29 réponses à ce sujet

[Kleon]

 I had strange thought pop in my head: what if Flemeth is a dragon merged with a spirit or a demon?
I myself think it is rather stupid but perhaps someone will make use of it.

For me the most likely scenerio is that Flemeth was born with soul of an old god from one of previous blights. Perhaps the "performers" of the ritual were not even aware of what might the possibly conceived baby become.

Still, whole bussiness with "preserving dragons"  that we know of from "Silent Grove" gives much to think about. 

[Face of Evil]

It's possible. Although Morrigan, Anders and Fenris have all ruled out the possibility that Flemeth is an abomination, none of them have experience with spirit-possessed dragons.

Any theory about Flemeth's true nature is plausible, really, since we know so little about her. My own theory is that she's the Lady of the Skies.

Modifié par Face of Evil, 28 juin 2012 - 05:47 .

[Auroras]

I like to think that when the original, mortal Flemeth was possessed by a "demon", she was actually possessed by an Old God. It would explain her motivations for "capturing" Urthemiel's soul, so to speak.

[DarkDragon777]

No, she isn't an Old God who was preserved using the ritual because she CREATED the ritual.

[wsandista]

Flemeth is an insane old lady.

[TEWR]

DarkDragon777 wrote...

No, she isn't an Old God who was preserved using the ritual because she CREATED the ritual.

I don't think it's stated anywhere that she created the ritual. It's certainly stated in-game that the OGB ritual is the reason why she sent Morrigan with the Warden, but I'm fairly certain it's never been claimed that she came up with it herself.

[EricHVela]

Flemeth has a view of the world that I cannot understand. It just seems like crazy rambling but with a purpose that isn't so random from what I've seen in the stories.

She's powerful and manipulative. She seems to show wisdom, insanity, meekness or strength as it suits her. At first, it seems random, but each method seems to accomplish something specific.

She somehow seems to know what strings to pluck when it comes to orchestrating events, almost as if she can see how seemingly unrelated events tie into each other.

Yet, none of this proves anything other than she is observant and calculating if she's not insane and just lucky.

I cannot find anything that proves she's anything other than what she seems to be to me: A woman that is a powerful mage.

In the same vein, I cannot prove that she's just a woman that is a powerful mage, either.

Her statement about never being able to decide if an event is fate or chance suggests to me that she sees them nearly the same, a kind of universal causality where nothing is random. It's still not proof that she is anything more than observant enough to affect the outcome of events through manipulating little things here and there -- ripples in a pond, butterfly effect and all that rot.

We only have her word on her own history (even by Morrigan's tales that it's only Flemeth's word). She seems to me to be manipulative enough to say what needs to be said to achieve a result, truth or not.

There's no telling IMHO.

[Blacklash93]

Everything about her goals seems to involve dragons. Also with the revelation that dragons are important to Thedas and the implication in the Silent Grove that some, most likely rare, dragons have intelligence only reinforces that her nature is strongly tied to them.

[Urzon]

Obvious answer is obvious...

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...She's a Time Lady.

[Treacherous J Slither]

Flemeth is an Old God. Or a woman with the soul of an Old God. Either that or an extremely powerful mage that has abilities unknown to most mages. Don't really know.

[Zetheria Tabris]

I've always assumed that Flemeth was an abomination possessed by the soul of an Old God, or something equally ancient.This ties to why she would want her grandchild to have an Old God's soul as well; it would help her begin the "change" she warned Hawke about, and what Morrigan speaks of in Witch Hunt.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

She's clearly the Risen Andraste.

[test for echo]

I've heard a theory -- and I'm tempted to agree -- that Flemeth may have something to do with (or possibly is) the elven goddess Mythal. I recently played through DAII again, and Merrill's reaction to Flemeth on Sundermount seems to hint in that direction.

After all, if Flemeth didn't have some sort of connection to the Dalish, or the elves in general, why is a Dalish funeral rite required to bring her back?

I dunno. Seems as good an explanation as any, considering we know so little about who or what Flemeth really is.

[whykikyouwhy]

test for echo wrote...

I've heard a theory -- and I'm tempted to agree -- that Flemeth may have something to do with (or possibly is) the elven goddess Mythal. I recently played through DAII again, and Merrill's reaction to Flemeth on Sundermount seems to hint in that direction.

After all, if Flemeth didn't have some sort of connection to the Dalish, or the elves in general, why is a Dalish funeral rite required to bring her back?

I dunno. Seems as good an explanation as any, considering we know so little about who or what Flemeth really is.

Selfishly (because it's speculation that I have posed and pondered before), I applaud your theory. :happy:

It's possible that the altar was necessary because it was a connection point, or focal point if you will, at a place of tremendous power and memory, and thus would allow for the phoenix-like quasi-ressurection/reforming of Flemeth to occur. But clearly, based on the conversation with Merrill, Flemeth is old - as old, perhaps, as the time of Arlathan - "the People bend their knee too quickly" implies (at least to me) some sort of familiarity with the fall.

[mousestalker]

OP: That question is similar to asking what is love? Just FYI.

Modifié par mousestalker, 15 juillet 2012 - 12:54 .

[Masha Potato]

Flemeth is everything

[Blacklash93]

What is this connection to the Dalish she has that makes it more plausable she's one of the Pantheon?

I just gathered she interacted with the Dalish on occassion, probably to carry our her secretive business, and the seemingly untrue myths and stories (some that she might have planted) about her garnered fear and respect from them. I get the impression some took Merrill bowing to her as a sign she's some sort of goddess to them, which is very likely not what that was meant as.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 15 juillet 2012 - 06:09 .

[Elvis_Mazur]

She's an old Tevinter Magister that's plotting to bring down the cities that are against the Tevinter Imperium so that they can rule the world again.

Well, either that, or she's an elven god who wants the elves to rule again.

[test for echo]

whykikyouwhy wrote...
Selfishly (because it's speculation that I have posed and pondered before), I applaud your theory. :happy:

It's possible that the altar was necessary because it was a connection point, or focal point if you will, at a place of tremendous power and memory, and thus would allow for the phoenix-like quasi-ressurection/reforming of Flemeth to occur. But clearly, based on the conversation with Merrill, Flemeth is old - as old, perhaps, as the time of Arlathan - "the People bend their knee too quickly" implies (at least to me) some sort of familiarity with the fall.

This seems likely, considering that Sundermount is mentioned to have been the site of a great battle between the Tevinter Imperium and the ancient elves of Arlathan.

And I may be grasping at straws here, but during Act 3, Merrill stops at the altar to pray at Mythal's altar -- the same one that Flemeth was resurrected at. Judging by the responses she gives to Hawke's questions, I was under the impression that Mythal may not be the benevolent "all-mother" she is lauded to be in the legends. Merrill mentions that someone who angers her is stricken from the earth like they never lived. Not a very motherly way to treat those you're supposed to protect. That's really the response I'd expect from someone cunning and vindictive, like Flemeth.

[DarkDragon777]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

DarkDragon777 wrote...

No, she isn't an Old God who was preserved using the ritual because she CREATED the ritual.

I don't think it's stated anywhere that she created the ritual. It's certainly stated in-game that the OGB ritual is the reason why she sent Morrigan with the Warden, but I'm fairly certain it's never been claimed that she came up with it herself.

Morrigan says, "Flemeth designed the ritual herself", I believe.

Modifié par DarkDragon777, 16 juillet 2012 - 04:32 .

[septembervirgin]

 The Bioware designers are probably pounding their head over the same question: "What is Flemeth?"  Perhaps many interpretations will be put forth within the game itself, with player fiat deciding which is right.  I can only assume that if Bioware has a static consideration of Flemeth, it's probably a possessing entity.  If it were anything but something from the Fade, it would make more sense and be less mysterious.  I must admit, most of the conversational spirits from the Fade seem to announce themselves and hang tight to their selfhood.  The dichotomy is probably poorly considered, but it remains that Flemeth does seem to have too much a sense of purpose to be anything but an Old God or an equivalent thereby.  We might consider that Justice could be something of an god in times to come.

If we understand that Morrigan's infant might be possessed by an Old God, so we can't appease ourselves through reasoning that only dragons get bitten by big spirits.  Also, if that Old God Flemeth can transform the possessed body other than making them into messy abominations, then she can make them seem old before their time.  Wynne can't be the only abomination that is (relatively) pretty.  Has anyone counted the number of human-seeming abominations and the number of "dead gods" and elven gods?  There might be more to come, so don't rule out the possibility that all these guys are possessed.

We can temporarily discount the interpretation that everyone in Thedas is possessed, simply because it creates too strong a dichotomy of truth/untruth with so little proof.  We can temporarily discount the interpretation that Thedas is simply a "different flavor of Fade" for the same reason of proof-lack.  Same as anyone being met actually being possessed by Andraste, the Maker, etc.  But the Arch-Demons might just be unkillable even if their tainted vessel is destroyed.  They might simply return to the Fade -- and not as wisps.

There is leading evidence everywhere (written on my walls with gray crayon) that suggests Flemeth is not from the Fade nor from Thedas at all.  This does not discount her from being an Old God.  I've heard a suggestion she might be possessed by Boo, from Baldur's Gate, a concept which appeals to me.  All said, the Time draws close.  We shall all see again.  I just got an apartment and am no longer homeless, so I know this Time is coming near.  Sandal is a foot fetishist?  Who is to say...

[septembervirgin]

Uh. Yes. She's probably Mythal. Eeek. Why didn't I see that post? :<

[whykikyouwhy]

Blacklash93 wrote...

What is this connection to the Dalish she has that makes it more plausable she's one of the Pantheon?

I just gathered she interacted with the Dalish on occassion, probably to carry our her secretive business, and the seemingly untrue myths and stories (some that she might have planted) about her garnered fear and respect from them. I get the impression some took Merrill bowing to her as a sign she's some sort of goddess to them, which is very likely not what that was meant as.

I took the bow to be more a sign of respect than acknowledgement of divinity. I think it's more the dialogue that hints at some connection though. Flemeth recognizes Merrill as "one of The People" and asks her if she knows who she (Flemeth) is beyond the title "Asha'Bellanar." Merrill states that she knows "only a little." To which Flemeth tells her to stand - "the People bend their knee too quickly."

So, what I always gathered from that, is that Flemeth is indeed old, but has some backstory/identity/truth that might be known, in part, by the Keeper's First - someone who has a life dedicated to study, someone who understands the lore and traditions of a people that are as ancient as the land itself. Flemeth's deeds and/or exploits may exist in old legends and ancient elven history. And while yes, she may have just made the random walkthrough as some powerful old hag who needed an errand or two handled, that doesn't seem enough, imo, to warrant a sort of awe and reverence from a group that not only held a tremendous amount of power themselves, but were supposedly immortal.

The use of the altar, Mythal's altar, to "resurrect" Flemeth may have been convenient for storytelling, or it may imply that Flemeth derives or can tap into her power from something significant to the elves. Flemeth may be an avatar of Mythal, or she may have had a direct connection to the elven pantheon (without being one of them herself) and thus sort of receives Mythal's blessing and favor through the interaction with the altar. It's all speculation at this point, but that's where I see the possible connection at least.