138 réponses à ce sujet

[TehMerc]

Adhok42 wrote...
I really enjoy messing with people who try to use sarcam by replying seriously sometimes.

Welp, can't blame me with your previous posting history

[ntrisley]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Adhok42 wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

I should add that for my occurrence, I actually had everything I could into +damage for Tactical Cloak and + weapon damage on Alliance Training.

There's something going on with the single shots, and I'm very puzzled by it.

I warned. "You'll **** the Snipers over." I said. "Why the hell do you want less carnage?" I asked.

But nope. They had to have their damage nerf. I'm feeling it. You're feeling it. We're all feeling it.

I'm not feeling "it" 

And i'm still seeing the same amount of carnage. 

And i don't think snipers have been ****ed over. Bringing them to the level of most other classes(if even that) is hardly ****ing them over. 

First of all, what was "brought to the level of most other classes" was not what has been outperforming the other classes to begin with.

The Krysae is still a dominating weapon.
Shotgun Infiltrators are still powerful.
Grenitrators are as well.

I didn't say they weren't powerful.

I said they were " brought to the level of most other classes (if even that)"  Many other classes are now very competitive with infillies. 

No, you missed the point.

"Snipers" were not brought to the level of most other classes.
The people who genuinely played Infiltrators as a "Sniper"(I.e. those who did not use the Krysae/Kishok/Incisor/Indra or Shotguns; but rather used guns like the Widow, Javelin, Viper, Mantis, and Raptor) took the biggest hit and are below most other classes.

Sniper rifles are just not that great damage wise. They really aren't. Even with damage mods, etc the majority of guns were not useful for Gold outside of some gimmicky builds.

I'm not really qualified to talk on the Valiant, as mine is only I at this point and I'm having conflicted success with it at this point--but it still is outperforming a bloody Widow X.

[TCGwasHERE]

nvm

Modifié par TCGwasHERE, 28 juin 2012 - 01:46 .

[Black Phantom]

audicdm wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

But seriously though, why would you choose duration, and then use a heavy sniper rifle like the Widow? Those rifles aren't even all that great, it was the stacking damage bonuses from TC that made them good. That's why you'll rarely see non-infiltrator classes using a Widow, unless it's a noob who doesn't have a clue what he's doing (novaguards, asari adepts with Widows).

Although now, I would never use a Widow, and the Javelin is out of the question.

Call me a noob but I've been carrying Gold lately with an Engineer (all) and a Widow X.  Don't knock it till you try it.  Also, most will build their class to do well with a variety of weapons vice, for example:  just heavy sniper rifles.

Sure, one could say that someone who doesn't take the rank 4 damage isn't playing to the DPS of a single shot weapon but who can argue the added utility of an 11 second cloak with a heafty + 40% damage boost + 25% sniper damage + whatever your passive damage boost is? 

I've used an Engineer sniper setup before (GE with Widow X, and operative package V) and while it was nice to be able to strip the barrier/shield from anything and kill it in one shot, I can pretty much do that with a Saber, or Paladin. Much less weight, and a headshot is still a one shot kill.

And the problem with taking duration over damage and then using a single shot rifle is that regardless of which you choose it's always going to take 2 shots to kill a shielded enemy because of the shield gate. The point of using a single shot rifle like the Widow or Javelin should be to kill bosses quickly, for which damage is obviously the better choice. Honestly, I'd want as much damage as possible with this most recent nerf, the removal of boss weak points, and the HM nerf.

The "utility" of an 11 second nerfed TC means nothing when it comes to boss killing, which should be the point of using a single shot rifle. If you're using a Javelin to hunt Centurions, you're doing it wrong.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 28 juin 2012 - 01:49 .

[Black Phantom]

TCGwasHERE wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

But seriously though, why would you choose duration, and then use a heavy sniper rifle like the Widow? Those rifles aren't even all that great, it was the stacking damage bonuses from TC that made them good. That's why you'll rarely see non-infiltrator classes using a Widow, unless it's a noob who doesn't have a clue what he's doing (novaguards, asari adepts with Widows).

Although now, I would never use a Widow, and the Javelin is out of the question.

What about the Jav?

Javelin cannot OSK anything that a Widow cannot, and even a level X Javelin will trigger a 7+ second cooldown on TC (unlike the Widow, or Black Widow) if you stay in cloak for the pitiful 5 second duration.

Basically, the Javelin needs to be lighter, or do a lot more damage. A level X rare shouldn't even be on the same playing field as a level X ultra rare.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 28 juin 2012 - 01:51 .

[holdenagincourt]

Ashen Earth wrote...

audicdm wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

But seriously though, why would you choose duration, and then use a heavy sniper rifle like the Widow? Those rifles aren't even all that great, it was the stacking damage bonuses from TC that made them good. That's why you'll rarely see non-infiltrator classes using a Widow, unless it's a noob who doesn't have a clue what he's doing (novaguards, asari adepts with Widows).

Although now, I would never use a Widow, and the Javelin is out of the question.

Call me a noob but I've been carrying Gold lately with an Engineer (all) and a Widow X.  Don't knock it till you try it.  Also, most will build their class to do well with a variety of weapons vice, for example:  just heavy sniper rifles.

Sure, one could say that someone who doesn't take the rank 4 damage isn't playing to the DPS of a single shot weapon but who can argue the added utility of an 11 second cloak with a heafty + 40% damage boost + 25% sniper damage + whatever your passive damage boost is? 

I've used an Engineer sniper setup before (GE with Widow X, and operative package V) and while it was nice to be able to strip the barrier/shield from anything and kill it in one shot, I can pretty much do that with a Saber. Much less weight, and a headshot is still a one shot kill.

Hmm, along the same lines I like using my GE with the Graal. Seems to have good synergy with chain Overload.

[Adhok42]

TehMerc wrote...
Welp, can't blame me with your previous posting history

Oooh. A Fan. Didn't know I was being stalked. I thought only the creepy AI the game developed who is badly attracted to me and the only way it can show it is by making all the enemies on the map focus on me and ignore everyone one else was familar with my posting habits.

[TehMerc]

Mostly seen you in the TC whining threads of late is all. Kinda hard to not notice outlandish posts. :3

Course, that's like 70% of the forum after the balance notes.

[Adhok42]

Eh. Gimmick to draw people in while subtly indoctrinating people with my points to sway them to my side.

[weezer1201]

The biggest problem with I have it is that rescue res missions, or even multiple res in area are too hard to pull off. People will have to actually use cover instead of relying on a sole surviving infiltrator to run around getting them back up.

[Fox-snipe]

death_for_sale wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

Y'know, I'm starting to think more and more that something is wrong with the Widow.

I had multiple Cerberus Assault Troopers survive headshots from a Widow X last night.

As in:
They got hit in the head. Their health bars went down to the very last one and they were staggered.
It took a second hit to pop their heads.

And that, mind you, was on Bronze not Gold.

To collate some data, were you using the Spare Ammunition and Extended Barrel alongside of the Sniper Rifle Gear Amp?

Loading a video I just took that examines your claims.  You are wrong on all counts as I did everything you said with no equipment mods other than the spare ammo and EB.

I am also going to test the OP's claims and if they are wrong I will call him on it as well.

This is why anecdotal evidence is flawed, because anyone can SAY anything happened a certain way.

youtu.be/X56SkAV7cPY

ntrisley is not really wrong.  The game bugs out exactly like they said.  I routinely try to headshot snipe peons when I see them spawn at the start of a wave and I often do zero damage.  Pisses me off, especially when I tried to line up a few of them for a single shot.

[Kalas Magnus]

Bioware you have changed nothing. GI krysae/claymore is still dominating the game.

[xabkish]

Ashen Earth wrote...

But seriously though, why would you choose duration, and then use a heavy sniper rifle like the Widow? Those rifles aren't even all that great, it was the stacking damage bonuses from TC that made them good. That's why you'll rarely see non-infiltrator classes using a Widow, unless it's a noob who doesn't have a clue what he's doing (novaguards, asari adepts with Widows).

Although now, I would never use a Widow, and the Javelin is out of the question.

This.

I hear your pain — my belowed but heavy BW suffered just as much And I've never really loved Valiant but it seems it's the best option now — for headshoting mooks mind you. And bosses, well. Not a single sniper rifle is as versatile and powerful as Claimore or Talon. Talon probably being the best option due to weight (at high levels of course). And I mean it — scoped Talon is kinda the best SR out there now with amazing DPS against armor Although I prefer to skip the scope and go for CQC with it.

So it's Scoped Talon for sniping (or non scoped for CQC) with huge armor DPS or Paladin (scoped or not, accuracy is high enough so the scope is personal preference) — another sniper rifle of choice due to weight again. Heavy pistols are reigning kings of Infiltrator weapons for now...

[TehMerc]

death_for_sale wrote...
Watch the video. I play an infiltrator quite a bit and other than lag induced issues, I have not seen repeated zero damage headshots. I've had single headshots do nothing when I am lagged, but not the entire match.

Still processing for meh :x

Do it nao youtube!

[Black Phantom]

Kalas321 wrote...

Bioware you have changed nothing. GI krysae/claymore is still dominating the game.

I routinely outscore Krysae infiltrators with a Turian sentinel using a Wraith.

Most of the people I see using Kryase/Claymore GI's are still awful. Post-nerf, they're even worse, because they die more, and kill less. Gold PUGs are a nightmare.

[archangelV]

death_for_sale wrote...

ntrisley wrote...

Y'know, I'm starting to think more and more that something is wrong with the Widow.

I had multiple Cerberus Assault Troopers survive headshots from a Widow X last night.

As in:
They got hit in the head. Their health bars went down to the very last one and they were staggered.
It took a second hit to pop their heads.

And that, mind you, was on Bronze not Gold.

To collate some data, were you using the Spare Ammunition and Extended Barrel alongside of the Sniper Rifle Gear Amp?

Loading a video I just took that examines your claims.  You are wrong on all counts as I did everything you said with no equipment mods other than the spare ammo and EB.

I am also going to test the OP's claims and if they are wrong I will call him on it as well.

This is why anecdotal evidence is flawed, because anyone can SAY anything happened a certain way.

youtu.be/X56SkAV7cPY

Im not sure about the last one I just know used up all my clips. The first two I'm certain widow X, lvl 3 amp and pierceMod V and exBarrel V. SI with SO set to 15% wepon damage bonus.

[audicdm]

Ashen Earth wrote...

I've used an Engineer sniper setup before (GE with Widow X, and operative package V) and while it was nice to be able to strip the barrier/shield from anything and kill it in one shot, I can pretty much do that with a Saber, or Paladin. Much less weight, and a headshot is still a one shot kill.

And the problem with taking duration over damage and then using a single shot rifle is that regardless of which you choose it's always going to take 2 shots to kill a shielded enemy because of the shield gate. The point of using a single shot rifle like the Widow or Javelin should be to kill bosses quickly, for which damage is obviously the better choice. Honestly, I'd want as much damage as possible with this most recent nerf, the removal of boss weak points, and the HM nerf.

The "utility" of an 11 second nerfed TC means nothing when it comes to boss killing, which should be the point of using a single shot rifle. If you're using a Javelin to hunt Centurions, you're doing it wrong.

I'm saying that taking duration still gives 1.4 (base cloak damage) * 1.25 (addl sniper damage) = 1.75 damage + passive damage which is much more than any Engineer build that is still completely Gold viable for mobs and bosses without that damage boost.  In other words:  That addl 40% damage boost (vice duration) for rank 4 is not critical to mission success or boss killing.  Therefore, players should choose whatever complements their individual gaming style the best (whether damage or duration).    

..oh and I'm definitely not saying that I have found the most efficient use of the Widow on an Engineer class, haha!

[Kalas Magnus]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Kalas321 wrote...

Bioware you have changed nothing. GI krysae/claymore is still dominating the game.

I routinely outscore Krysae infiltrators with a Turian sentinel using a Wraith.

Most of the people I see using Kryase/Claymore GI's are still awful. Post-nerf, they're even worse, because they die more, and kill less. Gold PUGs are a nightmare.

So? Randoms have always been bad.

Im sure you could go in there with a quarian engineer and still finish with top score. I meant it is still the strongest setup.

[Black Phantom]

audicdm wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

I've used an Engineer sniper setup before (GE with Widow X, and operative package V) and while it was nice to be able to strip the barrier/shield from anything and kill it in one shot, I can pretty much do that with a Saber, or Paladin. Much less weight, and a headshot is still a one shot kill.

And the problem with taking duration over damage and then using a single shot rifle is that regardless of which you choose it's always going to take 2 shots to kill a shielded enemy because of the shield gate. The point of using a single shot rifle like the Widow or Javelin should be to kill bosses quickly, for which damage is obviously the better choice. Honestly, I'd want as much damage as possible with this most recent nerf, the removal of boss weak points, and the HM nerf.

The "utility" of an 11 second nerfed TC means nothing when it comes to boss killing, which should be the point of using a single shot rifle. If you're using a Javelin to hunt Centurions, you're doing it wrong.

I'm saying that taking duration still gives 1.4 (base cloak damage) * 1.25 (addl sniper damage) = 1.75 damage + passive damage which is much more than any Engineer build that is still completely Gold viable for mobs and bosses without that damage boost.

The difference between a Human/Salarian/Geth Engineer, and a non-Salarian Infiltrator is that an Engineer can use Overload, or Energy Drain to immediately remove shields/stagger the enemy, and then one shot kill. On most enemies, a cloaked infiltrator using a Widow, or Javelin will overkill it by a large margin, but it will still take 2 shots if it has shields. The only time the rank 4 damage bonus really makes a difference, is when you're shooting something that you wouldn't OHK anyway, or something without shields. (so bosses) Most engineers could kill a shielded mob faster than a non-Salarian infiltrator with a single shot rifle (which makes no sense, btw because infiltrators are supposed to be sniper specialists)

A Duration specced Javelin/Widow infiltrator can kill bosses faster than an Engineer, and will kill regular enemies just as quickly as a damage specced infiltrator, but skipping the damage portion of TC, therefore reducing your ability to kill bosses quickly and then equipping a heavy rifle that's only really useful against bosses completely defeats the purpose.

unless you're playing silver/bronze where the shield gate is not 100%

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 28 juin 2012 - 02:30 .

[Lord Rosario]

Ashen Earth wrote...

audicdm wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

I've used an Engineer sniper setup before (GE with Widow X, and operative package V) and while it was nice to be able to strip the barrier/shield from anything and kill it in one shot, I can pretty much do that with a Saber, or Paladin. Much less weight, and a headshot is still a one shot kill.

And the problem with taking duration over damage and then using a single shot rifle is that regardless of which you choose it's always going to take 2 shots to kill a shielded enemy because of the shield gate. The point of using a single shot rifle like the Widow or Javelin should be to kill bosses quickly, for which damage is obviously the better choice. Honestly, I'd want as much damage as possible with this most recent nerf, the removal of boss weak points, and the HM nerf.

The "utility" of an 11 second nerfed TC means nothing when it comes to boss killing, which should be the point of using a single shot rifle. If you're using a Javelin to hunt Centurions, you're doing it wrong.

I'm saying that taking duration still gives 1.4 (base cloak damage) * 1.25 (addl sniper damage) = 1.75 damage + passive damage which is much more than any Engineer build that is still completely Gold viable for mobs and bosses without that damage boost.

The difference between a Human/Salarian/Geth Engineer, and a non-Salarian Infiltrator is that an Engineer can use Overload, or Energy Drain to immediately remove shields/stagger the enemy, and then one shot kill. On most enemies, a cloaked infiltrator using a Widow, or Javelin will overkill it by a large margin, but it will still take 2 shots if it has shields. The only time the rank 4 damage bonus really makes a difference, is when you're shooting something that you wouldn't OHK anyway, or something without shields. (so bosses) Most engineers could kill a shielded mob faster than a non-Salarian infiltrator with a single shot rifle (which makes no sense, btw because infiltrators are supposed to be sniper specialists)

A Duration specced Javelin/Widow infiltrator can kill bosses faster than an Engineer, and will kill regular enemies just as quickly as a damage specced infiltrator, but skipping the damage portion of TC, therefore reducing your ability to kill bosses quickly and then equipping a heavy rifle that's only really useful against bosses completely defeats the purpose.

unless you're playing silver/bronze where the shield gate is not 100%

You forgot the Geth Infiltrator and the Quarian male.. One can use proxy mine to quickly strip shields [on more than one enemy also debuffing them] and the other can chuck a grenade to drop a group's shields. So I suppose only human infiltrators and quarian female infiltrators fit your bill.

Also, did you know that the infiltrator's damage bonus includes any power too?

[holdenagincourt]

^ FQI can use Sabotage backfire to strip shields from organic enemies.

[Lord Rosario]

holdenagincourt wrote...

^ FQI can use Sabotage backfire to strip shields from organic enemies.

This is true. And it could be argued that sticky grenades on human infiltratrors could do it too.