505 réponses à ce sujet

[WhiteKnyght]

To the OP. People bashed Bioware for "breaking" their promises and lying about what would be in the game. One such promise that got particular attention was the lack of a bad ending. Bioware was reported to the BBB and the FTC for these.

So enjoy it, you got what you wanted; a bad, "Reapers Win" ending.

I hope the next Cycle is smart enough to use the Crucible.

PadawanMage71 wrote...

I personally think there should've been one last ending, after refusing the HoloBrat, where, given the highest rating possible, you can still 'win' the war.

Funny how shooting that overrated AI get it's pissed off and you get the 'Reject' ending anyway. I guess some writer took offence to all those endless videos of the kid getting shot at by Shepard after being presented with the original Crayola endings.

1. The reapers deliberately pick a point in time to invade where they CANT be defeated conventionally. But where their technology can be used for their purpose. Sovereign said that in the beginning that they ensure organics develop along the paths they desire.

2. People have known and voiced since the very first game that they would be fighting against impossible odds. They stated that they would have to "Find a way." The Crucible IS that way. To deny it is to deny victory for your cycle.

To quote/paraphrase Javik,. Stand in the ashes of a trillion dead souls and ask the ghosts if morals matter.

[Ryzaki]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
And there's a slide with Jack and a graveyard. It doesn't mean she's a zombie. In, for instance, Mike Gamble's opinion, Kasumi ends up with Keiji. In my opinion, that slide is Kasumi saying goodbye to Keiji before she goes runs off to hook up with Jacob and his wife. Just because Mike Gamble stated his opinion on twitter doesn't make it fact.

You chose the Refuse because you wanted Shepard to refuse the Reapers. Well.. he did. You got exactly what you wanted. He refused Starbrat, the Reapers continued their harvest, and the next cycle used the cache of knowledge that Liara left behind to stop the Reapers. The simple fact is that in the game, it's never said HOW the next cycle stopped them. If you want to believe it was conventionally, that's great. If you want to let what someone said on twitter overrule that, then that's your problem.

If it's not in the game, or in one of the officially licensed products, it's not canon. You can choose whether or not it happened for you. 

Your attempt to be clever fails. It does means someone close enough for her to go to the graveyard died. The fact that it only shows up if you send her students into an attacking role makes it even clearer (and if they were supports that slide is replaced by her standing around talking to them makes it blatant what causes the slide to shift). Keiji's nothing but memories. The fact that there's no greybox anywhere to be seen suggests he turned into some weird AI thing. Which...is really stupid. These slides equals in control/destroy seem to be of Kasumi sitting down using the greybox. As for Gamble's opinion being fact only thing he said was she was with Keiji. And she was. There's no opinion there. If he said he THOUGHT the other cycle used the Crucible that would be one thing. That's not what he said.

As for your "you choose your canon." that's completely besides the point of the ending being a slap in the face. I know I can make my own canon. I've been doing it since the original endings! That doesn't make this ending any less of a slap in the face anymore than it made the original endings less fail.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 juin 2012 - 02:22 .

[Father_Jerusalem]

Ryzaki wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
And there's a slide with Jack and a graveyard. It doesn't mean she's a zombie. In, for instance, Mike Gamble's opinion, Kasumi ends up with Keiji. In my opinion, that slide is Kasumi saying goodbye to Keiji before she goes runs off to hook up with Jacob and his wife. Just because Mike Gamble stated his opinion on twitter doesn't make it fact.

You chose the Refuse because you wanted Shepard to refuse the Reapers. Well.. he did. You got exactly what you wanted. He refused Starbrat, the Reapers continued their harvest, and the next cycle used the cache of knowledge that Liara left behind to stop the Reapers. The simple fact is that in the game, it's never said HOW the next cycle stopped them. If you want to believe it was conventionally, that's great. If you want to let what someone said on twitter overrule that, then that's your problem.

If it's not in the game, or in one of the officially licensed products, it's not canon. You can choose whether or not it happened for you. 

Your attempt to be clever fails. It does means someone close enough for her to go to the graveyard died. The fact that it only shows up if you send her students into an attacking role makes it even clearer (and if they were supports that slide is replaced by her standing around talking to them makes it blatant what causes the slide to shift). Keiji's nothing but memories. The fact that there's no greybox anywhere to be seen suggests he turned into some weird AI thing. Which...is really stupid. These slides equals in control/destroy seem to be of Kasumi sitting down using the greybox. As for Gamble's opinion being fact only thing he said was she was with Keiji. And she was. There's no opinion there. If he said he THOUGHT the other cycle used the Crucible that would be one thing. That's not what he said.

As for your "you choose your canon." that's completely besides the point of the ending being a slap in the face. I know I can make my own canon. I've been doing it since the original endings! That doesn't make this ending any less of a slap in the face anymore than it made the original endings less fail.

If you've been given exactly what you were asking for and yet still rant about how it's a slap in the face because of something one person tweeted and is not even in the game, then frankly, that's a you problem. 

I tried to show you, rationally, how you don't need to be a slave to twitter. I guess I failed in that. I choose to believe what makes sense to me with the context that we're given within the game. If all you're going to do is keep ranting "slap in the face! I'm insulted!" then I guess we're done here.

[Oldbones2]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote..
And as the game itself says, they do get curbstomped. In the next cycle. 

So, how is that a slap in the face, exactly? 

Because according to twitter the Reapers were only defeated because the next cycle chose RGB. Which is exactly what I picked Refuse to AVOID having occur.

If they defeated the Reapers conventially? I would love this ending.

1. Twitter isn't canon.
2. They never said by choosing RGB, they said by using the Crucible. If you want to believe that the next cycle was VASTLY more informed of what happened due to the thoroughness of Liara's beacons, you can easily assume that they took the plans for the Crucible and had millennia to research and prepare a better way to use it. 

Personally, I choose to believe that they used the Citadel to open a hole to dark space and just shot the giant destroy beam through there, killing all the Reapers and then went out for coffee and a pastry. Maybe a bearclaw. Or a nice apple fritter.

1.  I guess Emily Wong is still alive then.... wait you weren't one of those fans who said twitter should be cannon a few weeks ago were you?  That would be ... awkard.
2.  But wait, that sounds like a pretty conventional way to destroy them.... I thought they couldn't be beaten conventionally....So confused.  Is this what it feels like to be a Bio drone?

[zambot]

Choosing Refusal can be called "pulling a Ned Stark"

[KLGChaos]

Personally, I think that considering Starchild admitted his way wasn't working, if you had high enough EMS and managed to bring together the entire galaxy, including ending the war between the organics and synthetics, there should have been a way to convince him to abandon his plans.

Talking the boss down would definitely be an "unconventional" way to win the war.

Modifié par KLGChaos, 28 juin 2012 - 03:22 .

[Elite Midget]

Well, the backlash hurt their feelings. This is just their way of trying to get back.

[IndridColdx]

Because Bioware doesn't listen to their fans

[Xenite]

Anuvis13 wrote...

I've posted this before in many topics. It's a glorified Game Over screen. It's a middle finger from BW to those who don't like their crap ending. They didn't make a power point for it. And then they go and say the next cycle STILL used the Crucible. It can't be more obvious. Still its better than R/B/G.

This.....

Hell they even said no new ending, but they did put in a new ending and it was a screw you to the people who complained.

They could of put in a suitable ending and everyone would of been happy.

[Bomma72]

I didn't think it was a slap in the face at all, it was perfect and if you use the dialog you get to her Sheppard go out like a boss.

You won the unconventional way, it just took a full cycle to do it. Also the Stargazer specifically says that the didn't have to have a war so to me they perfected the crucible in the next cycle and used it before the reapers even had a chance to fight.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Oldbones2 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote..
And as the game itself says, they do get curbstomped. In the next cycle. 

So, how is that a slap in the face, exactly? 

Because according to twitter the Reapers were only defeated because the next cycle chose RGB. Which is exactly what I picked Refuse to AVOID having occur.

If they defeated the Reapers conventially? I would love this ending.

1. Twitter isn't canon.
2. They never said by choosing RGB, they said by using the Crucible. If you want to believe that the next cycle was VASTLY more informed of what happened due to the thoroughness of Liara's beacons, you can easily assume that they took the plans for the Crucible and had millennia to research and prepare a better way to use it. 

Personally, I choose to believe that they used the Citadel to open a hole to dark space and just shot the giant destroy beam through there, killing all the Reapers and then went out for coffee and a pastry. Maybe a bearclaw. Or a nice apple fritter.

1.  I guess Emily Wong is still alive then.... wait you weren't one of those fans who said twitter should be cannon a few weeks ago were you?  That would be ... awkard.
2.  But wait, that sounds like a pretty conventional way to destroy them.... I thought they couldn't be beaten conventionally....So confused.  Is this what it feels like to be a Bio drone?

First off, there is clearly a difference between a story directly written by BioWare and posted on Twitter as a prologue to Mass Effect 3 and one person's opinion on Twitter. If you don't understand that, I can't help you. Secondly, I accept Emily Wong being dead in my canon, but you don't have to. I never said Twitter was absolute canon. I've said repeatedly that the way it was done was exceptionally moving and I was impacted by her death.

Thirdly, with Liara's beacons and all the technical specs of the Catalyst and the Crucible, with the foreknowledge, the warnings about the Citadel, with EVERYTHING being preserved for the future cycle to find and understand and 50,000 years to prepare... sure the Reapers could be defeated conventionally. We had five yars. Less than a year with the Crucible and Thanix cannons. Tell me, how is this confusing?

Is this what it feels like to be... no. I'm stopping here. I already have an anti-ending mod on my ass for being "mean" to you folks, no need to step in it further.

Modifié par Father_Jerusalem, 28 juin 2012 - 03:31 .

[DiebytheSword]

Not for anything, but I don't feel that this ending is a slap to the face, middle finger or anything of the kind. People were actually asking for this kind of ending, and there are those out there who prefer it to the other three major endings.

That said, I DID feel as if shooting the Catalyst was an unsubtle jab at the player base, but the ending you get for it, itself, is not.

At some point, the outrage is just outrage for outrage's sake. I'm not saying that you are all there yet, but dammit your trying. Refuse is a legitimate choice that also results in the destruction of the Reapers, and the end of the Cycles.

[Ryzaki]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
If you've been given exactly what you were asking for and yet still rant about how it's a slap in the face because of something one person tweeted and is not even in the game, then frankly, that's a you problem. 

I tried to show you, rationally, how you don't need to be a slave to twitter. I guess I failed in that. I choose to believe what makes sense to me with the context that we're given within the game. If all you're going to do is keep ranting "slap in the face! I'm insulted!" then I guess we're done here.

I've not been given what I asked for. But you keep pretending I was. And yes it is my problem. Good thing I didn't ask you to solve it for me no?

And no I'm well aware of that fact. That doesn't change BW's intention with the ending. So if you want to keep harping for me to "omg ignore them!" yeah you're done here.

@Juromaru: The ONLY cycle that got anything near a warning was Shepard's cycle. And Shep's cycle was woefully unprepared. So yes I actually believe given enough forewarning and time to build an army that yes the Reapers will be able to be defeated Reaper by Reaper. They can't replinish their numbers fast enough. As for understanding remember that the Protheans's beacons worked off a way of communication that our cycle wasn't even capable of and that the Protheans (and every cycle before them ) managed to successfully transfer the blueprints of the Crucible cycle to cycle. Clearly we can communicate. The Protheans just did so poorly with the beacons. Probably due to good old Prothean arrogance. Liara attempts to avoid that.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 juin 2012 - 03:41 .

[Oldbones2]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Oldbones2 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote..
And as the game itself says, they do get curbstomped. In the next cycle. 

So, how is that a slap in the face, exactly? 

Because according to twitter the Reapers were only defeated because the next cycle chose RGB. Which is exactly what I picked Refuse to AVOID having occur.

If they defeated the Reapers conventially? I would love this ending.

1. Twitter isn't canon.
2. They never said by choosing RGB, they said by using the Crucible. If you want to believe that the next cycle was VASTLY more informed of what happened due to the thoroughness of Liara's beacons, you can easily assume that they took the plans for the Crucible and had millennia to research and prepare a better way to use it. 

Personally, I choose to believe that they used the Citadel to open a hole to dark space and just shot the giant destroy beam through there, killing all the Reapers and then went out for coffee and a pastry. Maybe a bearclaw. Or a nice apple fritter.

1.  I guess Emily Wong is still alive then.... wait you weren't one of those fans who said twitter should be cannon a few weeks ago were you?  That would be ... awkard.
2.  But wait, that sounds like a pretty conventional way to destroy them.... I thought they couldn't be beaten conventionally....So confused.  Is this what it feels like to be a Bio drone?

First off, there is clearly a difference between a story directly written by BioWare and posted on Twitter as a prologue to Mass Effect 3 and one person's opinion on Twitter. If you don't understand that, I can't help you. Secondly, I accept Emily Wong being dead in my canon, but you don't have to. I never said Twitter was absolute canon. I've said repeatedly that the way it was done was exceptionally moving and I was impacted by her death.

Thirdly, with Liara's beacons and all the technical specs of the Catalyst and the Crucible, with the foreknowledge, the warnings about the Citadel, with EVERYTHING being preserved for the future cycle to find and understand and 50,000 years to prepare... sure the Reapers could be defeated conventionally. We had five yars. Less than a year with the Crucible and Thanix cannons. Tell me, how is this confusing?

Is this what it feels like to be... no. I'm stopping here. I already have an anti-ending mod on my ass for being "mean" to you folks, no need to step in it further.

Stop, go, do what ever you want.

But please, stop making arbitrary divides.  Either Twitter is cannon or it isn't. 

As for conventional victory being impossible.  It really isn't.  If it were, Sovereign would have won back in ME1.  By being unbeatable.

He was defeated.  At a terrible cost.  But still.

Start blowing relays.  Stock every able bodied hand with Thanix weapons and Cains.  Hell the Krogan have more WMDs than they know what to do with.  The Turians have fleet after fleet of dreadnoughts.  Use the Salarians.  Let them give genetic modifications to secies, so that if they are harvested they weaken and infect the Reapers with a deadly virus.  The Krogan and Rachni breed like rabbits on viagra, that snort crack.  Don't tell me its impossible.  Tell me its unlikely.  Tell me the odds are 1 in infinty.  Tell me it would take another 50 thousand years.  Tell me the best we could hope for was a pyrric victory, and a galaxy of ash inherited by our descendants who curse our very names for causing their misery.


But don't tell me its impossible.

[Father_Jerusalem]

Oldbones2 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Oldbones2 wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote..
And as the game itself says, they do get curbstomped. In the next cycle. 

So, how is that a slap in the face, exactly? 

Because according to twitter the Reapers were only defeated because the next cycle chose RGB. Which is exactly what I picked Refuse to AVOID having occur.

If they defeated the Reapers conventially? I would love this ending.

1. Twitter isn't canon.
2. They never said by choosing RGB, they said by using the Crucible. If you want to believe that the next cycle was VASTLY more informed of what happened due to the thoroughness of Liara's beacons, you can easily assume that they took the plans for the Crucible and had millennia to research and prepare a better way to use it. 

Personally, I choose to believe that they used the Citadel to open a hole to dark space and just shot the giant destroy beam through there, killing all the Reapers and then went out for coffee and a pastry. Maybe a bearclaw. Or a nice apple fritter.

1.  I guess Emily Wong is still alive then.... wait you weren't one of those fans who said twitter should be cannon a few weeks ago were you?  That would be ... awkard.
2.  But wait, that sounds like a pretty conventional way to destroy them.... I thought they couldn't be beaten conventionally....So confused.  Is this what it feels like to be a Bio drone?

First off, there is clearly a difference between a story directly written by BioWare and posted on Twitter as a prologue to Mass Effect 3 and one person's opinion on Twitter. If you don't understand that, I can't help you. Secondly, I accept Emily Wong being dead in my canon, but you don't have to. I never said Twitter was absolute canon. I've said repeatedly that the way it was done was exceptionally moving and I was impacted by her death.

Thirdly, with Liara's beacons and all the technical specs of the Catalyst and the Crucible, with the foreknowledge, the warnings about the Citadel, with EVERYTHING being preserved for the future cycle to find and understand and 50,000 years to prepare... sure the Reapers could be defeated conventionally. We had five yars. Less than a year with the Crucible and Thanix cannons. Tell me, how is this confusing?

Is this what it feels like to be... no. I'm stopping here. I already have an anti-ending mod on my ass for being "mean" to you folks, no need to step in it further.

Stop, go, do what ever you want.

But please, stop making arbitrary divides.  Either Twitter is cannon or it isn't. 

As for conventional victory being impossible.  It really isn't.  If it were, Sovereign would have won back in ME1.  By being unbeatable.

He was defeated.  At a terrible cost.  But still.

Start blowing relays.  Stock every able bodied hand with Thanix weapons and Cains.  Hell the Krogan have more WMDs than they know what to do with.  The Turians have fleet after fleet of dreadnoughts.  Use the Salarians.  Let them give genetic modifications to secies, so that if they are harvested they weaken and infect the Reapers with a deadly virus.  The Krogan and Rachni breed like rabbits on viagra, that snort crack.  Don't tell me its impossible.  Tell me its unlikely.  Tell me the odds are 1 in infinty.  Tell me it would take another 50 thousand years.  Tell me the best we could hope for was a pyrric victory, and a galaxy of ash inherited by our descendants who curse our very names for causing their misery.


But don't tell me its impossible.

A story written and authorized by BioWare to be part of the launch event for Mass Effect 3 is absolutely canon-able. REGARDLESS of where it's posted. Mike Gamble posting one thing on Twitter is absolutely not canon-able. This is not an "arbitrary divide" this is clear to anyone with critical thinking skills.

And yes. Back in ME1, you managed to kill a Reaper. Will it was stationary. And attached to the Citadel. And not really paying attention to the fleet. And it took how many ships? And how many ships were destroyed by the Geth during this assault? The Geth who are NOWHERE near Reaper capabilities? So. Well done you.

The entire galactic fleet is massed and attacking the Reapers at Earth, and just barely holding on. Let me say that again: the ENTIRE GALACTIC FLEET. All those however many war assets you have are THERE. Attacking ONE planet. The Reapers, if you'll remember, are in control of every other system. So even if you manage to defeat the Reaper armada above Earth before they can call in reinforcements from, oh I don't know, anywhere else in the galaxy, you'll STILL have to deal with the Reapers being in control of the rest of the galaxy. Harvesting millions, if not billions, of beings a day. Replacing their numbers while you're straggling along. 

This is me. Telling you it's impossible. This is many MANY other posters. Telling you it's impossible. This is characters in the game. Telling you it's impossible. This is BioWare. Telling you it's impossible.

It. Is. Impossible.

[MuKen]

The Grey Nayr wrote...

To the OP. People bashed Bioware for "breaking" their promises and lying about what would be in the game. One such promise that got particular attention was the lack of a bad ending. Bioware was reported to the BBB and the FTC for these.

So enjoy it, you got what you wanted; a bad, "Reapers Win" ending.

As I said in my last post, I have no problem with that.  I LIKE that this ending had the plotline that it did.  I don't like that they devoted less resources to it.  I don't like not getting the achievement, not because I care about the achievement, but because it tells me they wanted you to know you played the game wrong.

I dont like that everything about this ending is designed to tell me I played the game wrong.  That is VERRRRY different from saying I don't like this being the wrong choice.  I'd be ok with it if it turned out disastrously, signifying that this was a very bad thing for Shepard to do.  But independent of what actually happened, them not putting in the scenes or the achievement to SHOW YOU that choice in the same detail as the others is punishing the PLAYER, not punishing Shepard.

This is a role-playing game, moreso than any other "rpg" made, and was advertised as such.  I should be able to play a "wrong choice" Shepard if I want to, and see the full cinematics of his decisions.  Some of you played a Shepard that shot one of his buddies in the back, would it be a good thing if they cut out all the cinematics and put in a text blurb telling you the outcome of that instead because they feel like backstabbing your friends shouldn't be done?

Modifié par MuKen, 28 juin 2012 - 03:54 .

[Cant Planet]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...
This is me. Telling you it's impossible. This is many MANY other posters. Telling you it's impossible. This is characters in the game. Telling you it's impossible. This is BioWare. Telling you it's impossible.

It. Is. Impossible.

What are you trying to say?

[Seracen]

"Youre beleif is not required" was totally trolling, as was the Refusal ending. I actually considered "so be it" as being spoken from the part of "Starbrat" that was in synch with Harbinger.

As for IT, was I the only one that noticed the glimmers of blue in Shep's eyes when he falls from the teleporter in that hallway?

[Bill Casey]

Velocithon wrote...

I want to know why the Catalyst says "So be it" in such a deep, menacing voice and then right after says "the cycle continues" in his usual voice.

I have no idea what that was.

His true nature coming out...

[Ryzaki]

Juromaro wrote...
Aye that is true, but the prothean beacons were only designed with prothean physiology in mind. Does the next cycle magically know how to speak Asari, Prothean, Human, Turian, Krogen, Salarian and all other languages of this cycle?

Sure they can't replenish their numbers fast enough, but they don't need to, and advanced species doesn't have to have numbers.....After all you can have the largest army in the world, but you put them all in one field and your enemy drops a nuke your army is done. That is in essence what the Reapers are.


I'm about 3% from finishing the download and I've no saves right before the base so I'll have to get back to you in a week or so.....maybe my opinion will changed after fully experiencing all the endings.

Same way people translate ancient scripts and books today despite not knowing most of the language (since alot of it is lost or horribly translated and warped beyond the original). It's not something that's improbable. Difficult and annoying along with a bit of guesswork? Yup. Impossible no.  And remember Crucible blueprints. They understand it somehow. It'd be pretty much the same way Shep's cycle understood the Prothean's writings and things they left behind. These are things we do in our own world. Given that Liara will be aware of the vast differences in languages I wouldn't be surprised if it mostly comprised of pictures.

If they're being killed off yes they do. The Reapers like their wars won before they start. The Reapers have never had to go toe to toe with an force that was on equal or better technological level as them. They've never had to go against a foe that knew their weaknesses before they even fought them. Though you're right. The Reapers are all in one field and can be nuked that's field called darkspace. Especially since they have a convient rest mode that you can blindside them once they're in it. Meanwhile the galaxy easily has homefield advantage.

Okay.

Modifié par Ryzaki, 28 juin 2012 - 04:03 .

[Tazzmission]

its not a slap in the face because its nice to see the villain win for a change

i mean shoot we have 3 endings wich 1 the reapers die and the remaining 2 have the reapers be your slaves

can you honestly say you wouldnt want the bad guy to win at least just once?

[wantedman dan]

OP, we dared question artistic integrity. Bleh.

Tazzmission wrote...

its not a slap in the face because its nice to see the villain win for a change

i mean shoot we have 3 endings wich 1 the reapers die and the remaining 2 have the reapers be your slaves

can you honestly say you wouldnt want the bad guy to win at least just once?

That's probably the worst justification for the current adaptation of "refusal" I could possibly imagine.

[Zine2]

I prefer to say that they slapped the fans in the face, who then smiled and said "It's still the best ending."