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[Helios969]

LPKerberos wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

What are the known weaknesses of the Reapers?   Firing chamber (ala Independence Day) is one.  Two were destroyed this way.  Was the one on Tuchunka a Soveriegn-class, anyone?  Any others known?

No, it was a smaller one. But as shown in the last mission on earth, those things can be killed with a nuclear launcher. I don't think ship weapons wouldn't be able to kill it.

Do we know the basis of said ship weapons?  Energy or projectile-based.  If projectile-based, what are the masses and velocities?  No ship-to-ship nuclear missiles?

[IanPolaris]

JPVS wrote...

LPKerberos wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

What are the known weaknesses of the Reapers?   Firing chamber (ala Independence Day) is one.  Two were destroyed this way.  Was the one on Tuchunka a Soveriegn-class, anyone?  Any others known?

No, it was a smaller one. But as shown in the last mission on earth, those things can be killed with a nuclear launcher. I don't think ship weapons wouldn't be able to kill it.

That we can assume to be an extremely weak Reaper. The others always took a lot more than a simple Cain heavy weapon. And required pin-point firing.


Oh, and before anyone tries to apply military knowledge and tactics to what I said (with the number of Reapers being dozens of times larger than the number of ships), I remind you that fighting in space is completely different than fighting in a planet. You don't have landscape and other features to provide tactical advantages. You can only relly on speed (which Reapers don't have) and the accuracy of guns (which the Reapers have). MAybe you can take cover in the other side of a planet, but that's just about as much cover as you will ever get. The number of tactics available if thus greatly reduced in a space battle. In the end, it always comes down to numbers of a trumph card.

Actually it's easy to hide in space.  Space is HUGE and as long as you can run silent, it's really hard to spot a cold object.  In fact this is how the Normandy Stealth Drive works and yes it DOES work against Reapers (oddly not against Prothean tech which is why it didn't work against the Collectors).  That makes space (esp in relatively dirty systems) nearly ideal for asymetric warfare assuming you can hide your energy signature (which this cycle CAN).

-Polaris

[JPVS]

Warrior Craess wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

This is the wrong question to ask.  The question is can the allied forces win an unconventional war against the Reapers without using the crucible?  I say yes, but it would be brutal.  You'd have to prepared to use WMD on your own populations when a system was lost, ensuring there was no population left to be harvested, simultaneously wiping out most or all the Reaper forces occupying a given world.  You'd have to operate in smaller cells, each capable of independent action so that individuals or cells indoctrinated could be triaged appropriately.  Unconventional methods such as slamming asteroids into Soveriegn-class Reapers or suicide ships traveling at FTL speeds.  I don't care what kind of plating or kinetic barrier tech the Reapers employ, they're not surviving those impacts.  And let's not forget the giant thresher maws...just kidding:)

At any rate this is merely an academic exercise, so people should be coming up with creative ways to conduct assymetric warfare against Reapers.  Think outside the box using some semblence of tactics and knowledge of physics, (please no more space magic.)

What are the known weaknesses of the Reapers?   Firing chamber (ala Independence Day) is one.  Two were destroyed this way.  Was the one on Tuchunka a Soveriegn-class, anyone?  Any others known?

and you'd be wrong. Please read the arguements we make against it. Then try to understand what no infrastructure means to our ability to fight.  No more guns, no more medical supplies, no more armor, no more thermal clips, no more food, no more clean water.  Every person lost to the reapers becomes a reaper. 

to win a war of atttrition you have to have more fighting capability than your enemy. We don't.  End of story. 

For a war of attrition, you need more fighting capability. For a direct war you need greater numbers or technological superiority. Which we also don't have (by far).
So, once more, impossible to win in current terms.

[Biotic Sage]

JPVS wrote...

And even the math I did was wrong on purpose! Lol
Half of millions either results in a few millions or several hundred thousands. But the essence is thus: there are dozens of times more Reaper ships than there are of remaining organic ships.

And that's my point.  I picked up on that even without crunching numbers at all.  It takes many of our ships to bring down one Reaper.  There are far more Reapers than our ships.  Gods and insects.

The whole point of the final scene of ME2: to visually put into perspective the impossible odds.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 28 juin 2012 - 09:50 .

[Gulaman]

No way. An entire fleet couldn't take down Sovereign. Only Saren's death caused Sov to fall otherwise it probably would have wiped out the entire Citadel fleet. The stupid thing is that the Reapers were meeting any resistance at all. Palaven, Thessia etc. should have been crushed within a few days, their entire fleets obliterated within hours. Somehow they survived for months. And the Protheans survived for centuries. Guess the Reapers like taking their time.

[Icinix]

JPVS wrote...

LPKerberos wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

What are the known weaknesses of the Reapers?   Firing chamber (ala Independence Day) is one.  Two were destroyed this way.  Was the one on Tuchunka a Soveriegn-class, anyone?  Any others known?

No, it was a smaller one. But as shown in the last mission on earth, those things can be killed with a nuclear launcher. I don't think ship weapons wouldn't be able to kill it.

That we can assume to be an extremely weak Reaper. The others always took a lot more than a simple Cain heavy weapon. And required pin-point firing.


Oh, and before anyone tries to apply military knowledge and tactics to what I said (with the number of Reapers being dozens of times larger than the number of ships), I remind you that fighting in space is completely different than fighting in a planet. You don't have landscape and other features to provide tactical advantages. You can only relly on speed (which Reapers don't have) and the accuracy of guns (which the Reapers have). MAybe you can take cover in the other side of a planet, but that's just about as much cover as you will ever get. The number of tactics available if thus greatly reduced in a space battle. In the end, it always comes down to numbers of a trumph card.

From within the game -

When Taetrus fell, the turians knew little about the Reapers except that they wanted to enrage the turians. Staying calm, the turians massed force around Palaven, their homeworld. Fleet Admiral Irix Coronati, in what became known as the "Fifteen-Minute Plan," stationed only two carriers, Undaunted and Resolute, near the system's relay. When the Reaper fleet emerged, the carriers launched swarms of unmanned fighters and spy drones. These were quickly destroyed, but the drones transmitted vital data on the Reapers' effective range, fleet composition, and exact location. The turians' other ships then deployed to defend the system in earnest.

Knowing that the Reapers' weapons had a longer effective range than any of his own, Coronati made a short, daring FTL jump--landing his dreadnoughts in the middle of the Reaper fleet. The dreadnoughts then turned to line up their main guns on the Reapers, which also needed to turn to fire on the turians. This ploy used the Reapers' size against them--because they could turn faster, and their concentrated firepower downed several Reaper capital ships.
The Reapers countered instantly. Their destroyers performed a jump of their own to the skies above Palaven, beginning orbital strikes of turian cities. The turians, forced to defend the planet, found themselves in a pitched battle far from the relay, from which emerged a seemingly endless line of Reaper ships. After massive casualties, Coronati ordered retreat
The second paragraph is of note. You may not have environmental advantages - but there is different tactics available. Downed several capital ships. In the Reapers first launch against Palaven. With no time and bugger all information.

You throw in jettisoned Mass Effect cores that are yet to be discharged, overridden FTL systems, multiple smaller fleets in open space jumping in on different sides of the Reapers forcing them to keep having to move to line up shots and all sorts of things open up. 

It wouldn't be easy, but against a united galaxy it should not have been made out as the total white wash it was made out to be. Considering an unadapting, uncreative Prothean empire that lost its Citadel unknowingly in the first strike seemed to still be putting up a hell of a fight a hundred or more years later - we should have been doing / done a hell of a lot better than what the game made it out to be.

Modifié par Icinix, 28 juin 2012 - 09:52 .

[JPVS]

IanPolaris wrote...

JPVS wrote...

LPKerberos wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

What are the known weaknesses of the Reapers?   Firing chamber (ala Independence Day) is one.  Two were destroyed this way.  Was the one on Tuchunka a Soveriegn-class, anyone?  Any others known?

No, it was a smaller one. But as shown in the last mission on earth, those things can be killed with a nuclear launcher. I don't think ship weapons wouldn't be able to kill it.

That we can assume to be an extremely weak Reaper. The others always took a lot more than a simple Cain heavy weapon. And required pin-point firing.


Oh, and before anyone tries to apply military knowledge and tactics to what I said (with the number of Reapers being dozens of times larger than the number of ships), I remind you that fighting in space is completely different than fighting in a planet. You don't have landscape and other features to provide tactical advantages. You can only relly on speed (which Reapers don't have) and the accuracy of guns (which the Reapers have). MAybe you can take cover in the other side of a planet, but that's just about as much cover as you will ever get. The number of tactics available if thus greatly reduced in a space battle. In the end, it always comes down to numbers of a trumph card.

Actually it's easy to hide in space.  Space is HUGE and as long as you can run silent, it's really hard to spot a cold object.  In fact this is how the Normandy Stealth Drive works and yes it DOES work against Reapers (oddly not against Prothean tech which is why it didn't work against the Collectors).  That makes space (esp in relatively dirty systems) nearly ideal for asymetric warfare assuming you can hide your energy signature (which this cycle CAN).

-Polaris

Remember when it was said, in ME1, that the Normandy's Stealth Drive cost as much as 13k fighters? Now the normandy is just a small frigate, it doesn't generate nearly as much heat as a cruiser. And here you are saying the Stealth Drive is an option that could have been explored and adapted to every ship, cruiser and dreadnaught?
I'll just considered you are now trolling around.

[Biotic Sage]

Gulaman wrote...

No way. An entire fleet couldn't take down Sovereign. Only Saren's death caused Sov to fall otherwise it probably would have wiped out the entire Citadel fleet. The stupid thing is that the Reapers were meeting any resistance at all. Palaven, Thessia etc. should have been crushed within a few days, their entire fleets obliterated within hours. Somehow they survived for months. And the Protheans survived for centuries. Guess the Reapers like taking their time.

You are right, but the way they did it does make for more interesting storytelling, so I'm willing to suspend disbelief a bit haha.  As long as the ultimate bottom line remains the same: Reapers = unstoppable machine god force.

[JPVS]

Icinix wrote...

JPVS wrote...

LPKerberos wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

What are the known weaknesses of the Reapers?   Firing chamber (ala Independence Day) is one.  Two were destroyed this way.  Was the one on Tuchunka a Soveriegn-class, anyone?  Any others known?

No, it was a smaller one. But as shown in the last mission on earth, those things can be killed with a nuclear launcher. I don't think ship weapons wouldn't be able to kill it.

That we can assume to be an extremely weak Reaper. The others always took a lot more than a simple Cain heavy weapon. And required pin-point firing.


Oh, and before anyone tries to apply military knowledge and tactics to what I said (with the number of Reapers being dozens of times larger than the number of ships), I remind you that fighting in space is completely different than fighting in a planet. You don't have landscape and other features to provide tactical advantages. You can only relly on speed (which Reapers don't have) and the accuracy of guns (which the Reapers have). MAybe you can take cover in the other side of a planet, but that's just about as much cover as you will ever get. The number of tactics available if thus greatly reduced in a space battle. In the end, it always comes down to numbers of a trumph card.

From within the game -

When Taetrus fell, the turians knew little about the Reapers except that they wanted to enrage the turians. Staying calm, the turians massed force around Palaven, their homeworld. Fleet Admiral Irix Coronati, in what became known as the "Fifteen-Minute Plan," stationed only two carriers, Undaunted and Resolute, near the system's relay. When the Reaper fleet emerged, the carriers launched swarms of unmanned fighters and spy drones. These were quickly destroyed, but the drones transmitted vital data on the Reapers' effective range, fleet composition, and exact location. The turians' other ships then deployed to defend the system in earnest.Knowing that the Reapers' weapons had a longer effective range than any of his own, Coronati made a short, daring FTL jump--landing his dreadnoughts in the middle of the Reaper fleet. The dreadnoughts then turned to line up their main guns on the Reapers, which also needed to turn to fire on the turians. This ploy used the Reapers' size against them--because they could turn faster, and their concentrated firepower downed several Reaper capital ships.The Reapers countered instantly. Their destroyers performed a jump of their own to the skies above Palaven, beginning orbital strikes of turian cities. The turians, forced to defend the planet, found themselves in a pitched battle far from the relay, from which emerged a seemingly endless line of Reaper ships. After massive casualties, Coronati ordered retreat.
The second paragraph is of note. You may not have environmental advantages - but there is different tactics available. Downed several capital ships. In the Reapers first launch against Palaven. With no time and bugger all information.

You throw in jettisoned Mass Effect cores that are yet to be discharged, overridden FTL systems, multiple smaller fleets in open space jumping in on different sides of the Reapers forcing them to keep having to move to line up shots and all sorts of things open up. 

It wouldn't be easy, but against a united galaxy it should not have been made out as the total white wash it was made out to be. Considering an unadapting, uncreative Prothean empire that lost its Citadel unknowingly in the first strike seemed to still be putting up a hell of a fight a hundred or more years later - we should have been doing / done a hell of a lot better than what the game made it out to be.

And you are considering the Reapers are just as unadaptable as the Protheans. Wrong. There are codex entries where Turian tactics are presente as working initially but then being countered soon after by the adapting Reapers.
Not to mention they have IFF that can calibrate where they exit in the Mass Relays (ME2 lore)

Modifié par JPVS, 28 juin 2012 - 09:53 .

[Oransel]

Biotic Sage wrote...
You are right, but the way they did it does make for more interesting storytelling, so I'm willing to suspend disbelief a bit haha.  As long as the ultimate bottom line remains the same: Reapers = unstoppable machine god force.

Bottom line is: unstoppable can be stopped © Shepard

[Biotic Sage]

Oransel wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...
You are right, but the way they did it does make for more interesting storytelling, so I'm willing to suspend disbelief a bit haha.  As long as the ultimate bottom line remains the same: Reapers = unstoppable machine god force.

Bottom line is: unstoppable can be stopped © Shepard

Rephrase:

Unstoppable via military force.  Stoppable via alternate means, a la Crucible.  Shepard is good at not getting killed by them though and taking a few down with him, but ultimately he would have died to eventually if the Crucible had not been deployed.

Modifié par Biotic Sage, 28 juin 2012 - 09:56 .

[Helios969]

Warrior Craess wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

This is the wrong question to ask.  The question is can the allied forces win an unconventional war against the Reapers without using the crucible?  I say yes, but it would be brutal.  You'd have to prepared to use WMD on your own populations when a system was lost, ensuring there was no population left to be harvested, simultaneously wiping out most or all the Reaper forces occupying a given world.  You'd have to operate in smaller cells, each capable of independent action so that individuals or cells indoctrinated could be triaged appropriately.  Unconventional methods such as slamming asteroids into Soveriegn-class Reapers or suicide ships traveling at FTL speeds.  I don't care what kind of plating or kinetic barrier tech the Reapers employ, they're not surviving those impacts.  And let's not forget the giant thresher maws...just kidding:)

At any rate this is merely an academic exercise, so people should be coming up with creative ways to conduct assymetric warfare against Reapers.  Think outside the box using some semblence of tactics and knowledge of physics, (please no more space magic.)

What are the known weaknesses of the Reapers?   Firing chamber (ala Independence Day) is one.  Two were destroyed this way.  Was the one on Tuchunka a Soveriegn-class, anyone?  Any others known?

and you'd be wrong. Please read the arguements we make against it. Then try to understand what no infrastructure means to our ability to fight.  No more guns, no more medical supplies, no more armor, no more thermal clips, no more food, no more clean water.  Every person lost to the reapers becomes a reaper. 

to win a war of atttrition you have to have more fighting capability than your enemy. We don't.  End of story. 

It's only the end of the story if people stop presenting arguments for it.  It's a debate that ultimately can't be won by either side.  And btw wars have been won with an inferior fighteing force and capabilities.

[JPVS]

Oransel wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...
You are right, but the way they did it does make for more interesting storytelling, so I'm willing to suspend disbelief a bit haha.  As long as the ultimate bottom line remains the same: Reapers = unstoppable machine god force.

Bottom line is: unstoppable can be stopped © Shepard

Sure, but Shepard finds some way. In ME1 he finds the prothean VI with the codes to take control of the citadel and wrestle it from Sovereign. In ME2 he finds away through the Omega-4 Relay. In ME3 he had to find a way too, a trumph card. Without that trumph card, he could not make it possible.

[IanPolaris]

JPVS wrote...

And you are considering the Reapers are just as unadaptable as the Protheans. Wrong. There are codex entries where Turian tactics are presente as working initially but then being countered soon after by the adapting Reapers.
Not to mention they have IFF that can calibrate where they exit in the Mass Relays (ME2 lore)

That means you change quicker and faster (see Miracle of Palaven which caught the Reapers completely flatfooted).

No one is suggesting that it would be quick or easy, and I'll even give you that the odds would be massively in favor of the Reapers.   But that is a far cry from impossible.  The Reapers only became impossible to defeat because of the Crucible and the power of plot.  Going by the own technical codex entries, the Reapers are beatable (but with extreme difficulty and cost).

-Polaris

[RiouHotaru]

The Reapers can be beaten on an individual basis, sure. But even Hackett states at high levels of readiness that their tactics consist entirely of hit-and-run maneuvers and shadowing. Straight up fights will at best, pause the Reapers. But as the Reapers blatantly ignore the usual tactics and rules of warfare (flanking has no effect, Reapers also have no supply lines), in the end, you'll lose.

Plus, the Fleet at Earth doesn't represent 100% of the Reaper's forces. So even assuming the Fleet won there, the Reapers would call in reinforcements and it'd just be over and done with. That's all there is too it.

[JPVS]

Helios969 wrote...
And btw wars have been won with an inferior fighteing force and capabilities.

In battlefields with tactical advantages, traps, other trumpth cards. In a battlefield where you can always be in the enemy's crossairs, where you cannot hide and can barely run, where your weapons are not nearly as powerful as your enemy's, you must either have massive numbers (which you don't have) or awesomely good tactics the enemy can't adapt too (which Reapers can).

Modifié par JPVS, 28 juin 2012 - 10:01 .

[IanPolaris]

JPVS wrote...

Oransel wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...
You are right, but the way they did it does make for more interesting storytelling, so I'm willing to suspend disbelief a bit haha.  As long as the ultimate bottom line remains the same: Reapers = unstoppable machine god force.

Bottom line is: unstoppable can be stopped © Shepard

Sure, but Shepard finds some way. In ME1 he finds the prothean VI with the codes to take control of the citadel and wrestle it from Sovereign. In ME2 he finds away through the Omega-4 Relay. In ME3 he had to find a way too, a trumph card. Without that trumph card, he could not make it possible.

Shepard didn't find a way.  He had a solution dumped in his lap that he had very little to do with.  The crucible is a 'posterior pull' to otherwise "defeat" invincible Reapers...who weren't invincible until then.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

JPVS wrote...

Helios969 wrote...
And btw wars have been won with an inferior fighteing force and capabilities.

In battlefields with tactical advantages, traps, other trumpth cards. In a battlefield where you can always be in the enemy's crossairs, where you cannot hide and can barely run, where your weapons are not nearly as powerful as your enemy's, you either have massive numbers (which you don't have) or awesomely good tactics the enemy can't adapt too (which Reapers can).

It's NOT hard to hide in space.

-Polaris

[Icinix]

JPVS wrote...

Icinix wrote...

JPVS wrote...

LPKerberos wrote...

Helios969 wrote...

What are the known weaknesses of the Reapers?   Firing chamber (ala Independence Day) is one.  Two were destroyed this way.  Was the one on Tuchunka a Soveriegn-class, anyone?  Any others known?

No, it was a smaller one. But as shown in the last mission on earth, those things can be killed with a nuclear launcher. I don't think ship weapons wouldn't be able to kill it.

That we can assume to be an extremely weak Reaper. The others always took a lot more than a simple Cain heavy weapon. And required pin-point firing.


Oh, and before anyone tries to apply military knowledge and tactics to what I said (with the number of Reapers being dozens of times larger than the number of ships), I remind you that fighting in space is completely different than fighting in a planet. You don't have landscape and other features to provide tactical advantages. You can only relly on speed (which Reapers don't have) and the accuracy of guns (which the Reapers have). MAybe you can take cover in the other side of a planet, but that's just about as much cover as you will ever get. The number of tactics available if thus greatly reduced in a space battle. In the end, it always comes down to numbers of a trumph card.

From within the game -

When Taetrus fell, the turians knew little about the Reapers except that they wanted to enrage the turians. Staying calm, the turians massed force around Palaven, their homeworld. Fleet Admiral Irix Coronati, in what became known as the "Fifteen-Minute Plan," stationed only two carriers, Undaunted and Resolute, near the system's relay. When the Reaper fleet emerged, the carriers launched swarms of unmanned fighters and spy drones. These were quickly destroyed, but the drones transmitted vital data on the Reapers' effective range, fleet composition, and exact location. The turians' other ships then deployed to defend the system in earnest.Knowing that the Reapers' weapons had a longer effective range than any of his own, Coronati made a short, daring FTL jump--landing his dreadnoughts in the middle of the Reaper fleet. The dreadnoughts then turned to line up their main guns on the Reapers, which also needed to turn to fire on the turians. This ploy used the Reapers' size against them--because they could turn faster, and their concentrated firepower downed several Reaper capital ships.The Reapers countered instantly. Their destroyers performed a jump of their own to the skies above Palaven, beginning orbital strikes of turian cities. The turians, forced to defend the planet, found themselves in a pitched battle far from the relay, from which emerged a seemingly endless line of Reaper ships. After massive casualties, Coronati ordered retreat.
The second paragraph is of note. You may not have environmental advantages - but there is different tactics available. Downed several capital ships. In the Reapers first launch against Palaven. With no time and bugger all information.

You throw in jettisoned Mass Effect cores that are yet to be discharged, overridden FTL systems, multiple smaller fleets in open space jumping in on different sides of the Reapers forcing them to keep having to move to line up shots and all sorts of things open up. 

It wouldn't be easy, but against a united galaxy it should not have been made out as the total white wash it was made out to be. Considering an unadapting, uncreative Prothean empire that lost its Citadel unknowingly in the first strike seemed to still be putting up a hell of a fight a hundred or more years later - we should have been doing / done a hell of a lot better than what the game made it out to be.

And you are considering the Reapers are just as unadaptable as the Protheans. Wrong. There are codex entries where Turian tactics are presente as working initially but then being countered soon after by the adapting Reapers.
Not to mention they have IFF that can calibrate where they exit in the Mass Relays (ME2 lore)

Wrong. Thats not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying keep adapting, milk something until they adapt, then milk that and so on and so fourth. Keep adapting and changing and make the Reapers HAVE to adapt to you. A united galaxy with many different philosophies and ideas and concepts opens up a whole galaxy of out of the box thinking - and since the Reapers are supposedly designed to prevent a singularity from occuring - then they must have limitations to prevent them from becoming the singularity. Otherwise they would simply wait for the singularity then come in and purge it.

We just need to adapt and keep adapting until we hit their limits. I'm not saying it would be a simple, use this tactic - yay happy galaxy celebrations. I'm saying a brutal war of attrition is winnable.

[Oransel]

Biotic Sage wrote...

Oransel wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...
You are right, but the way they did it does make for more interesting storytelling, so I'm willing to suspend disbelief a bit haha.  As long as the ultimate bottom line remains the same: Reapers = unstoppable machine god force.

Bottom line is: unstoppable can be stopped © Shepard

Rephrase:

Unstoppable via military force.  Stoppable via alternate means, a la Crucible.

Rephrase: Unstoppable with not enough trying. Stoppable with enough.

Seriously, you believe that generic "ancient WMD" card fits lore better than power of friendship, overcoming the impossible odds, heroism, unity and so on? Especially if we have no definitive proofs of conventional victory being impossible just as we have not definitive proofs of it being possible. Both my and your arguments are nothing more than speculations.

[Oransel]

JPVS wrote...

Oransel wrote...

Biotic Sage wrote...
You are right, but the way they did it does make for more interesting storytelling, so I'm willing to suspend disbelief a bit haha.  As long as the ultimate bottom line remains the same: Reapers = unstoppable machine god force.

Bottom line is: unstoppable can be stopped © Shepard

Sure, but Shepard finds some way. In ME1 he finds the prothean VI with the codes to take control of the citadel and wrestle it from Sovereign. In ME2 he finds away through the Omega-4 Relay. In ME3 he had to find a way too, a trumph card. Without that trumph card, he could not make it possible.

Trumph card is needed, of course. No arguing on this part. But instead of Crucible, I see Shepard's power of will as this trumph.

[Demon Velsper]

Allan Schumacher wrote...

Given that they reigned back the EMS requirements, I'm more inclined to state that the multiplayer requirement was an error.  It's certainly a recognition that the fans were not happy with the situation.

It says clearly in the topic about the lowered EMS that it was intentional that you had to play multiplayer or Infiltrator to get everything, stop trying to sugar coat it. You lied. Again.

[Warrior Craess]

Oransel wrote...

OblivionDawn wrote...

Oransel wrote...

No. Tragedy of Mass Effect series is that we can no longer trust writers = we can interpret and speculate as we please. Lies, retcons , asspulls like Crucible, Deus Ex Machina of starkid in a game that is advertised as a story wrote by writers and players together lead to a unique conclusion. For me, ME series is no longer about what writers say. Now this Universe plays by my rules. As I said, that has never happened before, but this horrible situation is a direct result of writers abandoning their own lore.

The story, barring pre-ending DLC, is done. What's this about trust? It's meaningless. The game is what it is. Sure there are some parts I don't like, but that's the same for any story.

Sure, you can interpret and speculate as you please, but again, you can do that with any story.

You can headcanon that you beat the Reapers conventionally. But making that possible in the official sense would make most of the game pointless and terrible. And honestly, the game doesn't need to take anymore hits to its story.

In a game where we I am forced to choose between 3 impossible and highly untolerable ending (for me) and 1 "Game Over" ending, why can't they add 1 more impossible ending that will be tolerable for me and many other people? Ideally, Bioware should rewrite ME3 from scratch with abandoning Crucible plot because it is a horrible mess plot-wise, but that is not an option for writers. That's why I go with compromise of conventional victory on high EMS to be put in existing game.  

Conventional victory is almost impossible, just like Suicide mission or stopping Sovereign were almost impossible missions. ME1 and ME2 gave us clear hints on conventional victory being possible if certain circumstances would be meet. It is in no way diminishing Reaper threat.

so you want the game to cater to your wishes?  Many people don't find Destroy, or Control to be impossible. And while I'lll never choose Synthesis due to the amount of space magic involved I don't expect them to give me another equally improbable ending to make me happy. 

Sadly the predictablity of the refusal outcome is the most logical and grounded of the results available. 

[JPVS]

IanPolaris wrote...

JPVS wrote...

Helios969 wrote...
And btw wars have been won with an inferior fighteing force and capabilities.

In battlefields with tactical advantages, traps, other trumpth cards. In a battlefield where you can always be in the enemy's crossairs, where you cannot hide and can barely run, where your weapons are not nearly as powerful as your enemy's, you either have massive numbers (which you don't have) or awesomely good tactics the enemy can't adapt too (which Reapers can).

It's NOT hard to hide in space.

-Polaris

Dude, stop trolling around. Ships are not cold corpses, they emit tremendous heat ME ships detect easily. You only hide those emissions with Stealth Drives (which can't possible be adapted to all ships and don't allow for a prolongued fire-fight) or by moving far away from the battle (in which case you cannot be targetted nor fire on the enemy).

[Helios969]

What are the Reaper's motivations? Harvest life and allow it to "ascend." What happens if there isn't enough of the various populations left to raise it to Reaper form? What happens to their motivation? If you take away their purpose does it affect the way they conduct warfare?