216 réponses à ce sujet

[2papercuts]

Considering that the pre EC ending is arguably the worst ending ever? Probably not

[sith stalker]

No we as fans did not over react,I post very seldom on here but i thought i needed to now, the original endings blew chucks we all know the reasons if you have read anything on these boards (to put it mildly) not to mention, how many other games garnered this kind of hype? to my knowledge none. (but as i have not played or watched the EC yet i can not pass judgment on that)

[MetioricTest]

Did we overreact? Yes.

Did the endings suck and damage the game series as a whole? Yes.

So it's not unexpected.

[RDSFirebane]

Kerasth wrote...

No torches and pitchforks, no overreaction.

^ This pretty much you want die hard fan's go talk to the Tribes 2 guys they not only hacked the game but made their own servers and showed up at court when the new company that bought the rights to it tried to shut them down. ( they couldnt of course the Fans one.) and thus far any tribes game thats come out to date that hasent been like 2 has been tanked with in a few months by these same 40+ year olds.

Bioware got the kiddy gloves and I'm sure they know it.

[Torrible]

Kileyan wrote...


This gets brought up every once in a while in relation to the Sopranos, Battlestar Galactica, Lost or <insert whatever show>.  The difference is games are not television. When I watch Sopranos I really don't have any choices other than going along for the ride. My only choices are whether I cheer for Tony to live, or realize he is a scumbag and not care so much about his characters outcome.

Mass Effect gives you choices, makes the character yours, they expect to win on their terms and do things their character would do. Hell maybe they expect to get their ending. Sometimes it isn't possible to give everyone their personal expected ending, but it can't be compared to the same expectation of watching a tv series.

One is interactive gaming and the other isn't. I personally don't want anymore linear shooter games that just shove me into the shoes of a nameless green dot sight AR-15 wielding hero, where nothing he does matters, because the single ending is defined, and the only way to avoid it, is to stop playing.

Mass Effect tried to do more than that, and it can't be compared to a disgruntled movie fan demanding a rewrite, to know what was in the briefcase at the end of Pulp Fiction. There is nothing wrong with a fan wanting what his character has done for 3 games to matter a little more than watching the end of the Sopranos.

This argument gets brought up pretty often too and it is a flawed one. Firstly, if the ending was narratively coherent and engaging, few would bother to 'demand a new ending' despite a distinct lack of choices. In other words, the major gripes fans had with the original ending are the same gripes TV fans had with LOST or BSG. Yet, fans of LOST would be certainly be publicy ridiculed if they ever attempted anything similar to Retake. 'Lack of choices' and 'false promises' are convenient arguments used by disappointed fans to pressure Bioware (along with boycott threats) into giving them what they want, a happier, more engaging ending with character resolutions and fewer plotholes.

None of the other Bioware games (or any RPG for that matter) ever provoked such a reaction from fans despite the illusion of choices in those games as well.

Even if your argument is valid, it just means it takes less for a video game fan to be disappointed. It means the endings of LOST and BSG would have to suck even more to be comparable to ME3's. And even if those endings suck twice as hard as before, Zero132132's points about how absurb it'd be for TV show fans to do start a campaign demanding a rewrite remain.

Of course, there is also this argument that it is logistically impossible (actor's and network's schedules and all) to do a reshoot for a TV show and then show it on the network again. It is defnitely much easier for a video game to be edited and distributed. However, I don't think it is right for fans to demand a rewrite for video games just because it is actually possible to give them what they want. The artistic integrity defense used by book authors and movie/TV writers should apply equally to Video Game writers.

Modifié par Torrible, 28 juin 2012 - 07:49 .

[babachewie]

yes

[Hendrik.III]

By far most of us just were made to expect something BW promised in their interviews and advertising. I do feel mislead, but they can always pull the "interpretation" card on that.

No, I don't think we overreacted. Some did, but most of us are just sorely disappointed in what we got - had they said they'd do this beforehand - we'd also reacted like we did because the ending is a downer compared to the entire series.

I do think there are a lot of people too emotionally invested in the game, talking about crying and such, but that goes to show how well they made the game... up to the ending.

Modifié par Hendrik.III, 28 juin 2012 - 07:42 .

[hexediter]

shurikenmanta wrote...

G Kevin wrote...

Danathon wrote...

You over-reacted. You know you did and you want to whitewash the fact that you did by retroactively covering it with all sorts of justifications and defences.

Instead of moving on like a rational human being you decided that the line had to be drawn over a video game. If you feel foolish now, that is a reasonable response to acting like a childish person with poor impulse control. If you still feel you are righteous over a videogame let me assure you that there will be many more opportunities for reality to **** slap you about your behaviour.

I respectfully disagree.

To some people Mass Effect was everything they knew. It was the most important thing to them, yet it's ok to tell them they are immature children because of that? From your perspective it might seem childish, probably because you have experienced worse, but the feeling is there. Whatever the reason for that terrible feeling, it is still just as rightfull to express.

Rational Human beings?

“People are not stupid. They believe things for reasons." -- Carl Sagan.

It is not irrational to feel like an ending to a video game, that was important to to some, was emotionally depressing, exhausting, or frustrating. It is justifiable case.

I don't want to sound like an ass, but if you think this was overreacting, then you have not been on various other forums, have you?

As cold as this sounds, if Mass Effect is the most important thing in the world to people, they really need to take a good hard look at their life and priorities.

I'll be honest, I don't pay the 'I'm depressed cause it sucked' folks much mind because I know for a fact 99% of them are hamming it up. The other 1% need help.

Emotinally investing yourself in a RPG is not weird, it's an RPG, it is by design trying to get you to be emotinally invested in it.  To then have people become depressed because the ending was terrible doesn't mean they need help.  Now those who thought about killing themselves yea they need help, but those who were sad or couldn't sleep for a night because of the bad taste in there mouth?  Seems normal to me.  You don't know for a fact how anyone feels, you're just spewing hubris and frankly it's disgusting.  Empathy and humility are traights you may want to consider developing at some point in life.

[RonnyB]

Yea some people overreacted but I think that's a good sign of how well people loved the games.

*Edited for post in wrong thread*

Modifié par RonnyB, 28 juin 2012 - 08:33 .

[The Edge]

Torrible wrote...

Kileyan wrote...


This gets brought up every once in a while in relation to the Sopranos, Battlestar Galactica, Lost or <insert whatever show>.  The difference is games are not television. When I watch Sopranos I really don't have any choices other than going along for the ride. My only choices are whether I cheer for Tony to live, or realize he is a scumbag and not care so much about his characters outcome.

Mass Effect gives you choices, makes the character yours, they expect to win on their terms and do things their character would do. Hell maybe they expect to get their ending. Sometimes it isn't possible to give everyone their personal expected ending, but it can't be compared to the same expectation of watching a tv series.

One is interactive gaming and the other isn't. I personally don't want anymore linear shooter games that just shove me into the shoes of a nameless green dot sight AR-15 wielding hero, where nothing he does matters, because the single ending is defined, and the only way to avoid it, is to stop playing.

Mass Effect tried to do more than that, and it can't be compared to a disgruntled movie fan demanding a rewrite, to know what was in the briefcase at the end of Pulp Fiction. There is nothing wrong with a fan wanting what his character has done for 3 games to matter a little more than watching the end of the Sopranos.

This argument gets brought up pretty often too and it is a flawed one. Firstly, if the ending was narratively coherent and engaging, few would bother to 'demand a new ending' despite a distinct lack of choices. In other words, the major gripes fans had with the original ending are the same gripes TV fans had with LOST or BSG. Yet, fans of LOST would be certainly be publicy ridiculed if they ever attempted anything similar to Retake. 'Lack of choices' and 'false promises' are convenient arguments used by disappointed fans to pressure Bioware with (along with boycott threats) into giving them what they want, a happier, more engaging ending with fewer plotholes and deus ex machina.

Even if your argument is valid, it just means it takes less for a video game fan to be disappointed. It means the endings of LOST and BSG would have to suck even more to be comparable to ME3's. And even if those endings suck twice as hard as before, Zero132132's points about how absurb it'd be for TV fans to do start a campaign demanding a rewrite remain.

Of course, there is also this argument that it is logistically impossible (actor's and network's schedules and all) to do a reshoot for a TV show and then show it on the network again. It is defnitely much easier for a video game to be edited and distributed. However, I don't think it is right for fans to demand a rewrite for video games just because it is actually possible to give them what they want. The artistic integrity defense used by book authors and movie/TV writers should apply equally to Video Game writers.

How is it "convenient" that Bioware made false statements about the ending beforehand (ABC endings, yaddayaddayadda)? 

Aside from arguing how "good/bad" the ending was, how can you say that the original endings were well done? Your squadmates teleported to the Normandy, Joker fleed on a whim, and the ending left no indication as to what actually happened. Without fan demands, chances are that BASIC and OBVIOUS pieces of context would've never been revealed by the EC. You can't use "ARTISTIC INTEGRITY" to defend flaws like these.

Plot holes aside, you have have the tonal shifts, lack of build up in regards to the synthetic/organic conflict through the entire series, and the arguably "most important" being (Star-child and poorly implemented cliche) being revealed at the last minute. I can't force Bioware to address any of these things (and they didn't), but I as a CONSUMER can express my dismay of the final PRODUCT.

[lettuceman44]

Simple answer: Yes.

edit: To clarify, it is one thing to think the ending sucked and to tell Bioware that. However it didn't stop there.

You had threats, you had people refusing to ever touch a Bioware made product ever again, you had people just do a 180 and not like Mass Effect anymore, and it just goes on. Now that is an overreaction.

Modifié par lettuceman44, 28 juin 2012 - 08:04 .

[KotorEffect3]

The fanbase overreacted and then some. In fact calling it an overreaction is an understatement.

[RainbowDazed]

Hell no.

Donating money to charity, starting facebook petitions, returning your game to store, discussing the endings on forums and sending cupcakes are not overreacting. They are in my eyes very constructive ways to deal with the situation. Voting EA the worst company in USA? Not overreacting and totally deserved.

Sending different color poo-piles to Bioware I would concider being on the line of being too much. But still funny.

If someone threathened Bioware employes or their families with violence or torched down the Bioware HQ, that'd be overreacting and also not cool in my books.

[Torrible]

The Edge wrote...

How is it "convenient" that Bioware made false statements about the ending beforehand (ABC endings, yaddayaddayadda)? 

 

You missed my point. Let me use an analogy. I ordered a blueberry pie from a cake shop. It tasted horrible so I wanted a refund. I realise I can't get a refund based on subjective taste so I looked for other ways to achieve it. I realise the cake had cranberries in it instead of blueberries so I sought a refund based on that. The thing is, cranberries had little to do with why I wanted a refund in the first place and I would have praised the baker if it had tasted good even with cranberries in it.

Aside from arguing how "good/bad" the ending was, how can you say that the original endings were well done? Your squadmates teleported to the Normandy, Joker fleed on a whim, and the ending left no indication as to what actually happened. Without fan demands, chances are that BASIC and OBVIOUS pieces of context would've never been revealed by the EC. You can't use "ARTISTIC INTEGRITY" to defend flaws like these.

  

I never said the original ending was well done. I agree that one cannot use Artistic Integrity to defend flaws in a game, but one can use it to defend one's right not to be coerced into rewriting a part of the game.

 
 I can't force Bioware to address any of these things (and they didn't), but I as a CONSUMER can express my dismay of the final PRODUCT.

I agree (except they did address most of the gripes fans had with the original ending), although the content of one's feedback shouldn't contain personal attacks or insults.

Modifié par Torrible, 28 juin 2012 - 09:06 .

[N-Seven]

Some people did, yep.

[Kathleen321]

Some did. I did. I still stand by most of what I said when I was asking for a new ending... but I regret that I was raging because I didn't think it was possible for Bioware to give a decent ending without changing it. I should have had more faith in the team. There are still things I wished were changed... but I'm happy. I just wish they hadn't rushed and given us the complete ending to begin with.

[ElementL09]

@Sweawm, an arguement can be made that we basically paid for the MP DLC and EC with microtransaction from multiplayer.

Ontopic:  No the fans didn't overreact.  Adding an Antagonist in the last 10 minutes....I'm sure someone from Bioware expected this reaction.

Modifié par ElementL09, 28 juin 2012 - 08:28 .

[antagonist99]

No, we didn't. If we hadn't reacted the way we did, the EC would have never come into being.

While clearly YMMV, it is a vast improvement over the original endings, yet leaves some things to be desired.

Spoiler:
To be quite frank, they could've just air-dropped a shuttle filled to the brim with soldiers right next to the beam with the Normandy. The ship wouldn't even have had to be stationary to do that, TBH.

[HenchxNarf]

krukow wrote...

No, they gave us crappy endings on the original discs with reused cinematics colored differently.

Yesterday they gave us awesome, differentiated endings.



That one guy who filed the FCC complaint overreacted.

The many people who offered death threats to BW employees and other fans overreacted.
The people who protested through charity over a video game overreacted.
The people who slammed everyone who had positive things to say about ME3 overreacted.
Lawsuits...billboards...returning the game via fraud....spamming EA with phonecalls and mail...cupcakes....child's play...

There were much more than just ONE person over reacting.

So yes, I think some fans overreacted. Vastly.

Modifié par HenchxNarf, 28 juin 2012 - 08:34 .

[Jadebaby]

All I needed was one picture knowing Shepard survives, if they had of given me that, then I would have overlooked certain plot choices introduced in the final minutes. But no, they didn't. Seriously!?

[Twinkles DeVere]

There was a small minority who went over the top posting extreme statements, threats and hate posts.

Otherwise everyone was quite right to have the opinion that the first ending was total crap. It was plot holes galore and very confusing. Most people just said they thought it was really bad, and had (many) sensible reasons for why that was. Most people didn't do anything more than that.

[HenchxNarf]

Twinkles DeVere wrote...

There was a small minority who went over the top posting extreme statements, threats and hate posts.

Otherwise everyone was quite right to have the opinion that the first ending was total crap. It was plot holes galore and very confusing. Most people just said they thought it was really bad, and had (many) sensible reasons for why that was. Most people didn't do anything more than that.

I guess you weren't here when a number of people were run off the boards for having a positive outlook on ME3. The number of people who overreacted was quite large, and they were very...bullying.

[Manton-X2]

I really do get tired of hearing "It's just a game." You can say that about everything. "It's just" or "it's only". As humans, we invest ourselves in things that we do. We put some of ourselves, our time, our money into it and we feel strongly about them. Stop belittling people because you don't really give a crap.

Some guy spends 6 months restoring a car and while it's sitting in a parking lot it gets dinged and he goes off. Yea, it's only a car to you, but it's not to him. His feelings and emotions are valid. Someone spends 200 hours building a scale model sailing ship. Someone picks it up and snaps of the mast and he goes ballistic. "It's just" a toy ship. No, it's not. Not to him. It doesn't matter what the hell you think it is, he is the one who has given it meaning.

For me, with my work schedule, I put in usually 50-60 hours a week on a night shift, most weeks it feels like all I do is work and sleep. Mass Effect has been that thing I can do to blow of steam and relax for 30-60 mins at the end of a work day at 3 in the morning. I've spent literally thousands of hours exploring this universe over the last 5 years. My character looks like me. His actions are chosen by me. I became emotionally attached (both positively and negatively) to the characters.

So don't give me "it's just a game." That is meaningless.

[RainbowDazed]

I want to add that even though I am satisfied with the EC, I still dislike how Bioware marketed ME3 in a way that raised expectations, then sold us an unfinished product and then made it sound like the fault is at the consumers who do not get their ending. None of that has changed. Bioware has not apologized, they have not admitted that they screwed up. And because of that I am going to be cautious with Bioware products in the future.

Yes, they pulled it off at the end, but I am not interested in coming a paying beta-tester to their games. When I buy a game, I want a finished product.

So, I am happy that I got the EC and I thank Bioware for it. I will be keeping an eye out for the stuff Bioware releases in the future. But I do not trust them anymore in the same way I did before ME3.

[Harbinger of your Destiny]

v0rt3x22 wrote...

Over-interpret. Maybe.
Over-react. No.