48 réponses à ce sujet

[ThatDancingTurian]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Guys, I'm not talking about the art reason, or symbolic reason. I mean, why did the people who designed the Crucible, or the people who redesigned it, made it a "attempt to kill user" machine? I'm not making this thread for "I'm bitter, and didn't get a happy ending" as the reason.

They wouldn't have. Just like they wouldn't have built it capable of fundamentally altering all life. It's a huge, giant, seeping plot hole. It makes no sense. This is why the endings still fail.

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 28 juin 2012 - 03:20 .

[TMA LIVE]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Guys, I'm not talking about the art reason, or symbolic reason. I mean, why did the people who designed the Crucible, or the people who redesigned it, made it a "attempt to kill user" machine? I'm not making this thread for "I'm bitter, and didn't get a happy ending" as the reason.

They wouldn't have. Just like they wouldn't have built it capable of fundamentally altering all life. It's a huge, giant, seeping plot hole. It makes no sense. This is why the endings still fail.

No, I can understand why it does what it does (besides the kill Shepard part). Whoever made it might've been trying to find a solution to the reasons the Reapers gave for why they're doing what they're doing, because they believed it. Maybe different races had different ideas on how to stop the Reapers (Destroy all robots, Control them, become like them while remaining human). etc. There's reasonable possibilities.

[ThatDancingTurian]

TMA LIVE wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Guys, I'm not talking about the art reason, or symbolic reason. I mean, why did the people who designed the Crucible, or the people who redesigned it, made it a "attempt to kill user" machine? I'm not making this thread for "I'm bitter, and didn't get a happy ending" as the reason.

They wouldn't have. Just like they wouldn't have built it capable of fundamentally altering all life. It's a huge, giant, seeping plot hole. It makes no sense. This is why the endings still fail.

No, I can understand why it does what it does (besides the kill Shepard part). Whoever made it might've been trying to find a solution to the reasons the Reapers gave for why they're doing what they're doing, because they believed it. Maybe different races had different ideas on how to stop the Reapers (Destroy all robots, Control them, become like them while remaining human). etc. There's reasonable possibilities.

So beings not advanced enough to take out the Reapers are still advanced enough to basically be gods with the knowledge of how to alter the very essence of life. That makes no sense.

[Subject9x]

oh yes, the consoles. Love it how the writers didn't want something 'video gamey' but have no problem inventing a contrived set out of nowhere for the sake of the 'writing.' I argued the same thing months ago, the citadel console makes 0 sense in-universe, and is so head-scratchingly jarring, that it'll break your suspension of disbelief (if by this point in the game it hasn't broken already)

[TMA LIVE]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

Guys, I'm not talking about the art reason, or symbolic reason. I mean, why did the people who designed the Crucible, or the people who redesigned it, made it a "attempt to kill user" machine? I'm not making this thread for "I'm bitter, and didn't get a happy ending" as the reason.

They wouldn't have. Just like they wouldn't have built it capable of fundamentally altering all life. It's a huge, giant, seeping plot hole. It makes no sense. This is why the endings still fail.

No, I can understand why it does what it does (besides the kill Shepard part). Whoever made it might've been trying to find a solution to the reasons the Reapers gave for why they're doing what they're doing, because they believed it. Maybe different races had different ideas on how to stop the Reapers (Destroy all robots, Control them, become like them while remaining human). etc. There's reasonable possibilities.

So beings not advanced enough to take out the Reapers are still advanced enough to basically be gods with the knowledge of how to alter the very essence of life. That makes no sense.

The Reapers always had the ability to turn things into husks with Energy, as Evolution shows. Is it that surprising someone might've taken their designs, and improved upon it? Or the Reapers took it from them, but couldn't make it work? After all, I don't take the Star Kid as a real thinker, inventor, and creator, based on the logic it gives.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 28 juin 2012 - 03:39 .

[ThatDancingTurian]

TMA LIVE wrote...

The Reapers always had the ability to turn things into husks with Energy, as Evolution shows. Is it that surprising someone might've taken their designs, and improved upon it? Or the Reapers took it from them, but couldn't make it work? After all, I don't take the Star Kid as a real thinker, inventor, and creator, based on the logic it gives.

Mechanical zombies and Synthesis' magic dust are two different things. Husks are dead, mindless and take a long time to change. Synthesis happens in a split second and installs wifi without any adverse effects.

[TMA LIVE]

Aris Ravenstar wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

The Reapers always had the ability to turn things into husks with Energy, as Evolution shows. Is it that surprising someone might've taken their designs, and improved upon it? Or the Reapers took it from them, but couldn't make it work? After all, I don't take the Star Kid as a real thinker, inventor, and creator, based on the logic it gives.

Mechanical zombies and Synthesis' magic dust are two different things. Husks are dead, mindless and take a long time to change. Synthesis happens in a split second and installs wifi without any adverse effects.

TIM was not a Husk. And he was effect by the Evolution energy. That's where his glowing eyes came from.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 28 juin 2012 - 03:51 .

[EnvyTB075]

Godlysnack wrote...

MattFini wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

? Best Destroy doesn't kill him

It is odd that the StarChild tells you you'll die in Destroy. Does he still in EC? I can't remember now.

Shepard still has the breath scene.. but do you honestly expect shepard to live through all those explosions and rubble falling on him?? he's probably near dead anyway with everyone so far away they won't be able to rescue him because Hackett wanted people to fly away to a safe place to celebrate their victory

And this is part of the problem with the EC. Sure it "clarifies" some things, but leaves a chunk out and even creates some new issues.

[Allan Schumacher]

TMA LIVE wrote...

I have my own theory, but for the heck of it, I want to know, why do you think all the choices involve killing or trying to kill Commander Shepard?

Edit: I'm not talking about the symbolic reason behind it. I'm talking about why the dudes who made the Crucible made it to kill, or try to kill, whoever tried to make A, B, C choice? The lore reason.

If we're keeping strictly in game terms:

I think the reason that Shepard dies in the Destroy ending is mostly just coincidence.  Shepard is part machine now himself and the crucible's beam is indiscriminate.  Though evidently he can survive with high EMS, so the human aspect obviously still plays a large role.

For Control, Shepard must become noncorporeal in order to essentially become the Reaper Collective.  Given he now appears to be the collection of all Reapers, you could probably argue that he's replaced the Catalyst.

Synthesis is a bit trickier.  Solutions like this, while they can be interesting, I think have a fundamental characteristic about them (transcendence) that makes it more difficult to truly understand.  Perhaps the fusion of synthetic and inorganic life requires the breakdown of an organic lifeform into the synthetic process in order to occur?  I admit that sounds weak though haha.

[TMA LIVE]

I just don't think anyone designing a weapon or option to destroy the Reapers to want to shoot something that explodes in the person's face as the on button. Or jump to his death into a beam. Or require his entire body being destroyed to create an AI.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 28 juin 2012 - 04:07 .

[AngryFrozenWater]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...

I have my own theory, but for the heck of it, I want to know, why do you think all the choices involve killing or trying to kill Commander Shepard?

Edit: I'm not talking about the symbolic reason behind it. I'm talking about why the dudes who made the Crucible made it to kill, or try to kill, whoever tried to make A, B, C choice? The lore reason.

If we're keeping strictly in game terms:

I think the reason that Shepard dies in the Destroy ending is mostly just coincidence.  Shepard is part machine now himself and the crucible's beam is indiscriminate.  Though evidently he can survive with high EMS, so the human aspect obviously still plays a large role.

For Control, Shepard must become noncorporeal in order to essentially become the Reaper Collective.  Given he now appears to be the collection of all Reapers, you could probably argue that he's replaced the Catalyst.

Synthesis is a bit trickier.  Solutions like this, while they can be interesting, I think have a fundamental characteristic about them (transcendence) that makes it more difficult to truly understand.  Perhaps the fusion of synthetic and inorganic life requires the breakdown of an organic lifeform into the synthetic process in order to occur?  I admit that sounds weak though haha.

Cloning Shepard wouldn't be that hard for Star Child and use that, would it? I mean, it can access all the reapers' knowledge.

To me Shepard dies as a martyr of a hypothetical cause. There was no proof of any synthetic threat in the game. That threat was dreamed up after the dark energy script leaked on the internet. It caused lots of contradictions. The team forgot to check for plotholes. That makes it so hard to crasp.

Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 28 juin 2012 - 04:17 .

[sylnnn]

TMA LIVE wrote...
TIM was not a Husk. And he was effect by the Evolution energy. That's where his glowing eyes came from.

Pretty sure TIM had cybernetic eyes before ever being indoctrinated.

[Jadebaby]

because Bioware don't care about Shepard anymore. The refusal ending was the middle finger on the left hand, and they treatment of Shepard was the middle finger on the right hand.

Not double nice.

[Jadebaby]

sylnnn wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
TIM was not a Husk. And he was effect by the Evolution energy. That's where his glowing eyes came from.

Pretty sure TIM had cybernetic eyes before ever being indoctrinated.

He did not, it was the Arca Monolith that gave him said eyes.

[silentassassin264]

Jade8aby88 wrote...

sylnnn wrote...

TMA LIVE wrote...
TIM was not a Husk. And he was effect by the Evolution energy. That's where his glowing eyes came from.

Pretty sure TIM had cybernetic eyes before ever being indoctrinated.

He did not, it was the Arca Monolith that gave him said eyes.

And the Arca Monolith did not indoctrinate him.

[Captain_Obvious]

I don't understand why they spent all of this time and money building a super weapon and had no idea how to even use it until the last five minutes. It's like space MacGyver or something.

[ThatDancingTurian]

Captain_Obvious wrote...

I don't understand why they spent all of this time and money building a super weapon and had no idea how to even use it until the last five minutes. It's like space MacGyver or something.

Seriously, what was Shepard even going up there to do? Shouldn't the end have been an escort quest to lead up a scientist that worked on the project and has even the slightest idea how this thing works?

Modifié par Aris Ravenstar, 28 juin 2012 - 04:29 .

[Tiletron]

I think the reality was no matter whether Shepard survived ME3 or not, Bioware simply DIDN'T want the character to be the protagonist in the next game.  The company also practically said as much before the Extended Cut DLC was even released.

As for the Synthesis ending, I suspect the position there was if you wanted to save the Geth (now a species actually capable of free will and not just a gestalt consciousness), you also had to save the Reapers as they are merely puppets; programmed to protect the cultural history of other races, not continuity of the race tiself.  It's not their fault they do what they do, but instead the result of arrogance by their predecessors to try and play god in the universe.

By the standards of many real-life philosophies as well, the ultimate evolution of organic and sythetic life is to hybridise them if "transcedence" (becoming pure energy) is not a viable option.  Otherwise extinction is the only alternative...

That's not to say I'm defending the death of Shepard in that choice - I think if you were high enough a Paragon or Renegade and had a high EMS, there should've been a way to save their life even if they didn't be the protagonist for ME4.

Modifié par Tiletron, 09 août 2013 - 10:32 .

[jontepwn]

This thread is a year old.

[Tiletron]

I know it is, but I only started playing ME3 a couple of weeks ago after finishing the other games.

[Alien Number Six]

Bringing threads back from the dead is against the rules.

[AlainSki]

Alien Number Six wrote...

Bringing threads back from the dead is against the rules.

And having the same ******* discussion every week is much better...

[LiL Reapur]

He has the Baldur's Gate 2 Bioware corp Symbol as his avatar. I thought Bioware forgot about that game, glad they didn't and the endings do make some kind of sense except for synthesis because it's

Modifié par LiL Reapur, 09 août 2013 - 02:43 .