It doesn't make sense to have an infiltrator that can't infiltrate lol. How does a cloaking systrm give u dmg but no cloak. You can't explain that!
Are u happy with the TC change?
Débuté par
Essian
, juin 27 2012 07:26
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#152
Posté 29 juin 2012 - 04:30
shadowkinz
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I still think cloak time should be 8 stock and 16 speced
#153
Posté 29 juin 2012 - 04:39
Javo2357
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I like the change because it really let's you make a decision between both the evolutions in rank 4 and choose between pure damage and utility. It feels more balanced now but I am hoping that the SR's get buffed a bit maybe to compensate for the SR damage reduction in TC for those that want to still play infil with an SR and also make them more viable for non-infiltrators.
#154
Posté 29 juin 2012 - 04:49
codename2o2
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In all honesty: No, I am not completely happy with this change but it happened so time to suck it up.
The Damage nerf I can live with once I get my operative package past I or when they give all snipers a slight buff in damage.
The duration nerf in the way it was executed was uncalled for. If they had taken the duration and slashed it down to 6 seconds, then for the 4th evo bump it to 12 seconds, that would've been far more reasonable than what we have now. Or simply buff the 3rd evo to 40~50%, that would be equally satisfactory. I can only think of the change they made to it now as a sort of knee-jerk reaction to the situation.
But I digress. We have what we have so time to make the most of it. QFI is still my favorite class and I won't stop using her.
The Damage nerf I can live with once I get my operative package past I or when they give all snipers a slight buff in damage.
The duration nerf in the way it was executed was uncalled for. If they had taken the duration and slashed it down to 6 seconds, then for the 4th evo bump it to 12 seconds, that would've been far more reasonable than what we have now. Or simply buff the 3rd evo to 40~50%, that would be equally satisfactory. I can only think of the change they made to it now as a sort of knee-jerk reaction to the situation.
But I digress. We have what we have so time to make the most of it. QFI is still my favorite class and I won't stop using her.
#155
Posté 29 juin 2012 - 05:33
Cundu_Ertur
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After the Krysae, every third topic was some one complaining how sniping infiltrators were massively OP. Before the Krysae there were two guys who would make about one topic a week (and this has been a happy week for those guys) about how bad infiltrators were, but that was about it. Krysae shows up and wham endless complaining.Lee80alabama wrote...
Cundu_Ertur wrote...
Not for non-snipers, who lose less than even that; they're hardly touched at all. There's a half dozen threads "Hardly noticed the change" from shotgun infiltrators. Well, yeah. Shotgun infiltrators weren't touched.death_for_sale wrote...
As has been shown in other threads the change basically altered your damage output by 13%-15%, depending on which consumables you use.
And not for those who now spec for duration, who lose much much much much more.
I understand the need to make for distinct styles, but that's one much too many.
Encouraging teamwork how, exactly?
It wasn't meant to encourage teamwork, the changes were brought about because too many people were playing as infiltrators on gold. The thing is people who love playing the class still will. I just hope they don't nerf it again in an attempt to further force diveresty. My main question is was infiltrators being more common really that big of an issue?
I understand the need for diversity, except THIS WON'T DO IT. A lot of infiltrators will go shotgun/max damage. The rest will stay sniper/max damage.
Here's a thought, I've been pushing to move the -10 nerf to rank 4, but what if we don't do that. Base bonus stays 40%, but at rank 4 the damage bonus is 20% instead of 40%. Put the other 20% in the rank 5 melee damage slot that hardly anyone ever takes. Now there's 4 options: 80% damage bonus, but shorter duration and longer cooldown; longer duration (still think it should be +200% for duration), 60% damage bonus but longer cooldown; short cooldown, short duration, 60% damage bonus; or for maximum utility long duration, short cooldown, but 40% damage. NOW there's variations.
#156
Posté 29 juin 2012 - 05:36
Psyriph
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NO I'm not happy at all this this nerf is totally BS....why wait so long to do nothing then all of a sudden nerf it now.....1 step away from just calling it quits now TY Bioware....
#157
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Posté 29 juin 2012 - 05:38
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Wyld Star wrote...
Cundu_Ertur wrote...
Not for non-snipers, who lose less than even that; they're hardly touched at all. There's a half dozen threads "Hardly noticed the change" from shotgun infiltrators. Well, yeah. Shotgun infiltrators weren't touched.
And not for those who now spec for duration, who lose much much much much more.
I understand the need to make for distinct styles, but that's one much too many.
Encouraging teamwork how, exactly?
This is sort of the crux of my problem with the whole "nerf"... SG infils basically took a 10% hit in damage. That's it. And, ofc, with the SGs everyone uses (GPS, Claymore, Reegar) it makes... about 0 difference. The only thing that has changed is that everyone has to participate in the 1234 objectives now. Which is not really a problem... groups without infils have been doing it since the beginning of the game, even on gold. Infils are still simply the best, easiest choice for gold, bar none.
Non-snipers were nerfed more than 10% in damage. If you have ever played a shotgun infiltrator on Gold you know that the cloak duration allowed you to flank and prep for your exit strategy; much more than a sniper infiltrator who is trying to stay far away from the enemy.
Now you have to take into consideration whether or not you want super awesome damage or the mobility that duration gives you.
#158
Posté 29 juin 2012 - 05:48
Cundu_Ertur
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Is that the Shakespeare translation for, "Ahhh, yes. 'Fun.' We have dismissed that claim?"Fun? What is this "fun" thou speakest of? Pray tell, what purpose do these serve?
Outside of FBWGG snipers have that consideration, too, and lower multiplier for sniper damage. It sucks all around, but for some builds/playstyles it sucks much less.Now you have to take into consideration whether or not you want super awesome damage or the mobility that duration gives you.
#159
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Posté 29 juin 2012 - 05:53
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Cundu_Ertur wrote...
After the Krysae, every third topic was some one complaining how sniping infiltrators were massively OP. Before the Krysae there were two guys who would make about one topic a week (and this has been a happy week for those guys) about how bad infiltrators were, but that was about it. Krysae shows up and wham endless complaining.Lee80alabama wrote...
Cundu_Ertur wrote...
Not for non-snipers, who lose less than even that; they're hardly touched at all. There's a half dozen threads "Hardly noticed the change" from shotgun infiltrators. Well, yeah. Shotgun infiltrators weren't touched.death_for_sale wrote...
As has been shown in other threads the change basically altered your damage output by 13%-15%, depending on which consumables you use.
And not for those who now spec for duration, who lose much much much much more.
I understand the need to make for distinct styles, but that's one much too many.
Encouraging teamwork how, exactly?
It wasn't meant to encourage teamwork, the changes were brought about because too many people were playing as infiltrators on gold. The thing is people who love playing the class still will. I just hope they don't nerf it again in an attempt to further force diveresty. My main question is was infiltrators being more common really that big of an issue?
I understand the need for diversity, except THIS WON'T DO IT. A lot of infiltrators will go shotgun/max damage. The rest will stay sniper/max damage.
Here's a thought, I've been pushing to move the -10 nerf to rank 4, but what if we don't do that. Base bonus stays 40%, but at rank 4 the damage bonus is 20% instead of 40%. Put the other 20% in the rank 5 melee damage slot that hardly anyone ever takes. Now there's 4 options: 80% damage bonus, but shorter duration and longer cooldown; longer duration (still think it should be +200% for duration), 60% damage bonus but longer cooldown; short cooldown, short duration, 60% damage bonus; or for maximum utility long duration, short cooldown, but 40% damage. NOW there's variations.
The Krysae merely highlighted an existing problem that has been talked about since the beginning. Infiltrators were one of the 3 god classes. Engineers with Decoy and Adepts/Sentinels with Biotic Explosions completed this triangle that semi-skilled people thought were REQUIRED for any Gold Match.
Decoys were balanced, Biotic Explosions were balanced, and it was only a matter of time before Infiltrators also were subjected to this. The first salvo was to try and balance Hunter Mode, which made an already OP class just silly. Any class where you can 4-5 shot a Boss is beyond broken and I played a GI because of this, it was super easy to get credits and control games that sub-par people couldn't help with. I also knew it would not last forever because of how easy it was. When the balance of Hunter Mode did not solve the overriding issue, the writing was on the wall.
Nobody who plays an Infiltrator can honestly say that they did not make matches much simpler, even compensating for bad players on the team. Now they have to make hard choices; do I take duration and evolution 6 damage so that I can have utility, do I take full damage knowing that I have less time to setup shots and can't run around with near impunity, or if I plan on being a Shotgun Infiltrator, do I pass up extra damage so that I can manuever/flank/plan an exit strategy since I am in the middle of the enemy most of the time?
There are still people playing Infiltrators and you can still play one effectively. What you can't do is do everything and cover for poor teammates, which is the situation most other classes face. Welcome to equality.
#160
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Posté 29 juin 2012 - 06:00
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Cundu_Ertur wrote...
Is that the Shakespeare translation for, "Ahhh, yes. 'Fun.' We have dismissed that claim?"Fun? What is this "fun" thou speakest of? Pray tell, what purpose do these serve?
Outside of FBWGG snipers have that consideration, too, and lower multiplier for sniper damage. It sucks all around, but for some builds/playstyles it sucks much less.Now you have to take into consideration whether or not you want super awesome damage or the mobility that duration gives you.
Actually it is a quote from Princess Luna, my favorite Pony.
Outside of FBWGG there is some need for movement, but nowhere near the amount that a Shotgun Infiltrator needs to avoid very risky situations. If I am sniping, I am also planning where I need to move to setup my next cover spot to avoid being overrun. If I am using a shotgun, I am in the middle of the spawn and trying to determine how to get out or take cover till I can recloak for my next shot.
Finally, as a sniper with a full damage spec, you are still getting a multiplicative bonus from evo 4 and 6. So you lose from 13%-15% vs 10% for a Shotgunner who is taking far more risk from the shortened duration. Whoever decided on these balance options knew how the class works and hit it where it needed to be hit.
#161
Posté 29 juin 2012 - 06:08
Cundu_Ertur
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Here I thought Tali was your favorite pony, going by your avatar.
#162
Posté 29 juin 2012 - 06:23
Mindlog
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I disagree. The choice will always be fairly obvious until a proper change is made.death_for_sale wrote...
Now they have to make hard choices;
I won't take duration even on a solo Gold build.
#163
Posté 29 juin 2012 - 06:26
Siansonea
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I don't play Infiltrators, and I don't play recklessly expecting to be rezzed by Infiltrators, so this doesn't affect me.
#164
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Posté 29 juin 2012 - 06:28
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Mindlog wrote...
I disagree. The choice will always be fairly obvious until a proper change is made.death_for_sale wrote...
Now they have to make hard choices;
I won't take duration even on a solo Gold build.
That is your option, many will choose otherwise.
#165
Posté 29 juin 2012 - 06:28
Psyriph
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Siansonea II wrote...
I don't play Infiltrators, and I don't play recklessly expecting to be rezzed by Infiltrators, so this doesn't affect me.
Then why even post this if i might ask? the name of the thread is are you happy with the Tactical Cloak change?
#166
Posté 29 juin 2012 - 06:30
Mindlog
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Clearly it's my opinion.death_for_sale wrote...
Mindlog wrote...
I disagree. The choice will always be fairly obvious until a proper change is made.death_for_sale wrote...
Now they have to make hard choices;
I won't take duration even on a solo Gold build.
That is your option, many will choose otherwise.
Unfortunately I have yet to run into any of the Duration specced Infiltrators.
#167
Posté 29 juin 2012 - 06:33
darkpassenger2342
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I am perfectly happy with the infiltrator change, you still have plenty of time to raise people with the 5 secs, and the new ammos make up for dmg loss.
#168
Posté 29 juin 2012 - 06:38
Cundu_Ertur
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I respecced one for duration, and hated it. Couldn't hurt anything. Respecced for damage, and hated it. Couldn't move around for squat. Got wiped on a 4 objective mission, wave 6. Odd, I keep hearing that non-infiltrators have no problem with objectives at all, ever. Yet three non infiltrators wiped right after I did.
Curious.
So I promoted, and haven't made the choice at rank 4 yet. Both choices suck, but damage sucks less.
Curious.
So I promoted, and haven't made the choice at rank 4 yet. Both choices suck, but damage sucks less.
#169
Posté 29 juin 2012 - 06:41
Mysteryman2000
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The tactical cloak was the only thing that was keeping the geth infiltrator afloat. I can't even do the part of the objective with the time for base tactical cloak and this just ruined the entire build for infiltrator cases.
#170
Posté 29 juin 2012 - 06:42
darkpassenger2342
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Mysteryman2000 wrote...
The tactical cloak was the only thing that was keeping the geth infiltrator afloat. I can't even do the part of the objective with the time for base tactical cloak and this just ruined the entire build for infiltrator cases.
the geth infiltrator is still the strongest character in the game, with Every gun. what are you talking about?
#171
Posté 29 juin 2012 - 06:44
Bluebeam2012
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The 4 sec duration was really bull. whenever i die when I revive someone or hack 4 terminals/boosters, i'll just tell them : "it wouldn't have happen if the duration wasn't nerf, so don't blame me."
#172
Posté 29 juin 2012 - 06:45
Holy-Hamster
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If you can't do objectives with a 4 seconds of cloak you're doing it wrong.
waaaaaaaaaahhhh I'm being shot
So shoot back
waaaaaaaaaahhhh I'm being shot
So shoot back
#173
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Posté 29 juin 2012 - 06:47
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Mindlog wrote...
Clearly it's my opinion.death_for_sale wrote...
Mindlog wrote...
I disagree. The choice will always be fairly obvious until a proper change is made.death_for_sale wrote...
Now they have to make hard choices;
I won't take duration even on a solo Gold build.
That is your option, many will choose otherwise.
Unfortunately I have yet to run into any of the Duration specced Infiltrators.
It is your opinion and you have the 'option' to not select duration. I specced my GI for duration and haven't noticed much of a difference. I think once a little time passes, you will see more. Right now the knee jerk reaction will be, OMG I CANT DMG, followed by more of a competent group that wants to be multipurpose.
#174
Posté 29 juin 2012 - 06:47
Mysteryman2000
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darkpassenger2342 wrote...
Mysteryman2000 wrote...
The tactical cloak was the only thing that was keeping the geth infiltrator afloat. I can't even do the part of the objective with the time for base tactical cloak and this just ruined the entire build for infiltrator cases.
the geth infiltrator is still the strongest character in the game, with Every gun. what are you talking about?
The simple fact that I can't move on gold or I get killed. I nearly wasted two supplies of Cerberus Harrier ammo to kill one Prime. For the amount of damage being done, you can't get away as easily. And when people don't choose a infiltrator with the 150% cloak, getting the objectives done will become even harder. Never liked going out to do them as the geth, now it is going to stink more. Build for duration your damage stinks. Build for damage duration stinks, try for both and you can't do anything.
#175
Posté 29 juin 2012 - 06:49
DarkSpooky
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Hate it like nothing else, that and the HM nerf. Should have buffed the few classes that sucked instead nerfing the one class that worked.
