165 réponses à ce sujet

[GallowsPole]

I don't see a whole lot of complaining of stasis sniping or shotgunning, which in my mind, is no different than using TC to take advantage of damage bonuses. I bet if the Asari vanguard got the same damage bonuses a TC inf would get, they'll be hollering about that.

The reason the cries are starting about arc grenades, again, bonuses/scores.

No one will admit it, but all these game changes are to sate the egos of all sides. When one scores more, it needs to be nerfed.

Ego, ego, ego. All over a video game. I had some college kid yelling at me because somehow, on Giant, I was in his line of fire. I take breaks from Gold to play a more relaxed game on Silver and because I have arthritic hands, which a lot of duck and covering hurts. My god. This is what's in college these days? So I said, well let me fix that. For the rest father round it was raving, BE's and CQC. I was no longer in his line of fire.

[Subtle Riot]

I think people should give the Turian Soldier a shot. He's pretty freakin' awesome with marksman. Nothing else matters. Marksman is amazing.

[lpconfig]

You dont want to play anything else? Well, plenty of people I play with can still use their infiltrators well. If you don't want to step up your infiltrator gameplay, or work on other classes, you know where to find the door. You will not be missed.

[CmnDwnWrkn]

FlamboyantRoy wrote...

CmnDwnWrkn wrote...

People thought I was going too far when I said a Tac Cloak nerf would cause people to leave the game because they don't know how to play otherwise.  Now we see it was an accurate prediction.

hey shawty. lemme holla at you right quick ya know what im sayin. checkin you out over there and you lookin kinda good, ya know what im sayin.
so i was wondering ya know how about you and me go back to the place, get comfortable, probably sip on some of this henney, you know what im sayin, and after that, you know what im... sayin, we can do the grownup and you can let me clap on dem cheeks, ya hear me? 

Infiltrators gonna trate'

WTF

[DHR107]

UKStory135 wrote...

Hakumen wrote...

Today's match:

Nothing has changed. They just made class a little worse for the wrong reasons.

That is what I think. The Infiltrator went from a versatile class to a quick cloak shotgun killer.

That shows nothing apart from you being a kill stealer... other 3 classes with 50 assists each and you have just the bronze one? Hmmm....

[Atheosis]

Your precious Infiltrator was overpowered. It got nerfed. Deal with it.

[InfamousResult]

GallowsPole wrote...

I don't see a whole lot of complaining of stasis sniping or shotgunning, which in my mind, is no different than using TC to take advantage of damage bonuses. I bet if the Asari vanguard got the same damage bonuses a TC inf would get, they'll be hollering about that.

No one will admit it, but all these game changes are to sate the egos of all sides. When one scores more, it needs to be nerfed.

Damage bonus on the ability was too high, while offering a ridiculous amount of versatility, and a cooldown that could absolutely ignore weight. Tactical Cloak is basically having two abilities in one- BOTH of which are more useful than a lot of powers that other classes have. It was not simply about taking advantage of the damage bonus, even though- as I said- that damage bonus was still higher than any other damage bonus.

Also, no one will admit that, because it's just not true. That's like if I accuse every single person who didn't want / doesn't like the changes of just being bad at the game, and that the only reason they don't want anything changed is because they won't be able to play Gold any more if even the slightest tweak is made.

[Cundu_Ertur]

InfamousResult wrote...

ol MISAKA lo wrote...

But Derek, despite his aggressive tone, he does have a point here.  It seems like the balance changes were punishing the wrong type on infiltrators, and is now pushing the use of slayer-INF style even more, you know - the type that everyone was really complaining about.

No "despite" there- calling a group of fellow forumites "whiners, talentless hacks, and mewling infants" isn't acceptable behavior. The casual insulting of people who requested balance changes seriously needs to stop.

Missed your critique when that language and tone was used against OP. I guess it's ok to casually insult people who disagree with your infinite wisdom.

[Jay_Hoxtatron]

Nvm

Modifié par Jay_Hoxtatron, 28 juin 2012 - 03:48 .

[smokesheller87]

I was one of the ones who was weary of this change, but I've played several gold games after respeccing for duration and it's pretty much the same to me, I've always been going for headshots on what gives me headshots lol, boss unit's just take a little longer to kill now

[Cundu_Ertur]

InfamousResult wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

I don't see a whole lot of complaining of stasis sniping or shotgunning, which in my mind, is no different than using TC to take advantage of damage bonuses. I bet if the Asari vanguard got the same damage bonuses a TC inf would get, they'll be hollering about that.

No one will admit it, but all these game changes are to sate the egos of all sides. When one scores more, it needs to be nerfed.

Damage bonus on the ability was too high, while offering a ridiculous amount of versatility, and a cooldown that could absolutely ignore weight. Tactical Cloak is basically having two abilities in one- BOTH of which are more useful than a lot of powers that other classes have. It was not simply about taking advantage of the damage bonus, even though- as I said- that damage bonus was still higher than any other damage bonus.

I largely agree, actually. Something needed to be done.
I just think that the base damage bonus nerf needs to be moved from rank 1 to rank 4. Before, the reduction to the damage bonus for taking the duration bonus was 44%. Now it's 50%, and the total value of the bonus is less. There's still a choice duration vs damage, but less painful. It's just that the brunt of the change as it isnow is misdirected in large part against where the problem wasn't.

[InfamousResult]

Cundu_Ertur wrote...

Missed your critique when that language and tone was used against OP. I guess it's ok to casually insult people who disagree with your infinite wisdom.

Oh, you missed it? Here, let me repost it for you, then.

InfamousResult wrote...

Tommy 9un wrote...

Plus I was doing less damage than a bloody adept sniper who was also running a valiant 2

You said you specced for damage, so that is literally impossible. Even if you don't spec for Sniper Rifle damage, Tactical Cloak still grants an 80% bonus to damage- while Stasis only grants 50%, at the very end of the tree, and only if they don't spec for Bubble. Additionally, Stasis's base recharge is 12 seconds, and you can get as low a cooldown from TC as 3 seconds. You should at least be able to get off two Tactical Cloak cycles in the time it takes for the Adept Sniper to get off one.

If Adept Sniper did better than you, that's because Adept Sniper was simply better.

Yes, I can see how a breakdown of an impossible accusation with use of actual in-game statistics could be considered exactly the same as straight-up insulting people. I can see how saying that one player is better than another is the same as calling people "talentless hacks". I can see how you could come to such a conclusion.

Wait, no, I can't see that at all.

Because it's not true.

Modifié par InfamousResult, 28 juin 2012 - 03:56 .

[Subtle Riot]

InfamousResult wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

I don't see a whole lot of complaining of stasis sniping or shotgunning, which in my mind, is no different than using TC to take advantage of damage bonuses. I bet if the Asari vanguard got the same damage bonuses a TC inf would get, they'll be hollering about that.

No one will admit it, but all these game changes are to sate the egos of all sides. When one scores more, it needs to be nerfed.

Damage bonus on the ability was too high, while offering a ridiculous amount of versatility, and a cooldown that could absolutely ignore weight. Tactical Cloak is basically having two abilities in one- BOTH of which are more useful than a lot of powers that other classes have. It was not simply about taking advantage of the damage bonus, even though- as I said- that damage bonus was still higher than any other damage bonus.

Also, no one will admit that, because it's just not true. That's like if I accuse every single person who didn't want / doesn't like the changes of just being bad at the game, and that the only reason they don't want anything changed is because they won't be able to play Gold any more if even the slightest tweak is made.

So being able to keep a phantom from attacking you with stasis, getting a free headshot, AND getting a damage bonus for it.. isn't having multiple abilities in one? How about when you throw in that you can BE it? 

Not saying its as imba.. but come on.. There are quite a few things that fall into that sort of.. can do two things category.

Modifié par Subtle Riot, 28 juin 2012 - 03:57 .

[Cundu_Ertur]

OSDAPro13 wrote...

I actually don't mind the TC change. It makes sense. Now you have two relatively distinct classes of infiltrator. Either an assassin or a scout / support class as some have pointed out already. I had to respec my guy through promotion but it still works very well.

I think BW did a good job handling it.

I agree in the most part, it's just too much of a nerf against support and hardly any against the assassin. Even if you spec for duration, the duration is still over 3 seconds shorter than it was before, and to do that you give up 50% of the bonus instead of 44% like before. So you lose more to get less. And the GI's with shotguns still mow down everything in their path.

[Persona RED]

Tommy 9un wrote...
 

All the rest of us infiltrators are in the same boat, but creating a thread like this won't help. If enough people feel the same, then the changes may be rolled back but, until then you have to deal with the changes like the rest of us.

I agree, the cloak is shorter now and definitely doesn't give you as much time to get downloads but, it isn't class breaking. You will just have to change your technique a bit, as your class has now changed a bit.

I am actually a little glad for the changes. All I do is play and promote infiltrators, and these changes have forced me to tackle things with more tact and skill, just as a sniper should.

[InfamousResult]

Subtle Riot wrote...

So being able to keep a phantom from attacking you with stasis, getting a free headshot, AND getting a damage bonus for it.. isn't having multiple abilities in one? How about when you throw in that you can BE it?

No, that isn't having "multiple abilities in one"- that's doing exactly what Stasis does. Freezing an opponent in place. The freezing the opponent / getting the headshot are one in the same. The damage bonus, I'll give to you, is in fact a bonus- but as I pointed out before, it is not on par with TC's damage bonus, it has a weight-affected cooldown unlike TC, and freezing one enemy and having a damage bonus on just that one enemy is not the same as being able to cloak, more easily revive teammates, more easily capture objectives, and being able to spread your damage bonus to several enemies in the same timespan as a Stasis sniper because of a 3-second cooldown on an ability that doesn't just affect a single shot.

Stasis is nowhere near Tactical Cloak, even after the rebalance.

[UKStory135]

Derek Hollan wrote...

Cundu_Ertur wrote...

igreenmagei wrote...

Infiltrator is my favourite class to play and I like the change. It's cool to be able to choose between support character with the 150%+ cloak time or pure sniper with the extra damage.

Let's review. X = weapon base damage.

Run'n'gunners rocking shotguns who don't do objectives or revive, -10% X to bonus.
Snipers who don't do objectives or revive, -41% X to bonus.
Snipers who used to spec to damage but now re-spec duration to do objectives or revive, -91% X to bonus. The bonus is effectively halved.

Apparently the problem is that there were too many snipers doing objectives and reviving and not enough snipers run'n'gunning. I'm 100% positive that this is EXACTLY the problem that led so many whiners, talentless hacks, and mewling infants to endlessly complain about the infiltrator -- those damned infiltrators are doing objectives and reviving too much!
Ummmm, wait, I'm being told that no, it was that infiltrators did too much damage if they were pure snipers or run'n'gunners so they were OP and needed to be nerfed FOR SCIENCE.
Ah. Then these changes correct that... ummmm... by... see the fix is that... uhhhh... if you... uhhh... well, there's...
Huh.
Seems to me that the 'fix' mostly affects the wrong snipers, and while it does modify the screw-the-team snipers a bit, it almost completely ignores infiltrators who don't use a sniper rifle.

Let's keep it civil, please.
un

He is 100% right.  Where cloak was OP, evo 4's damage boost, was the least effected part. Snipers already have shield-gating, the decapitation of Primes and Brutes, Poor fire rates, and reload times, and higher penalties for misses.  They were not OP, at least not enough to warrant to the big nerf pointed soley at them. 

Now non-human infiltrators are all going to be in a 4/6/6/6/4 build while the HI's will be using 4/6/4/6/6 builds all using either the Claymore of GPS.  So in PUG's we now have just two viable weapon classes for almost every character.  Right now 33/36 of my characters have been equipped with either a heavy pistol (on casters) or shotgun (on everybody else). To be fair, I'm going to try the hurricane on my Turians tonight.  If you guys keep nerfing powers, I'll switch everyone to claymores and the game will become a reload cancel competition. BTW, can we get the medi-gel reload trick on XBox 360?

[Tankcommander]

ol MISAKA lo wrote...

Derek Hollan wrote...

Cundu_Ertur wrote...

igreenmagei wrote...

Infiltrator is my favourite class to play and I like the change. It's cool to be able to choose between support character with the 150%+ cloak time or pure sniper with the extra damage.

Let's review. X = weapon base damage.

Run'n'gunners rocking shotguns who don't do objectives or revive, -10% X to bonus.
Snipers who don't do objectives or revive, -41% X to bonus.
Snipers who used to spec to damage but now re-spec duration to do objectives or revive, -91% X to bonus. The bonus is effectively halved.

Apparently the problem is that there were too many snipers doing objectives and reviving and not enough snipers run'n'gunning. I'm 100% positive that this is EXACTLY the problem that led so many whiners, talentless hacks, and mewling infants to endlessly complain about the infiltrator -- those damned infiltrators are doing objectives and reviving too much!
Ummmm, wait, I'm being told that no, it was that infiltrators did too much damage if they were pure snipers or run'n'gunners so they were OP and needed to be nerfed FOR SCIENCE.
Ah. Then these changes correct that... ummmm... by... see the fix is that... uhhhh... if you... uhhh... well, there's...
Huh.
Seems to me that the 'fix' mostly affects the wrong snipers, and while it does modify the screw-the-team snipers a bit, it almost completely ignores infiltrators who don't use a sniper rifle.

Let's keep it civil, please.

But Derek, despite his aggressive tone, he does have a point here.  It seems like the balance changes were punishing the wrong type on infiltrators, and is now pushing the use of slayer-INF style even more, you know - the type that everyone was really complaining about.

Precisely. The damage nerfs were fine; the duration nerf was uncalled for and discourages teamwork much more so than the damage nerfs encouraged it.

[Cundu_Ertur]

InfamousResult wrote...

Cundu_Ertur wrote...

Missed your critique when that language and tone was used against OP. I guess it's ok to casually insult people who disagree with your infinite wisdom.

...
Yes, I can see how a breakdown of an impossible accusation with use of actual in-game statistics could be considered exactly the same as straight-up insulting people. I can see how saying that one player is better than another is the same as calling people "talentless hacks". I can see how you could come to such a conclusion.

Wait, no, I can't see that at all.

Because it's not true.

Not what I meant.
I meant that after:

BROxXx wrote...

stop being bad, l2p

...you posted something about being civil and not casually insulting? I didn't see it.

What about

StrawHatMoose wrote...

Sorry you have no skill. That's your problem. Learn to play the goddam game.

Looking, looking, looking, oh nothing about being civil to people on forums from you about that.

Fauxnormal wrote...

If you can't handle people being 'mean', get off the forums. If you can't play a game because you suck, don't blame the game.

And your reply was......

Nothing.
So, no. I stand by what I said. There's two standards.

[LeandroBraz]

..and this, ladies and gentlemans, is the difference between someone that is really good as infiltrator:

perera74 wrote...

I haven't noticed anything remarkably different with my Infiltrators - I still top lists, still revive a bunch, still do the device missions.

Am I doing something wrong?

and someone that was only taking advantage from the OP nature of the class:

Tommy 9un wrote...

 My poor infiltrator is near useless, finally got into a couple of matches and I can't kill a damn thing. I'm doing damage but I might as well be throwing wet sponges, I swear I'm taking more damage and tactical cloak is shorter than it takes to revive someone or activate a device, I agree that the cloak should be shorter but not this short. Please bioware have another stab at this because it's ruined my favourite character, I'm gonna stick to it another two promotions but this may be the end of mp mass effect for me as I hate all other classes, tryed them all and didn't like any. 

 

Infiltrators still awesome, you just need to adapt your tatics..

[GallowsPole]

Subtle Riot wrote...

InfamousResult wrote...

GallowsPole wrote...

I don't see a whole lot of complaining of stasis sniping or shotgunning, which in my mind, is no different than using TC to take advantage of damage bonuses. I bet if the Asari vanguard got the same damage bonuses a TC inf would get, they'll be hollering about that.

No one will admit it, but all these game changes are to sate the egos of all sides. When one scores more, it needs to be nerfed.

Damage bonus on the ability was too high, while offering a ridiculous amount of versatility, and a cooldown that could absolutely ignore weight. Tactical Cloak is basically having two abilities in one- BOTH of which are more useful than a lot of powers that other classes have. It was not simply about taking advantage of the damage bonus, even though- as I said- that damage bonus was still higher than any other damage bonus.

Also, no one will admit that, because it's just not true. That's like if I accuse every single person who didn't want / doesn't like the changes of just being bad at the game, and that the only reason they don't want anything changed is because they won't be able to play Gold any more if even the slightest tweak is made.

So being able to keep a phantom from attacking you with stasis, getting a free headshot, AND getting a damage bonus for it.. isn't having multiple abilities in one? How about when you throw in that you can BE it? 

Not saying its as imba.. but come on.. There are quite a few things that fall into that sort of.. can do two things category.

Im merely saying that stasis, much like TC is a unique power to the AV and with it, the potential is there for abuse. People dont use it for strategy, they use it because its easy. Much like TC on Gold or at least it is perceived to be by many. As pointed out, the cries start pouring in when that ease of use has been knocked down a peg. Or in the eye of the beholder, it has been.

My thoughts still stand that a majority of players play for score, even though the points are shared, and thats why the big to do over nothing. If you are as good, as most people claim they are, they can run with any class on Gold with Gold viable equipment provided that they are playing with a team strategy in place. I too, let the Novaguard lie dying who decided to pull the Rambo, as Im sure alot of us who have been playing alot, do. So when an Inf player says that they wont revive them, come on now, if you have been playing alot, you werent going to revive that dude anyways.

Personally, I dont see one class being any better than the other. Each with its own uniqueness. Each with its own strentgths and weaknesses. It simply comes down to the person/people/teams behind the controller that can use them efficiently.

You really either play this game for true tactical reasons or simply to top the boards. I dont see any middle ground and why all the anger all around. Its the same no matter what game you play.

[InfamousResult]

Cundu_Ertur wrote...

And your reply was......

Nothing.
So, no. I stand by what I said. There's two standards.

Wait.

You're ragging on me because I didn't reply to those people and get onto them for insulting the OP? You're ragging on me because I don't go through a whole thread and call every single person out? Really? I didn't even call you out- I quoted somebody who quoted somebody who quoted you, because they were acting like your insult was okay.

If you want me to say those other peoples' insults were bad and should stop, too, then okay. I'm saying that now.

"Don't insult the OP. Don't insult anybody. You shouldn't use insults to bolster any discussion, period."

There. Every base is covered. We're good now.

Modifié par InfamousResult, 28 juin 2012 - 04:13 .

[rmccowen]

Mgamerz wrote...

Yeah, that.

Tommy 9un wrote...



 My poor infiltrator is near useless,
finally got into a couple of matches and I can't kill a damn thing.

Funny. My Infiltrators work fine, even on Gold, with no
changes at all.

Cundu_Ertur wrote...

Run'n'gunners rocking shotguns who don't do objectives or revive, -10% X to bonus.

And lost about 4 seconds of cloak duration, so they're going to have to adapt their approach tactics or get used to watching their characters lie on the ground.

Snipers who don't do objectives or revive, -41% X to bonus.

Those poor kids now only get a +125% damage bonus from their Cloak, with a corresponding +80% bonus to all their powers.

Snipers who used to spec to damage but now re-spec duration to do objectives or revive, -91% X to bonus. The bonus is effectively halved.

Yes, do you now have to choose between having the best damage bonus in the game, and having only the second-best damage bonus in the game (that is, +40% to both powers and weapon damage, which is something no one else gets) but retaining a more useful cloak duration.

Oh, and all Infiltrators still get to turn invisible and cap all their cooldowns at 3-4 seconds, regardless of weight. So there's that.

I spent 24 hours trying to be understanding and empathetic, and didn't even do that well. Now I'm just bored with this scene, repeated over and over again: someone plays mostly Infiltrators, and is REALLY UPSET!!! that he or she is going to have to slightly alter build and/or playstyle to remain competitive.

If Tactical Cloak had been initially introduced to multiplayer as it is now, it would have been hailed as one of the best powers in the game and used accordingly. Infiltrators--of which I'm one--had a long run as the unparalleled kings of almost every tactical and strategic situation, and now they're merely among the best classes in the game. Somehow I can't bring myself to accept that as tragedy.

Modifié par rmccowen, 28 juin 2012 - 04:17 .