138 réponses à ce sujet

[Necrotron]

Mr. Heavy wrote...

Not sure why the hostility to OP. He just posted some facts. Good info on the practical effects of the nerf.

Indeed.  An actually nicely informative list.

[ValorOfArms777]

time for Widow/Jav and other gun boosts to moderately increase their worth of weight eh? ..why the hell is the Jav still so top heavy if it's got less ammo....

[Ashen One]

Lord Rosario wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Immortal Strife wrote...

Some of the info on this thread is dead wrong.

First, a Turian Sentinal can strip the full shields off of all enemies except bosses and Phatoms by speccing fully into single target damage, shield damage and power damage.

Second, the Salarian Infiltrator is more then capable in carrying a widow, just energy drain and fire-btw the widow can fit 2 shots in the cloak damage window by reload Cancelling.

Third, I admit I don't use the GI with my Javelin as often as I used to (pre nerf to TC & HM) but I found him to be more then capable by using the Javelin & PM to wipe out shielded foes, simply TC->PM->jav->TC->PM. 

My point was not that the Geth Infiltrator with a Javelin or Widow is not capable of killing shielded enemies, but that a Geth Engineer with a Widow could do it a lot easier, which is backwards considering the Infiltrator is the sniper specialist. Even if you use PM it will still take 2 shots, because the PM will leave some shields, which means none of the damage from the Javelin would bleed over.

You mean now Engineers actually have better tech than infiltrators? Holycrapwhataconcept. That simply means that the rolls are now fitting back into their rightful places.

Infiltrators are also a tech class.

Engineers have always been better tech specialists than infiltrators because the majority of them have a an anti shield/barrier power, and an anti armor power, unlike the infiltrator.

But if you seriously don't see anything wrong with a GE being able to drop the majority of enemies with a sniper rifle faster than his Infiltrator "sniper specialist" counterpart, then Idk what to say.

Modifié par Ashen Earth, 28 juin 2012 - 08:17 .

[Lord Rosario]

Ashen Earth wrote...



Infiltrators are also a tech class.

Engineers have always been better tech specialists than infiltrators because the majority of them have a an anti shield/barrier power, and an anti armor power, unlike the infiltrator.

But if you seriously don't see anything wrong with a GE being able to drop the majority of enemies with a sniper rifle faster than his Infiltrator "sniper specialist" counterpart, then Idk what to say.

If the engineer was able to drop a majority of enemies with just the sniper rifle, then sure, that might be a problem. But that just isn't the case. It's the Engineer using it's tech to strip shields then the one shot sniper to do the rest. Besides that, the infiltrators are far better with snipers with more than one shot in them than an engineer is, and also doesn't suffer nearly as much from the wieght of the gun as the engineer does. That is where the infiltrator is to excel. Why have all that damage if ou are just going to pick a sniper that already does a ton of damage? Might as well go for the 3 shot sniper that does a little less and more than make up for it with the TC ability.

[Poison_Berrie]

archangelV wrote...

1 A you can't one shot a guadian with a lvl 3 amp on a widow unless it's through the mailslot. 

Only on a Widow I and II. Once you hit III, the Amp will add enough for bodyshot kills.

[Rodia Driftwood]

If I had a Javelin..

[Ashen One]

Lord Rosario wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...



Infiltrators are also a tech class.

Engineers have always been better tech specialists than infiltrators because the majority of them have a an anti shield/barrier power, and an anti armor power, unlike the infiltrator.

But if you seriously don't see anything wrong with a GE being able to drop the majority of enemies with a sniper rifle faster than his Infiltrator "sniper specialist" counterpart, then Idk what to say.

If the engineer was able to drop a majority of enemies with just the sniper rifle, then sure, that might be a problem. But that just isn't the case. It's the Engineer using it's tech to strip shields then the one shot sniper to do the rest.

So you don't find anything wrong with the fact that the Engineer skillset synergizes better with heavy single shot sniper rifles than the sniper class skillset in most cases?

Lord Rosario wrote...
Besides that, the infiltrators are far better with snipers with more than one shot in them than an engineer is, and also doesn't suffer nearly as much from the wieght of the gun as the engineer does. That is where the infiltrator is to excel.

I believe the infiltrator is to excel with all sniper rifles, as that is what was intended to define the class.

Lord Rosario wrote...
Why have all that damage if ou are just going to pick a sniper that
already does a ton of damage? Might as well go for the 3 shot sniper
that does a little less and more than make up for it with the TC
ability.

When I initially read that, I was all like "this guy can't be serious".

But then I looked down at your signature, and it all made sense.

[Poison_Berrie]

Fox-snipe wrote...

ntrisley is not really wrong. The game bugs out exactly like they said. I routinely try to headshot snipe peons when I see them spawn at the start of a wave and I often do zero damage. Pisses me off, especially when I tried to line up a few of them for a single shot.

It's got to do with your position and the angle your enemy is when attacking.
I sometimes get zero damage on certain places when the angle is more than 180. Relocating will fix this.

[Lord Rosario]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...



Infiltrators are also a tech class.

Engineers have always been better tech specialists than infiltrators because the majority of them have a an anti shield/barrier power, and an anti armor power, unlike the infiltrator.

But if you seriously don't see anything wrong with a GE being able to drop the majority of enemies with a sniper rifle faster than his Infiltrator "sniper specialist" counterpart, then Idk what to say.

If the engineer was able to drop a majority of enemies with just the sniper rifle, then sure, that might be a problem. But that just isn't the case. It's the Engineer using it's tech to strip shields then the one shot sniper to do the rest.

So you don't find anything wrong with the fact that the Engineer skillset synergizes better with heavy single shot sniper rifles than the sniper class skillset in most cases?

Lord Rosario wrote...
Besides that, the infiltrators are far better with snipers with more than one shot in them than an engineer is, and also doesn't suffer nearly as much from the wieght of the gun as the engineer does. That is where the infiltrator is to excel.

I believe the infiltrator is to excel with all sniper rifles, as that is what was intended to define the class.

Lord Rosario wrote...
Why have all that damage if ou are just going to pick a sniper that
already does a ton of damage? Might as well go for the 3 shot sniper
that does a little less and more than make up for it with the TC
ability.

When I initially read that, I was all like "this guy can't be serious".

But then I looked down at your signature, and it all made sense.

All your points are assuming that your way of playing is the best way of playing for everyone. Sure, wih an engineer and a single shot gun you can take out a regular shielded target faster because it uses a shield drain/overload ability then a heavy sniper. Infiltrator is still far better with using the sniper alone, not having to worry about it's wieghtand their cooldowns nearly as much. The infiltrator will also be better for those bosses and generally better for smaller enemies. Also, if they aren't using that single shot sniper, the infiltrator will far out perform the engineer that is trying to heft around that heavy javelin.

All your points really go out the window when someone decides to use something besides a single shot, bolt action, sniper rifle. You might find it silly, but Most find the valiant, black widow, or krysae far superior to single shot snipers on their infiltrators. Personally, I like having an indra and a claymore. ditches that shieldgate problem entirely.

All comes down to your  playstyle. You like it? Great. If you really think that engineers should not be doing what they are doing with single shot snipers when compared to infiltrators and you think you have a valid point, maybe you should bring it up with Bioware in your own thread to remove shieldgate or lessen it in some form or another.

Also, I hardly see what my signiture had to do with that point.. With the point I was making damage would be far better than duration. The signiture is for that gang of people that say "We can't do objectives or help downed team mates anymore because of the nerf." Signiture is a quick way to tell them that they can still be support if that's what they like to do.

Rant is done, this convorsation is done, I don't need a reply because it will still come down to only your oppinion of how things should work and that is really up to you whether it is right or wrong. Don't need to be telling me all about it anymore.

[billy the squid]

Ashen Earth wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...
Why have all that damage if ou are just going to pick a sniper that
already does a ton of damage? Might as well go for the 3 shot sniper
that does a little less and more than make up for it with the TC
ability.

When I initially read that, I was all like "this guy can't be serious".

But then I looked down at your signature, and it all made sense.

Hold on, did he mean the Black Widow? In which case, the shield gating mechanics on Gold make it very useful, although I'd still spec any infiltrator for pure SR damage dealing and forgo duration. 5 seconds is easily long enough for me to take advantage of the damage spike. Duration, meh, not concerning myself.

Other SRs I don't look beyond the Widow or Javelin. With reload cancelling and spare ammo capacity you still have a relatively high rate of fire, and enough spare capacity to put a lot of shots down range. Widow mrk X with spare ammo mrk V gives me 30 odd spare rounds, easily enough when you consider the damage for each shot to outclass any other rifle bar the two I already mentioned.

And engineers can be effective with heavy rifles, but on Gold I don't believe they can strip shields entirely on some enemies, it's been a while since I ran an engineeer with overload, so I could be wrong. Silver. An Infiltrator will usually be more efficient as even with 75% shield gate the single shot heavy SRs still kill in a single shot. Gold holds them back due to the damage being blocked, but it can be mitigated by reload cancelling to cut Javelin and reload times by over half, 0.5 secs instead of 1.5 secs I think. Or teaming up with an engineer who spams overload and the Sniper takes the shots.

Modifié par billy the squid, 28 juin 2012 - 09:35 .

[Megachaz]

archangelV wrote...

A list of things you can no longer do if you choose duration and bonus power.

1 A you can't one shot a guadian with a lvl 3 amp on a widow unless it's through the mailslot.

2 You can't heavy melee an assault trooper on gold. So the melee inflitator is broken. Buff?

3 An altas takes about 12 shots with a widow plus 12 ED while cloaked.

1) That doesn't sound right... I was one shotting with a BW IV.  Two shotting with a Carni.  Headshots, of course, but not through the mail slot.

2) Haven't tried, but I didn't think they changed anything to the melee bonus?

[mrwizeguy]

Lord Rosario wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...

Lord Rosario wrote...

Ashen Earth wrote...



Infiltrators are also a tech class.

Engineers have always been better tech specialists than infiltrators because the majority of them have a an anti shield/barrier power, and an anti armor power, unlike the infiltrator.

But if you seriously don't see anything wrong with a GE being able to drop the majority of enemies with a sniper rifle faster than his Infiltrator "sniper specialist" counterpart, then Idk what to say.

If the engineer was able to drop a majority of enemies with just the sniper rifle, then sure, that might be a problem. But that just isn't the case. It's the Engineer using it's tech to strip shields then the one shot sniper to do the rest.

So you don't find anything wrong with the fact that the Engineer skillset synergizes better with heavy single shot sniper rifles than the sniper class skillset in most cases?

Lord Rosario wrote...
Besides that, the infiltrators are far better with snipers with more than one shot in them than an engineer is, and also doesn't suffer nearly as much from the wieght of the gun as the engineer does. That is where the infiltrator is to excel.

I believe the infiltrator is to excel with all sniper rifles, as that is what was intended to define the class.

Lord Rosario wrote...
Why have all that damage if ou are just going to pick a sniper that
already does a ton of damage? Might as well go for the 3 shot sniper
that does a little less and more than make up for it with the TC
ability.

When I initially read that, I was all like "this guy can't be serious".

But then I looked down at your signature, and it all made sense.

All your points are assuming that your way of playing is the best way of playing for everyone. Sure, wih an engineer and a single shot gun you can take out a regular shielded target faster because it uses a shield drain/overload ability then a heavy sniper. Infiltrator is still far better with using the sniper alone, not having to worry about it's wieghtand their cooldowns nearly as much. The infiltrator will also be better for those bosses and generally better for smaller enemies. Also, if they aren't using that single shot sniper, the infiltrator will far out perform the engineer that is trying to heft around that heavy javelin.

All your points really go out the window when someone decides to use something besides a single shot, bolt action, sniper rifle. You might find it silly, but Most find the valiant, black widow, or krysae far superior to single shot snipers on their infiltrators. Personally, I like having an indra and a claymore. ditches that shieldgate problem entirely.

All comes down to your  playstyle. You like it? Great. If you really think that engineers should not be doing what they are doing with single shot snipers when compared to infiltrators and you think you have a valid point, maybe you should bring it up with Bioware in your own thread to remove shieldgate or lessen it in some form or another.

Also, I hardly see what my signiture had to do with that point.. With the point I was making damage would be far better than duration. The signiture is for that gang of people that say "We can't do objectives or help downed team mates anymore because of the nerf." Signiture is a quick way to tell them that they can still be support if that's what they like to do.

Rant is done, this convorsation is done, I don't need a reply because it will still come down to only your oppinion of how things should work and that is really up to you whether it is right or wrong. Don't need to be telling me all about it anymore.

THIS I CAN NOT STAND ANY MORE!!

Lord Rosario go back to the noobland you belong .

You dont even have weapon mods maxed up , NOT to mantion the UR you dare to comment on that you dont even have.How can you comment on something you DONT have and tried. Dude did u even bother to take a look at Ashen Earth's profile? you play with the indra because you DONT have anything else to play with DUH GTFO

Ashen you are right man , i support you on the engnr

you people ruin the TRUE gamers community , stupidity mixed with ignorance . i made up a new class for you its called the noobtards.

ps: sorry gyus but i am in rage because i play 3 months this game everyday with 99% success on gold and i only have a BW9 and when i am about to max it i get a 25% nerf .I play all classes but the BW was my #1 motive and now it doesnt feel i m carring an UR i spend those months investing in gameplay and every jealous or wannabe comes here and has a right to comment on things he dosent have a clue on get me outraged

[Poison_Berrie]

@mrwizeguy:

BW 9: 628.32

1.25 SR bonus
1 + 0.8 + 0.2 (Passive) + 0.25 (mod) = 2.25 (2.70 with AMP and Gear)
1.40 SR Bonus
1 + 0.9 + 0.2 + 0.25 = 2.35 (2.80 with AMP and Gear)

628.32 * 2.25 * 1.25 = 1767.15
628.32 * 2.35 * 1.40 = 2067.17

Without headshots:
General mooks are harder to bring down now. You need 2 to 4 bodyshots to kill them, where before you needed 2 to 3. On a Banshee you now need 16 shot vs 14 before

628.32 * 2.70 * 1.25 = 2120.58
628.32 * 2.80 * 1.40 = 2463.01

So without headshots:
Before you only needed three shots on a Geth Pyro, now you also need three shots on a Phantom and a Geth Hunter. Banshees went from 12 to 13 shots.

Conclusion:
With Gear the difference in killing power is small, but without there's definitely some extra time needed, especially on standard enemies that require four shots and thus a reload (Geth Hunter, Pyro and Cerberus Turret). 
That said this has empowered single shot snipers in terms of their power against mooks on Gold.

Modifié par Poison_Berrie, 28 juin 2012 - 12:07 .

[Ramsutin]

Poison_Berrie wrote...



So without headshots:
Before you only needed three shots on a Geth Pyro, now you also need three shots on a Phantom and a Geth Hunter. Banshees went from 12 to 13 shots.

Yeah, but no good sniper would take bodyshots on Pyros when you can kill them with one shot. At least with Javelin. Just pointing that out

[ask83]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

@mrwizeguy:

BW 9: 628.32

1.25 SR bonus
1 + 0.8 + 0.2 (Passive) + 0.25 (mod) = 2.25 (2.70 with AMP and Gear)
1.40 SR Bonus
1 + 0.9 + 0.2 + 0.25 = 2.35 (2.80 with AMP and Gear)

628.32 * 2.25 * 1.25 = 1767.15
628.32 * 2.35 * 1.40 = 2067.17

Without headshots:
General mooks are harder to bring down now. You need 2 to 4 bodyshots to kill them, where before you needed 2 to 3. On a Banshee you now need 16 shot vs 14 before

628.32 * 2.70 * 1.25 = 2120.58
628.32 * 2.80 * 1.40 = 2463.01

So without headshots:
Before you only needed three shots on a Geth Pyro, now you also need three shots on a Phantom and a Geth Hunter. Banshees went from 12 to 13 shots.

Conclusion:
With Gear the difference in killing power is small, but without there's definitely some extra time needed, especially on standard enemies that require four shots and thus a reload (Geth Hunter, Pyro and Cerberus Turret). 
That said this has empowered single shot snipers in terms of their power against mooks on Gold.

Good information.  I can't locate the post, but for ammo damage bonuses, are they additive or completely separate?  IIRC, ammo bonus damage is actually applied separately but just wanted to confirm.  With new level IV ammo types, it could make up some of the difference.

[mrwizeguy]

Ramsutin wrote...

Poison_Berrie wrote...



So without headshots:
Before you only needed three shots on a Geth Pyro, now you also need three shots on a Phantom and a Geth Hunter. Banshees went from 12 to 13 shots.

Yeah, but no good sniper would take bodyshots on Pyros when you can kill them with one shot. At least with Javelin. Just pointing that out

Realy? We got another noobtard , where is that on bronge ? GTFO

[mrwizeguy]

Poison_Berrie wrote...

@mrwizeguy:

BW 9: 628.32

1.25 SR bonus
1 + 0.8 + 0.2 (Passive) + 0.25 (mod) = 2.25 (2.70 with AMP and Gear)
1.40 SR Bonus
1 + 0.9 + 0.2 + 0.25 = 2.35 (2.80 with AMP and Gear)

628.32 * 2.25 * 1.25 = 1767.15
628.32 * 2.35 * 1.40 = 2067.17

Without headshots:
General mooks are harder to bring down now. You need 2 to 4 bodyshots to kill them, where before you needed 2 to 3. On a Banshee you now need 16 shot vs 14 before

628.32 * 2.70 * 1.25 = 2120.58
628.32 * 2.80 * 1.40 = 2463.01

So without headshots:
Before you only needed three shots on a Geth Pyro, now you also need three shots on a Phantom and a Geth Hunter. Banshees went from 12 to 13 shots.

Conclusion:
With Gear the difference in killing power is small, but without there's definitely some extra time needed, especially on standard enemies that require four shots and thus a reload (Geth Hunter, Pyro and Cerberus Turret). 
That said this has empowered single shot snipers in terms of their power against mooks on Gold.

poison i apreciate an inteligent post but i dont see why you post this?
is it supposed to cheer me up for having 3 months gameplay invested 25% nerfed on an UR?UNACCEPTABLE

[mrcanada]

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...

Adhok42 wrote...

Mysterious Stranger 0.0 wrote...
I'm not feeling "it" 

And i'm still seeing the same amount of carnage. 

And i don't think snipers have been ****ed over. Bringing them to the level of most other classes(if even that) is hardly ****ing them over. 

Settling for less death per shot. It's a sad day when people do that.

Handed most INF their butts pre patch anyway, just depended on the map really.  I never use them, but this is too much IMO.

I think it's sadder when ORPGs throw balance out the window. And when gold is dominated by 1 class out of 6 population wise. 

I don't use INF, never have, but to me it's too much.  INF domination was map specific anyway.

Modifié par mrcanada, 28 juin 2012 - 01:41 .

[Hretha]

Cyonan wrote...

ntrisley wrote...
The problem is that a Widow was not killing Guardians through their shields.

While the shooter was cloaked.

There is nothing making that acceptable.

A Widow X will, unless you have a piercing mod.

Perhaps they could nerf Guardians with a larger mail slot?

[Nl55]

Hits not always register correctly .
Specially for high damage per projectile \\ low rate of fire weapons.

[Grammaton Dryad]

If you want damage, pick the damage trees. Jeez, it's not that complicated. only a 10% difference for everything besides the sniper rifles...it can't nerf stuff THAT bad.

As for those who feel that an infiltrator's tech should surpass an engineer? Have you been playing the series for a while? WTF. I'll use the simpliest examples that goes back all the way to ME1

Soldier = 2 parts Combat
Vanguard = 1 part combat, 1 part biotics
Infiltrator = 1 partcombat, 1 part tech
Engineer = 2 parts tech
Adept = 2 parts biotics
Sentinel = 1 part tech, 1 part biotic



Seriously, the "nerf" only really did two things:
1. force infiltrators to build either for objectives/support/stealth or for damage dealing
2. the damage output slightly lessened.

It's not a great thing, but it's more-so a good thing than a bad thing. Infiltrators simply become less of a go-to class and standout less amongst the other 5 classes (they're not worse than those 5 either), which is what BW wanted. Balance between the classes. I wasn't thrilled with the change, but it hardly broke the class; it's still a very powerful/fun class.

[Poison_Berrie]

ask83 wrote...

Good information.  I can't locate the post, but for ammo damage bonuses, are they additive or completely separate?  IIRC, ammo bonus damage is actually applied separately but just wanted to confirm.  With new level IV ammo types, it could make up some of the difference.

Yeah. I believe ammo powers were added based on base weapon damage, though I don't know whether SR-bonus figures into that or not. Will have to scurry for that thread again.

Base Damage * Ammo Power Factor = Damage added to your total damage

mrwizeguy wrote...

poison i apreciate an inteligent post but i dont see why you post this?
is it supposed to cheer me up for having 3 months gameplay invested 25% nerfed on an UR?UNACCEPTABLE

Just showing you that the damage isn't nearly as bad to rage over it the way you do.
That Ultra-Rare weapon still does the same damage it did before and still does a lot more damage on an Infiltrator. That they brought the Infiltrators powers down so that single shot snipers aren't so inferior on most enemeies compared to the multi-shots isn't the end of your prowess.

In short your Black Widow IX still does hella lot of damage.

Modifié par Poison_Berrie, 28 juin 2012 - 02:54 .

[Ramsutin]

mrwizeguy wrote...

Ramsutin wrote...

Poison_Berrie wrote...



So without headshots:
Before you only needed three shots on a Geth Pyro, now you also need three shots on a Phantom and a Geth Hunter. Banshees went from 12 to 13 shots.

Yeah, but no good sniper would take bodyshots on Pyros when you can kill them with one shot. At least with Javelin. Just pointing that out

Realy? We got another noobtard , where is that on bronge ? GTFO

On gold actually. If you hit them in the space between the head and tank. And please, learn to spell before starting an internet argument. Try it.

[Ramsutin]

mrwizeguy wrote...

THIS I CAN NOT STAND ANY MORE!!

Lord Rosario go back to the noobland you belong .

You dont even have weapon mods maxed up , NOT to mantion the UR you dare to comment on that you dont even have.How can you comment on something you DONT have and tried. Dude did u even bother to take a look at Ashen Earth's profile? you play with the indra because you DONT have anything else to play with DUH GTFO

Ashen you are right man , i support you on the engnr

you people ruin the TRUE gamers community , stupidity mixed with ignorance . i made up a new class for you its called the noobtards.

ps: sorry gyus but i am in rage because i play 3 months this game everyday with 99% success on gold and i only have a BW9 and when i am about to max it i get a 25% nerf .I play all classes but the BW was my #1 motive and now it doesnt feel i m carring an UR i spend those months investing in gameplay and every jealous or wannabe comes here and has a right to comment on things he dosent have a clue on get me outraged

Maybe you should try something called Real Life? It is a game, don't get too attached. 15% nerf in damage that can be reduced when using maxed gear, level IV ammo and other stuff. I love this game but dude, seriously...