505 réponses à ce sujet

[Geneaux486]

Ryzaki wrote...
Shep threw a light into the future, future cycles took that light and pwn'd the Reapers without buying Starbrat's BS and RGB endings.

That's just it though, the Crucible is an organic weapon, therefore its solutions are of organic origin as well.  Any of the three choices is a refusal of the Catalyst's logic.

[wantedman dan]

Ryzaki wrote...

Seriously. I was all content with that ending before hand too. Blargh. Sure it needed some fleshing out but hey it did what I wanted it to do. Shep threw a light into the future, future cycles took that light and pwn'd the Reapers without buying Starbrat's BS and RGB endings.

But noooooooo. Can't have that.

Oh, so was I.

I thought, "Yeah, they learned from our mistakes and built some big goddamn-Reaper-killing weapons and destroyed them conventionally. That's why they have peace."

But NO.

Ryzaki wrote...

I don't have a monopoly on being superior in this thread. 

But I do. 

Modifié par wantedman dan, 29 juin 2012 - 05:13 .

[Unfallen_Satan]

When it comes to freedom of interpretation, the less said the better. True, Liara says in her recording that they failed and so forth... However, she was clearly alive when she made it. Unless the Reapers were at the door to her hide-out and killed her right after, who knows what happened? Even if all the major civilizations were destroyed. Shepard might have found his way off the station and went to live with Liara in hiding. They could still have little blue children as part of the resistance movement (or survivalist movement, whatever). The last Prothean somehow survived, didn't he? I also seem to remember what's his name say that it took generations for the Reapers to systematically hunt down and exterminate every Prothean, I think the major species wouldn't go extinct during Shepard's lifetime if he survived, maybe Liara's. A life of determined survival in the face of certain extinction with the woman I love, that has a feel of The Last Samurai to me. Very romantic.

[KingZayd]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Shep threw a light into the future, future cycles took that light and pwn'd the Reapers without buying Starbrat's BS and RGB endings.

That's just it though, the Crucible is an organic weapon, therefore its solutions are of organic origin as well.  Any of the three choices is a refusal of the Catalyst's logic.

But that doesn't quite make sense. Are we expected to believe one of those races decided that what an anti-Reaper weapon really needed was a Synthesis function? Why did they?

[wantedman dan]

KingZayd wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Shep threw a light into the future, future cycles took that light and pwn'd the Reapers without buying Starbrat's BS and RGB endings.

That's just it though, the Crucible is an organic weapon, therefore its solutions are of organic origin as well.  Any of the three choices is a refusal of the Catalyst's logic.

But that doesn't quite make sense. Are we expected to believe one of those races decided that what an anti-Reaper weapon really needed was a Synthesis function? Why did they?

Mac Walters knows how to time travel.

[Ticonderoga117]

KingZayd wrote...
But that doesn't quite make sense. Are we expected to believe one of those races decided that what an anti-Reaper weapon really needed was a Synthesis function? Why did they?

"You know, I'm tired of having to carry my Wi-Fi hotspot around all day, I want it to be... like a part of me. Hey! If we could do that, then we could just put a computer in our heads! Hey Bob....!"   

[Geneaux486]

KingZayd wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Shep threw a light into the future, future cycles took that light and pwn'd the Reapers without buying Starbrat's BS and RGB endings.

That's just it though, the Crucible is an organic weapon, therefore its solutions are of organic origin as well.  Any of the three choices is a refusal of the Catalyst's logic.

But that doesn't quite make sense. Are we expected to believe one of those races decided that what an anti-Reaper weapon really needed was a Synthesis function? Why did they?

Most likely because they percieved that the rift in understanding between synthetics and organics was a real, but solvable problem.  Either way the Catalyst admits that the Crucible can do what he cannot, so obviously synthesis came from somewhere else.

[Ryzaki]

wantedman dan wrote...

Oh, so was I.

I thought, "Yeah, they learned from our mistakes and built some big goddamn-Reaper-killing weapons and destroyed them conventionally. That's why they have peace."

But NO.

Seriously why! What was so wrong with that ending?!? What was so wrong with a cycle with forewarning (far more than Shep's cycle got) defeating the Reapers conventionally? The damn robots are clearly not undefeatable if you use sound tactics even when Shep's cycle was vastly outnumbered and outgunned! With knowledge of their weakenesses and time to develop anti-Reaper weapons? AND the Reapers have a hibernation cycle that they're weak in? AND they have a hivemind that directs them? I just mean..wat? WHY THE HELL CAN'T THEY BE DEFEATED CONVENTIONALLY IN THE NEXT CYCLE?!? *sorry about the all caps it just...it makes me rage.

But I do.

[xsdob]

I thought it was because simple mathematics based on the games propositions would say that there are more reapers than we can even begin to fight against.

The leviathan of dis is 1 billion years old according to the research team who discovered it. If each cycle is 50,000 years and they make 1 reaper each cycle, that comes out to 20,000 reapers, but the reapers don't create 1 reaper per cycle, sometimes they create more reapers, sometimes less, sometimes none at all apparently.

Too many variables, so I'm going to give the opponents a handicap and say there are only 15,000 reapers, 25% less than the formula dictates. Considering the size of the force, that only dreadnoughts or a large coordinated strike can destroy them, and that there were only 85 recorded dreadnoughts in 2186, let's bump that to 100 since the quarians and batarians were not counted but heavy losses were had by all sides, that means each dreadnought would need to take out 150 reapers each to stand a chance of winning, or at least 50 for the heavy crusiers, frigates, and other ships to even stand a chance of defeating them with smart tactics.

How does the scenario of us winning on top come into play?

I can understand not liking that shepard did nothing after refusing the choices, I disagree but can understand it. But the thought that we can win conventionally because we say we can, comes off as just being mad for the sake of not being able to give the middle finger to bioware, some would say like they did to fans, but I don't think they did since the next cycle defeats the reapers using information you gave them, like what the protheans did for you.

[wantedman dan]

Ryzaki wrote...

Seriously why! What was so wrong with that ending?!? What was so wrong with a cycle with forewarning (far more than Shep's cycle got) defeating the Reapers conventionally? The damn robots are clearly not undefeatable if you use sound tactics even when Shep's cycle was vastly outnumbered and outgunned! With knowledge of their weakenesses and time to develop anti-Reaper weapons? AND the Reapers have a hibernation cycle that they're weak in? AND they have a hivemind that directs them? I just mean..wat? WHY THE HELL CAN'T THEY BE DEFEATED CONVENTIONALLY IN THE NEXT CYCLE?!? *sorry about the all caps it just...it makes me rage.

Yes... Let the hate flow through yo--Sorry, that's my day job.

I know that feel, bro. Refusal, as it stands now, is completely and utterly absurd anyways. And it's still somehow the best ending, imo.

[Geneaux486]

Seriously why! What was so wrong with that ending?!? What was so wrong with a cycle with forewarning (far more than Shep's cycle got) defeating the Reapers conventionally?

What if the next cycle found Liara's capsule before they had their own synthetics? Then they could just pick destroy with no consequence. Why is defeating the Reapers conventionally so important when the message of galactic unity building and using the Crucible is essentially the same?

[Ryzaki]

KingZayd wrote...

Geneaux486 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
Shep threw a light into the future, future cycles took that light and pwn'd the Reapers without buying Starbrat's BS and RGB endings.

That's just it though, the Crucible is an organic weapon, therefore its solutions are of organic origin as well.  Any of the three choices is a refusal of the Catalyst's logic.

But that doesn't quite make sense. Are we expected to believe one of those races decided that what an anti-Reaper weapon really needed was a Synthesis function? Why did they?

I always thought it was indoctrination.

A part of the developing team gets indoctrinated, thinks Synthesis is a GREAT plan, they build on the Crucible, cycle doesn't find out they're indoctrinated and dispose of them until the function's already built in and in a few cycles indoctrinated cell after indoctrinated cell helps develop that part until it's such a part of the Crucible's function that no one can tell it's not supposed to be there anymore.

That's the way I justify it anyway. The thought of someone not indoctrinated thinking that's a good idea boggles me.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 juin 2012 - 05:22 .

[Ryzaki]

wantedman dan wrote...
Yes... Let the hate flow through yo--Sorry, that's my day job.

I know that feel, bro. Refusal, as it stands now, is completely and utterly absurd anyways. And it's still somehow the best ending, imo.

I always was DS in KOTOR.

LOL someone put it very sufficently BW slapped us in the face and we laughed and we (Rejecters) said "It's still the best ending!" 

[Geneaux486]

Ryzaki wrote...
A part of the developing team gets indoctrinated, thinks Synthesis is a GREAT plan, they build on the Crucible, cycle doesn't find out they're indoctrinated and dispose of them until the function's already built in and in a few cycles indoctrinated cell after indoctrinated cell helps develop that part until it's such a part of the Crucible's function that no one can tell it's not supposed to be there anymore.

This ignores the fact that the Catalyst and the Reapers didn't know how to synthesize.  He even says at one point that they tried it themselves and failed.

[wantedman dan]

Ryzaki wrote...
I always was DS in KOTOR.

LOL someone put it very sufficently BW slapped us in the face and we laughed and we (Rejecters) said "It's still the best ending!" 

I saw that post and took great pleasure from it.

[Ticonderoga117]

Ryzaki wrote...
Seriously why! What was so wrong with that ending?!? What was so wrong with a cycle with forewarning (far more than Shep's cycle got) defeating the Reapers conventionally? The damn robots are clearly not undefeatable if you use sound tactics even when Shep's cycle was vastly outnumbered and outgunned! With knowledge of their weakenesses and time to develop anti-Reaper weapons? AND the Reapers have a hibernation cycle that they're weak in? AND they have a hivemind that directs them? I just mean..wat? WHY THE HELL CAN'T THEY BE DEFEATED CONVENTIONALLY IN THE NEXT CYCLE?!? *sorry about the all caps it just...it makes me rage.

The Reapers could've been beaten in this cycle without the Crucible. It's called unconventional tactics and that ... array thing that generates real-time intel on Reaper positions Galaxy wide. Seriously, with just that one bit of tech, you could ALWAYS hit the Reapers where they are weakest, run, then repeat. They can't be everywhere in numbers otherwise we'd be SOL straight out of the gate.

[Ryzaki]

wantedman dan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
I always was DS in KOTOR.

LOL someone put it very sufficently BW slapped us in the face and we laughed and we (Rejecters) said "It's still the best ending!" 

I saw that post and took great pleasure from it.

Same. Perfectly described how I feel.

[wantedman dan]

Ryzaki wrote...

Same. Perfectly described how I feel.

What a damn shame it is, though, that the ONLY ending in which Shepard is in character, we ultimately critically fail the mission.

After seeing that ending, I calmly put away my Mass Effect series and vowed never to play it again.

[Geneaux486]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
The Reapers could've been beaten in this cycle without the Crucible. It's called unconventional tactics and that ... array thing that generates real-time intel on Reaper positions Galaxy wide. Seriously, with just that one bit of tech, you could ALWAYS hit the Reapers where they are weakest, run, then repeat. They can't be everywhere in numbers otherwise we'd be SOL straight out of the gate.

Those are the kinds of tactics the Turian military was employing, the sheer force of the Reapers rendered them ineffective.  It's what Hackett and others were doing to buy time for the Crucible's construction, and it was only effective as a delaying action.  The problem was that the Reapers were everywhere in great numbers, but the reason we didn't die right away was because the Reapers need living specimens to construct more of themselves, hence why they can be avoided for extended periods of time.

What a damn shame it is, though, that the ONLY ending in which Shepard is in character, we ultimately critically fail the mission.

After seeing that ending, I calmly put away my Mass Effect series and vowed never to play it again.

Shepard is in character in every ending, because his character is largely negotiable through choice (though if you button-mashed I guess you'd have missed the dialogue wheel), which is precisely what the ending presents.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 29 juin 2012 - 05:35 .

[Ryzaki]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...
The Reapers could've been beaten in this cycle without the Crucible. It's called unconventional tactics and that ... array thing that generates real-time intel on Reaper positions Galaxy wide. Seriously, with just that one bit of tech, you could ALWAYS hit the Reapers where they are weakest, run, then repeat. They can't be everywhere in numbers otherwise we'd be SOL straight out of the gate.

I sadly disagree. Mostly because this cycle was boned on fighting the Reapers conventionally. The military leaders for the most part were incompetent, no one believed the threat until it was far too late, they didn't have the technology needed to fight the Reaper toe to toe and win (at least not win more than a few battles) and they wasted a vast majority of their resources on the Crucible. It was either that or bust I'm afraid.

This cycle did get Prothean warnings but they were far too little too late for Shep's cycle to be able to win a conventional war. Didn't help that the Protheans left the beacons in lol telepathy!!!! when they should've known damn well the younger races weren't capable of that outside the Asari.

[Geneaux486]

Ryzaki wrote...
when they should've known damn well the younger races weren't capable of that outside the Asari.

If you'll recall, they left those beacons for their own race, on the off chance that there were more survivors outside of Illos.

[Ryzaki]

wantedman dan wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Same. Perfectly described how I feel.

What a damn shame it is, though, that the ONLY ending in which Shepard is in character, we ultimately critically fail the mission.

After seeing that ending, I calmly put away my Mass Effect series and vowed never to play it again.

Ugh yes that speech was awesome. But then Starbrat does his SO BE IT. Crap and Shep just slumps over like a chump.

Uh...HELLO? STARBRAT'S THE REAPER BRAIN! HAVE EVERYONE OPEN FIRE ON THE CITADEL!

Even if you don't win doing that it'll at least damage them! It might not completely destroy the Citadel but open fire should damage it. (Or hell even if it doesn't at least try! )

[Ryzaki]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...
when they should've known damn well the younger races weren't capable of that outside the Asari.

If you'll recall, they left those beacons for their own race, on the off chance that there were more survivors outside of Illos.

If you'll recall the first thing out of Javik's mouth after he's aware Shep saw the beacon is "why wasn't our warnings heeded human?!?" so clearly it wasn't just for the Protheans. Given their "nuturing" of the Asari you also would think they'd leave the beacons clear to understand to them (they clearly didn't understand it either. If they did it makes their gov't even MORE incompetent).

And you didn't keep up your not speaking to me thing at all did you? 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 29 juin 2012 - 05:41 .

[Ticonderoga117]

Geneaux486 wrote...
Those are the kinds of tactics the Turian military was employing, the sheer force of the Reapers rendered them ineffective.  It's what Hackett and others were doing to buy time for the Crucible's construction, and it was only effective as a delaying action.  The problem was that the Reapers were everywhere in great numbers, but the reason we didn't die right away was because the Reapers need living specimens to construct more of themselves, hence why they can be avoided for extended periods of time.

Then you set traps. You split thier forces through dividing the fleet assets you present to them, then hit the splintered groups with a hidden force. Something! Hell, improve the Geth GUARDIAN lasers. ME fields don't block them. If you can up the range, or make them an actual weapon battery instead of point defense, you suddenly have a very deadly weapon.

The Reapers don't have R&D facilites to counter that. They don't have -any- facilities really. No need.
Equip your ground troops with Cains liberally. They worked well on the Destroyer at Earth. Aim for the leg joints. Aim for the red eye. Put a nuke in the ground and get it to walk over it.

Sadly, we can argue this until the Reapers actually arrive and forcibly "ascend" us, so eh. I just frankly never bought the "Reapers are unbeatable" idea.

[Geneaux486]

Ryzaki wrote...
If you'll recall the first thing out of Javik's mouth after he's aware Shep saw the beacon is "why wasn't our warnings heeded human?!?" so clearly it wasn't just for the Protheans.

 
It was for the Protheans, but Javik knew after reading Shepard's physiology that they had heard the Prothean's warnings, hence his response.

And you didn't keep up your not speaking to me thing at all did you? 

I told you specifically that when the time came to get back to the discussion I'd start responding again, remember?  If you want to keep acting like a breying jackass, be my guest, but it isn't really going to affect me.  If I see something that's worth responding to I'm going to respond to it.  Feel free to ignore me if you still want to.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 29 juin 2012 - 05:43 .