120 réponses à ce sujet

[MageTarot]

I was under the impression that EDI (the body) was a physical extension of EDI (the program). During one of the first conversations you have with her after she takes over Dr. Eva Core's body she says something to the effect that she exists primarily on the ship but the body can operate as long as it is within broadcast or tightbeam range.

The main question is if during the scene where the Normandy is trying to escape the energy pulse emitted by the Crucible (given the 'destroy' option was chosen), does the pulse overtake the Normandy and delete EDI from the ship?


One more speculation point to debate, I guess...

[Dr. Megaverse]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
An AI can't turn itself off. Turning off an AI is the same as killing it. Once you turn the AI back on it will be a new and different AI with a different "personality". So this question is redundant and doesn't need to be answered.

Furthermore... since no other technology is affected then we can assume it only targets software... But what about a geth program on a destroyed or deactivated Geth platform? IF the HD was not affected but the platform is turned off... then moving the HD and the software inside to a working platform would reactivate the Geth, since Geth are complex software lifeforms, able to change platforms, so destroying the platform does not destroy the Geth, unless you physically destroy the place where the data is stored.
Would then be Geth survivors trapped on deactivated platforms scattered on earth?

Like I said, it is not possible for an AI to be stored on a deactivated platform. Turning off the platform is effectively killing it.

What if EDI make back up copies of herself and store them on external HD, completely turned off... would the magic software finder of the red light be able to detect it?

EDI can't make copies of herself. She could duplicate her code into another quantum blue blox, but the copy would not be EDI, it would be a new AI.
And like I said before, you can't store an AI on a turned off device. 
A turned off AI = a dead AI.

So, when you get the deactivated body of Legion in ME2...is he dead? 

[The Heretic of Time]

Dr. Megaverse wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
An AI can't turn itself off. Turning off an AI is the same as killing it. Once you turn the AI back on it will be a new and different AI with a different "personality". So this question is redundant and doesn't need to be answered.

Furthermore... since no other technology is affected then we can assume it only targets software... But what about a geth program on a destroyed or deactivated Geth platform? IF the HD was not affected but the platform is turned off... then moving the HD and the software inside to a working platform would reactivate the Geth, since Geth are complex software lifeforms, able to change platforms, so destroying the platform does not destroy the Geth, unless you physically destroy the place where the data is stored.
Would then be Geth survivors trapped on deactivated platforms scattered on earth?

Like I said, it is not possible for an AI to be stored on a deactivated platform. Turning off the platform is effectively killing it.

What if EDI make back up copies of herself and store them on external HD, completely turned off... would the magic software finder of the red light be able to detect it?

EDI can't make copies of herself. She could duplicate her code into another quantum blue blox, but the copy would not be EDI, it would be a new AI.
And like I said before, you can't store an AI on a turned off device. 
A turned off AI = a dead AI.

So, when you get the deactivated body of Legion in ME2...is he dead? 

No, he's probably not turned off or fully deactivated, he's probably just in sleep-mode, you know, like your computer can also enter sleep-mode if you leave it on but don't use it for a long time.


EDI specifically states that when you shut down an AI, it dies. When you turn it back on, it won't be the same AI anymore.

[dreman9999]

GothamLord wrote...

darkchief10 wrote...

you can rebuild the body, not the individual, the individual has been forever destroyed.

Cerberus and the Lazarus Project would like to argue with you on that.  Shepard was "rebuilt" as an individual. Mind and body. 

We still had Shepards intact brain. We don't have the geth or EDI's intact data.

On that, EDI is gone. She needs Reaper code to be EDI.  The geth can be rebuilt but they will be like the way they were before the reaper code.

[dreman9999]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Dr. Megaverse wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
An AI can't turn itself off. Turning off an AI is the same as killing it. Once you turn the AI back on it will be a new and different AI with a different "personality". So this question is redundant and doesn't need to be answered.

Furthermore... since no other technology is affected then we can assume it only targets software... But what about a geth program on a destroyed or deactivated Geth platform? IF the HD was not affected but the platform is turned off... then moving the HD and the software inside to a working platform would reactivate the Geth, since Geth are complex software lifeforms, able to change platforms, so destroying the platform does not destroy the Geth, unless you physically destroy the place where the data is stored.
Would then be Geth survivors trapped on deactivated platforms scattered on earth?

Like I said, it is not possible for an AI to be stored on a deactivated platform. Turning off the platform is effectively killing it.

What if EDI make back up copies of herself and store them on external HD, completely turned off... would the magic software finder of the red light be able to detect it?

EDI can't make copies of herself. She could duplicate her code into another quantum blue blox, but the copy would not be EDI, it would be a new AI.
And like I said before, you can't store an AI on a turned off device. 
A turned off AI = a dead AI.

So, when you get the deactivated body of Legion in ME2...is he dead? 

No, he's probably not turned off or fully deactivated, he's probably just in sleep-mode, you know, like your computer can also enter sleep-mode if you leave it on but don't use it for a long time.


EDI specifically states that when you shut down an AI, it dies. When you turn it back on, it won't be the same AI anymore.

Your joking right?

[The Heretic of Time]

dreman9999 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Dr. Megaverse wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
An AI can't turn itself off. Turning off an AI is the same as killing it. Once you turn the AI back on it will be a new and different AI with a different "personality". So this question is redundant and doesn't need to be answered.

Furthermore... since no other technology is affected then we can assume it only targets software... But what about a geth program on a destroyed or deactivated Geth platform? IF the HD was not affected but the platform is turned off... then moving the HD and the software inside to a working platform would reactivate the Geth, since Geth are complex software lifeforms, able to change platforms, so destroying the platform does not destroy the Geth, unless you physically destroy the place where the data is stored.
Would then be Geth survivors trapped on deactivated platforms scattered on earth?

Like I said, it is not possible for an AI to be stored on a deactivated platform. Turning off the platform is effectively killing it.

What if EDI make back up copies of herself and store them on external HD, completely turned off... would the magic software finder of the red light be able to detect it?

EDI can't make copies of herself. She could duplicate her code into another quantum blue blox, but the copy would not be EDI, it would be a new AI.
And like I said before, you can't store an AI on a turned off device. 
A turned off AI = a dead AI.

So, when you get the deactivated body of Legion in ME2...is he dead? 

No, he's probably not turned off or fully deactivated, he's probably just in sleep-mode, you know, like your computer can also enter sleep-mode if you leave it on but don't use it for a long time.


EDI specifically states that when you shut down an AI, it dies. When you turn it back on, it won't be the same AI anymore.

Your joking right?

Pay attention when you're playing Mass Effect next time, then you'll know I'm not joking.

[Dr. Megaverse]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Dr. Megaverse wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
An AI can't turn itself off. Turning off an AI is the same as killing it. Once you turn the AI back on it will be a new and different AI with a different "personality". So this question is redundant and doesn't need to be answered.

Furthermore... since no other technology is affected then we can assume it only targets software... But what about a geth program on a destroyed or deactivated Geth platform? IF the HD was not affected but the platform is turned off... then moving the HD and the software inside to a working platform would reactivate the Geth, since Geth are complex software lifeforms, able to change platforms, so destroying the platform does not destroy the Geth, unless you physically destroy the place where the data is stored.
Would then be Geth survivors trapped on deactivated platforms scattered on earth?

Like I said, it is not possible for an AI to be stored on a deactivated platform. Turning off the platform is effectively killing it.

What if EDI make back up copies of herself and store them on external HD, completely turned off... would the magic software finder of the red light be able to detect it?

EDI can't make copies of herself. She could duplicate her code into another quantum blue blox, but the copy would not be EDI, it would be a new AI.
And like I said before, you can't store an AI on a turned off device. 
A turned off AI = a dead AI.

So, when you get the deactivated body of Legion in ME2...is he dead? 

No, he's probably not turned off or fully deactivated, he's probably just in sleep-mode, you know, like your computer can also enter sleep-mode if you leave it on but don't use it for a long time.


EDI specifically states that when you shut down an AI, it dies. When you turn it back on, it won't be the same AI anymore.

Your joking right?

Pay attention when you're playing Mass Effect next time, then you'll know I'm not joking.

How about instead of flinging insults you provide us with referenced proof of your statement, otherwise we have to assume it's an opinion. 

[dreman9999]

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...

Dr. Megaverse wrote...

Heretic_Hanar wrote...
An AI can't turn itself off. Turning off an AI is the same as killing it. Once you turn the AI back on it will be a new and different AI with a different "personality". So this question is redundant and doesn't need to be answered.

Furthermore... since no other technology is affected then we can assume it only targets software... But what about a geth program on a destroyed or deactivated Geth platform? IF the HD was not affected but the platform is turned off... then moving the HD and the software inside to a working platform would reactivate the Geth, since Geth are complex software lifeforms, able to change platforms, so destroying the platform does not destroy the Geth, unless you physically destroy the place where the data is stored.
Would then be Geth survivors trapped on deactivated platforms scattered on earth?

Like I said, it is not possible for an AI to be stored on a deactivated platform. Turning off the platform is effectively killing it.

What if EDI make back up copies of herself and store them on external HD, completely turned off... would the magic software finder of the red light be able to detect it?

EDI can't make copies of herself. She could duplicate her code into another quantum blue blox, but the copy would not be EDI, it would be a new AI.
And like I said before, you can't store an AI on a turned off device. 
A turned off AI = a dead AI.

So, when you get the deactivated body of Legion in ME2...is he dead? 

No, he's probably not turned off or fully deactivated, he's probably just in sleep-mode, you know, like your computer can also enter sleep-mode if you leave it on but don't use it for a long time.


EDI specifically states that when you shut down an AI, it dies. When you turn it back on, it won't be the same AI anymore.

Your joking right?

Pay attention when you're playing Mass Effect next time, then you'll know I'm not joking.

It's nothing about paying attion. It the concept of synthetic life you missing. AI/synthetic bodies die does not mean death. It's the death of the persona that means death. Every thing that made Legion  what he is, his perspective, memory, consept and persona was taken appart and spear with in the geth. Legion is dead. His body is not.
Also, what EDI said was about moving bodies not turn AI's off.

Modifié par dreman9999, 07 août 2012 - 04:00 .

[Ranger Jack Walker]

No. EDI's Blue Box can be rebuilt but it's stated in the codex that it would be a completely new AI with a vastly different personality.

The Geth going from networked VI to sentient networked programmes was an accident. Even if you could repeat that accident and rebuild the Geth, the loss of the Old Machine Code ensures that they would not regain individuality.

[The Heretic of Time]

dreman9999 wrote...

It's nothing about paying attion. It the concept of synthetic life you missing. AI/synthetic bodies die does not mean death. It's the death of the persona that means death.

Which is exactly what happens when you turn of a system that stores an AI on it. Once the AI is turned of, the persona dies. When you turn the AI back on, it will have a new persona. This is the fact that you are missing.

Every thing that made Legion  what he is, his perspective, memory, consept and persona was taken appart and spear with in the geth.

And this is EXACTLY that you will lose if you would completely shut down Legion. That is my point.

Also, what EDI said was about moving bodies not turn AI's off.

What EDI said is that if you copied her algorithms into another blue-box, it would create another AI, not a copy of her. She said that even if you would simply turn her systems off and back on, you'd get a completely new peraona, not a copy of her. It won't be EDI anymore.

[Reorte]

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

No. EDI's Blue Box can be rebuilt but it's stated in the codex that it would be a completely new AI with a vastly different personality.

The Geth going from networked VI to sentient networked programmes was an accident. Even if you could repeat that accident and rebuild the Geth, the loss of the Old Machine Code ensures that they would not regain individuality.

We don't know that that's what's damaged for EDI. Without knowing more details anything is speculation. The game seems to imply that she's gone for good by putting her name up on the wall. That might be a joke.

I agree about individual geth post-upgrades (IMO that was a move that made them less interesting anyway). The pre-upgrade geth should be recreatable although not exactly as they were. That's arguably not too much of a problem with the geth, if most of their databases are intact, because they always would've had a continually changing and amorphous identity anyway. They wouldn't be the same as they would've been but the same would be true for absolutely anything that affected them at all.

[Dr. Megaverse]

 Geth are therefore immortal; if their hardware is destroyed, archival copies of their programs and databases can be downloaded into a new body.

That's from the codex on Geth culture. So provided that the physical software storage systems were unaffected, almost every Geth has an archival back up of themselves somewhere.  We know that the Normandy's onboard computers were not fried with high enough EMS, so would the systems which store the Geth be fried if they are made of the same physical materials?  When you consider that we know Geth were loaded onto Quarrian suits you have to ask, we're the Quarrian's suits fried?  They are made of the same fundamental physical materials that both the Normandy and Geth platforms would be.  If not, we're the Geth softwares in the suits ok?

Logically, one of the first steps you'd take in countering the existensial threat the Geth represent would be, well, weapons designed to kill synthetic life, right?  What exactly is the Crucible with high enough EMS?  A weapon designed to kill synthetic life.  Stay with me here.  Let's say the Geth abstract this possibility, isn't self perpetuation and survival a trait of "life", and perhaps make plans for weapons based on energy which are designed to kill synthetic life.  Could the Geth have devised a way to survive such an attack?  Given the high probability they'd have most likely encountered that from any organics they encountered anyways I'd like to think so.

Speculations

Modifié par Dr. Megaverse, 08 août 2012 - 03:32 .

[TorturousKitty]

Pretty late reply to the topic, but I've been struggling with the idea that EDI and the geth really die in the Destroy ending. Yes, I do think they were "destroyed." However, as others have speculated I think that EDI and the geth could be rebuilt. I think it really depends on how much was destroyed. If it mostly damages reaper technology, maybe only parts of them would be destroyed.

In the case of EDI, she probably wouldn't be the same, but she could possibly retain SOME of her previous personality if she were fixed/rebuilt. Since she exists in the Normandy and we see that the Normandy is alright in the Extended Cut, that means there is a chance part of her AI survived within it as long as the "blue box" wasn't fully destroyed. Lastly, considering that Shepard is able to live in this ending it would make sense that other synthetic/partially synthetic lifeforms could retain some of their former selves. That's my mostly optimistic opinion anyway.

And I'd just like to say that since these endings are left somewhat ambiguous, it really is up to the player to decide what happens after the credits. If I want to believe that they can be recovered, I'm going to believe it until something canon dismisses my opinion. People should just believe what they want! C:

[jacobfl11]

What I wonder about the Geth, is that they 'live' in a virtual world, so wouldn't they just lose their platforms, not their 'life'?

Dr. Megaverse wrote...

 Geth are therefore immortal; if their hardware is destroyed, archival copies of their programs and databases can be downloaded into a new body.

That's from the codex on Geth culture. So provided that the physical software storage systems were unaffected, almost every Geth has an archival back up of themselves somewhere.  We know that the Normandy's onboard computers were not fried with high enough EMS, so would the systems which store the Geth be fried if they are made of the same physical materials?  When you consider that we know Geth were loaded onto Quarrian suits you have to ask, we're the Quarrian's suits fried?  They are made of the same fundamental physical materials that both the Normandy and Geth platforms would be.  If not, we're the Geth softwares in the suits ok?

Logically, one of the first steps you'd take in countering the existensial threat the Geth represent would be, well, weapons designed to kill synthetic life, right?  What exactly is the Crucible with high enough EMS?  A weapon designed to kill synthetic life.  Stay with me here.  Let's say the Geth abstract this possibility, isn't self perpetuation and survival a trait of "life", and perhaps make plans for weapons based on energy which are designed to kill synthetic life.  Could the Geth have devised a way to survive such an attack?  Given the high probability they'd have most likely encountered that from any organics they encountered anyways I'd like to think so. 

Speculations 

So basically only EDI and KEI-9 die?

Modifié par jacobfl11, 16 novembre 2012 - 03:29 .

[LoLo1498]

 In destroy maybe the Geth can be salvaged, I mean if their consensus is intact than all they need is bodies. Which the quarians could probably build a few of those. Then the Geth can self sustain. For EDI though, they can easily rebuild her a more new and better body. As far as her personality goes, if the box thing is fine than she can live. It's possible that there were backups. I don't really know about EDI, although in the citadel DLC she was "disconnected" form the Normandy temporarily, so maybe she can be inactive or in a "sleep mode" until they restore her. The illusive man's base also created the AI version of her they probably would have her how she was when she was installed. That's a start. To the person that said Shepard was a VI. That goes against Dr. Chakwas and EDI saying the Commander is organic with small enhancements. Also, Miranda said TIM wouldn't even let her put a chip in her, so I doubt he'd have a VI run her.

Modifié par LoLo1498, 13 avril 2013 - 07:00 .

[EnvyTB075]

Pssh, they said headcanon is canon, and i headcanon that they survive.

So nerr.

[LoLo1498]

Dr. Megaverse wrote...

 Geth are therefore immortal; if their hardware is destroyed, archival copies of their programs and databases can be downloaded into a new body.

That's from the codex on Geth culture. So provided that the physical software storage systems were unaffected, almost every Geth has an archival back up of themselves somewhere.  We know that the Normandy's onboard computers were not fried with high enough EMS, so would the systems which store the Geth be fried if they are made of the same physical materials?  When you consider that we know Geth were loaded onto Quarrian suits you have to ask, we're the Quarrian's suits fried?  They are made of the same fundamental physical materials that both the Normandy and Geth platforms would be.  If not, we're the Geth softwares in the suits ok?

Logically, one of the first steps you'd take in countering the existensial threat the Geth represent would be, well, weapons designed to kill synthetic life, right?  What exactly is the Crucible with high enough EMS?  A weapon designed to kill synthetic life.  Stay with me here.  Let's say the Geth abstract this possibility, isn't self perpetuation and survival a trait of "life", and perhaps make plans for weapons based on energy which are designed to kill synthetic life.  Could the Geth have devised a way to survive such an attack?  Given the high probability they'd have most likely encountered that from any organics they encountered anyways I'd like to think so.

Speculations

The geth are software that's why they could fix the quarians immune systems via their enviro-suits.

Modifié par LoLo1498, 13 avril 2013 - 07:02 .

[LoLo1498]

Ranger Jack Walker wrote...

No. EDI's Blue Box can be rebuilt but it's stated in the codex that it would be a completely new AI with a vastly different personality.

The Geth going from networked VI to sentient networked programmes was an accident. Even if you could repeat that accident and rebuild the Geth, the loss of the Old Machine Code ensures that they would not regain individuality.

Unless the Old Machine Code is in the Geth concensus. (Assuming it wasn't destroyed.)

[Yestare7]

Can they be re-built?

OFCOURSE they can!!!

[Astartes Marine]

Yet another in a long line of necrothreads. This time from ten months ago. Super.

Anyways, about the Geth, see signature below:

[Yestare7]

they are just Robots.

they can be re-built.