505 réponses à ce sujet

[Ryzaki]

wantedman dan wrote...
Maybe because it is a game.

Duh. You put the disc in, it starts turning (you can hear it whirr), and you play it.

You do realize that there is life afterward, no? Not everything is about the present.

...It's horrible but this made me lol. XD 

[wantedman dan]

Ryzaki wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...
Maybe because it is a game.

Duh. You put the disc in, it starts turning (you can hear it whirr), and you play it.

You do realize that there is life afterward, no? Not everything is about the present.

...It's horrible but this made me lol. XD 

I literally read that post and shook my head in utter disbelief.

[Ryzaki]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
Well. Yeah. Which is why my advice to you earlier was to not pick Synthesis. 

Well duh. I know that. Not picking it isn't going to stop me from ragging on it though.

Geneaux486 wrote...
I'm having a hard time remembering why we were at odds earlier, 'cause I agree with most of what you're saying here.

Happens. We'll be at odds again in no time at all watch.

[Ryzaki]

wantedman dan wrote...

I literally read that post and shook my head in utter disbelief.

Reminds me of that time I got called a psychopath? Or was it sociopath? One of the two for not liking Jack (and posting why on a thread about what characters you didn't like and why). I just. Yes ra forbid I don't like a fictional character. Ra forbid.

[Geneaux486]

Ryzaki wrote...
Happens. We'll be at odds again in no time at all watch.

Meh, if it actually was just the result of a misunderstanding I'll sooner call bygones then get into another fight.  I generally try to avoid personal arguments as a rule (as you've seen I'm not always succesful), always regret when I get into them.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 29 juin 2012 - 07:22 .

[Funkdrspot]

wantedman dan wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

Maybe your problem is it's a game to you. The choices are made from the perspective of it being for a game.

Yes, you can fight to the death for your principles until you're just simply throwing yourself on the sword b/c you can't win the way you want.

Please tell me what your morality without a sense of context wins you when EVERYONE dies?! Nothing. Not a single damn thing. Who are you saving with your 'morality'? You're seriously condemning everyone to die because you cant realize that lives of billions are worth more than a single individual's morals. Seriously, you guys are trash.

Maybe because it is a game.

Duh. You put the disc in, it starts turning (you can hear it whirr), and you play it.

You do realize that there is life afterward, no? Not everything is about the present.

But if you're so 'moral' and so 'principled' why would it matter if it's a game or not?! Someone so self-righteous as yourself would make the decisions as if they were living them.

But you're not and you prove my point. The game is meant to be played as such. Your Shepard's choices are meant to mirror the personality and principles of the person playing.

I could NEVER be in Sheps position and just throw victory away because I didnt want blood on my hands. The mere thought of my inaction leading to the deaths of untold billions is sickening.

- Destroy. I might have to sacrifice the geth and EDI but 9 races out of 10 living is damn better than 0 out of 10

- Control. I might have to sacrifice myself but I believe that my morality and principles will never be corrupted by power. Plus, what is power to an immortal with no mortal concerns anyway?

- Synthesis. I can give people true connection to one another and finally give voice to the civilizations and people housed inside the reapers. Not my ideal, but it's better than billions dying. If you don't like how you turn out, kill youself and it'll work out b/c the reapers would have killed you anyways.

[LKx]

Well, yeah, the way it's played, with shepard just not doing anything,  it a way to tell: make a f**king choise!
While i can accept that a conventional battle would lead eventually to a defeat, they should have acknowledged that as a valid choise.

Even though i personally think that with the EC extended dialog a choise should be made, this is  what i think that should have happened in the reject option:

- Shepard reject the catalyst's options
- Shepard tell Hackett about the catalyst's nature (at least it would be knowledge for future cycles), and call in a nuke to the Citadel core
- The Citadel, and the Catalyst with it, gets destroyed, the reapers lose their controller, Shepard dies. Cofused they keep their prime directive, but they are less coordinated. Some reapers go rogue and just try to destroy everything on their path, some other acquire the self-knowledge of their races and either allow the alliance to destroy them or flee away.
- Reapers suffer heavy casualties, due the confusion, but, eventually, they manage to win this cicle (but with some survivors around), and most of them follow their prime directive to go back to sleep for another 50 thousands years.
- Next cycle, are aware of the threat due the Liara's probes (and maybe some other survivors' data around), and manage to destroy conventionally the new reaper's less coordinated assault

And it could have been the more epic of all choises, even with a defeat.

Modifié par LKx, 29 juin 2012 - 07:23 .

[wantedman dan]

Ryzaki wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

I literally read that post and shook my head in utter disbelief.

Reminds me of that time I got called a psychopath? Or was it sociopath? One of the two for not liking Jack (and posting why on a thread about what characters you didn't like and why). I just. Yes ra forbid I don't like a fictional character. Ra forbid.

lol

Those two terms are too loosely interchangeable from their original intent.

[Funkdrspot]

Bomma72 wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...



Maybe your problem is it's a game to you. The choices are made from the perspective of it being for a game.

Yes, you can fight to the death for your principles until you're just simply throwing yourself on the sword b/c you can't win the way you want.

Please tell me what your morality without a sense of context wins you when EVERYONE dies?! Nothing. Not a single damn thing. Who are you saving with your 'morality'? You're seriously condemning everyone to die because you cant realize that lives of billions are worth more than a single individual's morals. Seriously, you guys are trash.

Again it is not about my morals it is about the universes freedom, living as slaves is not really living.  If I follow your logic to conclusion if the Germans had said, just give us all your Jews and we will end all hostilities you would have excepted that because it saves the most lives.  I don't think you understand what you are really arguing for.

Your point would be totally valid, if it were at all related to the issue at hand.

How do you 'live as slaves' in any of the endings? You don't. So your point is moot.

[Bomma72]

OK whatever dude I am going to bed.

[wantedman dan]

Funkdrspot wrote...

But if you're so 'moral' and so 'principled' why would it matter if it's a game or not?! Someone so self-righteous as yourself would make the decisions as if they were living them. 

But you're not and you prove my point. The game is meant to be played as such. Your Shepard's choices are meant to mirror the personality and principles of the person playing.

I could NEVER be in Sheps position and just throw victory away because I didnt want blood on my hands. The mere thought of my inaction leading to the deaths of untold billions is sickening.

- Destroy. I might have to sacrifice the geth and EDI but 9 races out of 10 living is damn better than 0 out of 10

- Control. I might have to sacrifice myself but I believe that my morality and principles will never be corrupted by power. Plus, what is power to an immortal with no mortal concerns anyway?

- Synthesis. I can give people true connection to one another and finally give voice to the civilizations and people housed inside the reapers. Not my ideal, but it's better than billions dying. If you don't like how you turn out, kill youself and it'll work out b/c the reapers would have killed you anyways.

Just... no. The very fact that you assume my motivations in choosing the ending I did tells me all I need to know. You never asked, nor cared to--you simply assumed I didn't want blood on my hands, so I chose the one with everyone dying.

Makes a hell of a lot of sense, sweet pea.

Just kindly move along. Someone, much akin to yourself, so staunchly ingrained in willful ignorance and utter incompetence isn't worth the effort to yell at--especially at 2:30 in the morning.

[Funkdrspot]

Bomma72 wrote...

OK whatever dude I am going to bed.

Because you have no point and you know it.

Dur Hur, freedom over slavery.....except there is no slavery option. There's Freedom for everyone if you sacrifice some of your front line or death for everyone.

Some of you guys just cant stand aside yourself. You can't see the bigger picture, like a General.

[v TricKy v]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

You can say that, selfishly, because you don't represent anything but yourself. Have a family and real friends and then say that you would watch your family die before your eyes just to stay principled, then i'll believe you.

You're throwing an awful lot of blind trust that those buttons do exactly what the thing responsible for the reapers says they'll do. Reminds me of some well known psychological studies involving button pushing.

Rejecting the options presented and trying to make a new one isn't the slightest bit selfish. Doesn't mean it will be any more successful though.

Exactly this
The problem is everyone who talks about how silly refuse is, is actually acting on outside knowledge.
You, as player, know that shooting the tube will destroy the reapers but Shepard doesnt. For all he know shooting the tube would destroy everything EXCEPT the Reapers. Or the Control and Synthesis choices could just be cool looking ways to suicide.
Refusal is actually the most viable option if you see it from that point of view. Every other choices is only viable if you trust the star child and you use your player knowledge. I mean Shepard didnt trust Saren, he didnt trust the Illusive Man, so why he should trust the star child? The Child did NOTHING to earn your trust, he is actually responsible for all the killing. If he halted the Reapers while you talk to him, than you could justify it somehow but the way it is currently in-game, no way.

Modifié par v TricKy v, 29 juin 2012 - 07:30 .

[Ryzaki]

wantedman dan wrote...

lol

Those two terms are too loosely interchangeable from their original intent.

Seriously I had the biggest WTF look on my face as I read that.

Yeah at this point it just means "really angry/aggressive person who kills." boggles.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

people wanted the option, and bioware had gone out of there way to explain how the three existing choices sucked so they said f it let them pick refuse and it'll just make them die

[wantedman dan]

Funkdrspot wrote...

Bomma72 wrote...

OK whatever dude I am going to bed.

Because you have no point and you know it.

Dur Hur, freedom over slavery.....except there is no slavery option. There's Freedom for everyone if you sacrifice some of your front line or death for everyone.

Some of you guys just cant stand aside yourself. You can't see the bigger picture, like a General.

Besides being forcefully subjected to being melted down into Reaper form and forcefully subjected to an eternity of subservience to a collective intelligence, right?

But that's not slavery because it isn't.

[wantedman dan]

Ryzaki wrote...

wantedman dan wrote...

lol

Those two terms are too loosely interchangeable from their original intent.

Seriously I had the biggest WTF look on my face as I read that.

Yeah at this point it just means "really angry/aggressive person who kills." boggles.

Now imagine me--sitting here, 2:30 in the morning, reading everything Funk is writing.

I am simply puzzled.

[v TricKy v]

sorry hit the quote button accidently

Modifié par v TricKy v, 29 juin 2012 - 07:31 .

[Funkdrspot]

wantedman dan wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

But if you're so 'moral' and so 'principled' why would it matter if it's a game or not?! Someone so self-righteous as yourself would make the decisions as if they were living them. 

But you're not and you prove my point. The game is meant to be played as such. Your Shepard's choices are meant to mirror the personality and principles of the person playing.

I could NEVER be in Sheps position and just throw victory away because I didnt want blood on my hands. The mere thought of my inaction leading to the deaths of untold billions is sickening.

- Destroy. I might have to sacrifice the geth and EDI but 9 races out of 10 living is damn better than 0 out of 10

- Control. I might have to sacrifice myself but I believe that my morality and principles will never be corrupted by power. Plus, what is power to an immortal with no mortal concerns anyway?

- Synthesis. I can give people true connection to one another and finally give voice to the civilizations and people housed inside the reapers. Not my ideal, but it's better than billions dying. If you don't like how you turn out, kill youself and it'll work out b/c the reapers would have killed you anyways.

Just... no. The very fact that you assume my motivations in choosing the ending I did tells me all I need to know. You never asked, nor cared to--you simply assumed I didn't want blood on my hands, so I chose the one with everyone dying.

Makes a hell of a lot of sense, sweet pea.

Just kindly move along. Someone, much akin to yourself, so staunchly ingrained in willful ignorance and utter incompetence isn't worth the effort to yell at--especially at 2:30 in the morning.

Breaking out the thesaurus doesn't improve the quality of your debate. You can pile all the flowery wording that you want on but your foundation is lacking.

You want me to move along so you can continue moping without a valid challenge to the poison you're trying to throw on the franchise b/c you didn't get what you wanted. You wanted a Disney ending like you've been crying for weeks. Now if you can't have her ( ME 3 ), no one can.

[wolf465]

All in all this cute little play made me trade in Mass Effect 2 and 3, and shut down my Old Republic account down that had 10 days still on it.

Congrats Bioware, you lost a loyal customer by not only refusing to fix the problem but also flipping me the **** off. **** you, **** casey hudson, **** your admins and **** mac walters.

Im out.

[Funkdrspot]

wantedman dan wrote...

Funkdrspot wrote...

Bomma72 wrote...

OK whatever dude I am going to bed.

Because you have no point and you know it.

Dur Hur, freedom over slavery.....except there is no slavery option. There's Freedom for everyone if you sacrifice some of your front line or death for everyone.

Some of you guys just cant stand aside yourself. You can't see the bigger picture, like a General.

Besides being forcefully subjected to being melted down into Reaper form and forcefully subjected to an eternity of subservience to a collective intelligence, right?

But that's not slavery because it isn't.

LOL the only option that forces that on people is the one you're arguing FOR! REFUSE!

[wantedman dan]

Funkdrspot wrote...

Breaking out the thesaurus doesn't improve the quality of your debate. You can pile all the flowery wording that you want on but your foundation is lacking.

You want me to move along so you can continue moping without a valid challenge to the poison you're trying to throw on the franchise b/c you didn't get what you wanted. You wanted a Disney ending like you've been crying for weeks. Now if you can't have her ( ME 3 ), no one can.

This is probably the worst argument I've seen in a while.

Whining, assuming, ad hominem. This is priceless.

[TheMerchantMan]

I immediately found the Refusal Ending satisfactory. The nature of his final lines in rejecting the catalyst solution, and of course the catalyst's sudden switch to evil harbinger voice was just perfect. Even though I lost I was enraptured with the ending. It was exactly how I wanted my game to end (if it was to end badly), I knew victory wouldn't be possible simply because I knew Bioware wasn't going to be so easy, but I liked the bittersweet element.

However, upon learning what has been mentioned on the thread that the Dev's tweeted something to the order of, "either way the Crucible gets fired", and that the reason I didn't get a victory was because the whole scene was an extended game over, makes me rather irate.

Here and I thought Bioware really did care about its fans, and our choices in their game. Then they go ahead and force canon on us for no purpose other than extending one giant middle-finger at us. That's pretty low.

I mean, its still a great addition but that move is just so low.

[Geneaux486]

v TricKy v wrote...
The problem is everyone who talks about how silly refuse is, is actually acting on outside knowledge.
You, as player, know that shooting the tube will destroy the reapers but Shepard doesnt. For all he know shooting the tube would destroy everything EXCEPT the Reapers. Or the Control and Synthesis choices could just be cool looking ways to suicide.
Refusal is actually the most viable option if you see it from that point of view. Every other choices is only viable if you trust the star child and you use your player knowledge. I mean Shepard didnt trust Saren, he didnt trust the Illusive Man, so why he should trust the star child? The Child did NOTHING to earn your trust, he is actually responsible for all the killing. If he halted the Reapers while you talk to him, than you could justify it somehow but the way it is currently in-game, no way.

Thing is, everyone knew the Crucible was a gamble from the start, but it was deemed a calculated risk.  I think that knowlege would play a part in Shepard's decision at the end, without the player meta-gaming.  Furthermore, if you go the Destroy route, nothing fundamental is changed by the Catalyst's speech.  You do what you were there to do, there's a tragic side-effect, but at least the Reapers will die.  All three choices require some leap of faith, but I have no problem believing that certain Shepards, depending on their mindset, would see it as worth the risk if the only alternative is a definite loss anyway, hence why I don't think Shepard breaks character by choosing something other than Refuse.

[wantedman dan]

Funkdrspot wrote...

LOL the only option that forces that on people is the one you're arguing FOR! REFUSE!

You do realize the point of this thread, no? Or have you not managed to stumble your way to the OP yet?