209 réponses à ce sujet

[MrDavid]

[WolfyZA]

According to twitter they said it will never approve or disprove of the theory.. I guess they lied...

[N-Seven]

Tango One wrote...

Felis Menari wrote...

Dawgrum wrote...

Not sure if anyone has pointed this out yet but...

SHEP WAS SHOT BY MARAUDER SHIELDS BEFORE ENTERING THE BEAM.

If you go back and play, it is very clear this is where his bullet wound comes from. They even make a point of it in the EC. MS shoots first, your screen turns red with blood splatter, and then you dispatch him and keep going.

Sorry IT guys but this is one point that has been put to bed.

If you pay attention to the marauder shields segment, you will actually notice where Shep takes the hit (right shoulder). The scene with Anderson/TIM shows the gun shot wound to be on Shep's left side. So you would be incorrect. Not trying to say "Haha, a victory for IT!". Just letting you know that you got it wrong, is all.

After Shepard is shot by Marauder shields, he holds his shoulder several times during the final cut scenes. His hand would be covered in blood from trying to stop the bleeding.

I would also think It's plausible to think he would be bleeding from a whole bunch of places, because you know...a gigantic red laser beam caused a massive explosion right in front of him a moment ago.  His face is cut, he's limping, etc.  He has numerous wounds, probably some internal bleeding as well.  

[WolfyZA]

Still doesn't explain the unlimited ammo gun though... Unless that was just laziness from the devs saying "your almost there, here we gave you unlimited ammo so that you can finish the game in the next 7 minutes!"

[N-Seven]

WolfyZA wrote...

Still doesn't explain the unlimited ammo gun though... Unless that was just laziness from the devs saying "your almost there, here we gave you unlimited ammo so that you can finish the game in the next 7 minutes!"

Exactly.  Gameplay mechanics of the scene.  Throughout ME1 - ME3 I believe there were some points where there was unlimited ammo in your pistol, for tutorial purposes.   Also why there are no powers available, its always a pistol even though you don't necessarily carry one, etc.   It's the gameplay mechanics of this scene. 

[STJebus]

I have 2 questions. if someone could answer them that would be awesome.
1. Why do you guys seem to hate the IT so bad? Could you tell me why you don't want it to be true? (not why it isn't true but why you don't want it to be)
and
2. Could someone give me direct evidence that the IT is dead. You keep asking us to support the idea with evidence and then shutting that evidence down. Could you please bring 3-5 (if that's not to much to ask for) reasons/Hard evidence from the EC that PROVE the IT is dead. All I've read so far in this thread is "It's DEAD", "EC proves it's dead", "Bioware didn't confirm it so it's not true"... That's not evidence... i can say the same things back. "it's TRUE", "EC Confirms it", Bioware didn't deny it so it's true"... anyway so ya some concrete evidence, that i will be glad to criticize and dissect with you, would be nice

[N7Gold]

Let it go man. The IT theory is a well thought out, intelligent theory, but there's no reason to keep grasping straws now.

[Carlthestrange]

The comprehensive IT workout!

Okay. Take out your straws.

And clutch! And clutch! And clutch!

Good! Feel the burn!

[Fangalho]

@STJebus
I'll answer question one for you:

I love the IT. I really do. I don't believe it for one second, but i love it.
What people hate is not the IT. Trust me. People hate the hardcore rude IT believers.

I remember , once, i made the fatal mistake of trying to discuss why i thought the IT was not gonna happen (Again, let me remind you i love this theory).
I was insulted and called "dumb" .
Now, internet insults are about as hurtfull as a being slapped in the butcheeks by a kitten but they are still insults.
From that day, i never discussed the IT on the internet . And to be honest, from that day the IT lost a bit of it's shine to me because i felt kinda pissed for loving something so many rude people did.

I realize not everyone that supports IT is like this, of course i do. But .. check around the BSN and you will see i'm not that far from wrong.

My 2 cents.
(MY BODY IS READY FOR FLAMES)

[STJebus]

@Fangalho
haha that makes. But just by reading this thread it seems that some of the non IT people can be just as rude... Anyway i assure you I just want to have a Level headed conversation or debate on why it is or isn't true. My friends don;t play mass effect so i can't talk to them . I've come to the conclusion that many people think the IT isn't true, because if it is then they still haven't killed the reapers, Which is the whole point of IT. That the final battle is a battle of the mind. This goes along with the theme of Hope that is ever so present in Mass Effect. In the end you may win or you may lose, once Shepard wakes up, but it doesn't matter because by beating indoctrination it Shows that the reapers Can be beat. It gives hope your cycle or ones to follow (in the players mind). it shows that they're not all powerful and can control anyone. it shows that they're wrong. So no i do not expect Bioware to release an extended extended cut with the shepard killing the reapers after he wakes up, nor do i necessarily want them to. Ya it'd be cool to kill Harby and the rest of the reapers, but in my mind i did... i beat them at there own game.. . i showed them (by beating indoctrination) that i'm not just gonna roll over and die cause you asked me to, cause they said they were all powerful... **** that we will fight you. anyway that's my two cents

[STJebus]

Also PS sorry for the lack of paragraphs and high probability of spelling and grammatical errors, but i'm at work trying not to get caught by my boss haha

[Tango One]

WolfyZA wrote...

Still doesn't explain the unlimited ammo gun though... Unless that was just laziness from the devs saying "your almost there, here we gave you unlimited ammo so that you can finish the game in the next 7 minutes!"

I wouldn't call it laziness but it is consistent with other similiar encounters and cut scenes in the game where you use a heavy pistol even if your Shep isn't carrying one at the time.

During the final part of the EVA encounter, you seem to have unlimited ammo for your heavy pistol. Why I didn't hose her down with my assault rifle or blast her with my shotgun, I'll never know. I chalk it up to dramatic license.

[XiT xIronmanx]

Tango One wrote...

WolfyZA wrote...

Still doesn't explain the unlimited ammo gun though... Unless that was just laziness from the devs saying "your almost there, here we gave you unlimited ammo so that you can finish the game in the next 7 minutes!"

I wouldn't call it laziness but it is consistent with other similiar encounters and cut scenes in the game where you use a heavy pistol even if your Shep isn't carrying one at the time.

During the final part of the EVA encounter, you seem to have unlimited ammo for your heavy pistol. Why I didn't hose her down with my assault rifle or blast her with my shotgun, I'll never know. I chalk it up to dramatic license.

You're absolutely right. There were numerous times throughout ME3 where my Mantis was replaced with the Avenger. Wait, that must mean it's all a dream right!? I was indoctrinated... No, it's just a development choice. They made many poor development choices throughout the ME series but for some reason, everyone wants to highlight the ones that happened at the end of ME3 and then scream "INDOCTRINATION."

[XiT xIronmanx]

STJebus wrote...

@Fangalho
haha that makes. But just by reading this thread it seems that some of the non IT people can be just as rude... Anyway i assure you I just want to have a Level headed conversation or debate on why it is or isn't true. My friends don;t play mass effect so i can't talk to them . I've come to the conclusion that many people think the IT isn't true, because if it is then they still haven't killed the reapers, Which is the whole point of IT. That the final battle is a battle of the mind. This goes along with the theme of Hope that is ever so present in Mass Effect. In the end you may win or you may lose, once Shepard wakes up, but it doesn't matter because by beating indoctrination it Shows that the reapers Can be beat. It gives hope your cycle or ones to follow (in the players mind). it shows that they're not all powerful and can control anyone. it shows that they're wrong. So no i do not expect Bioware to release an extended extended cut with the shepard killing the reapers after he wakes up, nor do i necessarily want them to. Ya it'd be cool to kill Harby and the rest of the reapers, but in my mind i did... i beat them at there own game.. . i showed them (by beating indoctrination) that i'm not just gonna roll over and die cause you asked me to, cause they said they were all powerful... **** that we will fight you. anyway that's my two cents

It's not Indoctrination. Please let it go. Have you done the 4th choice? That proves right there that it is not indoctrination and that we wouldn't win if we simply fought them. If there was a choice that was the "refusal" of indoctrination, if in fact it was indoctrination, then that 4th choice would be it and clearly, if he "beat" the indoctrination, we would still lose. But, because that option is there, it's presence alone proves indoctrination theory is false. 

[weltraumhamster89]

I think they just wanted to leave everything up to interpretation still (also with the Shep_lives ending). That's all it is really.

[STJebus]

How does refusal deny IT?... Harbinger little illusion puppet gets mad at you, loses his cool and speaks in harbingers voice, at the fact that you don't want to play his little indoctrination game... and then to break your spirit shows you a a scene (in your head) of you losing... just like he does in the arrival dlc... just like he tries to everytime you fight him "resistance is futile"... "you cannot win"... it fits perfectly into harby's character... i don't see how it "utterly destroys".. "headshots"... or "kills" the IT. They didn't show shepard waking up after refusal cause they didnt want to confirm or denie the IT with the EC... and if he woke up after it would have DEFINITELY proved the IT... so if you were making something to please all ur fans... and there are a fair amount that like IT and hate it... would you not just leave so thats its still up for speculation? why ****** off more people when ur making something in hope of pleasing them?

Modifié par STJebus, 28 juin 2012 - 06:51 .

[RealStyli]

STJebus wrote...

How does refusal deny IT?... Harbinger little illusion puppet gets mad at you, loses his cool and speaks in harbingers voice, at the fact that you don't want to play his little indoctrination game... and then to break your spirit shows you a a scene (in your head) of you losing... just like he does in the arrival dlc... just like he tries to everytime you fight him "resistance is futile"... "you cannot win"... it fits perfectly into harby's character... i don't see how it "utterly destroys".. "headshots"... or "kills" the IT

Exactly. My IT interpretation of that ending is that it means Shep dies rather than becoming indoctrinated (Control/Synthesis) or breaking free (Destroy). Perhaps he becomes a husk? Just what I would think. However, at this stage, I'm not a die hard IT believer any more. I think it's a great interpretation but it's not BioWare's idea, it's the community's idea. I don't think BioWare will outright deny it just in case they decide to pick it up and run with it.

The endings now mostly work without it but IT is just brilliant in terms of remaining true to the Mass Effect lore, unlike the "real" endings.

[chidingewe8036]

Bioware just screwed up ME3 period in alot more ways than one. I am a IT believer as far as the crap endings are concerned (that includes that crappy lazy a** EC) but overall the game was a darn mess in all I think hardcore fans know that deep down but are just accepting it because there is nothing we can actually do about it except b**** and moan on the BSN hoping the devs are actually paying attention.

[Fingertrip]

I'm overwhelmed by the sheer quantity of uneducated mass effect players.

If you dont' think Indoctriantion is a fact, you're just not a Mass Effect fan at all. Just go back to CoD or something, or whatever black hole you came from.

[Billyg3453]

Fingertrip wrote...

I'm overwhelmed by the sheer quantity of uneducated mass effect players.

If you dont' think Indoctriantion is a fact, you're just not a Mass Effect fan at all. Just go back to CoD or something, or whatever black hole you came from.

Please be a joke... Please

[STJebus]

RealStyli wrote...

STJebus wrote...

How does refusal deny IT?... Harbinger little illusion puppet gets mad at you, loses his cool and speaks in harbingers voice, at the fact that you don't want to play his little indoctrination game... and then to break your spirit shows you a a scene (in your head) of you losing... just like he does in the arrival dlc... just like he tries to everytime you fight him "resistance is futile"... "you cannot win"... it fits perfectly into harby's character... i don't see how it "utterly destroys".. "headshots"... or "kills" the IT

Exactly. My IT interpretation of that ending is that it means Shep dies rather than becoming indoctrinated (Control/Synthesis) or breaking free (Destroy). Perhaps he becomes a husk? Just what I would think. However, at this stage, I'm not a die hard IT believer any more. I think it's a great interpretation but it's not BioWare's idea, it's the community's idea. I don't think BioWare will outright deny it just in case they decide to pick it up and run with it.

The endings now mostly work without it but IT is just brilliant in terms of remaining true to the Mass Effect lore, unlike the "real" endings.

I agree that it was probably not there intent and still probably in not, but that does not mean the IT is dead. it does not mean it's wrong... it most certainly does not mean Bioware denied it or said it was wrong.. and it definitely does not mean that it no longer works... beacuse it does work. And for the Nay sayers... I ask you again... Bring me concrete evidence that the IT CAN'T work... no one has been able to show that it doesn't work, that it doesnt fit. Also while i'm at it i'd like for you to prove your theory (that the indoctrination theory is incorrect) right. by this i mean explain things that are only explained by the IT. i'll start with 2 things

1. How does shepard survive Harbingers Beam? That beam blew up buildings, ships, and incinerated people. How does Shepard survive that? he's not a god ( not yet at least, not until he touches those two blue glowing things)
and
2. Why does the godchilds voice change to Harbingers voice when he says "SO BE IT" in the refusal ending? if the IT is incorrect then Harby isn't behind the child illusion so it would then have no reason or purpose to switch to his voice... so y does it?

[STJebus]

Bump... Can anyone answer my question(s)?

[shodiswe]

This is just, unbelivable... Actualy... no it's not.. it's just the way these things usualy evolve... I've already pointed it out before... Even when proven wrong true belivers will always make up something new. It's happend before it will happen again.

[Tango One]

STJebus wrote...

RealStyli wrote...

STJebus wrote...

How does refusal deny IT?... Harbinger little illusion puppet gets mad at you, loses his cool and speaks in harbingers voice, at the fact that you don't want to play his little indoctrination game... and then to break your spirit shows you a a scene (in your head) of you losing... just like he does in the arrival dlc... just like he tries to everytime you fight him "resistance is futile"... "you cannot win"... it fits perfectly into harby's character... i don't see how it "utterly destroys".. "headshots"... or "kills" the IT

Exactly. My IT interpretation of that ending is that it means Shep dies rather than becoming indoctrinated (Control/Synthesis) or breaking free (Destroy). Perhaps he becomes a husk? Just what I would think. However, at this stage, I'm not a die hard IT believer any more. I think it's a great interpretation but it's not BioWare's idea, it's the community's idea. I don't think BioWare will outright deny it just in case they decide to pick it up and run with it.

The endings now mostly work without it but IT is just brilliant in terms of remaining true to the Mass Effect lore, unlike the "real" endings.

I agree that it was probably not there intent and still probably in not, but that does not mean the IT is dead. it does not mean it's wrong... it most certainly does not mean Bioware denied it or said it was wrong.. and it definitely does not mean that it no longer works... beacuse it does work. And for the Nay sayers... I ask you again... Bring me concrete evidence that the IT CAN'T work... no one has been able to show that it doesn't work, that it doesnt fit. Also while i'm at it i'd like for you to prove your theory (that the indoctrination theory is incorrect) right. by this i mean explain things that are only explained by the IT. i'll start with 2 things

1. How does shepard survive Harbingers Beam? That beam blew up buildings, ships, and incinerated people. How does Shepard survive that? he's not a god ( not yet at least, not until he touches those two blue glowing things)
and
2. Why does the godchilds voice change to Harbingers voice when he says "SO BE IT" in the refusal ending? if the IT is incorrect then Harby isn't behind the child illusion so it would then have no reason or purpose to switch to his voice... so y does it?

1) Dramatic license and storytelling go a long way. There are lots of moments across all three games where anyone other than Shepard would have died. Remember the ending of the first game with him climbing out of the rubble? How did he survive? The writers never said how he managed to avoid being crushed by the rubble but he did. It would have been a lot less dramatic if he walked away from the Saren fight without a mark on him. Look at mass effect 2. How did he survive the fall after the human reaper was destroyed? There isn't a clear cut reason given. It's handwaved for the sake of the story and left up to the player's immagination. Maybe the beam wasn't a direct hit? Maybe Shepard got lucky? Maybe Shepard's extensive implants allowed him to survive where others couldn't? In the end, it doesn't matter how he survived because the scene is there for dramatic purposes just like switching points of view to see the alliance fleet in action in the first game and the third one.

2) If you go through all the dialogue choices for information about the origins of the godchild and the reapers, the reaper like voice at the end could be explained a number of ways. If I was trying to talk Shepard into sparing the reapers and joining with them then I wouldn't want to sound like a reaper. I would also assume a form that might be less threatening.

If you want to believe the refusal ending is hard proof that IT is a reality then it's your right to do so. In my opinion, you're wrong and giving too much credit to Bioware. The fans breathed life into this idea and it's theirs. I applaud Bioware for not pulling an "I meant to do that" and going with the indoctrination theory. It would have been an easy way out for them as well as a way to milk the francise. In this case, they stayed true to whatever artistic vision they had for the ending and made it more enjoyable.

[MrNose]

Fingertrip wrote...

I'm overwhelmed by the sheer quantity of uneducated mass effect players.

If you dont' think Indoctriantion is a fact, you're just not a Mass Effect fan at all. Just go back to CoD or something, or whatever black hole you came from.

You are the worst type of poster.

Modifié par MrNose, 29 juin 2012 - 04:05 .