505 réponses à ce sujet

[Father_Jerusalem]

wantedman dan wrote...

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

You're not providing any facts. You're saying that going from "We will keep on fighting woo!" to being shown your armies being destroyed, while still bleeding to death and the Starbrat turning away and shutting off the Catalyst and being sad about it is, somehow, not "narratively cohesive".

Shepard's still stuck on the Citadel. Bleeding to death. With no one else around, and no way that he knows to get off the Citadel. That speech was his/her last act of defiance before acknowledging his/her fate. It's perfectly cohesive.

Oh, so we're going from "explanation and evidence" to "U DIDNT HAVE FACTS LAWL"

Let's just go back to Realville for a second and realize that we're not discussing "facts" here. We're discussing interpretations. I provided the facts--y'know, the video that you obviously didn't care to watch, or purposefully skimmed over in order to justify some ill-begotten sense of being superior. I don't care which, personally, as both are deplorable.

Shepard's stuck on the Citadel with a working comm link. I'm sorry, but if he doesn't know how to use it at this point, I'd be genuinely surprised that he managed to do such extraordinary events to get there in the first place.

And when you have nothing else, you resort to personal attacks. This is where I'll stop responding to you, thanks.

You, sirrah, can feel free to sit there in your wrongness and be wrong. 

[Divitiacus]

rainasa wrote...

AxholeRose wrote...


C. Reaper threat has to end
someway, and showing the player that some other alien race saved the
galaxy just screams "YOU FAIL". Which I'm sure is not what Bioware
intended for the Reject ending.

No, it's exactly what they wanted to show just as this guy put it,

KingNothing125 wrote...

And honestly, what did you think was going to happen? The Reapers were on a 20000-game winning streak. They don't lose conventionally. Ever.

We are told time and time again that we just cant beat the reapers conventionally. even if we manage to destroy a few of their lower class ships, they simply out gun them far too much for them to have any chance of winning a war of attrition. And thats not even taking into account indoctrination, which will only get progressively worse every day that passes.

Yeah yeah, we're TOLD. But what we're SHOWN time and time again is us kicking ass against the odds, when we're TOLD it's impossibe. Show vs tell. It's basic storytelling, show don't tell. We internalize and believe what we see a lot more than what we're simply told, especially in this story that was so strong up to the end.

[Trav-O]

I didn't really mind this ending. None of them were great, but at least fail was, like control, a probable outcome. So what if it didn't show what happened to everyone, there's death and pain for everybody. The time capsule is a little sweetner the 'fail ending' probably didn't deserve, but its a bonus. The asari stargazer was less creepy sounding than buzz.

[wantedman dan]

Father_Jerusalem wrote...

And when you have nothing else, you resort to personal attacks. This is where I'll stop responding to you, thanks.

You, sirrah, can feel free to sit there in your wrongness and be wrong. 

Nice dealing with you.

Move along.

[Bowie Hawkins]

zambot wrote...

Choosing Refusal can be called "pulling a Ned Stark"

That gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "Winter is co..."

[thefallen2far]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Did you play Mass Effect?  Normandy was only able to do that because Sovereign went braindead and its systems went offline when you killed Saren's reanimated mindmeld corpse.  Normandy couldnt do **** to soverign with its defenses up.

You know what kinectic barriers are, right?

I mean, you played the game too, didnt you?

Normandy was able to: what?  It was able to; what?  Shoot through the Reaper's hull and destroy the Reaper. So the Reapers themselves are very flawed.  And a giant worm has the strength to crush them, so they're actually very weak all things considered.  That's without advances in technologies like Thanix cannon upgrades which most of the larger battle cruisers would be equipped with. 

Despite all of that, that's all just plot devices.  The bottom line is.... it's a fictional world.   It garnered an audience from the previous games who could be successful despite being told you'd fail.  You had a suicide mission where everyone told you not everyone was coming back, but everyone came back.  You defied odds, and succeeded.  On your own terms based on how well you did in the game.  That's the audience it gathered by having that ending in the last game.  This game has a different ending that appeals to the nihilistic "what's the point.  We're going to fail anyway, might as well go with crazy program" audience.  It's okay that you're okay with quitters as protagonists, but I think that people that appreciated the character prior to this ending have the right to feel insulted with the "eff you.  It's Star Jar or nothing" ending.

Modifié par thefallen2far, 28 juin 2012 - 04:48 .

[Geneaux486]

Bowie Hawkins wrote...

zambot wrote...

Choosing Refusal can be called "pulling a Ned Stark"

That gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "Winter is co..."

Geez there's even a psychopathic kid in both.  Now they're forever associated in my mind XD

[dirty console peasant]

Corvus74 wrote...

KingNothing125 wrote...

And honestly, what did you think was going to happen? The Reapers were on a 20000-game winning streak. They don't lose conventionally. Ever.

Except the Reapers have never fought a conventional war.  Ever.  This is the first time.  Always before it has been teh backstab followed up by mopping up the tiny reduced pockets of resistance.

This

[Divitiacus]

thefallen2far wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

Did you play Mass Effect?  Normandy was only able to do that because Sovereign went braindead and its systems went offline when you killed Saren's reanimated mindmeld corpse.  Normandy couldnt do **** to soverign with its defenses up.

You know what kinectic barriers are, right?

I mean, you played the game too, didnt you?

Normandy was able to: what?  It was able to; what?  Shoot through the Reaper's hull and destroy the Reaper. So the Reapers themselves are very flawed.  And a giant worm has the strength to crush them, so they're actually very weak all things considered.  That's without advances in technologies like Thanix cannon upgrades which most of the larger battle cruisers would be equipped with. 

Despite all of that, that's all just plot devices.  The bottom line is.... it's a fictional world.   It garnered an audience from the previous games who could be successful despite being told you'd fail.  You had a suicide mission where everyone told you not everyone was coming back, but everyone came back.  You defied odds, and succeeded.  On your own terms based on how well you did in the game.  That's the audience it gathered by having that ending in the last game.  This game has a different ending that appeals to the nihilistic "what's the point.  We're going to fail anyway, might as well go with crazy program".  It's okay that you're okay with quitters as protagonists, but I think that people that appreciated the character prior to this ending have the write to feel insulted with the "eff you.  It's Star Jar or nothing" ending.

Like I said, I agree, it's poor story telling to pull the rug out now, as I've always said the space child itself is a pointless cop out. In the land of showing instead of telling, we've been shown the Reapers as beatable, we've been told they are not. Which do we buy more instinctively as sophisticated readers of a text, text in this case as the game? Clearly what we are shown.

[Divitiacus]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Bowie Hawkins wrote...

zambot wrote...

Choosing Refusal can be called "pulling a Ned Stark"

That gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "Winter is co..."

Geez there's even a psychopathic kid in both.  Now they're forever associated in my mind XD

Ned Stark is still my favorite character five books into SoIaF, so now I know this is the only choice for my Shepard.

[iAFKinMassEffect3]

Velocithon wrote...

I want to know why the Catalyst says "So be it" in such a deep, menacing voice and then right after says "the cycle continues" in his usual voice.

I have no idea what that was.

That was Harbinger's voice.

[Geneaux486]

Divitiacus wrote...
Ned Stark is still my favorite character five books into SoIaF, so now I know this is the only choice for my Shepard.

I wonder how faithfully one could recreate Sean Bean's face in the character creation...

[Divitiacus]

Geneaux486 wrote...

Divitiacus wrote...
Ned Stark is still my favorite character five books into SoIaF, so now I know this is the only choice for my Shepard.

I wonder how faithfully one could recreate Sean Bean's face in the character creation...

Sadly the hair would never be right.

[Geneaux486]

Divitiacus wrote...
Sadly the hair would never be right.

True, but hair is the most negotiable part of one's head.

[Divitiacus]

Hair is also the most effective way to cover up a look not being quite right.

[Geneaux486]

Divitiacus wrote...

Hair is also the most effective way to cover up a look not being quite right.

Also true.  Still, I keep thinking about the John Locke Shepard I saw once.  That thing was the spitting image of Terry O'Quinn.

Modifié par Geneaux486, 28 juin 2012 - 04:58 .

[terdferguson123]

When the kid's voice gets all deep like. He sounds an awful lot like Harbinger doesn't he? I wonder if Bioware was alluding to something there. Or maybe I am just reading too much into things. But his voice changed for a reason.

[Jonathan Shepard]

The fact BioWare is so petty about it just shows that we-- the fans-- won in the end. We got the ending we asked for. We were able to defy the Catalyst. We did all we could to stop the Reapers, but it wasn't enough. I don't believe in some "tweet-cannon" by Gamble. In fact, I've completely dismissed Gamble as a reliable source of information.

Liara said the Crucible didn't work. Why would the next cycle build it after hearing that? Even if they did, they may have made modifications that allow for the destruction of only the Reapers. Perhaps they used it to open the Relays to darkspace and performed a pre-emptive strike on the Reapers.

So even if they forcefully insist that Crucible may have been used... but that doesn't mean RGB was used. I still think it's BS, trying to sabotage the ending, but I'll take anything over Synthesis. Refusal actually gives the most "realistic" ending to the ME series, and I think other than destroy, fits Shep's character and the overall themes of the series the best.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

wantedman dan wrote...

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...

No he has a point you're not really fully explaining your point.  You say shepard standing there out of options is inconsistent?  What could they have possibly done other than my aforementioned suicide shot suggestion.

What?

No, you're misinterpreting what I said. I said the fact that Shepard standing there looking broken after the act of defiance makes no narrative sense.

Yes it does because shepard IS broken when they realise theres nothing left they can do.


how is this...hard to understand?  Also sweet "dodge" there.

It makes narrative sense becuase its the only possible followup to that action other than shepard killing themselves.

you're wrong.  sorry. 

[Geneaux486]

terdferguson123 wrote...

When the kid's voice gets all deep like. He sounds an awful lot like Harbinger doesn't he? I wonder if Bioware was alluding to something there. Or maybe I am just reading too much into things. But his voice changed for a reason.

I don't hear Harbinger at all, really I just hear generic Reaper deep voice.

[Divitiacus]

I hear Vigo from Ghostbusters 2.

[Doctor_Jackstraw]

Ryzaki wrote...

Oh I don't know. Try to tell Hackett and the rest of the fleet that the Crucible wasn't going to work and that this was their last stand. A final speech to inspire them to give the Reapers hell before they died. Better to die free than become Reaper tools and abominations to kill the next cycle.

Guess that's too logical and inspiring. Can't have that! Not for the FU option! Instead Shep just stands there not even letting the rest of the fleet know that their one hope's gone.

And yes he clearly was still able to communicate. That's how Hackett tells you the Crucible's not firing.

but shepard didnt have a radio.

there was a radio at the console that opened the arms though.


too bad shepard went up that elevator.  now she cant give a pointless speech to dieing people  (Thats Hackett's job)

[D24O]

Destroy is only somewhat insulting if the next cycle HAS to use the Crucible, because of the meta-textual implications of that. If not, if they can win on their own, it's actually a really good ending.

[Geneaux486]

Doctor_Jackstraw wrote...
Yes it does because shepard IS broken when they realise theres nothing left they can do.


how is this...hard to understand?  Also sweet "dodge" there.

It makes narrative sense becuase its the only possible followup to that action other than shepard killing themselves.

you're wrong.  sorry. 

Your sig is awesome.