120 réponses à ce sujet

[darkchief10]

weltraumhamster89 wrote...

OldSwede wrote...

I had EDI in my squad, so before the beam, when Normandy came (completely unharmed) to pick them up, EDI said something like "This unit can be rebuilt"...It wasn't those exact words, but anyway ;-)

Did she Yeah I thought about what would happen if you take her with you. That is a nice addition to my theory, thank you.

i think she meant the body, EDI herself is the normandy

[vanom66]

EDI is gone ,  blue box and all that and the geth still had a bad rep and were JUST NOW showing that they're cooperative and helpful nation to society and not the crazy death machines and poster boys of AI gone rouge . So I doubt anyone would want to even build them..

Modifié par vanom66, 27 juin 2012 - 11:54 .

[OldSwede]

weltraumhamster89 wrote...

OldSwede wrote...

I had EDI in my squad, so before the beam, when Normandy came (completely unharmed) to pick them up, EDI said something like "This unit can be rebuilt"...It wasn't those exact words, but anyway ;-)

Did she Yeah I thought about what would happen if you take her with you. That is a nice addition to my theory, thank you.

Your welcome, glad I could help :-) but it's a pity I can't recall the exact phrase. I saved before the beam with Modeo, so I can go back and check if you'd like? (just not today/night for me, since I'm so tired now, but maybe tomorrow, Friday).
(edit: I'm on the Xbox so it takes some time as well, and I'm in bed now, otherwise I could probably do it right away)

Also, of course, Shepard has to reply to that with a paragon or renegade answer (I chose paragon, but I believe they both will tell her that she is needed on the Normandy)

Modifié par OldSwede, 27 juin 2012 - 11:59 .

[Blc949]

I've gotta be a smartass.... but...

Speculation for everyone!!!

But I'm ok with these kinds of speculation for the record.

[TamiBx]

vanom66 wrote...

EDI gone blue box and all that and the geth still had a bad rep and were JUST NOW showing that they're cooperative and helpful nation to society and not the crazy death machines and poster boys of AI gone rouge . So I doubt anyone would want to even build them..

Then we won't have a synthetic vs organic problem now, will we? 


I personally think EDI's death is just like Ashley/Kaidan, Thane, Mordin, any ME2 squadmate lost: it was a sacrifice. Sorry she died, but she's not the only one who died to save the galaxy. It was necessary so organics could live while keeping their current form and winning the war. 

[weltraumhamster89]

darkchief10 wrote...


i don't know the geth reached sentience completely on their own, by accident. what I'm trying to get at is we can use the parts to rebuild them but they might take a completely different path to ascend, and will therefore ceise being geth, they will be a completely new race of synthethics

I know what you're getting at, but they could be MOSTLY Geth depending on how much memory/ data could be saved. The Geth have been altered quite a lot over the 3 ME-games, just remember the heretics and now LEgion who has sacrificied himself to completly alter the Geth again and give them Reaper upgrades which made them fully evolved AIs. So this to me makes them another race every time if you want to put it like that.

So rebuilding them and reconstructing their consciousness/ "souls" would be just like rewriting them (ME2) or altering them to Legion's advanced AI (ME3). So not exactly a new race, but Geth altered again, depending on what we could save.

[GothamLord]

darkchief10 wrote...

GothamLord wrote...

darkchief10 wrote...

usmack5 wrote...

darkchief10 wrote...

you can rebuild the body, not the individual, the individual has been forever destroyed.
its like me killing garrus to save the galaxy and then cloning him, yes physically it's still him but spirtually that is not my friend

Then Shepard for all of ME2 and ME3 is not actually Shepard.

nope he's not, I believe it is a vi posing as shepard

Doesnt Liara verify its the *real* Shepard at one point in conversation towards the end of ME3?  I believe this was actually stated as she can recognize his brain patterns or whatever from all the Asari mind-linking mumbo-jumbo. 

so no one got the reference then?

24:00

 

[Heeden]

Kushan101 wrote...

The only thing I can think of: according to the codex, an AI requires a quantum "blue box" which, when loaded with the correct files, creates an AI. You can copy the same files, in the same order, to another blue box and the resultant AI will be a completely different personality. Assuming the blue box is shorted out, or had everything on it erased, even if there was a way of retrieving everything on it: EDI is dead. Her particular personality is gone forever.

The Geth? Yeah, I got nothing.

The same could be said for Shepard after he fell in to a planet.

[weltraumhamster89]

This again:
I know what you're getting at, but they could be MOSTLY Geth depending on how much memory/ data could be saved. The Geth have been altered quite a lot over the 3 ME-games, just remember the heretics and now LEgion who has sacrificied himself to completly alter the Geth again and give them Reaper upgrades which made them fully evolved AIs. So this to me makes them another race every time if you want to put it like that.

So rebuilding them and reconstructing their consciousness/ "souls" would be just like rewriting them (ME2) or altering them to Legion's advanced AI (ME3). So not exactly a new race, but Geth altered again, depending on what we could save.

PLUS EDIT: Ok, EDI is another story, but I also regard her as a sacrifice just like Mordin, Legion etc., thank you for that.

[Spartas Husky]

They weren't destroyed. Stop trying to work around bioware's disregard for their own lore. Control Shockwave can discriminate who controls why cant destroy shockwave do the same? U can control only reapers, but u can't just press the button to destroy only reapers?... ridiculous.

[weltraumhamster89]

Spartas Husky wrote...

They weren't destroyed. Stop trying to work around bioware's disregard for their own lore. Control Shockwave can discriminate who controls why cant destroy shockwave do the same? U can control only reapers, but u can't just press the button to destroy only reapers?... ridiculous.

What you say is valid and personally I find it ridiculous as well, but I just want to be somehow happier about the ending, so I piece together what they give me and am happy about a (very likely?) reunion with LI - dont really care about the plotholes anymore as I knew they wouldnt change anything. Now they at least took care of my personal biggest concern --> reunion with LI/ Garrus.

Of course it is still absolutely nonsensical space magic bullcrap.

[Heeden]

Spartas Husky wrote...

They weren't destroyed. Stop trying to work around bioware's disregard for their own lore. Control Shockwave can discriminate who controls why cant destroy shockwave do the same? U can control only reapers, but u can't just press the button to destroy only reapers?... ridiculous.

Control is presumably Reaper-reprogramming, it will only work on machines that use the same OS. Destroy is more like an EMP wave - it can be fine-tuned to do most damage to Reapers but it will still damage all technology.

[ClockworkSpectre]

vanom66 wrote...

EDI is gone ,  blue box and all that and the geth still had a bad rep and were JUST NOW showing that they're cooperative and helpful nation to society and not the crazy death machines and poster boys of AI gone rouge . So I doubt anyone would want to even build them..

Did you not pay attention to the game, or skip the mission when you entered the geth server?

The geth were not rouge, they defended themselves against a master that turned violent on them.  They let the quarians escape, and they only fought back because they were attacked in the events just before you go to Rannoch.  They never had any dirrected animocity except when they were controlled by the reapers(heretics from me1).

Heeden wrote...

Control is presumably
Reaper-reprogramming, it will only work on machines that use the same
OS. Destroy is more like an EMP wave - it can be fine-tuned to do most
damage to Reapers but it will still damage all technology.

That is why I would think there is a slight chance of reviving EDI and the Geth.  The Destroy wave is meant to kill reapers and as a side effect it damages most other tech.  But Bioware seems to have just decided to kill them off with no chance of repair.

Modifié par ClockworkSpectre, 28 juin 2012 - 12:25 .

[Heeden]

ClockworkSpectre wrote...

That is why I would think there is a slight chance of reviving EDI and the Geth.  The Destroy wave is meant to kill reapers and as a side effect it damages most other tech.  But Bioware seems to have just decided to kill them off with no chance of repair.

We can work on it, maybe we won't get the same entities back but we can explain and try to move towards a form of Synthesis together but still, I reckon the Geth and EDI will be Lazerable.

[memorysquid]

Taboo-XX wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

"Soon, your children will create synthetics and the chaos will come back."

An appeal to probability.

A is possible/therefore A is absolute.

A logical fallacy.

The Geth also introduce a variable that shows his data to be false, at least somewhat.

Action based on inductive probability is the basis of scientific principle.

[memorysquid]

weltraumhamster89 wrote...

If everthing can be repaired and rebuilt, why not EDI and the Geth? There should be enough Geth lying around everywhere after they have been shut down - and EDI was built from Cerberus and there are many Cerberus ex-scientists on Shep's side, so they could help there.

Because they consist of a quantum blue box and software.  Once those are destroyed they're done.  You could make new ones, maybe not the Geth since they evolved spontaneously and no one seems to be really sure how they work.

[Taboo]

memorysquid wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

"Soon, your children will create synthetics and the chaos will come back."

An appeal to probability.

A is possible/therefore A is absolute.

A logical fallacy.

The Geth also introduce a variable that shows his data to be false, at least somewhat.

Action based on inductive probability is the basis of scientific principle.

He does not present probability. Probability is not fallacious, appealing to it is.

His approach is not presented as scientific.

[Spartas Husky]

Heeden wrote...

Spartas Husky wrote...

They weren't destroyed. Stop trying to work around bioware's disregard for their own lore. Control Shockwave can discriminate who controls why cant destroy shockwave do the same? U can control only reapers, but u can't just press the button to destroy only reapers?... ridiculous.

Control is presumably Reaper-reprogramming, it will only work on machines that use the same OS. Destroy is more like an EMP wave - it can be fine-tuned to do most damage to Reapers but it will still damage all technology.

Control sends a signal to all reapers, obey.

Destroy can send a signal to all reapers, ...blow

no? too nonsensical? am I too far out of the box there?

Modifié par Spartas Husky, 28 juin 2012 - 12:59 .

[weltraumhamster89]

memorysquid wrote...

weltraumhamster89 wrote...

If everthing can be repaired and rebuilt, why not EDI and the Geth? There should be enough Geth lying around everywhere after they have been shut down - and EDI was built from Cerberus and there are many Cerberus ex-scientists on Shep's side, so they could help there.

Because they consist of a quantum blue box and software.  Once those are destroyed they're done.  You could make new ones, maybe not the Geth since they evolved spontaneously and no one seems to be really sure how they work.

Still think the Quarians (especially Tali as she is the Geth-expert) could repair them in time and give them back their fully evolved AIs - but in fact it does not really matter, new forms of AIs will evolve anyway, so the Geth or other AIs will definitely be created again. I'm sorry for EDI, but I personally was a lot more attached to Mordin and Legion.

[OldSwede]

darkchief10 wrote...

weltraumhamster89 wrote...

OldSwede wrote...

I had EDI in my squad, so before the beam, when Normandy came (completely unharmed) to pick them up, EDI said something like "This unit can be rebuilt"...It wasn't those exact words, but anyway ;-)

Did she Yeah I thought about what would happen if you take her with you. That is a nice addition to my theory, thank you.

i think she meant the body, EDI herself is the normandy

Yes, I suppose she did (I haven't checked it again, exactly how she put it, but I do believe what you said, darkchief)

PS. I have tried all endings and was about to try with different squad mates, that's why I saved my game/Autosaves with Modeo, and I am probably a "bad" person because I rather choose Synthesis, since I feel so bad for Joker otherwise. LOL (I'm hopeless with that. I really, really feel bad for him, losing EDI)

Modifié par OldSwede, 28 juin 2012 - 10:21 .

[nhcre8tv1]

OldSwede wrote...

darkchief10 wrote...

weltraumhamster89 wrote...

OldSwede wrote...

I had EDI in my squad, so before the beam, when Normandy came (completely unharmed) to pick them up, EDI said something like "This unit can be rebuilt"...It wasn't those exact words, but anyway ;-)

Did she Yeah I thought about what would happen if you take her with you. That is a nice addition to my theory, thank you.

i think she meant the body, EDI herself is the normandy

Yes, I suppose she did (I haven't checked it again, exactly how she put it, but I do believe what you said, darkchief)

PS. I have tried all endings and was about to try with different squad mates, that's why I saved my game/Autosaves with Modeo, and I am probably a bad person because I rather choose Synthesis, since I feel so bad for Joker otherwise. LOL

 

She said "I can initiate repairs, the Normandys survival is not strategic."
And Shepard was all HURR DURRR IM SHEPURRR and then the thing happened.

Edit: Here's the scene

Modifié par nhcre8tv1, 28 juin 2012 - 10:23 .

[memorysquid]

Taboo-XX wrote...

memorysquid wrote...

Taboo-XX wrote...

saracen16 wrote...

"Soon, your children will create synthetics and the chaos will come back."

An appeal to probability.

A is possible/therefore A is absolute.

A logical fallacy.

The Geth also introduce a variable that shows his data to be false, at least somewhat.

Action based on inductive probability is the basis of scientific principle.

He does not present probability. Probability is not fallacious, appealing to it is.

His approach is not presented as scientific.

His approach is still barely presented, but they give little in game evidence that he is irrational or tries things untested.  Maybe they are planning DLC or the next series focuses on him?  There is more room for him making an error of logic and acting on it, but he seems to be free enough and willing to try new approaches and just lacking in the joie de vivre that this cycle brought to the Crucible and especially Shepard's bodacity.

[TKDancer]

The geth? they could be rebuilt, or they saved themselves somehow, thing is they have the galaxy with proof of what had gievn them true sentinence and the price, if they were to survive or be rebuilt I believe they'd help the quarians and leave rannoch and the milk way.
EDI? maybe, a longshot... but that's why i like to bring her with me just to feel better(if she is in your final squad she'd appear at the normandy crash )she was built with tech from Soverign, and now we have thousands of dead reapers scatered through the galaxy, plus she is AI she thimks and process much faster than humans, the could have upload herself somewhere safe? tricked the reapers with their own tech? IDK, but i think it is possible.

[MerchantGOL]

GothamLord wrote...

darkchief10 wrote...

you can rebuild the body, not the individual, the individual has been forever destroyed.

Cerberus and the Lazarus Project would like to argue with you on that.  Shepard was "rebuilt" as an individual. Mind and body. 

thats because their was still a mind to rebuild

a synthetics mind is soft ware not hardware

[Lord_Frostwind]

Sure, you could rebuild them. However, you'd be rebuilding them back at the basic level. All their experience, their thought processes, everything they have developed would be lost. Geth would be back to the way they were at the start of Morning War, and EDI would be just like she was at the start of ME2.

In essence, yes, but you can't bring them back the way they were, that would be gone forever just like cloning a person they wouldn't be the same as their predecessor.