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[staindgrey]

I'm sure there have been similar discussions before in this forum, but I saw none on the front page, and I didn't feel like searching for and bumping an old one. Basically, after beating Insanity in ME3, I have a simple prompt for a discussion:

Was ME3's Insanity easier than in past ME games?

Perhaps it was because of a learning curve that I'd surpassed. Or it's because the Infiltrator is especially good; I don't know. But throughout my first Insanity run this weekend (ending made me put the game down, blah blah...), I died maybe five times total, three of which happened after I lost the left flank in London.

This isn't meant to be a bragging thread of how "awesome" I am. I'm just curious to see if others see the difficulty in a similar light, and if not, how their experiences differed. I found myself not needing my squadmates all that much after purchasing and upgrading my Black Widow as an Iniltrator with Energy Drain learned. I could simply Energy Drain if I found myself in trouble, or Cloak then Energy Drain, then set off a Tech Burst with Incinerate, and if all else fails, just headshot everything with that slow motion scope. Occasionally I would rely on squadmates for stunning enemies before they got too close, or I'd bring Liara and Javik if there would be Banshees. But that's it.

Compared to ME1, it was a cake walk. Same with ME2, but to a lesser degree. I feel as though the overall difficulty has scaled down. I'll try running through later with a class I'm not as experienced with, then try with a lower level character, and see if my experience changes.

Anyway, enough about me. How do you all feel about Insanity in ME3?

[sharkboy421]

Yeah, I felt Insanity wasn't all that hard.  I'm not entirely sure why but I think part of it has to do with the removal of ME2's protection scheme.  In ME2 you had to have some idea of who to bring based on what you were fighting.  ME3 not so much, as most of what you fight has no protection.  Also the introduction of combos for almost every power made everyone alot stronger.  And I *think* enemies don't scale like they did in ME2; what you are fighting at lvl1 is only marginally stronger than what your fighting at lvl 60. 

I was rather disappointed at how easy the game felt on Insanity.  Things rarely ever felt intense or out of hand. 

[Jake Boone]

other than 1 or 2 fights (grissom atrium comes to mind), insanity was way too easy. Try finding Kronner's spectre difficulty. much more fun and way harder.

Modifié par Jake Boone, 28 juin 2012 - 06:04 .

[Beep Il]

Dark Channel->Throw->Throw->Throw->Throw until all enemies are dead.
Biotics are ludicrously overpowered and with them, this game's insanity is easier than ME2's normal.

[Zaidra]

One thing you need to remember is that (assuming you imported) you're completely overpowered at the start of me3, and even by the end you're still a way higher level than you would be in a single playthrough starting at level 1, which i'm assuming is what Bioware focused these difficulty levels on. Also, I don't think Bioware was going for a "enemies are way harder to kill on insanity" thing, I think they were more focusing on the "it's way easier to die by getting shot once" aspect of the hard difficulty.

Modifié par Zaidra, 28 juin 2012 - 06:57 .

[Temprathe]

Zaidra wrote...

 Also, I don't think Bioware was going for a "enemies are way harder to kill on insanity" thing, I think they were more focusing on the "it's way easier to die by getting shot once" aspect of the hard difficulty.

I agree. While I did notice enemies didn't go down quite as easily, this was just a matter of spending a few extra bullets or using incinerate once more. I fonud myself thinking, "How am I going to kill this thing without getting hit?" more than "How am I going to kill this thing?".

As someone said above, Grissom Academy is murder. Mainly because of the turrets.

Okay, totally because of the turrets. One mistake within a turret's viewpoint means instant death on that level.

[TJH2004]

Insanity for me did have its very difficult moments (Grissom academy and the Final assault on Earth sequence for me), however it wasnt as hard as i had expected, mainly due to me starting the Game at Level 30 so i had the upper hand. I thought insanity made you employ more tactics because due to upped enemies and more power use. But with my imported character and knowledge of my first ME3 playthrough it wasnt too much of a challenge

[igreenmagei]

There's also all that practice we get in multiplayer. I don't know about you guys, but I really think that made Insanity pretty easy. Easier than playing silver and gold by a long shot I thought! Still fun though.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Compared to ME1&2, ME3 Insanity is not very insane... In fact, it's quite lucid and sane.


ME1 Insanity had enemies that took literally 10mins to kill.

ME2 Insanity had relentless enemies you couldn't CC (well, the whole point was you had to work at it).

ME3 Insanity has the same old dudes doing the same old tricks maybe a little more aggressively; their health is increased, but so is your combo damage, so effectively you can smoke them just as hard as before.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 28 juin 2012 - 02:02 .

[Slakky]

TJH2004 wrote...

However it wasnt as hard as i had expected, mainly due to me starting the Game at Level 30 so i had the upper hand.

This.

Starting off returning players at %)*#%) level 30 is the the biggest mistake ME3 SP makes in terms of gameplay mechanics.  It's basically like forcing you to play through on Insanity to unlock Normal.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Slakky wrote...

TJH2004 wrote...

However it wasnt as hard as i had expected, mainly due to me starting the Game at Level 30 so i had the upper hand.

This.

Starting off returning players at %)*#%) level 30 is the the biggest mistake ME3 SP makes in terms of gameplay mechanics.  It's basically like forcing you to play through on Insanity to unlock Normal.

True, but try playing from lvl1...  If you know what a power combo is, ME3 Insanity is still a pushover compared to ME1&2...  Then you start levelling up your Incendiary Ammo and buying upgrades for your Avenger I...


If you can play Silver in multiplayer, dominating ME3 Insanity should be no issue IMO.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 28 juin 2012 - 02:06 .

[kiltysue]

I think this is an "it depends"...

But overall, I think ME2 insanity is more of a challenge.

Infiltrator, and vanguard are the "easymode" characters
for an insanity. Compared to other characters, they are
much more powerful in the solo game. For ME3, and
to a somewhat lesser degree, ME2.

ME3 presents the most challenging insanity run if you
start a brand new character from level1. Those first few
levels with limited powers and weak weapons... Probably
the most challenging part of any insanity run. Imports and
upgraded weapons drastically increase your power relative
to enemies.

Some of my favorite games are imports. But that is based
upon watching the way previous game choices play out in
ME3. By far, the more interesting games are fresh level1
games. Once you gain levels, you can stick to weaker
weapons in order to keep the difficulty more interesting.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^ "Most challenging" as in "most challenging for ME3" or "most challenging in the series"?

ME1&2 Insanity is waayy harder than ME3 Insanity in every sense, with or without import. ME1 is an absolute grindhouse imo.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 28 juin 2012 - 02:09 .

[capn233]

The thing about ME1 Insanity is that it is vastly different if you are Level 1 vs if you are Level 50+

Low level in a new game, I think it was fairly tough. Long cooldowns to punish you if you didn't think about when and what to use the power on, weapons that might as well have healed the enemy, and more chances to be instakilled (snipers, charging Krogan), as well as enemy knockdowns. By late game though you had relatively rapid cooldowns, weapons that could nearly burn through Immunity, and you yourself were nearly invincible especially with Colossus armor.

ME2 I think had the most "fair" and on the whole more difficult Insanity of the series. Combat mechanics meant that you had to think a little bit about what weapon or what power to use on what enemy. I wouldn't say the difficulty curve was perfect (it largely depends on when you can get certain upgrades) but as I said it is overall more fair.

ME3 is just basically near ME1 max character Insanity from the get go. You can be fairly powerful near the end of Mars even with a new character (you will be at something like Level 8 at that point)... and since they made everything a combo and combos are the only thing that scale in damage as difficulty improves, it makes it relatively easier. You aren't as unkillable as late game ME1 when you start, but your damage output is a whole lot higher.

[Slakky]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...
True, but try playing from lvl1...  If you know what a power combo is, ME3 Insanity is still a pushover compared to ME1&2...  Then you start levelling up your Incendiary Ammo and buying upgrades for your Avenger I...


If you can play Silver in multiplayer, dominating ME3 Insanity should be no issue IMO.

Yeah, I pretty much dropped SP after one playthrough, then replayed the last 2 hours for EC.  I remembered it being kind of easy, but Infiltrator!Shep feels like god mode after regular Gold play.  I can't hold that against Bioware too much though; most games where SP and MP are really similar have the same problem for MP veterans.

I'm just disappointed they seem to have inherited DA2's mental disease of "rewarding player = easier gameplay"

[ashwind]

If you start a new character - ME1 is tough. Not tougher than ME2, can be easier than ME2 depending on your luck with loots.

Once you reach lv50+ in ME1 and find Colossus, Savant, Spectre, Medi ExoSkel - ME1 difficulty no longer exists because you become immortal.

ME2 is overall the most brutal.

ME3 is between ME1 & ME2

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Slakky wrote...

I'm just disappointed they seem to have inherited DA2's mental disease of "rewarding player = easier gameplay"

Worst part is that ME3's gameplay doesn't have the same kind of elegance of ME2. Just about everything makes some sort of super hard-hitting combo, which means you have to consciously avoid combo'ing to get to any of the finer points of the gameplay. Eg: careful positioning and use of cover/manuever is wonderful on most of the levels in SP, but a lot of those little gems the level designers left for us are lost when you can more easily bulldoze straight through missions with Charge/Nova, Warp/Throw, GPR/Inferno Ammo, etc, etc.

I miss how with ME2, BSN was still discussing new playstyles, builds and tricks a good ~1-2 years after its release. Maybe if particular combos / weapons only affected certain enemies in certain ways, and if enemies had more pronounced strengths/weaknesses to different weapons/combos (kind of like a build on ME2's system), SP would have more replayability.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 28 juin 2012 - 05:02 .

[Zaidra]

capn233 wrote...


ME2 I think had the most "fair" and on the whole more difficult Insanity of the series. Combat mechanics meant that you had to think a little bit about what weapon or what power to use on what enemy. I wouldn't say the difficulty curve was perfect (it largely depends on when you can get certain upgrades) but as I said it is overall more fair.

Also it made you think more about what squadmate you took with you. Not sure about anyone else, but I beat me2 insanity on an incredibly laggy computer (only laggy for me2. I couldn't figure out why me2 lagged so much for the life of me O_o) which meant it was that much more important that I chose the right weapons, armor, squadmates, and powers. As much as I hate Miranda, I found that she was the most valuable squadmate (with me playing as a soldier) because she had both warp and overload, and increased squadmate health substantially. 

in me3, it's not as important who you take with you. It's true that when fighting geth, having Garrus with Overload might be pretty helpful, but you could get through a geth level with Liara, who is not equipped to fight geth at all, no problem. I think your squadmates do more as far as damage output and using their powers on their own (I've had Liara do biotic explosions on her own with singularity and warp dozens of times. shouldn't that be more of a strategically placed thing by the player?) 

each squadmate has their own special abilities that pretty much work on anything. Overload and warp both do damage to enemies without shields/barrier or armor/barrier, so even those powers are helpful against any crowd. In me2, there was a limit that made certain powers inaffective against certain defenses (meaning I couldn't use concussive shot on a shielded dude). It still reds out concussive shot on a shielded dude in me3, but you can still hit him and do some damage, which kind of takes away the point. 

[RedCaesar97]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...
Worst part is that ME3's gameplay doesn't have the same kind of elegance of ME2. Just about everything makes some sort of super hard-hitting combo, which means you have to consciously avoid combo'ing to get to any of the finer points of the gameplay. 
...
Maybe if particular combos / weapons only affected certain enemies in certain ways, and if enemies had more pronounced strengths/weaknesses to different weapons/combos (kind of like a build on ME2's system), SP would have more replayability.

One of the weaker points of the combo system is that combos work on protected enemies (enemies with shields, barrier or armor). The only thing protections seem to accomplish is preventing the enemy from being killed with one combo. And considering most enemies do not have any protection, you can crowd-control most enemies immediately, setting them up for an easy combo.

If it was more like ME2 where you could only combo unprotected enemies, maybe that would have improved it somewhat. 

Biotic combos are just biotic explosions now; no more physics-based biotic combos. This makes things easier as well, although I suspect that change may have been made to accomodate multiplayer. The other combos, fire explosions, cryo explosions, tech bursts (electrical explosions) are a nice addition, but I would have liked to see them exclusive to tech powers and not combat powers. By themselves, a Soldier with Disruptor Ammo and Concussive Shot can set off more tech bursts than an Engineer can in the same amount of time.

I am still having fun in ME3, do not get me wrong, but I agree with Locutus_of_BORG that ME2 insanity was more elegant.

[Sevrun]

I'll go ahead and take a swing at the ME3 Insanity difficulty. Just finished my second playthrough, and first ever with an adept on any game. Started from scratch with a level 1 on normal... and didn't even break a sweat until Kai Leng's death fight. That was just me losing track of one of his Phantom friends though.

May try an Infiltrator, but I'm not sure, Infiltrators have a hard time keeping my attention, and the engagement ranges in ME3 are ludicrously short for the 10X scopes they put on those rifles.

[Chrome tater tot]

I can't speak for ME1 (I don't have the time or patience to "unlock" difficulties), but it was way easier than ME2 insanity. Like you said, there were only a couple of "oh they finally got me" parts in ME3, but other than that it was straight money.

[kumquats]

The only challange in ME3 is Grissom academy, that can be kind of insane with the wrong class.
I played Sentinel, so everything was easy.

[Nugralsa1]

I played with soldier on insanity and i must admit i died many times in many location.The hardest,for my soldier has been with the ****ing cyberninja '.I drop difficult (Cause of EDI in team,ofcourse...)

[metamorphyse]

if you want insanity go for soldier, because you have to actually stick your head out of cover to kill something. Other than that its pretty simple.

if they wanted to make it really difficult they should have put more enemies at the start of the london lvl. The hades canon is amazing at getting rid of all your aiming skills.
A little too much ammo on all lvls as well,...

[Harbinger1985HU]

ME3 feels esier because the enemies shiled/barriers/armor are no more effecting some skill or ammo type. Like an armored unit or a shielded unit you can still freeze! That wasn't possible in ME1-2. A good example is the YMIR mech, one of the toughest enemies. Take down the shield, the armor then health. I used overload and warp/incinerate then freeze.

But in 3 the only really challenging enemy is the Banshee. The Geth Primes are easy targets with Tali.
Iplayed twice on Insanity with lvl30 Engineer and Sentinel, usually my team members are Liara and Javik/Kaiden. With right upgrade and armor Liara simply spam every enemy with Singularity, Javik' Dark channel another hit or Kaiden Reave and tech/biotic skills hit technically any type of enemy.

And one more thing make ME3 easier: you can equip any type of weapon from the start! You can do that in ME1, but a Sentinel or Engineer can't even aim correctly with a sniper or AR. In mE2 they can't use it, just after the Collector ship can pick one more weapon training. But in ME3... I charmed to use Argus rifle last time or Chakram Laucnher, or Javik's particle rifle. For the old times.