloak time as before, only he's actually MORE useful now because he's the infil with the long cloak time.

You realise that saying "the damage nerf was fine but NOT the cloak duration nerf" is utterly daft because the cloak duration is only nerfed now IF YOU CHOOSE TO NERF IT... see, you could just suck up another 40% damage nerf and have your cloak exactly where it was before by CHOOSING the 150% duration evolution at tier 4.

The only real difference now is that you have to chuck on some consumables to get some of that damage back - or you could go with the assassin build and have the shorter cloak duration; it's a choice.

My QMI is still an awesome scout and my QFI an awesome assassin - the only difference is that the assassin build doesn't scout anywhere near as well as the scout build now ... seems fair to me.

You say the nerf is great, but that it does not affect you.   So, why is it great?  Because it might affect other players?

Edit: Also chucking on some comsumables will not get near the damage back to sniper rifles.

Modifié par ryoldschool, 27 juin 2012 - 10:40 .

[Lord Rosario]

I like this change. It doesn't mess with the players that like having their pure damage infiltrators, it doesn't mess with those that want to go for objectives and revive their team and generally play a support role, it isn't that heavy a nerf that would ruin the class. The only people that are unhappy are the ones that insist they have to be able to do both great damage and great duration or those that simply don't like nerfs at all, no matter how called for they are.

Personally, I probably would have gone a different direction with this nerf and if it was up to me, would have been a bit more severe a nerf. I think I speak for everyone when I say that it's a good thing it wasn't up to me. :]

[Lord Rosario]

ryoldschool wrote...

You say the nerf is great, but that it does not affect you.   So, why is it great?  Because it might affect other players?

Edit: Also chucking on some comsumables will not get near the damage back to sniper rifles.

A lvl 3 sniper consumable will increase your sniper damage by 30% and a gear will increase it anywhere from 5% at lvl 1 and 15% at lvl 5. I don't even know what the lvl 4 consumables do for damage increase, but I know that it is far more than the 15% sniper damage loss even including the extra 10% shave off of the TC's damage. a single lvl 3 sniper amp already accounts for more than that.

Edit: Also forgot all about the headshot VI. That adds another 100% damage to headshots.

Modifié par Lord Rosario, 27 juin 2012 - 10:45 .

[robarcool]

Too many of these threads. Please, make it stop!
On topic: I don't like the damage nerf, but duration nerf is ok, since it adds challenge to reviving. No one can say now that I can revive easily because I played infiltrator (FYI, I don't take duration).

Modifié par robarcool, 27 juin 2012 - 10:47 .

[Dervim]

I can still snipe and deal crazy damage, but what I can't do is to do all the tactical stuff, like reviving teammates or actually doing objectives.

[ryoldschool]

Lord Rosario wrote...

I like this change. It doesn't mess with the players that like having their pure damage infiltrators, it doesn't mess with those that want to go for objectives and revive their team and generally play a support role, it isn't that heavy a nerf that would ruin the class. The only people that are unhappy are the ones that insist they have to be able to do both great damage and great duration or those that simply don't like nerfs at all, no matter how called for they are.

Personally, I probably would have gone a different direction with this nerf and if it was up to me, would have been a bit more severe a nerf. I think I speak for everyone when I say that it's a good thing it wasn't up to me. :]

Have you tried it with snipers yet?  I have not, but the math says its at least 20% weaker per shot ( and that is if you take the damage options for cloak ).  The at least is because the rank 6 sniper damage bonus is a multiplier.

On my claymore build ( only take rank 4 of cloak for damage ) what you say about damage builds looks like its true at least by my experience in the one gold game I played last night ( I got the 10 revive medal even with reduced duration ).

[ryoldschool]

Lord Rosario wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

You say the nerf is great, but that it does not affect you.   So, why is it great?  Because it might affect other players?

Edit: Also chucking on some comsumables will not get near the damage back to sniper rifles.

A lvl 3 sniper consumable will increase your sniper damage by 30% and a gear will increase it anywhere from 5% at lvl 1 and 15% at lvl 5. I don't even know what the lvl 4 consumables do for damage increase, but I know that it is far more than the 15% sniper damage loss even including the extra 10% shave off of the TC's damage. a single lvl 3 sniper amp already accounts for more than that.

Edit: Also forgot all about the headshot VI. That adds another 100% damage to headshots.

And as I posted a couple of times those same bonuses are 15% less after this nerf.   Since the rank 6 sniper bonus is a multiplier that multiplier affects all that gear bonuses you tack on.  So you can never get the same damage back.

[Chealec]

ryoldschool wrote...

You say the nerf is great, but that it does not affect you.   So, why is it great?  Because it might affect other players?

Edit: Also chucking on some comsumables will not get near the damage back to sniper rifles.

I didn't say it didn't affect me - it didn't affect my QMI except in a relative sense - he's now MORE scouty because other infiltrators, including my assassin build QFI are LESS scouty ... if that makes sense. It gives meaningful roles to the 2 infiltrators I probably use most.

... and no, you won't get all the damage back with consumables but before the change my QFI was able to kill Brutes or Ravagers in 6 shots, on gold, with a Valiant using nothing but Operative gear (and Sabotage)... now I can STILL kill a Brute in 6 shots (plus Sabotage) with a Valiant if I chuck on a sniper rifle rail amp; the only real difference with damage is that I have to consider using a sniper rifle rail amp, armour piercing ammo or switching to a Black Widow.

However, to maintain that level of damage I've had to sacrifice some duration on tactical cloak (by not taking the 150% tier 4 duration evo) ... which means she's more of an assassin than a scout now and I have to be a bit more careful on point capture missions.

This variety is a good thing IMO.

[ryoldschool]

robarcool wrote...

Too many of these threads. Please, make it stop!
On topic: I don't like the damage nerf, but duration nerf is ok, since it adds challenge to reviving. No one can say now that I can revive easily because I played infiltrator (FYI, I don't take duration).

Who would take duration?   Really?  Somebody might do that, but 40% is like going from a Widow I to a Widow 14 gun.

[Lord Rosario]

ryoldschool wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

I like this change. It doesn't mess with the players that like having their pure damage infiltrators, it doesn't mess with those that want to go for objectives and revive their team and generally play a support role, it isn't that heavy a nerf that would ruin the class. The only people that are unhappy are the ones that insist they have to be able to do both great damage and great duration or those that simply don't like nerfs at all, no matter how called for they are.

Personally, I probably would have gone a different direction with this nerf and if it was up to me, would have been a bit more severe a nerf. I think I speak for everyone when I say that it's a good thing it wasn't up to me. :]

Have you tried it with snipers yet?  I have not, but the math says its at least 20% weaker per shot ( and that is if you take the damage options for cloak ).  The at least is because the rank 6 sniper damage bonus is a multiplier.

On my claymore build ( only take rank 4 of cloak for damage ) what you say about damage builds looks like its true at least by my experience in the one gold game I played last night ( I got the 10 revive medal even with reduced duration ).

Well the thing about high damage builds is that even with all that damage, a lot of it will go to waste on anything but a boss because of shieldgate, and the ammount of hp the enemy has. That 25% extra damage that was lost off the damage build usually went to waste just because I was already dealing more damage than the enemies could take, even without consumables.

I could be a bit biased on this because I use a widow X and I have to admit I get about 75% of my shots as headshots, even if I know the enemy doesnt need a headshot to be dropped in one shot.

[Lord Rosario]

ryoldschool wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

ryoldschool wrote...

You say the nerf is great, but that it does not affect you.   So, why is it great?  Because it might affect other players?

Edit: Also chucking on some comsumables will not get near the damage back to sniper rifles.

A lvl 3 sniper consumable will increase your sniper damage by 30% and a gear will increase it anywhere from 5% at lvl 1 and 15% at lvl 5. I don't even know what the lvl 4 consumables do for damage increase, but I know that it is far more than the 15% sniper damage loss even including the extra 10% shave off of the TC's damage. a single lvl 3 sniper amp already accounts for more than that.

Edit: Also forgot all about the headshot VI. That adds another 100% damage to headshots.

And as I posted a couple of times those same bonuses are 15% less after this nerf.   Since the rank 6 sniper bonus is a multiplier that multiplier affects all that gear bonuses you tack on.  So you can never get the same damage back.

So with 100% more damage to headshots, 35% damage boost from warp rounds, 30% sniper boost, and more from whatever your gear consists of wouldn't make up for that 15% multiplyer? On top of all that there are new lvl 4 boosts that do even more than that. Don't know their exact numbers though.

Dunno why I'm even arguing this point.. that many consumables being wasted just makes me cringe.