280 réponses à ce sujet

[aletto]

Yigorse wrote...

While I agree with the sentiment, this problem is not unique to the assault rifles. Have you ever seen someone using a Katana on gold? Besides, Mattock and Phaeston are pretty good, as you mentioned. Revenant can be made to work as well, Saber is pretty bad-ass IF you know what you're doing (FFS put that scope away!), I also have a soft spot for the avenger. It's not as bad as people think...

Yeah, but this thread is about Assault Rifles ;P
SMGs are the worst in that matter though.

[Torguemada]

aletto wrote...

Guys, this thread is not about the Falcon. This is about Assault Rifles in general and in general, they're bad.
Avenger - Fine in Bronze, usable in Silver, a liability in Gold.
Mattock - Usually not as good as a Carnifex, but it can be useful. The carnifex is the better choice though if you don't know what you're up against.
Phaeston - I think it's mediocre. It doesn't have any real strengths but at the same time, it can't be called bad. Sucks against armor though, like most ARs do
Vindicator - Why should i use it? The Mattock is better, because it simply deals more damage. They even nerfed the Vindicator for no reason.
Geth Pulse Rifle - Soooo bad.... the damage is too low to offset its good traits.
Revenant - If you have the hurricane, there is no need for the Revenant.
Falcon - As I said - it's special. Some people are really good with it, but the majority didn't figure it out.
Striker - I cannot evaluate his weapon, never used it
The Harrier and the Saber are both ultra rares, so I'll exclude them. They're both good though.
As you can see, the majority of the ARs is just bad. They have one thing in common though: They're equally bad against armor (except the saber (which is more like a semi auto sniper anyway)).
My personal wishes:
-buff AR in general; more damage will be okay, I think
-give shields and barriers a "negative" damage reduction as opposed to armor, each shot would receive extra damage, rendering rapid fire weapons more useful against shields than slow firing weapons

I don't know, to me your list reads like the AR:S have exactly as many(relativly speaking) gold "viable" guns as all the other weapon classes(IE, there only 1 really usable SMG)

Modifié par Torguemada, 28 juin 2012 - 01:02 .

[Nl55]

You CAN use AR on Gold, but it is senseless in most cases.
We have no good AR in Rare category.
Falcon is a grenade launcher, not AR.
Striker is a light full-auto grenade launcher, not AR.
GPR is ... rarely bad. Yes, it is really "gold card".
Revenant can be effective only on turian soldier. Bad choice in other cases.

Saber is black card, "ultra rare", but Carnifex better... Gold Card. Pistol.
Harrier is good. This is ultra rare black card. But may be Paladin, sniper pistol, will be more pragmatic.

[aletto]

Torguemada wrote...

aletto wrote...

Guys, this thread is not about the Falcon. This is about Assault Rifles in general and in general, they're bad.
Avenger - Fine in Bronze, usable in Silver, a liability in Gold.
Mattock - Usually not as good as a Carnifex, but it can be useful. The carnifex is the better choice though if you don't know what you're up against.
Phaeston - I think it's mediocre. It doesn't have any real strengths but at the same time, it can't be called bad. Sucks against armor though, like most ARs do
Vindicator - Why should i use it? The Mattock is better, because it simply deals more damage. They even nerfed the Vindicator for no reason.
Geth Pulse Rifle - Soooo bad.... the damage is too low to offset its good traits.
Revenant - If you have the hurricane, there is no need for the Revenant.
Falcon - As I said - it's special. Some people are really good with it, but the majority didn't figure it out.
Striker - I cannot evaluate his weapon, never used it
The Harrier and the Saber are both ultra rares, so I'll exclude them. They're both good though.
As you can see, the majority of the ARs is just bad. They have one thing in common though: They're equally bad against armor (except the saber (which is more like a semi auto sniper anyway)).
My personal wishes:
-buff AR in general; more damage will be okay, I think
-give shields and barriers a "negative" damage reduction as opposed to armor, each shot would receive extra damage, rendering rapid fire weapons more useful against shields than slow firing weapons

I don't know, to me your list reads like the AR:S have exactly as many(relativly speaking) gold "viable" guns as all the other weapon classes(IE, there only 1 really usable SMG)

Yeah, SMGs are the worst. But this thread is about ARs and you have to begin somewhere, right?
As I already said, all ARs are viable, but personally I think only two are really good and comparable to weapons like the Carnifex, like the Black Widow, the Krysae and so on.
The Harrier and the Saber. Both of them are ultra rare.

Modifié par aletto, 28 juin 2012 - 01:10 .

[Ramsutin]

Just give us the "rapid fire weapons drain shields faster" thing. A hit from Claymore takes 2-4 bars of shields away on Prime and so does Javelin. AR take toooooooo looooooong to get them shields stripped.

[Ogrinash]

The Damage Reduction on Gold has to go.

It doesn't even effect the powerful weapons all that much (45 points or whatever it is off a Claymore, Carnifex, Graal. GPS, and whatnot doesn't do anything for the most part); all it does is make high ROF but low damage per shot weapons do barely anything.

[hbogyt II]

sclera wrote...

hbogyt II wrote...

The Revanant, Mattock and Falcon are all inadequate as the main damage dealer and are, therefore, useless for a soldier.

Lol

Care to enlighten me how you would make these guns shine on a soldier?

[aletto]

Ogrinash wrote...

The Damage Reduction on Gold has to go.

It
doesn't even effect the powerful weapons all that much (45 points or
whatever it is off a Claymore, Carnifex, Graal. GPS, and whatnot doesn't
do anything for the most part); all it does is make high ROF but low
damage per shot weapons do barely anything.

that's how armor supposed to work and it is a really good mechanic. The thing is, most ARs are too weak.
I mean, without the DR, armor would become the same as shields/barriers: A different color for health.

edit: shields should be the exact opposite. I think Bioware used shield gate to nerf slow firing weapons and buff rapid fire weapons, but it doesn't work. It only annoys snipers, and shotgun users just don't care.

shields should have a "negative" DR. Each shot receives extra damage. That would be ideal for rapid fire weapons and not so ideal for slow-firing, heavy-hitting guns

Modifié par aletto, 28 juin 2012 - 01:34 .

[Ziegrif]

My Vindicator... IT CRIES FOR VENGEANCE!
would love somw AR love...

[Nl55]

hbogyt II wrote...

sclera wrote...

hbogyt II wrote...

The Revanant, Mattock and Falcon are all inadequate as the main damage dealer and are, therefore, useless for a soldier.

Lol

Care to enlighten me how you would make these guns shine on a soldier?

1. All of this guns have good (not best) damage. 
2. Soldiers are not perfect DD now(but humans and turians can deal high damage).

[Methew]

Holy-Hamster wrote...

 If you have the harrier already, I'm not sure why this thread exists.....

For everyone who doesn't have a Harrier.

[theshagster]

I use a human soldier all the time. The Rev X is gold viable, I score between 50k and 110k points depending on team and map. I am almost always equiped with a level 3 ar upgrade and level 3 ap ammo. I also use warfighter V.

The falcon is good but different to play with but it is nice to have againt any of the good troop units and is capable of trickshots but I find it really subpar against big armored units.

I played with the striker last night and it seemed ok but I could run it out of ammo in about 30 seconds which makes you bring a second weapon.

Whenever I play the saber I just wonder why I did not just bring a sniper rifle maybe I will try it again.

I dont have a harrier so the only thing I can say about it is sometimes it can take a long time to get a ur weapon.

[aletto]

Methew wrote...

Holy-Hamster wrote...

 If you have the harrier already, I'm not sure why this thread exists.....

For everyone who doesn't have a Harrier.

And for everyone, who wants to use other weapons as well.
Technically, we only need 3 weapons: the carnifex for casters, the Krysae for sniper and maybe the claymore/GPS for anything else. The rest is pretty much obsolet.

[NuclearTech76]

hbogyt II wrote...

sclera wrote...

hbogyt II wrote...

The Revanant, Mattock and Falcon are all inadequate as the main damage dealer and are, therefore, useless for a soldier.

Lol

Care to enlighten me how you would make these guns shine on a soldier?

Falcon with cyro is devastating at a choke point. Freeze everything follow up with a grenade when the log jam of frozen death gets too delicious not to blow up. Vorcha can stunlock/freeze and follow up with heavy melee and pretty much melee everything on the board except boss enemies.

You asked specifically about soldiers but it is also great on tech based classes. Use the disrupter rounds on tech ability classes to set up tech bursts.

The stunlocking/AOE spreading the ammo powers is where the weapon shines instead of just raw damage output. You have to use your abilities together with the weapon to get the most out of it.

Modifié par NuclearTech76, 28 juin 2012 - 01:39 .

[Nl55]

theshagster wrote...

I use a human soldier all the time. The Rev X is gold viable, I score between 50k and 110k points depending on team and map.  I am almost always equiped with a level 3 ar upgrade and level 3 ap ammo. I also use warfighter V.

 
You can do it better with Mattock - it would be killing enemies faster.

[Fang92]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

hbogyt II wrote...

sclera wrote...

hbogyt II wrote...

The Revanant, Mattock and Falcon are all inadequate as the main damage dealer and are, therefore, useless for a soldier.

Lol

Care to enlighten me how you would make these guns shine on a soldier?

Falcon with cyro is devastating at a choke point. Freeze everything follow up with a grenade when the log jam of frozen death gets too delicious not to blow up. Vorcha can stunlock/freeze and follow up with heavy melee and pretty much melee everything on the board except boss enemies.

You asked specifically about soldiers but it is also great on tech based classes. Use the disrupter rounds on tech ability classes to set up tech bursts.

The stunlocking/AOE spreading the ammo powers is where the weapon shines instead of just raw damage output. You have to use your abilities together with the weapon to get the most out of it.

So what youre saying is that i need a consumable to make a grenade launcher good? What does that say about the real ARs in the category. Hmm?

[theshagster]

Nl55 wrote...

theshagster wrote...

I use a human soldier all the time. The Rev X is gold viable, I score between 50k and 110k points depending on team and map.  I am almost always equiped with a level 3 ar upgrade and level 3 ap ammo. I also use warfighter V.

 
You can do it better with Mattock - it would be killing enemies faster.

Truthfully I have no interest in clicking that many times.  Maybe I will try it once to find out but then I will have to go and ice my trigger finger down.

[Igipopp]

The Harrier is awesome on Gold. I had no difficulty to mow down enemies. With AR and a little skill you can unload 2 clips without reloading and kill kill KILL...

[aletto]

aletto wrote...

the harrier is one assault rifle. the problem is that the majority of them is just. plain. bad.
besides, the harrier is ultra rare [...].

[Sgt SuperWae]

I agree with you OP.
It's not that ARs aren't viable on Gold; you can succeed with an AR if you know what you're doing.  The problem is that there are so many better options outside of ARs that it kind of renders ARs irrelavent.  Yes, this is a cooperative MP, but everyone knows that killing things -- killing lots of this -- is what makes the game fun.  Other than a couple of ultra-rare ARs, all the other weapon categories have a greater number of effective killing machines.

I fell in love with the Mattock in ME2, and also used it in both my first and second playthroughs of ME3, but in MP, the Mattock is average at best.  That -- to me -- sucks.

ARs need some love, and I look forward to the day I actually want to go full-auto.

Modifié par Sgt SuperWae, 28 juin 2012 - 02:01 .

[hbogyt II]

I am not saying that those weapons are without any utility, but I can not help but hope I had a different weapon some times.

They all have their weaknesses.

The Falcon manages until a boss unit shows up. At this point, the Falcon user has, in my opinion has 2 options:
1. delegate the task of killing said unit to team mates who might be thinking the same going into this game and chose their loadouts accordingly.
2. Kite around the map killing non-massive units and depleting the wave budget before dealing with massive units. This works well in theory, alas not in practice.

The Revanant, with the proper equipment, fares relatively well against everything, except phantoms in close quarters.

The Mattock is just mediocre in terms of damage output even with Marksman or Adrenaline Rush.

Edit: I will take the comment that the Mattock dishes out more damage than the Revanant at face value.

I have had my fare share of success with the above mentioned assault rifles when there were team mates with other weapons and/or abilities that complemented my weapon and made the weakness less of a problem.

Again, as I said, if you were unfortunate enough to land in one of the situations that your weapon is least able to handle, you would need, team mates or consummables to get you out of it.

Modifié par hbogyt II, 28 juin 2012 - 02:06 .

[Nl55]

theshagster wrote...

Nl55 wrote...

You can do it better with Mattock - it would be killing enemies faster.

Truthfully I have no interest in clicking that many times.  Maybe I will try it once to find out but then I will have to go and ice my trigger finger down.

I do not tell about your physical possibilities. Only about weapons possibilities.
You are just lazy casual player. It is not uncommon, not offence, just relax.

[Atheosis]

GPR, Phaeston, Vindicator, and Revenant could all use a 20% damage buff. Maybe the Falcon too.

[hbogyt II]

Atheosis wrote...

GPR, Phaeston, Vindicator, and Revenant could all use a 20% damage buff. Maybe the Falcon too.

Bah, I want to maintain the current class of aristocracy. God forbid the rise of the middle class!!!!!!!!!!

[ABjerre]

Iacov wrote...
Especially (besides the Revenant and the Harrier) the Phaeston and the Mattock - I could kiss the designer who gave them their look!
But on Gold they are absolutely useless...even the gorgeous Revenant would be useless if not the sheer amount of bullets per clip

I'm not going to go into a debate over the design of the weapons themselves, as that is a matter of personal taste, but regarding their viability on higher difficulties...

Them being "useless" on Gold difficulty may be related to the quality of the weapons: Uncommon. They are not meant to work on Gold diffuculty - you have Rare and Ultra Rare weapons for that.

The Cerberus Harrier is a very nice (direct in every quality) upgrade over the Phaeston, and the M99 Saber nicely replaces the M96 Mattock. Both of those are very usefull on gold.