505 réponses à ce sujet

[Taboo]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

1. Twitter isn't canon.

The Geth do not die in Destroy then.

[rainasa]

Ryzaki wrote...

Wrong.

The Reapers don't fight convientially. In all cycles but Shepard's they use a critical hit backstab, isolate most of the forces, and then sweep up the confuses remains. This cycle is arguably the first time they've ever fought head on without their ace in the sleeve of using the Citadel to isolate allied forces. And this cycle was woefully unprepared and still caught off guard.

Another cycle with Liara's information and enough time to develop enough anti-Reaper weapons? 

Reapers would get curbstomped.

The reapers would have a major disadvantage not just becuse of their boost of technology, but also because of their knowledge of the reapers existence, unlike the current cycle they would know of the reapers existance way before they come knocking from deep space, tactics of how to deal with husks and indoctrination instead of just hersay. there are so many more factors to take account on the next cycles chances, just because they could do it doesn't mean we could.

[Ryzaki]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
1. Twitter isn't canon.
2. They never said by choosing RGB, they said by using the Crucible. If you want to believe that the next cycle was VASTLY more informed of what happened due to the thoroughness of Liara's beacons, you can easily assume that they took the plans for the Crucible and had millennia to research and prepare a better way to use it. 

Personally, I choose to believe that they used the Citadel to open a hole to dark space and just shot the giant destroy beam through there, killing all the Reapers and then went out for coffee and a pastry. Maybe a bearclaw. Or a nice apple fritter.

1. Twitter shows intent.

2. The Crucible works off RBG. The previous cycles built those purposes into it. It also was built to work with the Catayst and he's the one who in all essence makes it work. So no unless they defeat the Reapers WITHOUT the crucible they end the war on the Reapers terms. No matter how high Shep's EMS is he has to rely on the Catalyst to allow the Crucible to fire.

Honestly my headcanon was that they curbstomped the Reapers in darkspace. Sent a bunch of soldiers there, owned the Reapers, didn't lose a man.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Taboo-XX wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

1. Twitter isn't canon.

The Geth do not die in Destroy then.

That's specifically said in the game. So.. I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.

[Ryzaki]

rainasa wrote...

The reapers would have a major disadvantage not just becuse of their boost of technology, but also because of their knowledge of the reapers existence, unlike the current cycle they would know of the reapers existance way before they come knocking from deep space, tactics of how to deal with husks and indoctrination instead of just hersay. there are so many more factors to take account on the next cycles chances, just because they could do it doesn't mean we could.

Good thing I never argued Shep's cycle could defeat the Reapers conventially then isn't it? I was fully expecting Shep to get his ass handed to him. His cycle was woefully unprepared and threw all their resources on the Crucible. They had no way of victory other than that due to their own mistakes.

The next cycle however? Shouldn't have to rely on such a crutch.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 juin 2012 - 12:13 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

Ryzaki wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
1. Twitter isn't canon.
2. They never said by choosing RGB, they said by using the Crucible. If you want to believe that the next cycle was VASTLY more informed of what happened due to the thoroughness of Liara's beacons, you can easily assume that they took the plans for the Crucible and had millennia to research and prepare a better way to use it. 

Personally, I choose to believe that they used the Citadel to open a hole to dark space and just shot the giant destroy beam through there, killing all the Reapers and then went out for coffee and a pastry. Maybe a bearclaw. Or a nice apple fritter.

1. Twitter shows intent.

2. The Crucible works off RBG. The previous cycles built those purposes into it. It also was built to work with the Catayst and he's the one who in all essence makes it work. So no unless they defeat the Reapers WITHOUT the crucible they end the war on the Reapers terms. No matter how high Shep's EMS is he has to rely on the Catalyst to allow the Crucible to fire.

Honestly my headcanon was that they curbstomped the Reapers in darkspace. Sent a bunch of soldiers there, owned the Reapers, didn't lose a man.

Twitter may show intent, but, for instance, Mike Gamble's twitter stated that he thinks Kasumi should end up with Keiji somehow. Is that canon, or is that simply what he believes in his game? That's the problem with Twitter, if you start using it... then what's canon and what's opinion?

"Ending the war on the Reapers terms" still ends the war; Maybe not the way YOU would like... but by that point, your Shepard is long dead and he made his moral stand. This new cycle believes that killing the Reapers is what matters. The fact of the matter is that you give the next cycle all the information they need in order to end the Reaper threat and they follow through in a way that, according to the new Stargazer, leads to the war never even being fought.

That's a victory right there.

[Funkdrspot]

You were slapped in the face because it's a stupid choice.

You placed your morals over the lives of tens of billions of beings, so your war went back to being conventional, which you had no hope of winning. Your morals prevented you from seeing the bigger picture, that at worst a Destroy choice would kill off 1 AI and the Geth that would be killed off anyways if the reapers won. And for all you 'refuse' guys rant and rave about morals, how moral is it to allow +9 races, +50 billion people die because you wanted to be moral orel? That in ITSELF is not moral.

There is a reason that not everyone can be a military officer, knowing that you would give orders to those who would not have a hope of living so that 100x that can live.

Modifié par Funkdrspot, 28 juin 2012 - 12:24 .

[Aaleel]

If the next cycle uses the crucible to win than to me it seems like an ending out of spite from Bioware. You don't like the endings go ahead and fail then.

It's almost saying you were stubborn and refused to use the crucible so everyone died, but the next cycle accepted the choices and stopped the reapers using one of the three.

You really didn't do anything by refusing to use the crucible but put off stopping the cycle for 50,000 years.

[Mcfly616]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

1. Twitter isn't canon.

The Geth do not die in Destroy then.

That's specifically said in the game. So.. I'm not quite sure what you mean by that.

yeah Taboo.....idk where you're going with this one lol sorry man

[Mcfly616]

I notice a lot of complaining....for the sake of complaining....

[RaenImrahl]

Alright, against my better judgement I loaded up the game, played around with some save files,. and got to the "refuse" ending. Like many, I was a little shocked at its abruptness.

But you know what-- I think it's kinda neat that you can make a true, heroically-moral choice now in the game. It's really easy to make a moral choice knowing there's likely, or at least a chance of a favorable outcome. It's much harder to make a moral choice just for the sake of doing what you think is right, with no hope of reward at all.

That's not to say, BTW, that the other choices are *immoral*. Others have argued that, but it is off-topic here. I would merely say the other choices are more pragmatic.

edit: "neat", not "need".

Modifié par RaenImrahl, 28 juin 2012 - 12:21 .

[darthoptimus003]

KingNothing125 wrote...

Rejection is an ending that's been (at least thematically) tossed around by this very forum long before ME3 even came out.

There was a not-insubstantial number of people who wanted to see a depressing ending where a Prothean Beacon-style time capsule was left so future cycles would have a better chance. That's exactly what Rejection is.

And honestly, what did you think was going to happen? The Reapers were on a 20000-game winning streak. They don't lose conventionally. Ever.

EDIT:

Velocithon wrote...

I want to know why the Catalyst says "So be it" in such a deep, menacing voice and then right after says "the cycle continues" in his usual voice.

Also, this

i can agree to some of this but not being beatin conventanally i dont because there is evedence of it being done thru out the game

[Ryzaki]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
Twitter may show intent, but, for instance, Mike Gamble's twitter stated that he thinks Kasumi should end up with Keiji somehow. Is that canon, or is that simply what he believes in his game? That's the problem with Twitter, if you start using it... then what's canon and what's opinion?

"Ending the war on the Reapers terms" still ends the war; Maybe not the way YOU would like... but by that point, your Shepard is long dead and he made his moral stand. This new cycle believes that killing the Reapers is what matters. The fact of the matter is that you give the next cycle all the information they need in order to end the Reaper threat and they follow through in a way that, according to the new Stargazer, leads to the war never even being fought.

That's a victory right there.

Considering there's a slide of Kasumi with an AI Keiji (at the least) uh...yeah don't see your point about canon. It is. It's in the game.

Intent is a key part of seeing if someone meant to insult/ridcule you or not. So yeah that's when I start seeing it as canon.

And in my opinion makes Refuse a giant "Ugh you idiot. Here another cycle makes the SMART decision and listens to the starbrat's garbage!" and no it's not a victory. The Reapers end the war on their terms. If I didn't have a problem with that I'd just pick Destroy and go meh whatever. I chose the Reject ending because I wanted the Reapers REJECTED by Shep and by another cycle that could not only reject them but kick their ass afterwards. I didn't get that. It's a slap in the face. It makes Shep's sacrifice pointless. At least if the other cycle won the war conventally it wouldn't feel like a slap in the face.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 juin 2012 - 12:23 .

[Taboo]

He does not mention the Geth specifically in the EC.

But I know they die, as I do not see them in the Epilogue.

[davishepard]

Think for a second, if there were a minimal hope to win the war - not in key locations - they wouldn't need the Crucible in the first place. If a choice that doesn't fire the Crucible could defeat the Reapers, the whole ME3 events would be pointless. Why bother if Kai Leng stole the Prothean VI? We can win this anyway.
Fortunately, the creators of ME3 used their brains and made the refusal option like it is.

[Funkdrspot]

Aaleel wrote...

If the next cycle uses the crucible to win than to me it seems like an ending out of spite from Bioware. You don't like the endings go ahead and fail then.

It's almost saying you were stubborn and refused to use the crucible so everyone died, but the next cycle accepted the choices and stopped the reapers using one of the three.

You really didn't do anything by refusing to use the crucible but put off stopping the cycle for 50,000 years.

And if anything, you put untold numbers of future cycles at risk too. What if they didn't get the beacons? what if they could never understand them? What if the reapers found them? What if they got taken out by wars, asteroids, etc?

The refuse option is a cool idea but in reality it's as selfish as it gets.

[razor150]

The Refuse ending is fine, you should get the game completed achievement from it. It was asked, and people like me said if we can't win then we lose. I am fine with it as is. Bioware saying the next cycle used the Crucible is a bit of a kick to the bags though. It is basically saying your moral stand was for nothing. Would have preferred they said nothing on it, because the refuse ending, imo, is the best ending minus the tweet.

Modifié par razor150, 28 juin 2012 - 12:35 .

[Funkdrspot]

Taboo-XX wrote...

He does not mention the Geth specifically in the EC.

But I know they die, as I do not see them in the Epilogue.

Actually you do. It talks about sacrifice and the dead and shows EDI, the geth and Mordin ( for me )

[Aaleel]

Also I don't know why people wonder why the Catalyst said 'so be it' angrily.

You were defeated, near death, reapers had won, cycle was going to continue.  The Catalyst saved you, brought you up to the Crucible, and gave you a chance to save yourself and your cycle and you said no.

I probably would have said ???? you then, go ahead and die  

[Father_Jerusalem]

Taboo-XX wrote...

He does not mention the Geth specifically in the EC.

But I know they die, as I do not see them in the Epilogue.

"Doing this will kill all synthetics".

And what are the Geth?

That's right. Synthetics. 

Does he say "This will kill all synthetics, and by that, I specifically mean the Geth"? No, but it's not any kind of a stretch to actually understand what "all synthetics" means. 

[razor150]

Aaleel wrote...

Also I don't know why people wonder why the Catalyst said 'so be it' angrily.

You were defeated, near death, reapers had won, cycle was going to continue.  The Catalyst saved you, brought you up to the Crucible, and gave you a chance to save yourself and your cycle and you said no.

I probably would have said ???? you then, go ahead and die  

Or the Catalyst could have just called the dogs off.

Edit: Afterall by his own words his solution doesn't work anymore. What is the difference between Refusing him and Control? Destroy changes nothing from our end, but everything from his. Just stopping the cycle is no different, and  better for him then two of the options he gives you.

Modifié par razor150, 28 juin 2012 - 12:33 .

[Funkdrspot]

razor150 wrote...

Aaleel wrote...

Also I don't know why people wonder why the Catalyst said 'so be it' angrily.

You were defeated, near death, reapers had won, cycle was going to continue.  The Catalyst saved you, brought you up to the Crucible, and gave you a chance to save yourself and your cycle and you said no.

I probably would have said ???? you then, go ahead and die  

Or the Catalyst could have just called the dogs off.

I actually liked the catalyst in this one. It showed that he was basically Skynet 2.0, He was once originally for peace but eventually his programming was corrupted. You can't reason with him on his core programming b/c he's beyond reason.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Ryzaki wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
Twitter may show intent, but, for instance, Mike Gamble's twitter stated that he thinks Kasumi should end up with Keiji somehow. Is that canon, or is that simply what he believes in his game? That's the problem with Twitter, if you start using it... then what's canon and what's opinion?

"Ending the war on the Reapers terms" still ends the war; Maybe not the way YOU would like... but by that point, your Shepard is long dead and he made his moral stand. This new cycle believes that killing the Reapers is what matters. The fact of the matter is that you give the next cycle all the information they need in order to end the Reaper threat and they follow through in a way that, according to the new Stargazer, leads to the war never even being fought.

That's a victory right there.

Considering there's a slide of Kasumi with an AI Keiji (at the least) uh...yeah don't see your point about canon. It is. It's in the game.

Intent is a key part of seeing if someone meant to insult/ridcule you or not. So yeah that's when I start seeing it as canon.

And in my opinion makes Refuse a giant "Ugh you idiot. Here another cycle makes the SMART decision and listens to the starbrat's garbage!" and no it's not a victory. The Reapers end the war on their terms. If I didn't have a problem with that I'd just pick Destroy and go meh whatever. I chose the Reject ending because I wanted the Reapers REJECTED by Shep and by another cycle that could not only reject them but kick their ass afterwards. I didn't get that. It's a slap in the face. It makes Shep's sacrifice pointless. At least if the other cycle won the war conventally it wouldn't feel like a slap in the face.

And there's a slide with Jack and a graveyard. It doesn't mean she's a zombie. In, for instance, Mike Gamble's opinion, Kasumi ends up with Keiji. In my opinion, that slide is Kasumi saying goodbye to Keiji before she goes runs off to hook up with Jacob and his wife. Just because Mike Gamble stated his opinion on twitter doesn't make it fact.

You chose the Refuse because you wanted Shepard to refuse the Reapers. Well.. he did. You got exactly what you wanted. He refused Starbrat, the Reapers continued their harvest, and the next cycle used the cache of knowledge that Liara left behind to stop the Reapers. The simple fact is that in the game, it's never said HOW the next cycle stopped them. If you want to believe it was conventionally, that's great. If you want to let what someone said on twitter overrule that, then that's your problem.

If it's not in the game, or in one of the officially licensed products, it's not canon. You can choose whether or not it happened for you. 

[Tigerman123]

Why would you reject the use of the crucible when that is what you've been ordered to do and what your allies have been working towards through out the game. You assume that Shepard has the right to perfect agency, that's monstrous, it's only by happenstance that he or she has the ability to make the choice in the first place; if Harbinger's beam had hit a different locale, if Anderson had survived, you wouldn't be making the decision.

[PadawanMage71]

I personally think there should've been one last ending, after refusing the HoloBrat, where, given the highest rating possible, you can still 'win' the war.

Funny how shooting that overrated AI get it's pissed off and you get the 'Reject' ending anyway. I guess some writer took offence to all those endless videos of the kid getting shot at by Shepard after being presented with the original Crayola endings.